Rear Handling Problem With Lowered Cts

[dvw]

Having now lowered my CTS on GMax springs (-45mmF / -30mmR) I am experiencing some bizarre handling. When on a straight section of road at medium speed (say 60mph) or when steering slightly right at lower speeds (30mph+), the rear of the car twitches to the left when driving over broken tarmac. This makes the car feel like its being twisted, and body rolls at the rear but not at the front. This morning on the way to work it did it and actually slightly altered the direction the car was going in forcing a swift steering correction. It was not good. I have driven very firm cars before but the back end was predictable, this however is not at all and the rear never twitches (jumps) to the right, only ever the left. Anyone else have this?

Many thanks.

[linty264]

hmm Im thinkin back brakes are better than fronts that would twitch it out more and make it more noticable cause its lowered now. check your discs and pads mate.

[St3ve]

If it's doing this when driving normally, stop and check every nut and bolt. From the sounds of it, it could be there is a bolt missing causing the wheel to come out of alignment when you get above a certain speed.

[dvw]

Well Sod this for a game of soldiers!! Just got back from the garage and the handling problem is a fractured shock. Not happy. First the ant-roll bar linkage breaks and now a rear shock has fractured! The lowering springs are coming off! Standard springs back on Friday. Car back to Mr. T for shocks replaced under warranty. Wouldn't mind but it was the Toyota salesman who told me lowering springs were a must. Yes I know the handling won't be as good but I just can't afford to keep throwing money at this car. and with Toyota not honoring warranties while we have mods on our cars I have no choice but to go stock. (To think, I had such great plans. Boo Hoo!)

Off to the pub!

DVW

[kintung01]

Well Sod this for a game of soldiers!! Just got back from the garage and the handling problem is a fractured shock. Not happy. First the ant-roll bar linkage breaks and now a rear shock has fractured! The lowering springs are coming off! Standard springs back on Friday. Car back to Mr. T for shocks replaced under warranty. Wouldn't mind but it was the Toyota salesman who told me lowering springs were a must. Yes I know the handling won't be as good but I just can't afford to keep throwing money at this car. and with Toyota not honoring warranties while we have mods on our cars I have no choice but to go stock. (To think, I had such great plans. Boo Hoo!)

Off to the pub!

DVW

so wt is the cause? it fracture due to the lowering spring??

because i am planning to lower my car as well

[rolley]

Well Sod this for a game of soldiers!! Just got back from the garage and the handling problem is a fractured shock. Not happy. First the ant-roll bar linkage breaks and now a rear shock has fractured! The lowering springs are coming off! Standard springs back on Friday. Car back to Mr. T for shocks replaced under warranty. Wouldn't mind but it was the Toyota salesman who told me lowering springs were a must. Yes I know the handling won't be as good but I just can't afford to keep throwing money at this car. and with Toyota not honoring warranties while we have mods on our cars I have no choice but to go stock. (To think, I had such great plans. Boo Hoo!)

Off to the pub!

DVW

so wt is the cause? it fracture due to the lowering spring??

because i am planning to lower my car as well

I would not have thought lowering springs would cause the shock to fracture. All springs do is set the dampers height and obviously absorb impact! My initial feeling is that the shock was damaged during the change! or.... the rear springs are faulty in some way maybe too short or weak resulting in an absorbed impact that the springs couldn't handle and left the shock taking the brunt of it! I think your just having some bad luck! Stick at it and you'll have a fantastic handling car!

[dvw]

Adding lowering springs to any car increases the loads on both the shocks and the struts. Most of the time this is not a problem however it will lead to premature ageing of them. In my case it appears that the shocks on the rear were already weak because the previos owner decided that they would fit a tow bar to thier CTS. So whilst it's true the springs didn't damage the shocks directly they did exaggerate the problem and the shock fractured.

I do agree that adding lowering springs significantly improves the appearance of the CTS and also significantly reduces body roll. They offer a cheap and cost effective solution to the CTS's less than perfect suspension. That said though I should have taken my mechanic's original advice and fitted coilovers but as I could't afford them straight away, being impatient I jumped straight in with lowering springs.

I am now of the following opinion. This is now my second CTS. I have owned other hot hatches in between the two T-Sports. All have been brilliant but I am now back in a CTS. At the end of the day this was a great car the day it left toyota. They knew what they were doing. If I really wanted Type R handling I would have kept the Type R or the 182 but I didn't (terrible hangover cars!) as they are awsome fun to drive but not always nice to drive (if you know what I mean). The CTS is brilliant because it is two cars in one. In the morning when I can't be ubikd driving, the CTS is a relaxing place to be. But when I'm coming home though and feel like playing it can be a beast!! Brilliant!

I know I have rambled but this has been a useful learning curve for me. Yes, adding mods will make a great car better, but if you don't mod you still have a great car (and a bit more money in your pocket!)

Warmest regards, (I'll shut up now!)

DVW

[OldSkoO1]

Interesting - i'll remember this when upgrading the springs on my T180. Prob the TTE springs.

I know what you mean about the toyotas, our CTS / compressor and now the T180 - they give the best of both worlds. With the T180 i can tootle along keeping off the boost and glide by in the morning and the on way home can have some serious fun on the boost. I love em!

Compressor was a bit different due to the lack of lift with the supercharger but still fun as it revs high when u want.

