Finally Bought One!

[edamduke]

This may be a bit of a long post, but it has been a long time coming…

After a year of Celica ownership and a year of wanting a Four, I now have one. I will be running both my GT and GT-Four for 3-6months as I love the GT to bits and don’t want to sell it yet.

My GT4: a very nice facelift UK in Rosso red. I really wasn’t happy with the colour but because of the spec. and price I couldn’t pass up the offer, even if I do sell it relatively soon. Anyway, the colour is growing on me and so is the car. It is stock apart from a full 3” stainless system and Bailey BoV which are about the only 2 mods I would have accepted on a used car. It also has leather and as a result I will be selling a set from one of my Celica’s before I sell one of the cars.

The performance over the GT is not mind blowing but is extremely good and I am in love with 4WD, superstrut and Supra sized brakes now. I cannot believe how differently the cars feel and how the same engine behaves so differently which raises a few queries…

Firstly, the GT-Four “feels” like it weighs a tonne more! It is extremely heavy through the wheel and very lazy off boost, the throttle, brakes and steering are nowhere near as responsive as the GT and therefore is more of an effort to drive. However, I do get more feedback and it can clearly do things the GT can’t if I just put in a little more effort. Is all this right?

Secondly, as mentioned the engine behaves so differently. I loved the little revvy feel of the GT with it screaming its way past 7000. It also allowed me to drive very economically below 2k, often driving in 5th below 35mph. But with the four, it feels like it struggles below 2k in any gear/speed. What is more of a surprise is how it feels as though it hits a rev limiter at 6k even though it goes up to 7250. This does tie up with a power curve I have found but should it be so drastic and why does it lose power at 6k? I guess I am a little disappointed by the 3-6k usable range compared to the 1-7.2k that I love on the GT.

Although I may seem a little negative, I am blown away by the handling and power of the four and have definitely been converted and will not look back. I am just a little surprised with the differences and getting used to a whole new driving experience as well as the fun and quirky nature of owning a turbo!

Sorry for the length of post again. Let me know what you think.

Ben

[sotal]

Sorry can't help with the queries as I've never driven a 4, but congrats on the purchase

Red's the best colour too

[GT4 BOOSTER]

steering feels heavy due to the superstrut set up ball joints .Its more like a push n pull set up than rack n pinion.

turbo engines are low compression off turbo to allow for turbo boost , otherwise the engine would simply destroy itself . ( so im informed )

brakes could have a problem as the gt4 brakes easily whoop gt brakes any day .

the reason it seems to labour in 2nd gear is cos ur driving 4 wheels and not 2 . so it needs a few more revs.

once the gt4 reaches boost level it turns into a beast , more of an animal than the gt. once boost is there the gt is history.

oh and the gt engine is totally different to the gt4 engine , 3sge and 3sgte are not 1 of the same.

[T600]

I think you need to look into the loss of power at 6K.

To my mind, the two engines aren't that different apart from the Turbo which provides much better air-flow than anything available on an N/A; therefore, there's no reason at all why the 3S-GTE should begin to run out at 6K, mine certainly doesn't.

[edamduke]

Cheers guys, they were the exact answers that I was hoping for. It is disappointing that it has poor off-boost performance but then I didn't buy it for it's off-boost properties.

The brakes are certainly better, just not as responsive and like everything else on the car requires a little more effort. I will bleed them soon as I think it might be the cause. Still not had the chance to take the wheels off and have a good look around. I am taking it easy until I can get back to my drive and tools and then I will pull it to bits and replace all consumables/fluids.

As for the 6k thing. I do have a a curve from Rototest which clearly shows a major drop off. However, I did have a wild theory that as I have a 3" exhaust, I was getting boost creep and hitting the FCD. Mind you, I have had no experience of turbos and boost creep so wouldn't know what this feel like.

[Sketchy]

Cheers guys, they were the exact answers that I was hoping for. It is disappointing that it has poor off-boost performance but then I didn't buy it for it's off-boost properties.

The brakes are certainly better, just not as responsive and like everything else on the car requires a little more effort. I will bleed them soon as I think it might be the cause. Still not had the chance to take the wheels off and have a good look around. I am taking it easy until I can get back to my drive and tools and then I will pull it to bits and replace all consumables/fluids.

As for the 6k thing. I do have a a curve from Rototest which clearly shows a major drop off. However, I did have a wild theory that as I have a 3" exhaust, I was getting boost creep and hitting the FCD. Mind you, I have had no experience of turbos and boost creep so wouldn't know what this feel like.

If you where hitting Fuel Cut you would know about it, it's not a gentle cut like a rev limiter it's a full on feels like the car hit something type slow down and the car won't rev past it.

Does it still have the stock CAT? This could be starting to degrade and causing a restriction in the top end of the rev range. Power curves do normally start to drop off after just over 6k on mostly stock cars but it should be a gradual decline not a major decrease.

