T 180 Driving Abroad & Noisy Gears/clutch

[Miked]

Does anyone know if this model comes with any sort of mechanical headlamp adjustment or do I have to fit a set of stickers?

On another point, my car seems noisy in low gears, having a audible whine particularly when slowing up. There seems to be noise from both the gearbox and the clutch.

As this is my first diesel car I am aware of the higher engine noise levels in lower gears but these other sounds seem too pronounced to me for a top of the range car. I cannot believe that there is as much nosie in the Lexus that has the same engine.

Just after comments before I take it to the garage to see!

[Sussex_Paul]

Hi,

To my knowledge there is no mechanical headlight adjustment - I've fitted a set of stickers to mine when abroad (thats if I've known I've had to drive at night or during the winter - otherwise I've not been bothered )

As far as engine/gearbox noise etc, I think it is a tad more pronounced in the Rav than perhaps it is in the Avensis T180 or the Lexus IS220 - probably due to being a 4 wheel drive with all of the extra driveshafts/linkages etc. But I wouldn't say for a minute that it's in anyway intrusive, especially after the engine/gearbox has warmed up.

Infact, one of the reasons I chose the T180 was because it IS so refined for a 4x4!!!

Is yours brand new?? This may have some bearing on the noises???

[Miked]

Hi,

To my knowledge there is no mechanical headlight adjustment - I've fitted a set of stickers to mine when abroad (thats if I've known I've had to drive at night or during the winter - otherwise I've not been bothered )

As far as engine/gearbox noise etc, I think it is a tad more pronounced in the Rav than perhaps it is in the Avensis T180 or the Lexus IS220 - probably due to being a 4 wheel drive with all of the extra driveshafts/linkages etc. But I wouldn't say for a minute that it's in anyway intrusive, especially after the engine/gearbox has warmed up.

Infact, one of the reasons I chose the T180 was because it IS so refined for a 4x4!!!

Is yours brand new?? This may have some bearing on the noises???

Hi,

To my knowledge there is no mechanical headlight adjustment - I've fitted a set of stickers to mine when abroad (thats if I've known I've had to drive at night or during the winter - otherwise I've not been bothered )

As far as engine/gearbox noise etc, I think it is a tad more pronounced in the Rav than perhaps it is in the Avensis T180 or the Lexus IS220 - probably due to being a 4 wheel drive with all of the extra driveshafts/linkages etc. But I wouldn't say for a minute that it's in anyway intrusive, especially after the engine/gearbox has warmed up.

Infact, one of the reasons I chose the T180 was because it IS so refined for a 4x4!!!

Is yours brand new?? This may have some bearing on the noises???

Thanks Paul

Mine has only done about 1000 miles so perhaps I have to be patient and run it in a bit!

[OldSkoO1]

This whine could be from the tubro in the T180 engines. My knowledge of diesel engines is limited but i know the pressure injection in a common rail engine is higher and the combination of these components could be causing the extra whine.

I noticed it a lot in the T180 Auris, sounds strange like it was similar to a supercharger type whine and on some occasions i thought a police car was coming. Odd but nice to know the mechanicals are working and waiting to unless a stupendous amount of torque and power - i can live with the compromise. :)

[anchorman]

The gearbox is a twincountershaft design. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th are on one countershaft and 5th, 6th and reverse are on the other. 1st, 2nd and 3rd have triple synchros, 4th has double the rest have single (including reverse).

To incorperate twin countershafts they either have to be timed to ensure alignment of the shafts or they have to have slightly lower tolerances which inevitably ctreates some backlash. In other words is is a complicated box and there is a lot of scope for noise.

You can therefor expect some noises form your gearbox but in my opinion Toyota haven't quite got this box right and some are better than others. Some are noisey (mine sounds like I threw the pots into the washing machine instead of the dish washer by mistake), some have iffy synchros that result in very unclean changes particularly in first and second and some are OK. My mate has an XT3 and his box is superb so to some extent it is the luck of the draw.

There is an instant fix for it if it starts to get on your nerves. You simple throw an Eagles CD into that slot on the dash

Good luck

[chatman]

There is an instant fix for it if it starts to get on your nerves. You simple throw an Eagles CD into that slot on the dash

Good luck

I also find a good ELO cd does the trick as well...a certain song about a hotel.....on repeat seems to cure all sorts,.....

