2002 Rav 4 Starting Problem - Again

[ajstars]

Following much appreciated advice before about this problem it has come back to haunt me yet again.

We have a D4D 2 Litre Diesel Rav 4 2002 model. It has about 55000 miles on the clock.

Every now and then it has a little glitch of not starting - but now it is getting worse - far worse, and all the dealer said was "Thank you for your money - there is nothing wrong with it".

Symptoms:

Engine will not start from hot or cold

Far worse when wheather is a bit colder

I think it is worse when there is <1/4 of a tank of fuel (to be confirmed)

Starter motor turns engine quickly and noes not change speed

Can take up to six attempts of extended cranking to get it to start.

There is good pressure on the fuel pump (manual button on top).

The glow plug warning light comes on for about 2 seconds before turning off.

The only thing I seem to have found to help it is Millers diesel additive.

Please help me or it's goodbye Rav, hello Nissan.

[chatman]

Following much appreciated advice before about this problem it has come back to haunt me yet again.

We have a D4D 2 Litre Diesel Rav 4 2002 model. It has about 55000 miles on the clock.

Every now and then it has a little glitch of not starting - but now it is getting worse - far worse, and all the dealer said was "Thank you for your money - there is nothing wrong with it".

Symptoms:

Engine will not start from hot or cold

Far worse when wheather is a bit colder

I think it is worse when there is <1/4 of a tank of fuel (to be confirmed)

Starter motor turns engine quickly and noes not change speed

Can take up to six attempts of extended cranking to get it to start.

There is good pressure on the fuel pump (manual button on top).

The glow plug warning light comes on for about 2 seconds before turning off.

The only thing I seem to have found to help it is Millers diesel additive.

Please help me or it's goodbye Rav, hello Nissan.

Phew thought you were going to say CRV then...Lucky we might not have answered you ;) ;)

Have you tried the usual suspects, fuel filter, air leek in fuel pipes (mine had this and did what yours does..) I also read in the Avensis forum about two valves on fuel pump that can stick. Also check the air flow meter...

Failing this Anchorman may give some advise as he's more technically & mechanically minded than me..... :D :D

[ajstars]

Thanks,

I have not checked the items you mentioned, but would imagine the air sensor was checked by the garage.

Where was yours pulling air from - there is a lot of pipework to check and it may be that there is a known weak join?

Thanks again

[chatman]

Thanks,

I have not checked the items you mentioned, but would imagine the air sensor was checked by the garage.

Where was yours pulling air from - there is a lot of pipework to check and it may be that there is a known weak join?

Thanks again

The air leak I cant say where it was leaking from as they replaced the whole lot and re-sealed...

[ajstars]

Hi, thanks again - and due to your help I have found it!

Got under the car and looked straight up at the pump and the whole lot is soaked - including the gearbox which is swimming in diesel - (not quite sure how I missed that before!)

So car is now booked back in with the dealer for tomorrow and hopefully they will sort it under warranty and give me my money back!

Thanks - soooo happy

(and no I would not consider a CRV, only an Xtrail or L200 or Landy!)

:D

[chatman]

Hi, thanks again - and due to your help I have found it!

Got under the car and looked straight up at the pump and the whole lot is soaked - including the gearbox which is swimming in diesel - (not quite sure how I missed that before!)

So car is now booked back in with the dealer for tomorrow and hopefully they will sort it under warranty and give me my money back!

Thanks - soooo happy

(and no I would not consider a CRV, only an Xtrail or L200 or Landy!)

:D

No probs AJ...

:eek: a nedflander (landy) :eek: hope you like garages.....

[eifelbud]

I've got the same problem with my new RAV4 2.2 D-CAT, which I received in Sept 2007.

Rearely, but a few times per month it happens that the 1st start fails, even if continuing to keep the key in the starting position. The batterie is turning the engine, but it does not start at all. The 2nd try is always the same as the 1st. The 3rd trial has success. After some seconds the engine starts very roughly and is producing a nailing sound for some seconds before it runs well.

There is no logic in when it happens, only that it was mostly the 1st start after a longer trip on the highway. Sometimes it can happen 2 days in row, somtimes the problem never appears in 3 weeks.

I've already tried to pre-heat 20 seconds before starting, but the error appeared also.

My Toyota dealer has reset the software (for the diesel pump) to its defaults - no success.

Then he has installed the latest version of engine controlling software - no success.

He now wants to keep the car for a week and wants to replay this error. But I think it will not happen then.

Any idea? Does anyone had a similar problem and what was the cause?

I'm really disappointed with my new RAV4 and wish that I would have kept my old car :-(

[anchorman]

I've got the same problem with my new RAV4 2.2 D-CAT, which I received in Sept 2007.