Get the timing checked and also the plugs, bad plugs do tend to show up in the high range more than low. Also check when the fuel filter was last replaced. Other than that check for restrictions in the intake system and also do you know what boost it is running?

[edamduke]

The boost is fine according to the stock gauge. (I intend to get a new one soon). The cat has done 107k so may not be great anymore. I have my Iridium plugs from my GT to put in when I get round to replacing all the coolants etc. I can't see plugs on any of the history, so this may help. I will also change some other ignition components and the fuel filter which hasn't been done for 30k or so.

I'm not too keen on decatting it due to MoTs etc. but what are the alternatives? Are hi-flow cats pricey? Any idea of the cost of a stock cat?

[Sketchy]

The boost is fine according to the stock gauge. (I intend to get a new one soon). The cat has done 107k so may not be great anymore. I have my Iridium plugs from my GT to put in when I get round to replacing all the coolants etc. I can't see plugs on any of the history, so this may help. I will also change some other ignition components and the fuel filter which hasn't been done for 30k or so.

I'm not too keen on decatting it due to MoTs etc. but what are the alternatives? Are hi-flow cats pricey? Any idea of the cost of a stock cat?

The Stock boost gauge is pants only reads up to about 10psi and is extremely inaccurate get a proper one on asap.

What grade are the plugs? Stock for 3s-gte is 6 most people go for 7's though. BKR7EIX for NGK's or IK22 for Denso's in case you need to know. If the plugs have never been done then they deffinately need replacing, also leads dizzy cap and rotor will probably need doing as well. Go for Original Toyota parts for the ignition bits blue print parts are alot cheaper but they don't tend to last as anywhere near as long.

I would also recommend some injector cleaner like redex, make sure you get the one for turbo petrol engines though. Also take off the charge cooler and give it a good cleaning out with some petrol, you be supprised how much cack is in there...

Re decat there are a few options but none are particularly cheap as with anything for these cars...

Decat pipe(XS Power, HS&R, Aussie from low to high price and also easy of fitting) + Aussie 3" Flexi with sports cat from fensport

Decat pipe + universal High flow cat custom fitted in flexi section

Sard High flow cat. Very Expensive but extremely good fit effectively a 3" decat pipe but with a small high flow cat in the middle also good as it has mounts for the stock cat support brackets so no problems with cracking due to flex etc.

[edamduke]

Used Redex on day 1, said it was suitable for Turbo but wasn't specifically for it. I have the NGK Iridiums from my GT. They are 6 in temp but as the four only has exhaust and filter I think they'll do for now. I intend to strip the ancillaries/charge cooler back a bit and replace various parts in 2 months, looking forward to seeing if there will be much difference.

Would people recommend Mr. T HT leads as opposed to Magnecore?

[Fizz]

Did you test drive the car before buying?

A healthy ST205 does not have a limit of 6k... my peak power on the RR day came in at 6700 and it holds full boost all the way to redline and beyond to the limiter which is about 7400.

The reason the car may have been cheap is because it obviously has some issues which need looking at. Once the car is running at full operational levels then you can correctly compare the GT and the GT4. :P

[Jones~32]

Would people recommend Mr. T HT leads as opposed to Magnecore?

The opinion I got on the OC was that the stock Toyota leads are of very good quality and more than suitable for the job, I replaced mine with stock leads

Congrats on the purchase, as Sketchy said if you hit fuel cut, you know about it! might be overfueling more than most? I would change the dizzy cap & rotor arm too as mine started to play up a bit when I upped my boost to 1.1bar, after changing those items it ran like a dream :D and definatley no power loss at 6k! hehe

[edamduke]

I did drive it but to be honest didn't really test it past 6k thoroughly being uninsured and all. Testing it now and it seems mine. Boosts fully to just over 7k and doesn't hit any walls at 6k like I first thought. The rest of the car seems sweet, no issues at all. I'll replace all the fluids, belts and ignition and then see how she compares.

I'm back in the GT for a week as I'm back in Bristol (the Four is in Chester) and I am still amazed at how different the 2 cars are. I thought the four would be a similar, but firmer, faster Celica but it is entirely different. Love them both in very different ways!

[AndyS]

wait till u drive it hard in the wet. the gt4 has so much grip its amazing.

i did this and it was in the wet

[edamduke]

Well you say that but I had a bit of a scary experience in the wet lastweek. Lost all grip and went sidways across the road for a least 30 yards. Wet not raining, good tires, corrct pressure. I was a little disappointed as I expected it to grip and grip and grip. To be fair, I was doing ~35-40 and it was a very tight bend close to full lock.

[AndyS]

close to full lock is a flipping hairpin mate. and if u went 30 yards across the road, u was going far to fast. sounds like u need some lessons.

get to the GT4OC challenge day in a couple of weeks for some track driving.