[anchorman]

There is an instant fix for it if it starts to get on your nerves. You simple throw an Eagles CD into that slot on the dash

Good luck

I also find a good ELO cd does the trick as well...a certain song about a hotel.....on repeat seems to cure all sorts,.....

Yes that is correct. Mr Blue Sky and Horace Wimp are on the list of official Toyota service fixes :D

The stuff they play these days is absolutely forbidden unless you have a LR for which it is absolutely necessary ;)

[dave.m]

There is an instant fix for it if it starts to get on your nerves. You simple throw an Eagles CD into that slot on the dash

Good luck

I also find a good ELO cd does the trick as well...a certain song about a hotel.....on repeat seems to cure all sorts,.....

Yes that is correct. Mr Blue Sky and Horace Wimp are on the list of official Toyota service fixes :D

The stuff they play these days is absolutely forbidden unless you have a LR for which it is absolutely necessary ;)

You two need sat down in a room with a big hi fi and made to listen to some Pink Floyd, preferably the CD called Pulse which is all there old stuff done live.

Cheers,

Dave.

[chatman]

The stuff they play these days is absolutely forbidden unless you have a LR for which it is absolutely necessary ;)

This is the song CD given to all LR owners...Clicky

You two need sat down in a room with a big hi fi and made to listen to some Pink Floyd, preferably the CD called Pulse which is all there old stuff done live.

Cheers,

Dave.

I was listening to the Dark Side Of The Moon the other day.....Windows down and sunglasses on B) B)

I've now got my UB40 Cd in and well......Volume up and happy as Larry....

[anchorman]

There is an instant fix for it if it starts to get on your nerves. You simple throw an Eagles CD into that slot on the dash

Good luck

I also find a good ELO cd does the trick as well...a certain song about a hotel.....on repeat seems to cure all sorts,.....

Yes that is correct. Mr Blue Sky and Horace Wimp are on the list of official Toyota service fixes :D

The stuff they play these days is absolutely forbidden unless you have a LR for which it is absolutely necessary ;)

You two need sat down in a room with a big hi fi and made to listen to some Pink Floyd, preferably the CD called Pulse which is all there old stuff done live.

Cheers,

Dave.

Ooh that's a bit too far towards head banging for me Dave. I'll be getting that Toyota emblem on the steering wheel impressed into my forehead.

[Miked]

There is an instant fix for it if it starts to get on your nerves. You simple throw an Eagles CD into that slot on the dash

Good luck

I also find a good ELO cd does the trick as well...a certain song about a hotel.....on repeat seems to cure all sorts,.....

Yes that is correct. Mr Blue Sky and Horace Wimp are on the list of official Toyota service fixes :D

The stuff they play these days is absolutely forbidden unless you have a LR for which it is absolutely necessary ;)

You two need sat down in a room with a big hi fi and made to listen to some Pink Floyd, preferably the CD called Pulse which is all there old stuff done live.

Cheers,

Dave.

Ooh that's a bit too far towards head banging for me Dave. I'll be getting that Toyota emblem on the steering wheel impressed into my forehead.

Now that all you music fans have had your say it's time to get back to the original point!

I have now had my car looked at by my local Toyota dealer who confirmed that it was noisy and that Toyota are " investigating " as this happens on other models. My car was declared safe and usuable.

All well an good if you are prepared to accept paying the best part of £27,000 for a noisy car! I am not!

I asume that I am suposed to just wait until Toyota decide what to do about the problem and then (when?) have it rectified.

As far as I am concerned I have been sold a duff motor and will be looking for an replacement or a good deal of compensation whilst I have to drive this noisy car.

I am of to Spain in it shortly and it had better not fail me!!!

I will keep you all updated.

Miked

[anchorman]

Mike

I think you have a similar situation as I had. I wasn't prepared to let them pull mine apart because of the principle. I paid a hell of a lot of money and wanted a good one out of the wrapper not one that some semi skilled youth had not put back together as it was built.

They will see about fixing it but if you are not happy you have to go back and officially reject it.

You are in strong position now they have agreed it is noisey but you have stand your ground. Get a new one and let them flog that one on the forecourt.

The rest is up to you.

Regards.

[NMaria]

With the greatest respect, anchorman, I don't think it should go on the forecourt - some other poor devil will end up buying the problem. Wouldn't you agree that in fact Toyota should take it back and investigate what's wrong with it and what is going wrong on their production line?

