Mmt Gearbox Problems

[mr automatic]

I have been reading all the problems about the MMT gearbox and I am awaiting delivery of a car with this gearbox. I hope it will be OK but if not what can Toyota realistically do? Even if VOSA says that the car is unsafe what are Toyotas options? Try and repair them again even if there is no fault except bad design. Buy the cars back? Replace the gearbox with a fully automatic gearbox from the Toyotas which are for sale in the rest of the world.

If anybody has any better suggestions please add them here.

[bjw]

Firstly be big enough to hold there hands up and admit they have handled this problem appallingly

Then replace each and every car with a new replacement

I know this will not happen but on the grand scale of Toyota's worldwide turnover it is just a small dot

I have not been effected by this issue as I did not buy an MMT verso but you do not get so many people complain about this problem to put it down to user error and to many of there customers it represents a large part of there hard earned income

And finally the MMT versos taken back in from there loyal customer base issue these cars to Toyota executives as company cars

[Red Yaris 54]

Has anyone actually ever found out what percentage of MMT equipped vehicles sold by Toyota worldwide have had problems with the system.

I suspect that it is a very small percentage of those sold.

I speak as someone who owned and operated a Yaris with MMT box for two very trouble free years.

It is human nature to raise a complaining voice when things go wrong.................................but we remain strangely silent when our cars are running well :)

Before this thread runs away with speculation and flaming, lets have some facts and figures so that we can hold a balanced view of the subject.

[bjw]

Has anyone actually ever found out what percentage of MMT equipped vehicles sold by Toyota worldwide have had problems with the system.

I suspect that it is a very small percentage of those sold.

I speak as someone who owned and operated a Yaris with MMT box for two very trouble free years.

It is human nature to raise a complaining voice when things go wrong.................................but we remain strangely silent when our cars are running well :)

Before this thread runs away with speculation and flaming, lets have some facts and figures so that we can hold a balanced view of the subject.

I have never drove or owned the MMT verso so perhaps I have no right to express an opinion on the problems some drivers are having but I would point out that if the VOSA are prepared to investigate they must have some concern regarding this problem.

I have always maintained that this type of forum you tend to hear when people have had problems so you get an unbalanced view but if you do a search with Google you will see a lot of links regarding MMT problems and as a percentage remember that how many people have not bothered to complain and have just put up with it or have cut there loses and sold there vehicles.

One final point we are talking about a purchase which in most peoples case is there second most expensive thing they will buy and by your own admission maybe the MMT system is not so suitable for the larger engined Verso.

[R Tang]

I think Toyota should admit there is a safety problem. Next, they should modify the MMt gear box on the Verso like that of the Yaris and Auris. It seems that these models are ok so why can't they do it on the Verso. When Toyota over took GM as the leading car maker early this year, the President said his target is to improve production quailty-some 100,000 cars were recalled last year world wide for Toyota. So is not much for them to tackle this safety problems.

I believe the MMt model is quite popular and unfortunately it seems the majority of them have had the problem of flashing N and getting stuck. This Verso is only avaialable in Europe and may be the MMt gearbox is know as some thing else in Asia I don't know. I don't agree with red yaris's comment about people keeping quiet about the good things about the car. If you look at the Whatcar? readers review and our forum, some 90% of owners loves the Verso-the 10% are all MMt owners and the only thing they don't like about the car is the unsafe gearbox. We know the MMt has its driving faults, e.g., not being smooth, changing from 2-3, 3-2 etc. But this we can live with. No car is 100%. The MMt is cheaper and more eco than conventional auto gearbox. But being stuck in N in the middle of a dualcarriage way-well, this is totally not exceptable. So sooner VOSA can sort this out with Toyota GB the better. Some reassurance would be great. I think the other thing is that Toyota GB have been quiet about the matter. I think they should say-we have a problem-this what we are doing to fix it-and sorry about this. Simple formale but why can't they do this I don't know.

