Why Does My Mates Civic Beat My Rolla?!?!

[chani]

Hi everyone i need some ideas or suggestions..

I have a 1.4 Rolla E12 thats running at least 104/105 bhp because of the induction and full exhaust system, but my mate has a honda civic 1.4 and is standard at 89bhp and is also about 3 years old so may have lost a bit of power.

Yet at a race from 0-60, even rolling start at 20/30mph he can still get an easy car length on me. Im not driving stupidly and doing smooth gear changes and revving to around 6,000rpm just before red-lining.

I though it may have been the weight, but the rolla is merely 4kgs heavier and should not make a difference due to my advantage of bhp!

Does anyone have any clue or any ideas, because its boggling my head!

cheers to all!

[Ade_]

honda's can free up bhp with age.

[kintung01]

Hi everyone i need some ideas or suggestions..

I have a 1.4 Rolla E12 thats running at least 104/105 bhp because of the induction and full exhaust system, but my mate has a honda civic 1.4 and is standard at 89bhp and is also about 3 years old so may have lost a bit of power.

Yet at a race from 0-60, even rolling start at 20/30mph he can still get an easy car length on me. Im not driving stupidly and doing smooth gear changes and revving to around 6,000rpm just before red-lining.

I though it may have been the weight, but the rolla is merely 4kgs heavier and should not make a difference due to my advantage of bhp!

Does anyone have any clue or any ideas, because its boggling my head!

cheers to all!

hey wt induction kit and exhaust system u use??, wt brand is it??

i got a 1.6 E12 vvti (non modified) and i have raced a Ek civic 1.5 vtec earlier (modified a performance exhaust system), but both car got the same acceleration.

[GRD008]

if the civic is running on smaller wheels than you are, it may also be the case for a bit of extra acceleration.....

[Jock Fran]

What makes you think your car has more power than standard?

Induction kits can actually make you lose power due to heatsoak on some cars.

Your mate's car is probably marginally quicker to 60 as standard (Parker's reckons 11.2 for a 1.4 E 3dr vs 11.6 for a 1.4 Corolla) so it doesn't surprise me that it's still quicker with your mods really.

Gearing might come into it aswell!

[DaveSR]

Not sure what version you've got but the highest value for the 1.4 is 97BHP ...... and adding an induction kit will do naff all (1-2BHP if that) and an exhaust system will probably do the same.

Again if you have changed the wheels to a bigger size this will also reduce your speed as well as any ICE system you have in your boot as it all adds up as extra weight.

Vtec and VVt-i are also diffent and depending on your driving style will help or hinder.

Best way would be to go to santa pod and make sure that everything is fair as can be

[System~G]

What makes you think your car has more power than standard?

Induction kits can actually make you lose power due to heatsoak on some cars.

Ding... Nail/head etc...

More often than none people will loos power putting on after market performance bits - especially if they are not manufacturer approved. I doubt very much TTE or TRD would have supplied the parts you have fitted.

Whilst it's common knowlege manufacturers will "detune" road cars for emission, reliabilty & safety reasons and often opening up the induction system (both inlet & outlet) can free up a few ponies, this is not always the case. There are many ways manufacturers can restrict performance.

In my personal experience with small engined cars, the only thing you get by adding an induction kit and larger bore exhaust is more noise and less power. People often forget that putting large bore/through-flow exhaust systems on an N/A will see you loose a lot of power due to lack of back pressure.

[Moffmo]

Your engine wont have loosened up like the civic has.

Civic probably has a higher redline.

[Ade_]

What makes you think your car has more power than standard?

Induction kits can actually make you lose power due to heatsoak on some cars.

People often forget that putting large bore/through-flow exhaust systems on an N/A will see you loose a lot of power due to lack of back pressure.

What a load of bull**** for example going from a 2.25" bore stock exhaust to a 2.5" aftermarket exhaust (spoon, tanabe, mugen etc) on a integra type r you will almost definately see power gains ......... FACT! its been proven!

[Smølfen]

What makes you think your car has more power than standard?

Induction kits can actually make you lose power due to heatsoak on some cars.

People often forget that putting large bore/through-flow exhaust systems on an N/A will see you loose a lot of power due to lack of back pressure.

What a load of bull**** for example going from a 2.25" bore stock exhaust to a 2.5" aftermarket exhaust (spoon, tanabe, mugen etc) on a integra type r you will almost definately see power gains ......... FACT! its been proven!

There's still a limit ;)

E.g. the Blacktop engine won't just settle with whichever exhaust you give it, sure, it'll start and run just fine, but it will loose some power if there's no back pressure.

FACT! its been proven! - by a dane from the danish Toyota Club Denmark...