My gearlever vibrates more than I would like in fourth and I had not given it much thought but having read other people's problems with gearboxes I may just take it to the dealer to get their opinion.

[dave.m]

Mike, apologies for the diversion, my 2'ps worth, if you are not happy with your Rav and Toyota have admitted there is a problem then you should reject it. You have to document everything, phone calls, letters etc from Toyota. Not sure about the actual wording in the sale of goods act but I believe you have to let them have a go at fixing it (Anchorman could probably tell you) but who in there right mind would expect to pay 27K for a car to have a major stripdown when brand new ? So stick to your guns and dont accept it.

There have been other threads on here of new T180's with problems, Peter from Prestons being the most recent allbeit his problem was different from yours. He was unfortunate because his was a lease car from Toyota Uk I believe so found it virtually impossible to do anything but let them fix it. They did get it right in the end but given the choice Peter would have rejected it.

Good luck,

Dave.

[anchorman]

I make no apologies for having a bit of a lark on these forums. It is not to say that I don't consider this problem to be serious but if you don't try to keep light hearted about things in general then the forum becomes a bit on the heavy side. I have voiced my opinion many times before with these gearboxes. There are too many complaints about them and they let the new RAV down. The vehicle's biggest market is the USA where they all come with an auto box and you can bet that these vehicles had most of the development work. This transmission albiet quite revolutionary (I have only ever seen twin countershaft boxes in heavy trucks before) seems a bit rushed and certainly not consistent with fine Toyota engineering that we are used to. I think it was produced only to fit a niche European demand for a modern diesel engine.

In law you a test of reasonableness will apply. You are normally expected to give one chance to correct a fault but in this case you could argue that it was not of merchantable quality. In any case Toyota would probably prefer not to lock horns with you and risk a publicity issue but I say again, you have to officially reject the car. They will then decide whether to obtain another car (that they cannot guarantee to be any different) or to refund your money which will be rather distasteful to the dealer.

However, you have to remember that Mr T and his corporate lawyers are bigger than you are and any gestures will come from the dealer and not from him. You might get the dealer to do something nice like fill up your tank with diesel but don't expect too much in the form of compensation because you will be disappointed.

NMaria; You are right that would be unethical to put the car on the forecourt for some other poor unsuspecting consumer. I promise that doing that was the last thing in my mind. My suggestion was made on the grounds that they would first repair it - back to an as new very acceptable condition. I find that solution much more acceptable than our friend who paid all the money for a new car having to accept such major work being done on it. A person that has gone to buy a second hand car from the forecourt will first test drive it and given that there are no strange noises go ahead and buy it. It is up to Toyota to do the right thing. My first car that I rejected had very bad synchros and it was impossible to change through first and second without it crunching. They afterwards sold the car without doing anything to it and that in my opinion was unethical. You can take your car to the dealer and he will tell you not to worry about it but that isn't the point, it shouldn't make any noise. You might expect it from a cheaper brand for which you paid £10000 less but not from a RAV.

In becoming the worlds number one largest manufacturer of vehicles earlier this year (bigger than Ford and bigger than General Motors) The MD of Toyota personally appologised to his customers for the unacceptable number of warranty issues with their cars.

I sincerely hope that they do address this issue. At the moment I cannot think of another vehicle I would like more than a T180 but until I am a considerably more confident about the transmission I will keep the devil I know (along with its noisey gearbox but acceptable syncros). It is sad that any of us have to accept a compromise. Don't forget that there are over 30000 current model RAV4 owners with an airbag deficiency that Toyota will not rectify - something else that sticks in my craw.

If you don't laugh you will cry and I have to admit that it has so far been utterly reliable.

Regards

[dave.m]

Anchorman,

Well said, its good that Mike can get advice from someone who has allready rejected a Rav and been successfull.

Now go and take that Eagles CD out and put something decent on ;)

Cheers,

Dave.

[Miked]

Just to update the current position, I wrote to Toyota and set out my complaint! I gave them a set period in which to sort out the problems otherwise I would reject the car. I was contacted by my local Toyota dealer a 3 weeks ago, they having been contacted by Toyota. My car is booked in tomorrow to have a new part fitted that Toyota "hope" will sort out the excessive clutch rattle. This remains to be seen!