Rearely, but a few times per month it happens that the 1st start fails, even if continuing to keep the key in the starting position. The batterie is turning the engine, but it does not start at all. The 2nd try is always the same as the 1st. The 3rd trial has success. After some seconds the engine starts very roughly and is producing a nailing sound for some seconds before it runs well.

There is no logic in when it happens, only that it was mostly the 1st start after a longer trip on the highway. Sometimes it can happen 2 days in row, somtimes the problem never appears in 3 weeks.

I've already tried to pre-heat 20 seconds before starting, but the error appeared also.

My Toyota dealer has reset the software (for the diesel pump) to its defaults - no success.

Then he has installed the latest version of engine controlling software - no success.

He now wants to keep the car for a week and wants to replay this error. But I think it will not happen then.

Any idea? Does anyone had a similar problem and what was the cause?

I'm really disappointed with my new RAV4 and wish that I would have kept my old car :-(

Hello and welcome to the club.

I don't believe your RAV has any software problems as it does not have the right symptoms. Can you say if your car was parked facing uphill or downhill before these problems? It sounds more like either the fuel running back to the tank or it is drawing air. If when you experience the problem you lift the bonnet and pump the plunger on top of the filter you should feel resistance. If it is easy to press keep doing so until you feel resistance and try again. It should start but will sound uneven for a few seconds until it establishes full fuel pressure. Your Toyota dealer should know what to do after this.

Good luck and seasons greetings

[eifelbud]

Hello and welcome to the club.

I don't believe your RAV has any software problems as it does not have the right symptoms. Can you say if your car was parked facing uphill or downhill before these problems? It sounds more like either the fuel running back to the tank or it is drawing air. If when you experience the problem you lift the bonnet and pump the plunger on top of the filter you should feel resistance. If it is easy to press keep doing so until you feel resistance and try again. It should start but will sound uneven for a few seconds until it establishes full fuel pressure. Your Toyota dealer should know what to do after this.

Good luck and seasons greetings

Thanks for your help.

It happened approxiamtely 15 times since I got the car in Spetember 2007 and always after I parked the car flat or a little bit facing uphill (never downhill). And it was mostly (or always except once) after a trip of more than 20 minutes on a highway with quite constant speed, when there was only a short distance on the roads to the parking destination. The next start after at least 4 hours of cooling down caused the problem, but not easily repeatable, maybe on 1 of 5 trips.

At my home place in the hills I have to park the car steeper facing uphill or downhill. But if I remember it right, the problem never appeared here.

I will perform your advice with the resistance of the plumger next time the problem appears. And I've got a appointment in my Toyota garage in 10 days, when I'm going to hand over the car for a week, but I think it will be very difficult for them to reproduce the error.

[anchorman]

Hello and welcome to the club.

I don't believe your RAV has any software problems as it does not have the right symptoms. Can you say if your car was parked facing uphill or downhill before these problems? It sounds more like either the fuel running back to the tank or it is drawing air. If when you experience the problem you lift the bonnet and pump the plunger on top of the filter you should feel resistance. If it is easy to press keep doing so until you feel resistance and try again. It should start but will sound uneven for a few seconds until it establishes full fuel pressure. Your Toyota dealer should know what to do after this.

Good luck and seasons greetings

Thanks for your help.

It happened approxiamtely 15 times since I got the car in Spetember 2007 and always after I parked the car flat or a little bit facing uphill (never downhill). And it was mostly (or always except once) after a trip of more than 20 minutes on a highway with quite constant speed, when there was only a short distance on the roads to the parking destination. The next start after at least 4 hours of cooling down caused the problem, but not easily repeatable, maybe on 1 of 5 trips.

At my home place in the hills I have to park the car steeper facing uphill or downhill. But if I remember it right, the problem never appeared here.

I will perform your advice with the resistance of the plumger next time the problem appears. And I've got a appointment in my Toyota garage in 10 days, when I'm going to hand over the car for a week, but I think it will be very difficult for them to reproduce the error.

Yes toothache syndrome. You never know they might get it first time!

Keeps us updated.

[eifelbud]

My RAV4 is back from the Toyota dealer, after keeping it for 1 week to fix the starting problem, which appears approximately 4 times per month: the engine rotates, but does not self-ignite and 3 long start trials are required to get it running.

Actually no components were replaced. Only the software update was installed again and some initialisations were performed. He meant, that he (after checking with Toyota) could have made a mistake not fully following a procedure, when installing the software update last time.

Finally he kept the car for a few further days, but could not repeat the starting problem. This was expected by me, because it happened only randomly (1 iof 5-10 times) at the following cold start after a longer (minimum 30 minutes) trip.