[Red Yaris 54]

I think Toyota should admit there is a safety problem. Next, they should modify the MMt gear box on the Verso like that of the Yaris and Auris. It seems that these models are ok so why can't they do it on the Verso. When Toyota over took GM as the leading car maker early this year, the President said his target is to improve production quailty-some 100,000 cars were recalled last year world wide for Toyota. So is not much for them to tackle this safety problems.

I believe the MMt model is quite popular and unfortunately it seems the majority of them have had the problem of flashing N and getting stuck. This Verso is only avaialable in Europe and may be the MMt gearbox is know as some thing else in Asia I don't know. I don't agree with red yaris's comment about people keeping quiet about the good things about the car. If you look at the Whatcar? readers review and our forum, some 90% of owners loves the Verso-the 10% are all MMt owners and the only thing they don't like about the car is the unsafe gearbox. We know the MMt has its driving faults, e.g., not being smooth, changing from 2-3, 3-2 etc. But this we can live with. No car is 100%. The MMt is cheaper and more eco than conventional auto gearbox. But being stuck in N in the middle of a dualcarriage way-well, this is totally not exceptable. So sooner VOSA can sort this out with Toyota GB the better. Some reassurance would be great. I think the other thing is that Toyota GB have been quiet about the matter. I think they should say-we have a problem-this what we are doing to fix it-and sorry about this. Simple formale but why can't they do this I don't know.

Has anyone actually ever found out what percentage of MMT equipped vehicles sold by Toyota worldwide have had problems with the system.

I suspect that it is a very small percentage of those sold.

Does anyone have any FACTS about how many MMT equipped Versos have been sold, and how many MMT equipped Versos have experienced problems.

Measurable figures are required in order to support any balanced valid argument

[bjw]

I think Toyota should admit there is a safety problem. Next, they should modify the MMt gear box on the Verso like that of the Yaris and Auris. It seems that these models are ok so why can't they do it on the Verso. When Toyota over took GM as the leading car maker early this year, the President said his target is to improve production quailty-some 100,000 cars were recalled last year world wide for Toyota. So is not much for them to tackle this safety problems.

I believe the MMt model is quite popular and unfortunately it seems the majority of them have had the problem of flashing N and getting stuck. This Verso is only avaialable in Europe and may be the MMt gearbox is know as some thing else in Asia I don't know. I don't agree with red yaris's comment about people keeping quiet about the good things about the car. If you look at the Whatcar? readers review and our forum, some 90% of owners loves the Verso-the 10% are all MMt owners and the only thing they don't like about the car is the unsafe gearbox. We know the MMt has its driving faults, e.g., not being smooth, changing from 2-3, 3-2 etc. But this we can live with. No car is 100%. The MMt is cheaper and more eco than conventional auto gearbox. But being stuck in N in the middle of a dualcarriage way-well, this is totally not exceptable. So sooner VOSA can sort this out with Toyota GB the better. Some reassurance would be great. I think the other thing is that Toyota GB have been quiet about the matter. I think they should say-we have a problem-this what we are doing to fix it-and sorry about this. Simple formale but why can't they do this I don't know.

Has anyone actually ever found out what percentage of MMT equipped vehicles sold by Toyota worldwide have had problems with the system.

I suspect that it is a very small percentage of those sold.

Does anyone have any FACTS about how many MMT equipped Versos have been sold, and how many MMT equipped Versos have experienced problems.

Measurable figures are required in order to support any balanced valid argument

I don't think anybody will ever find out what the figures are involved as Toyota are the only ones who really knows this information and I don't think they will give this out and in any case no issue has had more complaints than this one so I think that says it all .

Also whether it is 1% or 10% it is irrelevant what matters are the safety of your families .

Why has this never been put in the Avensis is it because the Avensis is aimed at the fleet market and Toyota know they would have the fleet managers in uproar over this issue ??