Why you're loosing to a Civic...

Two cars accelerating from 0-60mp/h in the same amount of time - once they hit 60mp/h, will they have driven the same length?

No!

Both cars drive from 0-60 in 10secs

Car1 takes 9 seconds to hit 40mp/h then 1 second to hit 60mp/h - it's running sooo slow then boosting like ****

Car2 takes 2 seconds to hit 40mp/h then the last 8 seconds to hit 60mp/h

I think it's the physic rules (is that the name?) that makes your friends car win ;)

[System~G]

What makes you think your car has more power than standard?

Induction kits can actually make you lose power due to heatsoak on some cars.

People often forget that putting large bore/through-flow exhaust systems on an N/A will see you loose a lot of power due to lack of back pressure.

What a load of bull**** for example going from a 2.25" bore stock exhaust to a 2.5" aftermarket exhaust (spoon, tanabe, mugen etc) on a integra type r you will almost definately see power gains ......... FACT! its been proven!

A typeR is not exactly what I would refer to a small or low powered engine, would you?

An N/A needs backpressure period. Take a 1200 - 1600cc Corsa, Civic, Corolla (whatever you want) and you get the induction dynamics wrong, you will loose power end of. A 1/4" increase in diameter is eff-all really on a 2000c performance, high revving engine isn't it? Although on a 1200cc, it will make a massive amount of difference and not in a good way...

You are not going to chuck on a £50 backbox the size of a tomato can onto your TypeR are you? If you do, you will loose power too ;)

You mention Spoon, Tanabe, Mugen etc... I mentioned TTE & TRD. Horses for courses

[Ade_]

I was actually refering to the dc2 type r which is 1800cc and in my option a small engine!

I've seen 1.5 civic (ek3) benefit from a larger bore exhausts for example induction, 4-2-1 mani, decat and custom cat back go from 110bhp to 135bhp which for a 1.5 n/a is a very good gain! considering the stock bore is like 2" IIRC very small anyway because its tuned for econemy.

As for £50 exhausts i've never bought one so wouldnt know, but looks like you might have considering you've got £100 eBay seats pictured in you signature!

[System~G]

I was actually refering to the dc2 type r which is 1800cc and in my option a small engine!

I've seen 1.5 civic (ek3) benefit from a larger bore exhausts for example induction, 4-2-1 mani, decat and custom cat back go from 110bhp to 135bhp which for a 1.5 n/a is a very good gain! considering the stock bore is like 2" IIRC very small anyway before its tuned for econemy.

As for £50 exhausts i've never bought one so wouldnt know, but looks like you might have considering you've got £100 ebay seats pictured in you signature!

Ade, I really wish you hadn't made things personal. Consider this your 1st and only warning. One more you're out. Please consult our forum terms and conditions.

I can also asure you my seats are not eBay specials. Looks can be very deceiving. If you took the time to see what my goals are with my car, you might have some small inclination of what I'm/my car is all about.

[cfc1]

Lets look at this thread...

What makes you think your car has more power than standard?

Induction kits can actually make you lose power due to heatsoak on some cars.

Your mate's car is probably marginally quicker to 60 as standard (Parker's reckons 11.2 for a 1.4 E 3dr vs 11.6 for a 1.4 Corolla) so it doesn't surprise me that it's still quicker with your mods really.

Gearing might come into it aswell!

What makes you think your car has more power than standard?

Induction kits can actually make you lose power due to heatsoak on some cars.

Ding... Nail/head etc...

More often than none people will loos power putting on after market performance bits - especially if they are not manufacturer approved. I doubt very much TTE or TRD would have supplied the parts you have fitted.

Whilst it's common knowlege manufacturers will "detune" road cars for emission, reliabilty & safety reasons and often opening up the induction system (both inlet & outlet) can free up a few ponies, this is not always the case. There are many ways manufacturers can restrict performance.

In my personal experience with small engined cars, the only thing you get by adding an induction kit and larger bore exhaust is more noise and less power. People often forget that putting large bore/through-flow exhaust systems on an N/A will see you loose a lot of power due to lack of back pressure.

What makes you think your car has more power than standard?

Induction kits can actually make you lose power due to heatsoak on some cars.

People often forget that putting large bore/through-flow exhaust systems on an N/A will see you loose a lot of power due to lack of back pressure.

What a load of bull**** for example going from a 2.25" bore stock exhaust to a 2.5" aftermarket exhaust (spoon, tanabe, mugen etc) on a integra type r you will almost definately see power gains ......... FACT! its been proven!

It is stated some cars.. not all cars... I have an MR2 roadster, it is a known fact that an induction kit will loose power because of heatsoak due to the engine being in the rear and a lack of cold air flow.

