Chipping/remapping/piggyback Ecu

[sphinktar1988]

anyone got any of these done to there car?

what basically is the diffrence between all of them and what prices am i going to be looking at

i keep gettin told that to get the best of my new mods i need to remap after there all done

[Yaris SR Kid]

Yes you can mate, dastek unichp is best one for 1.3, will cost you about £500 to get it on and mapped to your car!

I was going to do it but tbh it will get you about 8bhp more and not really worth it on a 1.3!

Its alot of money so might aswell get new car after you have had fun with this one!

[alanbradley]

Its not about the power that the piggyback chip gives you its the flexibility. Its something that should be done last and it will be programmed to make the most of the mods you've fitted.

A

[LittleM@n]

Yesterday I star thinking seriouly how I'm gonna change the electronic control of the engine after I'll fit all the mods.

And last night I have re-read an article upon all the chipping/remapping options.

It's like this:

1)remapping is done through the OBD connector, without any phisycal interventions at the car, or at the electronic parts.

U go at the tuner, he fits a cable in the OBD from his computer, read the maps, and change them to new ones, optimized. Usually they are optimised by the mother company, and all they are doing there is to just charge new maps in the ECU's flash memory.

As far as I understand, at least in my surroundings, Toyota cannot be remapped through the OBD. Another problem is that if they are not editing the maps them selves in real time, modiffing the matrixes while the car is on road or on dyno, and just upload them, the maps they are uploading are just a moddified version of the original ECU, modded considering the original parts...and not the other parts you've added.

2)chipping is almost the same as remapping, the only difference is that the flash memory will be taken out from the ECU, inserted in a special device for reading and uploading the reedited maps (also by PC, of course), and welded back to the ECU board. The problem is the same, your ECU will function considering that you have standard parts if it's not real time edited (and in this case, you cannot mod them realtime, because you don't have the flash on the ECU anymore...I think that your car won't even start...). This is the first option that I've found for my Yaris (1.0).

And I don't think that you can have the editing soft for the maps that easy...the companies that are developing (like Fujitsu (the Yaris ECU is made by Fujutsu), Bosch or Siemens) are asking large amount of money (maybe millions of euros) for one chip (and software) developed.

3)piggyback is a separate unit, you can name it a new ECU, that will function in parallel with the original one. It is reading the same sensors as ECU is doing, and have separate new maps (it's inapropiate to say maps, in fact they are 2D or 3D matrixes), and finally it is telling the ECU what to do. The advantage of this is that you can edit the maps by your PC (if you have the experience), because the piggy comes with it's personal editing software.

And you can start mod them form the original one readed from the ECU (and as far as I understand, the original maps won't be even deleted, and you can take it out and move to another car, and the ECU will work again like before).

This is the alternative that I enjoy most, but is more expensive than the first two. I like it because you can rechange the datas from the matrixes anytime you want, you can optimize them in time (someone driving, you read and change parameters in the piggy back by the laptop in real time).

4)Standalone ECU. It's comming usually with it's sensors and it's completing replacing the ECU. The problem is if you are starting mapping the Standalone ECU from 0, the work you have to do it's almost impossible. There are so many matrixes and things you have to change and calcule, that it may take you years to develop a good working ECU in any conditions (the street ones). Usually this type of modification, the Standalone unit, is used at race cars. There you know that you're focusing at developing the ECU for high rpms functioning. But the start from cold will always be hard, the car will often stall at idle, and so on...or you are thinking the ECU developers are staying for nothing? (some of the units can read the original ECU,and start the mods from there). Also there are piggy backs that will act almost like a Standalone...and the price is lower for the piggyback, and also it has the advantage to could be eliminated, without changing the whole electrical systems...an example for thsi could be Greddy eManage Ultimate.

This being told, let's see the prices: For the chipping I've been quoted to 150 euros. Almost the same for remapping. Only problem is, as I said before, the new matrixes are almost irelevant to your mods.

Price for Dastek piggy back starts form around 400-450 euros I think (with or without the modding...this I don't know for sure). The entry level Greddy eManage (Blue one) I've found it yesterday at Envy for 280 pounds as far as I remember, and the advanced eManage Ultimate was 400 pounds. The Greddy comes with the software, and the USB PC connection cable, so it looks like it's almost a DIY if you have some electronics and programing knowledge.