This was already my 3rd visit in the garage because of the starting problem. As a rental car I got a Toyota Aygo for the full week, which was as least better than taking my bicycle in the winter season.

RAV4 2.2 D-CAT, Sept 2007

[BigBaz]

I had a similar problem with a Peugeot diesel........

Changed Glow Plugs, job done.

Could it be the same with your RAV ?

[eifelbud]

I had a similar problem with a Peugeot diesel........

Changed Glow Plugs, job done.

Could it be the same with your RAV ?

It could. But if, then I would expect that my Toyota Dealer should know this and would have replaced the glow plugs instead of updating and initialising the software again and again.

RAV4 2.2 D-CAT, Sep 2007

[anchorman]

I had a similar problem with a Peugeot diesel........

Changed Glow Plugs, job done.

Could it be the same with your RAV ?

It could. But if, then I would expect that my Toyota Dealer should know this and would have replaced the glow plugs instead of updating and initialising the software again and again.

RAV4 2.2 D-CAT, Sep 2007

I would want the car while it is exhibiting the problem. The glow plugs should not give an intermittent problem unless it is with the wiring or the timer relay/temp sensor.

However, the symptoms you describe are either with air in the system or a shortage of fuel. You really should try the hand priming pump pictured here;

It is located at the right side towards the back as you look under the bonnet/hood. When the car does not start press the plunger - it should be quite stiff. If it is not keep pumping until you feel resistance and then start the engine. It should start fairly quickly but me still be rough "like nails". This should point the dealer at the fuel system and not the electronics.

Good luck

[eifelbud]

Thanks to anchorman for the help. I will probably try it if I will have the time to investigate.

Even after 5 months having trouble starting the engine and 3 visits at my local Toyota dealer due to this problem, it is still not solved. It happened twice in the last 8 days, once the day after I drove to Brussels and parked at night in the garage at the airport and the second time on one morning, after I drove halve an hour on the autobahn on the evening before (five starts were required to ignite). Consequently it appears after a ride on the autobahn or highway with constant speed and not after short trips. It seems to be very difficult to localize and to demonstrate, it happens randomly. Thus "again" I will bring it to the garage in February ("again" for a full week) and will "again" drive with a Aygo or another very small car and will "again" be more disappointed. Does anybody know how often this procedure will continue until Toyota reacts and exchanges or takes back the car? After driving Toyota cars like Starlet, Corolla, RAV4.1 for 17 years, I'm now thinking to change my car company due to the problems with my latest RAV4.3.

Another annoying observation, which could help to find the fault of my car, could be that when driving with constant speed e.g. 120km/h the actual fuel consumption indicates for example 9 liters/100km and jumps in intervals of 3 seconds for less than 1 second up to 14 liters/100km and then back. But sometimes the actual fuel consumption indication is quite constant.

Toyota RAV4 2.2 D-CAT September 2007

[anchorman]

The way it works here is that the dealer is the mediator for Toyota. They have to be your first point of contact. I suggest you go back to them and tell them that you feel you have had enough and that your confidence is lost. Depending on the reaction of the dealer (he may decide to just accept your request) you might have to follow that in writing giving details of all the instances the car has caused problems. If that doesn't work contact Toyota de Customer Relations and tell them you no longer wish to support their investagative program and require an exchange.

Over here if that fails we go to the Government Department and report the despute to them.

They also don't like publicity so as a very last resort you could write to the motoring press and offer your story.

Finally, this is not a common problem (or at least not on the forum) so you should be able to accept an exchange with confidence. I think you will have far more chance of getting an exchange than your money back.

Good luck.

[BELAIR]

My RAV4 thread

I have a very similar problem with my Rav - above is the link to my thread, the update now being it is still in the dealer garage over 2 months later and still no joy!!! 7 weeks in they tried to tell me it may a 'characteristic' of the model!!!

Have the area techincal manager taking over the case next week - it is out of warranty at the end of Feb as well

I just dispair

[plee]

Following much appreciated advice before about this problem it has come back to haunt me yet again.

We have a D4D 2 Litre Diesel Rav 4 2002 model. It has about 55000 miles on the clock.

Every now and then it has a little glitch of not starting - but now it is getting worse - far worse, and all the dealer said was "Thank you for your money - there is nothing wrong with it".

Symptoms:

Engine will not start from hot or cold

Far worse when wheather is a bit colder

I think it is worse when there is <1/4 of a tank of fuel (to be confirmed)

Starter motor turns engine quickly and noes not change speed

Can take up to six attempts of extended cranking to get it to start.

There is good pressure on the fuel pump (manual button on top).

The glow plug warning light comes on for about 2 seconds before turning off.