This still leaves the excessive gearbox whine, of which no mention has been made!

I should point out that I have just returned from a 2000 mile round trip to the Costa Brava and have to say what a great Motorway cruiser the car is. 6th Gear in Cruise Contol and you can forget about changing gears no matter what the incline. That said, as soon as I arrived at my destination and started driving around town in second/third gears, it was like stirring a metal rod in a bag of nuts and bolts.

On the point of fuel consumption I got 32 MPG fully loaded at speeds of around 85/90 mph (hope French traffic cops are not reading this!)

Sad to say that since my return to the UK a knocking sound now eminates from the steering wheel when turning at low speeds. This is now the 4th problem in 3 months!

I am not at all hopeful that tomorrow's work will resolve the problems and will almost certainly then reject the car. A sad ending to a hither to unblemished association with Toyota cars ( 2 previous Rav models and an MR2).

[jock1]

I make no apologies for having a bit of a lark on these forums. It is not to say that I don't consider this problem to be serious but if you don't try to keep light hearted about things in general then the forum becomes a bit on the heavy side. I have voiced my opinion many times before with these gearboxes. There are too many complaints about them and they let the new RAV down. The vehicle's biggest market is the USA where they all come with an auto box and you can bet that these vehicles had most of the development work. This transmission albiet quite revolutionary (I have only ever seen twin countershaft boxes in heavy trucks before) seems a bit rushed and certainly not consistent with fine Toyota engineering that we are used to. I think it was produced only to fit a niche European demand for a modern diesel engine.

In law you a test of reasonableness will apply. You are normally expected to give one chance to correct a fault but in this case you could argue that it was not of merchantable quality. In any case Toyota would probably prefer not to lock horns with you and risk a publicity issue but I say again, you have to officially reject the car. They will then decide whether to obtain another car (that they cannot guarantee to be any different) or to refund your money which will be rather distasteful to the dealer.

However, you have to remember that Mr T and his corporate lawyers are bigger than you are and any gestures will come from the dealer and not from him. You might get the dealer to do something nice like fill up your tank with diesel but don't expect too much in the form of compensation because you will be disappointed.

NMaria; You are right that would be unethical to put the car on the forecourt for some other poor unsuspecting consumer. I promise that doing that was the last thing in my mind. My suggestion was made on the grounds that they would first repair it - back to an as new very acceptable condition. I find that solution much more acceptable than our friend who paid all the money for a new car having to accept such major work being done on it. A person that has gone to buy a second hand car from the forecourt will first test drive it and given that there are no strange noises go ahead and buy it. It is up to Toyota to do the right thing. My first car that I rejected had very bad synchros and it was impossible to change through first and second without it crunching. They afterwards sold the car without doing anything to it and that in my opinion was unethical. You can take your car to the dealer and he will tell you not to worry about it but that isn't the point, it shouldn't make any noise. You might expect it from a cheaper brand for which you paid £10000 less but not from a RAV.

In becoming the worlds number one largest manufacturer of vehicles earlier this year (bigger than Ford and bigger than General Motors) The MD of Toyota personally appologised to his customers for the unacceptable number of warranty issues with their cars.

I sincerely hope that they do address this issue. At the moment I cannot think of another vehicle I would like more than a T180 but until I am a considerably more confident about the transmission I will keep the devil I know (along with its noisey gearbox but acceptable syncros). It is sad that any of us have to accept a compromise. Don't forget that there are over 30000 current model RAV4 owners with an airbag deficiency that Toyota will not rectify - something else that sticks in my craw.

If you don't laugh you will cry and I have to admit that it has so far been utterly reliable.

Regards

Anchorman.please keep up with the jokes and levity. life's too short and your value to this site is priceless.

[Manxrav]

I make no apologies for having a bit of a lark on these forums. It is not to say that I don't consider this problem to be serious but if you don't try to keep light hearted about things in general then the forum becomes a bit on the heavy side. I have voiced my opinion many times before with these gearboxes. There are too many complaints about them and they let the new RAV down. The vehicle's biggest market is the USA where they all come with an auto box and you can bet that these vehicles had most of the development work. This transmission albiet quite revolutionary (I have only ever seen twin countershaft boxes in heavy trucks before) seems a bit rushed and certainly not consistent with fine Toyota engineering that we are used to. I think it was produced only to fit a niche European demand for a modern diesel engine.