It is also stated that it is not always the case that opening up the induction system can free up a few ponies.

It is also stated that the subject vehicle is a small engined car.. and I personally wouldn't say an integra type R is a small engined car.

People often forget that putting large bore/through-flow exhaust systems on an N/A will see you loose a lot of power due to lack of back pressure... proven fact.

So.. to say people are talking b******t is plain wrong. To then have a more personal go at someone because they disagree with you is out of order... Try to read threads more carefully in future, and avoid making yourself look silly, before posting.

If there are anymore personal insults in any shape or form, this thread will be closed.

[The Tvis Kid]

Have to agree with the above point. Everyone has there own ideas/opinion about the cars they drive and ways to improve them. It seems a shame that some people try to belittle others when they seem to have a limited knowledge (and thats not a dig) at what other people are after.

[Smølfen]

but looks like you might have considering you've got £100 ebay seats pictured in you signature!

Aww a nice and contructive thread ruined by "my dad can beat your dad"-speak :(

All of us enjoy different stuff, hate his seats in silence please :)

To the topic:

I would call an Integra Type-R engine a small engine considering it's only a 2.0 litre. However, despite the size of the engine it's a VERY powerfull engine that everyone should show some respect.

Just like the AGE toyota-engines.

Removing the cat can give some more power hence the cat stops the airflow through the exhaust. One thing is backpressure, another thing is limiting the airflow :)

If i wouldn't be gang-banged by the police in Denmark, i would remove my cat and replace it with just a pipe...

[Ade_]

Maybe it just n/a toyotas then because every 1.4 and above honda i've seen thats had an exhaust system whether it be cat-backs or manifold back has seen gains when its been put on the rolling road sometimes maybe not huge gains but definately not power loss!

This is because they have fast flowing heads for such little motors and any breathing mods aids this, personally i stick with a modified airbox and a high flow panel filter as the intake systems are good for 250bhp before they start to suffer, but others have seen 12bhp+ gains from inductions kits such as AEM on the ITR's.

[Jones~32]

others have seen 12bhp+ gains from inductions kits such as AEM on the ITR's.

But its a Corolla, not an Integra

[Ade_]

others have seen 12bhp+ gains from inductions kits such as AEM on the ITR's.

But its a Corolla, not an Integra

We were talking about N/A cars in general mate read the other posts!

[Jones~32]

This is because they have fast flowing heads for such little motors and any breathing mods aids this, personally i stick with a modified airbox and a high flow panel filter as the intake systems are good for 250bhp before they start to suffer, but others have seen 12bhp+ gains from inductions kits such as AEM on the ITR's.

Very General

[Unity Jon]

this thread is like a night down the bar with a bunch of over enthusiastic kids.

[chani]

Thanks for all your posts people, ive had a read through it it all..

but im sure my car has gained at least something from putting an induction kit on which also has a cold air feed that iv directly led under the car so cold air rushes through, i could notice the gains with the exhaust because my rolla felt a bit nippier.

I raced my mates 1.6 corolla which is still an E12 model, i could keep up with him and began to gain at around 50/60mph, so there must be gains but it could be his driving! but its not too hard i dont think!

Anyone with any suggestions to how i could improve performance furtherly? i am thinking of focusing more on handling in terms of lowering, strut bars, alloys and tyre packages. What would you all recommend?

Also is it that VVTI engines are not as powerful or something compared against Hondas VTEC? because when i checked up, the corolla runs at 95bhp and Civic at 89bhp? Im not a wizard at cars but suggestions would be great

Thanks for everyones help

[chani]

Hi everyone i need some ideas or suggestions..

I have a 1.4 Rolla E12 thats running at least 104/105 bhp because of the induction and full exhaust system, but my mate has a honda civic 1.4 and is standard at 89bhp and is also about 3 years old so may have lost a bit of power.

Yet at a race from 0-60, even rolling start at 20/30mph he can still get an easy car length on me. Im not driving stupidly and doing smooth gear changes and revving to around 6,000rpm just before red-lining.

I though it may have been the weight, but the rolla is merely 4kgs heavier and should not make a difference due to my advantage of bhp!

Does anyone have any clue or any ideas, because its boggling my head!

cheers to all!

hey wt induction kit and exhaust system u use??, wt brand is it??

i got a 1.6 E12 vvti (non modified) and i have raced a Ek civic 1.5 vtec earlier (modified a performance exhaust system), but both car got the same acceleration.

Hi there mate, ive got a K&N 57i Induction Kit. The exhaust is a custom made system from the guys at Exhaust UK in sheffield but they manufacture with Cobra exhausts