[Red Yaris 54]

I think Toyota should admit there is a safety problem. Next, they should modify the MMt gear box on the Verso like that of the Yaris and Auris. It seems that these models are ok so why can't they do it on the Verso. When Toyota over took GM as the leading car maker early this year, the President said his target is to improve production quailty-some 100,000 cars were recalled last year world wide for Toyota. So is not much for them to tackle this safety problems.

I believe the MMt model is quite popular and unfortunately it seems the majority of them have had the problem of flashing N and getting stuck. This Verso is only avaialable in Europe and may be the MMt gearbox is know as some thing else in Asia I don't know. I don't agree with red yaris's comment about people keeping quiet about the good things about the car. If you look at the Whatcar? readers review and our forum, some 90% of owners loves the Verso-the 10% are all MMt owners and the only thing they don't like about the car is the unsafe gearbox. We know the MMt has its driving faults, e.g., not being smooth, changing from 2-3, 3-2 etc. But this we can live with. No car is 100%. The MMt is cheaper and more eco than conventional auto gearbox. But being stuck in N in the middle of a dualcarriage way-well, this is totally not exceptable. So sooner VOSA can sort this out with Toyota GB the better. Some reassurance would be great. I think the other thing is that Toyota GB have been quiet about the matter. I think they should say-we have a problem-this what we are doing to fix it-and sorry about this. Simple formale but why can't they do this I don't know.

Has anyone actually ever found out what percentage of MMT equipped vehicles sold by Toyota worldwide have had problems with the system.

I suspect that it is a very small percentage of those sold.

Does anyone have any FACTS about how many MMT equipped Versos have been sold, and how many MMT equipped Versos have experienced problems.

Measurable figures are required in order to support any balanced valid argument

I don't think anybody will ever find out what the figures are involved as Toyota are the only ones who really knows this information and I don't think they will give this out and in any case no issue has had more complaints than this one so I think that says it all .

Also whether it is 1% or 10% it is irrelevant what matters are the safety of your families .

Why has this never been put in the Avensis is it because the Avensis is aimed at the fleet market and Toyota know they would have the fleet managers in uproar over this issue ??

I agree that safety of families is very important.......................but so is a balanced view of the problem.

Quote [bjw- TOC Forum - January 2007]:

"I know these type of forums you can tend to hear just when things go wrong but this forum is quite balanced as you hear good and bad things but what is interesting you seem to be getting more posts complaining about the arrogance of Toyota GB customer services .

As with any mechanical device things can go wrong "

It is important that only FACTS and not suppositions are considered. Can you support your statement about reasons for the Avensis not having MMT box with any firm FACTS?

Unfortunately with issues like the MMT boxes the subject tend to get very emotive and this can cloud the real position and any potential litigation against the manufacturer.

I repeat my request that ONLY THE FACTS should be considered.........................to the advantage of all parties concerned.

Has anyone requested the FACTS from the manufacturer?

[bjw]

Regarding your above post I will state some facts which are below

Quote [bjw- TOC Forum - January 2007]:

"I know these type of forums you can tend to hear just when things go wrong but this forum is quite balanced as you hear good and bad things but what is interesting you seem to be getting more posts complaining about the arrogance of Toyota GB customer services .

As with any mechanical device things can go wrong "

I think this statement demonstrates that I am a fair minded person ( this is a fact)

The VOSA are investigating this problem as a number of concerns have been raised (this is a fact)

the MMT is not available on the Avensis (this is a fact)

I actually asked a question of why the MMT was not on the avensis I did not make a statement

"Quote Why has this never been put in the Avensis is it because the Avensis is aimed at the fleet market and Toyota know they would have the fleet managers in uproar over this issue ??