In law you a test of reasonableness will apply. You are normally expected to give one chance to correct a fault but in this case you could argue that it was not of merchantable quality. In any case Toyota would probably prefer not to lock horns with you and risk a publicity issue but I say again, you have to officially reject the car. They will then decide whether to obtain another car (that they cannot guarantee to be any different) or to refund your money which will be rather distasteful to the dealer.

However, you have to remember that Mr T and his corporate lawyers are bigger than you are and any gestures will come from the dealer and not from him. You might get the dealer to do something nice like fill up your tank with diesel but don't expect too much in the form of compensation because you will be disappointed.

NMaria; You are right that would be unethical to put the car on the forecourt for some other poor unsuspecting consumer. I promise that doing that was the last thing in my mind. My suggestion was made on the grounds that they would first repair it - back to an as new very acceptable condition. I find that solution much more acceptable than our friend who paid all the money for a new car having to accept such major work being done on it. A person that has gone to buy a second hand car from the forecourt will first test drive it and given that there are no strange noises go ahead and buy it. It is up to Toyota to do the right thing. My first car that I rejected had very bad synchros and it was impossible to change through first and second without it crunching. They afterwards sold the car without doing anything to it and that in my opinion was unethical. You can take your car to the dealer and he will tell you not to worry about it but that isn't the point, it shouldn't make any noise. You might expect it from a cheaper brand for which you paid £10000 less but not from a RAV.

In becoming the worlds number one largest manufacturer of vehicles earlier this year (bigger than Ford and bigger than General Motors) The MD of Toyota personally appologised to his customers for the unacceptable number of warranty issues with their cars.

I sincerely hope that they do address this issue. At the moment I cannot think of another vehicle I would like more than a T180 but until I am a considerably more confident about the transmission I will keep the devil I know (along with its noisey gearbox but acceptable syncros). It is sad that any of us have to accept a compromise. Don't forget that there are over 30000 current model RAV4 owners with an airbag deficiency that Toyota will not rectify - something else that sticks in my craw.

If you don't laugh you will cry and I have to admit that it has so far been utterly reliable.

Regards

Anchorman.please keep up with the jokes and levity. life's too short and your value to this site is priceless.

Got to agree with you jock1, the mans (Anchorman) priceless. Must admit TOC Rav section really is a crackin site dare I say it,s as good as R4W.( hope my fellow moderators on R4W don,t see this or I,ll be lynched)

Clare

[Sussex_Paul]

Got to agree with you jock1, the mans (Anchorman) priceless. Must admit TOC Rav section really is a crackin site dare I say it,s as good as R4W.( hope my fellow moderators on R4W don,t see this or I,ll be lynched)

Clare

Totally agree on that one Clare - It's easily as informative (if not more so), but without the slant!!!! :D

[dave.m]

Got to agree with you jock1, the mans (Anchorman) priceless. Must admit TOC Rav section really is a crackin site dare I say it,s as good as R4W.( hope my fellow moderators on R4W don,t see this or I,ll be lynched)

Clare

Totally agree on that one Clare - It's easily as informative (if not more so), but without the slant!!!! :D

Anchorman ? the guys a blooming living legend

R4W ? not really a fan, too american for me

Dave.

[chatman]

Got to agree with you jock1, the mans (Anchorman) priceless. Must admit TOC Rav section really is a crackin site dare I say it,s as good as R4W.( hope my fellow moderators on R4W don,t see this or I,ll be lynched)

Clare

Totally agree on that one Clare - It's easily as informative (if not more so), but without the slant!!!! :D

TOC is #1

R4W is good for finding out all those nigly issues and Toyota TSB's but as Paul says too much some times, nice too see more Europeans using the site now though...and there dead jelous of our D4D's and the T180's and them moaning about the price of GAS and MPG was priceless reading ;) ;)

[anchorman]

Just to update the current position, I wrote to Toyota and set out my complaint! I gave them a set period in which to sort out the problems otherwise I would reject the car. I was contacted by my local Toyota dealer a 3 weeks ago, they having been contacted by Toyota. My car is booked in tomorrow to have a new part fitted that Toyota "hope" will sort out the excessive clutch rattle. This remains to be seen!

This still leaves the excessive gearbox whine, of which no mention has been made!

