Problem Aygo

[telecasterisation]

Eight weeks ago I took delivery of a new Aygo, semi-auto, three door.

Two weeks later I was going up a fairly steep hill, me and a passenger in the car, it had been raining very heavily. The road was very narrow and I was doing about 10mph in second gear (the box was selecting the gear). The power began to go and the box dropped into first, the car got slower, I gave it gas but there was the most overpowering smell of burning. The car stopped and the passenger jumped out saying he thought it was going to catch fire. I switched the engine off.

My door was next to a stone wall so I couldn't get out quickly even if I had to. I switched the engine back on, it started okay and it drove perfectly for about 30 yards and the problem repeated itself. Fortunately I was able to turn around and go back down the hill where the car seemed to work fine on the horizontal.

I called Toyota and they said they couldn't see it for 6 days. I drove home, the car seemed okay and next day phoned the service manager who told me not to drive the car, it was picked up and I was given a hire car. Toyota kept it for a day and said they couldn't find a problem, it was returned.

Now since this, the problem has happened twice more, plus there have been occasions where it has had trouble getting into reverse - this is accompanied by a very strong smell of burning rubber. In fact my wife reported the reversing problem before I noticed it.

I wrote Toyota a letter saying I wasn't happy with the vehicle and it has just been picked up, and I have another courtesy car. I heard the service manager talking to someone in the background with his hand over the mouthpiece and he said 'Go and see if Graham has that Aygo back (meaning the courtesy car), for this idiot (meaning me)?'

After the first time, I was told that it was the way I was driving it that was causing the 'problem' - but it is semi-auto and I can only drive at the speed of the road conditions. Has anyone else heard or experienced of a similar problem with Aygos?

[Jan van de Wouw]

Sounds like the Clutch Solenoid isn't disengaging properly

and/or the "soft-start" system isn't working properly.

I believe there's a warning in the owners manual concerning

keeping the car at low speed with high revs by applying the brake.

If you go from E-mode to M-mode and change

gears manually, does the car still behave this way?

[youngwasp]

Sounds like the Clutch Solenoid isn't disengaging properly

and/or the "soft-start" system isn't working properly.

I believe there's a warning in the owners manual concerning

keeping the car at low speed with high revs by applying the brake.

If you go from E-mode to M-mode and change

gears manually, does the car still behave this way?

I admit I have never used M-mode. How would you keep revs up and apply the brake?

[Jan van de Wouw]

How would you keep revs up and apply the brake?

By using both feet like in a go-kart or using the "heel and toe" style of driving...

[youngwasp]

How would you keep revs up and apply the brake?

By using both feet like in a go-kart or using the "heel and toe" style of driving...

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this, is it being suggested that I was using both feet even though I didn't mention it, or is the warning in the book comment just being generic?

[Jan van de Wouw]

It's generic, as there are people that are used to driving that way on a manual.

A good friend of mine drives rally and has tried teaching me "heel and toe",

but I suck at it. However, if he does it it allows him to change gears

while braking AND blipping the throtle to keep a drift going.

He uses his left foot on the clutch and brakes with his right.

The throttle is depresse either with the side of his foot or his heel,

depending on the situation...

Damn right TERRIFYING if you're sitting next to him :P

But to keep on-topic; if your dealer isn't taking you seriously,

you can allways seek advice at another dealer.

It might even be something simple as software...

[ben_e71]

It's generic, as there are people that are used to driving that way on a manual.

A good friend of mine drives rally and has tried teaching me "heel and toe",

but I suck at it. However, if he does it it allows him to change gears

while braking AND blipping the throtle to keep a drift going.

He uses his left foot on the clutch and brakes with his right.

The throttle is depresse either with the side of his foot or his heel,

depending on the situation...

Damn right TERRIFYING if you're sitting next to him :P

But to keep on-topic; if your dealer isn't taking you seriously,

you can allways seek advice at another dealer.

It might even be something simple as software...

I would go to a different dealer.

[T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S.]