Price for Standalone units, I have no ideea from where they start from, but I know I've seen once one for around 1000 pounds...

Sorry for thge long story, but I hope it's useful.

P.S.: Advice from the already (advanced) users: what piggy back do I need for my 1.0 Yaris? And how hard is to manage one by your self? Tnx.

[Woody27]

When the time comes i'm personally just going to use a Air Fuel Controller (AFC) as it's much cheaper, more user accessible and although will not produce as much power as the full piggyback, i think will give me better bang for buck.

[cooperman66]

ive been quoted just over £500 for steinbauher chip for my d4d which includes on off switch 3 year guarantee on engine in case mr toyota say chip caused engine failure and its piggy back so when your car goes in for srevice it will not be wiped of all its memory which can happen to other types of chips if not removed before service, and steinbauher will trade it back if you buy a different car.

[alanbradley]

Cooperman, mine had a simple chip from e-bay fitted and the difference is impressive. I've had it fitted for well over 20 thousand miles with no problems. Doubtless its simply a variable resistor/rheostat in a fancy box, but it seems to do the job. It cost me about £120.

I'd love to get mine re-mapped properly, but I can't justify the money for it right now. :(

A

[sphinktar1988]

ah i see balls to that i thought it was a lot cheaper than that like rather be shot than pay £500 lol

how do you do that air flow thing woody was sayin about?

fancyed remapping because it should get rid of my flatsport theoretically

[LittleM@n]

That AFC works similar as a piggy back, but it can manage only the Air-Fuel ratio matrix.

Depends on what you want...

Similar you have Rev Limiter Controler, Ignition Controler, Launch controler, Boost Controler etc, devices that manage only a part of the engine parameters. And as far as I read, the Greddy eManage Blue have most usuall parameters that you can change included, and only half of price of all the devices took individually.

[Woody27]

Yeah difference is that an AFC is more user friendly than an E-manage designed mainly for tuners. The E-manage has many more parameters (IF you buy the extra add-ons) but you need more dyno time to configure one accurately which will cost you more! E-manage is less of something you can do on the go whereas the AFC is more so (though a dyno is best for both really, with the AFC requiring less time).

For an example the bog standard Greddy E-manage only controls fueling (out of the options that are any use to us) This is the same as an Apexi AFC neo or SAFC and costs about the same price as those from Apexi. For the additional features such as ignition timing control you need an additional harness and more software to program it. The same goes with most of the other features of the Greddy in that you need special add-ons to access them. This makes it more expensive than AFC and also much more harder to tune for the everyday person. By this time you may aswell have bought the Dastek piggyback as that is £500 bought, installed and mapped to your car and is probably just as good as the Greddy E-manage Blue and cheaper.

Also comparing basic functions of Emanage to that of AFC, The E-manage blue "Basic functions will allow the user to slightly alter factory injector duty-cycle (± 20% at 5 preset RPM points) by intercepting and altering airflow or MAP sensor signals." Whereas the AFC neo "The AFC NEO boasts an incredible 16 points of user definable fuel correction." Also this is +/- 50% signal correction so is much more flexibility across the range as an AFC (though i wouldn't have thought you would exceed +/- 20%). But yeah also if you were to take a look at Thor's website you would see an E-manage installation and mapping is £352.50 whereas a AFC installation and Mapping is £176.25. Ok yes that is for the mapping of the E-manage with the added functions but you have to buy them add-ons aswell anyway!

Therefore imo the AFC is a better purchase for a 1.3 and the Dastek unichip for the 1.5. Sorry for the long rant but just trying to give both sides of the argument in full :)

P.S. Please correct me if i'm wrong at any stage as i am mainly quoting what i have read from the websites of the products

[Yaris SR Kid]

woody do you have any links to Air Fuel Controller? cant find it through google!

[Woody27]

There a few around but the most popular are:

Apexi AFC neo

Apexi SAFC II

Power Enterprise Camcon (This is relatively untested in UK on modded yaris but allows VVT-i changes aswell )

That should give you enough results mate! As a rough price, AFC neo bout £175 on eBay, SAFC II about £165 and camcon about £220.

[Yaris SR Kid]

Cheers dude will read into them!

[LittleM@n]

And what should I use for a turbo'd 1.0?

It would be also more confortable for me to get only an AFC, but it can manage the whole modded instalation?