I should point out that I have just returned from a 2000 mile round trip to the Costa Brava and have to say what a great Motorway cruiser the car is. 6th Gear in Cruise Contol and you can forget about changing gears no matter what the incline. That said, as soon as I arrived at my destination and started driving around town in second/third gears, it was like stirring a metal rod in a bag of nuts and bolts.

On the point of fuel consumption I got 32 MPG fully loaded at speeds of around 85/90 mph (hope French traffic cops are not reading this!)

Sad to say that since my return to the UK a knocking sound now eminates from the steering wheel when turning at low speeds. This is now the 4th problem in 3 months!

I am not at all hopeful that tomorrow's work will resolve the problems and will almost certainly then reject the car. A sad ending to a hither to unblemished association with Toyota cars ( 2 previous Rav models and an MR2).

All

Thanks for the kind words. I think we have a nice balance of debating these problems and having a lark at the same time. It is creating an atmosphere where we all get on together and I am quite pleased to be a part of it. I think Clare has a very valid point that R4W can get a little bit fraught at times and people start picking on each other. It's just not cricket!!!

Miked

I am also a little bit sceptical about the proposed work. With regard to the whine, if I drop the window on mine and listen, it sounds quite different on the outside to the inside. Of course yours might be different to mine but the whines that come from the outside are quite normal - turbocharger, high output alternator etc. The grinding of low gears is definately a trait but seems to vary quite a lot. I have what I call a middle of the road box. Most of the time it is OK but every now and again it makes you look a right fool when pedestrians look to see who has got it woefully wrong and is playing tunes. It also has a background "ratcheting" noise in the first four gears which is an irritation but it doesn't seem to suffer for it. The last one I had before rejecting it was a reel bag of pots as you say and nobody will ever convince me that that should have been sold on without remedial work (but it was). I have a friend that has a real peach of a box in his. It changes like a knife through butter - a real delight.

So this is how I conclude that the boxes vary considerably and you have to decide whether or not it is acceptable.

The problem is that they are going to play with the clutch on your car. Once again an owners reports have been misinterpreted and somebody with no analytical experience has been guided by somebody at Toyota to change the wrong thing. There was a thread recently where a clutch thrust bearing had been changed for a gearbox issue to no avail. Where does that leave you? The gearbox is quite complicated. Normally gears are arranged along a shaft successively but because there are six gears to accommodate, they have created a kind of double gearbox with 1st to 4th on one shaft and 5th and 6th (and for convenience reverse) are on the other. These lay side by side and effectively reduce the length of the box so they can fit it transversly with the engine. Without going too deep into design, it is necessary to prevent these gears from binding up on each other and there are two ways to do it. The first calls for extremely tight tolerances and the gears are actually "timed together" perfectly. The second and most cost effective way is to slacken the tolerances so as to slightly disengage the gears from each other - a loose fit if you will.

We have the latter. I know this to be true because I have studied the gearbox overhaul procedure in some depth. There is no requirement to time the shafts. The problem is that for a syncromesh to be very effective it relies on tight tolerances and gears that are slightly out of mesh are noisy due to backlash. It makes for the kind of variation in boxes described earlier.

I truly hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction and I would love to be wrong but I think you won't get an improvement until the box has been changed and even then you'll have to hope you get a good one.

What causes me another concern is the report about the steering noise. This is a big issue on R4W but was previously unreported here. They describe it as a popping noise form the steering which can become quite intrusive. After lots of deliberation Toyota seems to be homing in on the lower steering shaft but as far as I know none have been cured to date.

http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5820

I had hoped that it was something perculiar to LHD models but maybe this issue is about to bite us in the bum.

Anybody else got it?

Regards

[Manxrav]

Just to update the current position, I wrote to Toyota and set out my complaint! I gave them a set period in which to sort out the problems otherwise I would reject the car. I was contacted by my local Toyota dealer a 3 weeks ago, they having been contacted by Toyota. My car is booked in tomorrow to have a new part fitted that Toyota "hope" will sort out the excessive clutch rattle. This remains to be seen!

This still leaves the excessive gearbox whine, of which no mention has been made!

I should point out that I have just returned from a 2000 mile round trip to the Costa Brava and have to say what a great Motorway cruiser the car is. 6th Gear in Cruise Contol and you can forget about changing gears no matter what the incline. That said, as soon as I arrived at my destination and started driving around town in second/third gears, it was like stirring a metal rod in a bag of nuts and bolts.