I might be worth getting an independent inspection (RAC or whoever)

[telecasterisation]

Thanks for all the responses;

Got a call yesterday from the service manager, apparently he has been driving it 'exhaustively'. He admitted to smelling burning rubber going up a hill but then (assuming he realised where that could lead), added that it might have been outside the car and just entered the vehicle through the vents, thus covering his back.

If they cannot locate the fault/s and given the facts as they stand, what would people here demand/expect from now? In other words, as the vehicle is only 8 weeks old with virtually nothing on the clock - would you say;

1) Full refund - stick the car.

2) Brand new replacement vehicle.

3) Keep it until you find the problem and repair it.

4) Equivalent mileage used vehicle.

5) Just give me the car back and I'll drive it until it goes 'pop'.

6) Another option.

[Blue84]

That sounds very worrying to me, be very persistant with them and perhaps look into getting some independant advice (as mentioned above) - maybe make a list of every time the problem occurs and keep it all well documented....I think perhaps they could do more with regards to finding the fault first but then they never really seem to want to do much at first no matter what the problem is (I don't mean to tar all dealers with the same brush by the way, I'm talking generally here).

[Jan van de Wouw]

Get it repaired, that should be the easiest and least hassle for both parties...

But you DO have to insist on them fixing it, as obviously there's something wrong...

[kenl]

I would give them the car along with a letter addressed to the dealer principal (copy to Toyota UK) advising them that the car has been supplied with a fault and contravenes the Supply of Goods Act. You are willing to give them one further attempt with a fixed timescale. If they fail to fix it, you demand either a full refund or a replacement NEW car at no cost to you.

Might be worthwhile taking the service manager out and demonstrating the problem.

[telecasterisation]

I would give them the car along with a letter addressed to the dealer principal (copy to Toyota UK) advising them that the car has been supplied with a fault and contravenes the Supply of Goods Act. You are willing to give them one further attempt with a fixed timescale. If they fail to fix it, you demand either a full refund or a replacement NEW car at no cost to you.

Might be worthwhile taking the service manager out and demonstrating the problem.

Whilst I accept the sentiment, the fault is so intermittent (and only when it is raining, or has been), that I can drive it for several days with no apparent problem. Therefore it isn't as easy as simply jumping in and the fault manifests itself. I submitted a letter stating what has been suggested but getting them to admit there is a problem - then moving to a place where everyone is satisfied, is proving difficult.

As for the comment earlier 'Get it repaired, that should be the easiest and least hassle for both parties...';

First they have to locate the fault/s, then you have to consider that this has all happened in the first couple of weeks of taking delivery. My job is such that I have to do around 400 miles per week and to rely on a car that developed faults so quickly from new is not very encouraging or confidence inspiring. I am happy to have another Aygo - just not the one they originally gave me.

[kenl]

have to do around 400 miles per week and to rely on a car that developed faults so quickly from new is not very encouraging or confidence inspiring. I am happy to have another Aygo - just not the one they originally gave me.

Reject it then.

[Chris81]

If you decide to reject it, do it a.s.a.p. Maybe get some legal advice and find out what the procedure is for rejecting a car. From what I've heard, and as you'd expect, the manufacturers don't make it easy but you only have a certain timescale to do it. Depending on that timescale I'd maybe try a different dealer first and see if you get anywhere. The problem sounds dangerous and the service guy admits he also smelt burning. Clearly something isn't right and I can imagine you're mightily annoyed with a so-called reliable brand letting you down so badly. Good luck with it.

[telecasterisation]

If you decide to reject it, do it a.s.a.p. Maybe get some legal advice and find out what the procedure is for rejecting a car. From what I've heard, and as you'd expect, the manufacturers don't make it easy but you only have a certain timescale to do it. Depending on that timescale I'd maybe try a different dealer first and see if you get anywhere. The problem sounds dangerous and the service guy admits he also smelt burning. Clearly something isn't right and I can imagine you're mightily annoyed with a so-called reliable brand letting you down so badly. Good luck with it.

As soon as this all started I contacted Citizens Advice and it appears that you have 6 months within which to return a problem new vehicle.