Customers in the UK and Europe are effected (this is a fact)

A dealer principal at a Toyota dealership advised a customer not to buy the MMT Verso( this is a fact unless the person who made this comment had lied which I doubt)

I understand that a Toyota PR man visits the forums why has no comments been made by him on the subject (this is a fact unless he is Red Yaris 54 in disguise just joking)

Why do you not get very many complaints regarding the MMT on the Yaris and Auris people seem to be able to drive these (this is a fact)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote 18th march 2007

I desperately need your help. I am refusing to drive my Verso T Spirit (MMT gearbox) after losing gears in fast lane of motorway twice

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(this is a fact )unless once again the person is not telling the truth

Unlike you I do not hold much value in facts and figures as these can tend to be interpreted as a person wishes them to be ask a politician

on a final note your quote

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------29th Jan 2006 Red Yaris 54

Perhaps it comes down to driving technique (this hardly a fact)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like you I have purchased Toyota's for 14 years I am not anti Toyota and agree Toyota have tried to sort this problem but unfortunately they seem to be unable to do so at the moment unless they have something else to offer

[Red Yaris 54]

Regarding your above post I will state some facts which are below

Quote [bjw- TOC Forum - January 2007]:

"I know these type of forums you can tend to hear just when things go wrong but this forum is quite balanced as you hear good and bad things but what is interesting you seem to be getting more posts complaining about the arrogance of Toyota GB customer services .

As with any mechanical device things can go wrong "

I think this statement demonstrates that I am a fair minded person ( this is a fact)

The VOSA are investigating this problem as a number of concerns have been raised (this is a fact)

the MMT is not available on the Avensis (this is a fact)

Customers in the UK and Europe are effected (this is a fact)

A dealer principal at a Toyota dealership advised a customer not to buy the MMT Verso( this is a fact unless the person who made this comment had lied which I doubt)

I understand that a Toyota PR man visits the forums why has no comments been made by him on the subject (this is a fact unless he is Red Yaris 54 in disguise just joking)

Why do you not get very many complaints regarding the MMT on the Yaris and Auris people seem to be able to drive these (this is a fact)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote 18th march 2007

I desperately need your help. I am refusing to drive my Verso T Spirit (MMT gearbox) after losing gears in fast lane of motorway twice

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(this is a fact )unless once again the person is not telling the truth

Unlike you I do not hold much value in facts and figures as these can tend to be interpreted as a person wishes them to be ask a politician

on a final note your quote

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------29th Jan 2006 Red Yaris 54

Perhaps it comes down to driving technique (this hardly a fact)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like you I have purchased Toyota's for 14 years I am not anti Toyota and agree Toyota have tried to sort this problem but unfortunately they seem to be unable to do so at the moment unless they have something else to offer

I too am a fair minded person with no "axe to grind"....................(Fact) :)

I must state that I have no professional connection with Toyota...............(Fact) ;)

My statement about driving technique was a personal opinion................One of the reasons why many of us post on these forums is to express personal opinions.

I regret that you do not hold much value in facts and figures .....................as when it comes to litigation that is the only thing that the law will recognise......................(Fact) :)

I agree with you that MMT is not available on the Avensis..............That is a Fact................but your statement about the reasons why not is purely an opinion and not a fact.

I accept that some TOC forum users have experienced problems with their Verso MMT vehicles. I note that you say you have never driven or owned an MMT Verso, so will accordingly not be qualified to present any FACTS to the VOSA.

My concern is that until the full facts regarding the numbers of these problems are established and published, none of us are qualified to make a total judgement on the manufacturer.

I am ever hopeful that the VOSA will establish the undistorted truth about the situation, by gathering FACTS and discounting supposition.

That is the only way that those Verso MMT owners problems will be addressed. :)

[bjw]

Regarding your above post I will state some facts which are below

Quote [bjw- TOC Forum - January 2007]:

"I know these type of forums you can tend to hear just when things go wrong but this forum is quite balanced as you hear good and bad things but what is interesting you seem to be getting more posts complaining about the arrogance of Toyota GB customer services .