Have fun

[cfc1]

Having now lowered my CTS on GMax springs (-45mmF / -30mmR)

I would not have thought lowering springs would cause the shock to fracture. All springs do is set the dampers height and obviously absorb impact! My initial feeling is that the shock was damaged during the change! or.... the rear springs are faulty in some way maybe too short or weak resulting in an absorbed impact that the springs couldn't handle and left the shock taking the brunt of it! I think your just having some bad luck! Stick at it and you'll have a fantastic handling car!

Where to start???

This is some advice I received from someone I know very well.. someone who runs a company who design and build some of the best suspension parts in the world today.. Whiteline Automotive UK

When lowering a car on springs alone, it isn't advisable to go lower than a 30mm drop.

When a car is cornering there is bodyroll, during this, the cars springs are compressed and the shock absorber contracts, but there is only so much suspension travel before you hit the bump stops. If a car is lowered more than 30mm on springs alone then the remaining suspension travel isn't always enough to cushion a bump during cornering, this results in what is known as bump steer. As the car hits a bump, the wheels leave the road and the car bounces round the corner.. we have all been behind a car that appears to do this (now you know why). This problem can be solved in a few ways...

1. If you want to go lower than 30mm.. fit coilovers... not only have the springs been changed, but the shock absorbers are changed aswell, this inturn stiffens up the suspension helping it do the job it was designed to do.

2. Upgrade your anti-roll bars... fitting these vastly reduces bodyroll, so when cornering the springs don't compress as much leaving more suspension travel keeping the wheels in contact with the road if you hit a bump.. eliminating bump steer.

3. Fitting both coilovers AND anti-roll bars.. for even better results.

rolley - Fitting lowering springs (lower than 30mm) CAN cause the shock absorbers to fracture, even more so if the new springs aren't any stiffer than stock... when they bottom out the shocks take the strain and punishment and they can fail prematurely.

dvw - You also said that your anti-roll bar linkages failed too.. this is due to the same reason as your shocks fractured.. impact.. because you lowered your car too much and the suspension couldn't do it's job.

If you want to lower your car more than 30mm do it properly, don't do it useing only springs.. your suspension just won't work... Get a good set of coilovers, and a set of uprated anti-roll bars and drop links (thats the anti-roll bar linkages) You will be amazed at the difference a set of anti-roll bars make.. its like night and day.. one of (if not the) best suspension mods you can make FACT!.

[dvw]

I couldn't agree more. Coilovers are definately the way to go and your advice regarding lowering springs is sound. I just got tempted by Gmax's drop of 45mm at the front. It does look awesome but at what cost? Gmax are being brilliant though and are taking the springs back and giving me a full refund. The standard shocks are being refitted as we speak.

Sound advice my friend. many thanks.

And you guys who have just bought your T-Sports....ENJOY!! You now own a quality motor!

Regards,

DVW

[dvw]

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT!!

I went to the garage to pick up my car that was having the stock springs refitted in readiness for the car to go into Mr. T to have its rear shocks replaced under warranty BUT when I get there the car is still lowered?

The mechanic (and my friend) had decided that (on my behalf) he would leave the Gmax springs on and fitted two new sports shocks to the rear of the car! He was out when I collected the car so I haven't spoken to him yet but I have to say.... NICE ONE!

The cars handling is fantastic. The back of the car now joins in with the drive and it flys around corners effortlessly and is totally predictable. Even get lift off now (a little bit). Can't wait fro my front shocks to need replacing. This is what the car should have been like in the first place. The handling now finally matches the engine.

I can only imagine what coilovers must be like although he has put sports shocks on for me. He has given me the old shocks, one was really weak and the other had failed completely. Turn the shock upside down and the piston just falls out! He has told me to contact Toyota and tell them that he had to replace the shock for me as the car was unsafe and should not have been sold to me in that condition and attempt to get them to pay a contribution equivelant to their charge for replacing standard shocks.

Might work. I'll let you know.

[hedzx]

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT!!

I went to the garage to pick up my car that was having the stock springs refitted in readiness for the car to go into Mr. T to have its rear shocks replaced under warranty BUT when I get there the car is still lowered?

The mechanic (and my friend) had decided that (on my behalf) he would leave the Gmax springs on and fitted two new sports shocks to the rear of the car! He was out when I collected the car so I haven't spoken to him yet but I have to say.... NICE ONE!

The cars handling is fantastic. The back of the car now joins in with the drive and it flys around corners effortlessly and is totally predictable. Even get lift off now (a little bit). Can't wait fro my front shocks to need replacing. This is what the car should have been like in the first place. The handling now finally matches the engine.

I can only imagine what coilovers must be like although he has put sports shocks on for me. He has given me the old shocks, one was really weak and the other had failed completely. Turn the shock upside down and the piston just falls out! He has told me to contact Toyota and tell them that he had to replace the shock for me as the car was unsafe and should not have been sold to me in that condition and attempt to get them to pay a contribution equivelant to their charge for replacing standard shocks.

Might work. I'll let you know.

congrats, have fun with your cts

[cfc1]

The back of the car now joins in with the drive and it flys around corners effortlessly and is totally predictable. Even get lift off now (a little bit).

Not too sure what you mean by that, but if you mean that the rear wheels are lifting from the road a little then that can be stopped too.. upgrade your rear anti-roll bars, stop the body rolling and in turn, the suspension compressing, giving more suspension travel during cornering.

Best suspension Mod going.