On the point of fuel consumption I got 32 MPG fully loaded at speeds of around 85/90 mph (hope French traffic cops are not reading this!)

Sad to say that since my return to the UK a knocking sound now eminates from the steering wheel when turning at low speeds. This is now the 4th problem in 3 months!

I am not at all hopeful that tomorrow's work will resolve the problems and will almost certainly then reject the car. A sad ending to a hither to unblemished association with Toyota cars ( 2 previous Rav models and an MR2).

All

Thanks for the kind words. I think we have a nice balance of debating these problems and having a lark at the same time. It is creating an atmosphere where we all get on together and I am quite pleased to be a part of it. I think Clare has a very valid point that R4W can get a little bit fraught at times and people start picking on each other. It's just not cricket!!!

Miked

I am also a little bit sceptical about the proposed work. With regard to the whine, if I drop the window on mine and listen, it sounds quite different on the outside to the inside. Of course yours might be different to mine but the whines that come from the outside are quite normal - turbocharger, high output alternator etc. The grinding of low gears is definately a trait but seems to vary quite a lot. I have what I call a middle of the road box. Most of the time it is OK but every now and again it makes you look a right fool when pedestrians look to see who has got it woefully wrong and is playing tunes. It also has a background "ratcheting" noise in the first four gears which is an irritation but it doesn't seem to suffer for it. The last one I had before rejecting it was a reel bag of pots as you say and nobody will ever convince me that that should have been sold on without remedial work (but it was). I have a friend that has a real peach of a box in his. It changes like a knife through butter - a real delight.

So this is how I conclude that the boxes vary considerably and you have to decide whether or not it is acceptable.

The problem is that they are going to play with the clutch on your car. Once again an owners reports have been misinterpreted and somebody with no analytical experience has been guided by somebody at Toyota to change the wrong thing. There was a thread recently where a clutch thrust bearing had been changed for a gearbox issue to no avail. Where does that leave you? The gearbox is quite complicated. Normally gears are arranged along a shaft successively but because there are six gears to accommodate, they have created a kind of double gearbox with 1st to 4th on one shaft and 5th and 6th (and for convenience reverse) are on the other. These lay side by side and effectively reduce the length of the box so they can fit it transversly with the engine. Without going too deep into design, it is necessary to prevent these gears from binding up on each other and there are two ways to do it. The first calls for extremely tight tolerances and the gears are actually "timed together" perfectly. The second and most cost effective way is to slacken the tolerances so as to slightly disengage the gears from each other - a loose fit if you will.

We have the latter. I know this to be true because I have studied the gearbox overhaul procedure in some depth. There is no requirement to time the shafts. The problem is that for a syncromesh to be very effective it relies on tight tolerances and gears that are slightly out of mesh are noisy due to backlash. It makes for the kind of variation in boxes described earlier.

I truly hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction and I would love to be wrong but I think you won't get an improvement until the box has been changed and even then you'll have to hope you get a good one.

What causes me another concern is the report about the steering noise. This is a big issue on R4W but was previously unreported here. They describe it as a popping noise form the steering which can become quite intrusive. After lots of deliberation Toyota seems to be homing in on the lower steering shaft but as far as I know none have been cured to date.

http://rav4world.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5820

I had hoped that it was something perculiar to LHD models but maybe this issue is about to bite us in the bum.

Anybody else got it?

Regards

Anchorman, a very well written article that. I have followed the thread on R4W and I really believe that it is a fault that is parculiar to LHD Rav,s. You have to remember that the Japenese also drive on the same side of the road as we do in the UK, and LHD is allien to them as well.

Clare

[anchorman]

Anchorman, a very well written article that. I have followed the thread on R4W and I really believe that it is a fault that is parculiar to LHD Rav,s. You have to remember that the Japenese also drive on the same side of the road as we do in the UK, and LHD is allien to them as well.

Clare

Hi Clare

My concern is that Mike is reporting an astonishingly similar complaint. Toyota have a policy of using common parts and I can't see how the steering shaft should differ that much - it will just link up with a LHD rack. The shaft is quite sophisticated as it has a strain gauge incorporated to measure resistance for the electric motor to add assistance. I can't see them tooling up for two versions if they can avoid it.

We'll have to monitor this one.

Mike.

Does it sound similar?

Regards