As with any mechanical device things can go wrong "

I think this statement demonstrates that I am a fair minded person ( this is a fact)

The VOSA are investigating this problem as a number of concerns have been raised (this is a fact)

the MMT is not available on the Avensis (this is a fact)

Customers in the UK and Europe are effected (this is a fact)

A dealer principal at a Toyota dealership advised a customer not to buy the MMT Verso( this is a fact unless the person who made this comment had lied which I doubt)

I understand that a Toyota PR man visits the forums why has no comments been made by him on the subject (this is a fact unless he is Red Yaris 54 in disguise just joking)

Why do you not get very many complaints regarding the MMT on the Yaris and Auris people seem to be able to drive these (this is a fact)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote 18th march 2007

I desperately need your help. I am refusing to drive my Verso T Spirit (MMT gearbox) after losing gears in fast lane of motorway twice

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(this is a fact )unless once again the person is not telling the truth

Unlike you I do not hold much value in facts and figures as these can tend to be interpreted as a person wishes them to be ask a politician

on a final note your quote

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------29th Jan 2006 Red Yaris 54

Perhaps it comes down to driving technique (this hardly a fact)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like you I have purchased Toyota's for 14 years I am not anti Toyota and agree Toyota have tried to sort this problem but unfortunately they seem to be unable to do so at the moment unless they have something else to offer

I too am a fair minded person with no "axe to grind"....................(Fact) :)

I must state that I have no professional connection with Toyota...............(Fact) ;)

My statement about driving technique was a personal opinion................One of the reasons why many of us post on these forums is to express personal opinions.

I regret that you do not hold much value in facts and figures .....................as when it comes to litigation that is the only thing that the law will recognise......................(Fact) :)

I agree with you that MMT is not available on the Avensis..............That is a Fact................but your statement about the reasons why not is purely an opinion and not a fact.

I accept that some TOC forum users have experienced problems with their Verso MMT vehicles. I note that you say you have never driven or owned an MMT Verso, so will accordingly not be qualified to present any FACTS to the VOSA.

My concern is that until the full facts regarding the numbers of these problems are established and published, none of us are qualified to make a total judgement on the manufacturer.

I am ever hopeful that the VOSA will establish the undistorted truth about the situation, by gathering FACTS and discounting supposition.

That is the only way that those Verso MMT owners problems will be addressed. :)

Unless Toyota are prepared to give these figures you say it is not possible to discuss the problems perhaps being a moderator on TOC I would say you may be in the best position to obtain these statistics and your talk of potential litigation it is usually the person with the better legal team that gets the results

And as you point out I do not own an MMT or have driven an MMT so will not be in a position to present any facts to VOSA but it does not stop me supporting other TOC members on this forum as if I was in the same position I would not be very pleased

[Red Yaris 54]

Regarding your above post I will state some facts which are below

Quote [bjw- TOC Forum - January 2007]:

"I know these type of forums you can tend to hear just when things go wrong but this forum is quite balanced as you hear good and bad things but what is interesting you seem to be getting more posts complaining about the arrogance of Toyota GB customer services .

As with any mechanical device things can go wrong "

I think this statement demonstrates that I am a fair minded person ( this is a fact)

The VOSA are investigating this problem as a number of concerns have been raised (this is a fact)

the MMT is not available on the Avensis (this is a fact)

Customers in the UK and Europe are effected (this is a fact)

A dealer principal at a Toyota dealership advised a customer not to buy the MMT Verso( this is a fact unless the person who made this comment had lied which I doubt)

I understand that a Toyota PR man visits the forums why has no comments been made by him on the subject (this is a fact unless he is Red Yaris 54 in disguise just joking)

Why do you not get very many complaints regarding the MMT on the Yaris and Auris people seem to be able to drive these (this is a fact)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote 18th march 2007

I desperately need your help. I am refusing to drive my Verso T Spirit (MMT gearbox) after losing gears in fast lane of motorway twice

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(this is a fact )unless once again the person is not telling the truth

Unlike you I do not hold much value in facts and figures as these can tend to be interpreted as a person wishes them to be ask a politician

on a final note your quote

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------29th Jan 2006 Red Yaris 54

Perhaps it comes down to driving technique (this hardly a fact)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like you I have purchased Toyota's for 14 years I am not anti Toyota and agree Toyota have tried to sort this problem but unfortunately they seem to be unable to do so at the moment unless they have something else to offer

I too am a fair minded person with no "axe to grind"....................(Fact) :)

I must state that I have no professional connection with Toyota...............(Fact) ;)

My statement about driving technique was a personal opinion................One of the reasons why many of us post on these forums is to express personal opinions.