I have clearly told them I do not want the vehicle back, but it gets complicated when the fault isn't obvious.

[kenl]

There is plenty info on the net, have a look at this thread:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/2nd-gen-faults-...t-your-car.html

It is a MINI site, I posted there (same username) on my experiences and links to DTI rules on supply of goods act.

[telecasterisation]

Things have moved on;

I had a call today from the head of the dealership, they have established that the automatic clutch is burnt out and needs replacing - the damaged clutch has to be returned to Toyota Japan for examination. The replacement unit will be supplied and fitted by Thursday next week. However, I am on holiday from Saturday and they expect the car to be on my driveway for collection when I will be using it to go away.

One other point - I said that I would be prepared to pay the difference between my car (silver 3 door MMT, eight weeks old, 2000 on the clock), for the courtesy car I have - an Aygo black manual 5 door, alloys, NO air con, 1000 on the clock and they want £1000 to cover the difference - I paid £7750 for mine.

Here is the car I am currently driving whilst mine is repaired;

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_...200731292337842

Any thoughts?

[Big Bad Bob]

see if you can get them to fit air con and get a deal the semi auto is not the best !

[T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S.]

Glad they seem to have diagnosed the problem, are sorting it out. Besides that though, you should get something to compensate for your inconvenience and stress - perhaps a bit more than a full tank of petrol. Do they know why the clutch burnt out? Hopefully that won't happen again.

[Jan van de Wouw]

As I said earlier: just get YOUR car fixed.

IMHO £1000 is WAY too steep a difference and it's NOT the car you

want or you'd have bought a black 5dr manual without A/C...

[telecasterisation]

The brown stuff made contact with the fan this morning - the wife said under no circumstances were we having the original car back, so the black one I am using (the courtesy car), is staying and I am forking out for the difference.

The dealer remained completely stoic and didn't budge an inch - it appears that in the case of buying cars and any follow up service, "the customer is always wrong". No matter how fancy the sign over the dealership, they are just a bunch of car salesmen - Arthur Daley 2007.

[telecasterisation]

As I said earlier: just get YOUR car fixed.

IMHO £1000 is WAY too steep a difference and it's NOT the car you

want or you'd have bought a black 5dr manual without A/C...

That is an interesting point.

I originally ordered an Aygo Black. I paid the deposit over the phone and had a delivery date 5 weeks from that day. This was important as I was starting a new job, which I detailed to the salesman at the time. I then got a call to go and complete other paperwork so arranged to meet 'my' salesman at 11:00 the following Thursday. I turned up but apparently he had gone to the post office? I waited for 20 minutes and then started making unhappy noises.

Another staff member appeared with the paperwork and as we were working through it, he casually dropped into the conversation, did I know my delivery date had been put back? I replied that I did not, put back until when? He said 'September' - which was four months later than the original date, no-one had bothered to tell me even though they had known for nearly a week. I had to cancel the order.

I then wrote a letter of complaint and was then contacted by the dealer principal who said he could get me a silver 3 door auto in one week, so I took it. This was purely out of necessity.

[Jan van de Wouw]

Ah, so in fact you're now getting what you want, only without the alloys and A/C?

You're going to miss the A/C I'm afraid. Boy am I glad I DO have it on my "Black"...

[kenl]

The brown stuff made contact with the fan this morning - the wife said under no circumstances were we having the original car back, so the black one I am using (the courtesy car), is staying and I am forking out for the difference.

The dealer remained completely stoic and didn't budge an inch - it appears that in the case of buying cars and any follow up service, "the customer is always wrong". No matter how fancy the sign over the dealership, they are just a bunch of car salesmen - Arthur Daley 2007.

I don't think you are being completely fair to the dealer. They are fixing the car, in good time, such that it will be perfect.

As to the £1000, yes it is too much to ask but then they are in business to make a profit. Trade in any car and they will offer you at least £1k less than they would be looking to sell it for.

Your (or your wife's) choice, but I would stick with the original car you chose to buy.