I regret that you do not hold much value in facts and figures .....................as when it comes to litigation that is the only thing that the law will recognise......................(Fact) :)

I agree with you that MMT is not available on the Avensis..............That is a Fact................but your statement about the reasons why not is purely an opinion and not a fact.

I accept that some TOC forum users have experienced problems with their Verso MMT vehicles. I note that you say you have never driven or owned an MMT Verso, so will accordingly not be qualified to present any FACTS to the VOSA.

My concern is that until the full facts regarding the numbers of these problems are established and published, none of us are qualified to make a total judgement on the manufacturer.

I am ever hopeful that the VOSA will establish the undistorted truth about the situation, by gathering FACTS and discounting supposition.

That is the only way that those Verso MMT owners problems will be addressed. :)

Unless Toyota are prepared to give these figures you say it is not possible to discuss the problems perhaps being a moderator on TOC I would say you may be in the best position to obtain these statistics and your talk of potential litigation it is usually the person with the better legal team that gets the results

My position as an unpaid moderator on TOC does not give me any more chance of obtaining statistics from Toyota....(Fact)

I would expect that the aggrieved Verso owners would ask Toyota for those statistics.

Litigation can be very expensive if you do not hold the full facts :(

I am ever hopeful that the VOSA will establish the undistorted truth about the situation, by gathering FACTS and discounting supposition.

That is the only way that those Verso MMT owners problems will be addressed.

Possibly the VOSA will eventually publish their findings....................and let us hope that it will bring an end to the debate

[bjw]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" qoute

Litigation can be very expensive if you do not hold the full facts "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Litigation can be expensive even if you do have all the facts (that is a fact)

"My position as an unpaid moderator on TOC does not give me any more chance of obtaining statistics from Toyota....(Fact)"

I am sure we all appreciate the work you do for TOC

"I am ever hopeful that the VOSA will establish the undistorted truth about the situation, by gathering FACTS and discounting supposition.

That is the only way that those Verso MMT owners problems will be addressed.

These people have a right to comment on this as you have said ................One of the reasons why many of us post on these forums is to express personal opinions" from what I have read most postings seem to have been from concerned owners

and regarding them asking for the statistics I must admit I don't think anybody would have a cat in hells chance of obtaining them I would be more interested in is how many more complaints have been posted on these forums regarding the Verso MMT compared to the Yaris and Auris

[Red Yaris 54]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" qoute

Litigation can be very expensive if you do not hold the full facts "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Litigation can be expensive even if you do have all the facts (that is a fact)

"My position as an unpaid moderator on TOC does not give me any more chance of obtaining statistics from Toyota....(Fact)"

I am sure we all appreciate the work you do for TOC

"I am ever hopeful that the VOSA will establish the undistorted truth about the situation, by gathering FACTS and discounting supposition.

That is the only way that those Verso MMT owners problems will be addressed.

These people have a right to comment on this as you have said ................One of the reasons why many of us post on these forums is to express personal opinions" from what I have read most postings seem to have been from concerned owners

and regarding them asking for the statistics I must admit I don't think anybody would have a cat in hells chance of obtaining them I would be more interested in is how many more complaints have been posted on these forums regarding the Verso MMT compared to the Yaris and Auris

I would suggest that the aggreived owners of Verso MMT vehicles request the facts and statistics from the manufacturer.

If they are not forthcoming it may well add weight to their case.

I feel that this particular thread has now run its course as there are other threads on the TOC MPV forums that more than adequately address the topic :)