The only thing I seem to have found to help it is Millers diesel additive.

Please help me or it's goodbye Rav, hello Nissan.

[plee]

Following much appreciated advice before about this problem it has come back to haunt me yet again.

We have a D4D 2 Litre Diesel Rav 4 2002 model. It has about 55000 miles on the clock.

Every now and then it has a little glitch of not starting - but now it is getting worse - far worse, and all the dealer said was "Thank you for your money - there is nothing wrong with it".

Symptoms:

Engine will not start from hot or cold

Far worse when wheather is a bit colder

I think it is worse when there is <1/4 of a tank of fuel (to be confirmed)

Starter motor turns engine quickly and noes not change speed

Can take up to six attempts of extended cranking to get it to start.

There is good pressure on the fuel pump (manual button on top).

The glow plug warning light comes on for about 2 seconds before turning off.

The only thing I seem to have found to help it is Millers diesel additive.

Please help me or it's goodbye Rav, hello Nissan.

Hi, I had a starting problem with my Avensis since last Nov. It would start up with difficulty from cold, but after driving it I would find it impossible to start when it got warm, it would crank over but refuse to start. Chjanged glow plugs and a starting motor switch and was told that the car may have had compression problems !!!

Took it to a brilliant mechanic and he told me straight awy that it was a starting motor problem.

After the new starting motor was inserted the car is now starting like a dream and has given me great peace of mind.

[mickboy]

Hi guys....These diesel starting problems seem to be a Toyota glitch..in general diesels need air, heat and fuel to run.

From cold the glow plugs and compression provide the heat and the fuel pump via the injectors provide the fuel as the starter spins the engine over. Usually starting a diesel when hot should be quicker and easier as the engine is already heat soaked.

As your engine is relativley new we can assume that the compression is ok, glow plugs easily checked ok and that the starter is spinning at its optimum speed then that only leaves fuel...unfortunately the fuel is computer controlled unless as previously suggested the system is sucking in air. I suspect that there is a software problem or sensor that is intermittantly telling the injectors not to release the fuel which Toyota should be able to diagnose...

Just my 2 pennyworth .....Hope its soon sorted :(

Mick

[anchorman]

My RAV4 thread

I have a very similar problem with my Rav - above is the link to my thread, the update now being it is still in the dealer garage over 2 months later and still no joy!!! 7 weeks in they tried to tell me it may a 'characteristic' of the model!!!

Have the area techincal manager taking over the case next week - it is out of warranty at the end of Feb as well

I just dispair

I get mesmorised with these things, I thought this was the same one!!! We could do with some sort of filing system that categorises these faults then we can find them easily.

If you both still have the same fault and you have both been following these threads then one of you should be able to tell me what happens when you prime that black plunger if the car won't start. Once I know what happens I will try to point you in the right direction.

Cheers

[Ingolf]

Where was yours pulling air from - there is a lot of pipework to check and it may be that there is a known weak join?

With my D4D I had the same Problem abt. half a year ago.

It was pulling air into the diesel pipe. Because it´s a low pressure pipe you´ll never see diesel coming out. But if the diesel pump starts working, air is pulled inside the pipe.

Here the problem was a loose clamp where the pipe (coming from the tank) was fixed at the diesel filter.

I replaced the original clamp by a hose clamp and the problem was gone.

The original toyota clamps are not tight enough at this position!!!

Afterwards the diesel consumption dropped abt. 1 litre as well.

Here´s a picture with the new hose clamp (meanwhile replaced by a better version):

[anchorman]

Ingolf

Thanks for this. It is precisely the kind of feedback and photo that helps us understand properly what the solutions are. I suspect somthing similar is happening with the 4.3 but they need to feedback some information before we can go to the next stage. I will add your solution to my new database. Thanks again.

[BELAIR]

My RAV4 thread

I have a very similar problem with my Rav - above is the link to my thread, the update now being it is still in the dealer garage over 2 months later and still no joy!!! 7 weeks in they tried to tell me it may a 'characteristic' of the model!!!

Have the area techincal manager taking over the case next week - it is out of warranty at the end of Feb as well

I just dispair

I get mesmorised with these things, I thought this was the same one!!! We could do with some sort of filing system that categorises these faults then we can find them easily.

If you both still have the same fault and you have both been following these threads then one of you should be able to tell me what happens when you prime that black plunger if the car won't start. Once I know what happens I will try to point you in the right direction.

Cheers

Sorry Arnchorman I couldn't tell you - I know very little about cars and haven't seen my Rav since November anyway

[eifelbud]

At the 4th trial to repair the starting problem of my RAV4 2.2 D-CAT the diesel pump and the tubes were replaced mid February. Since then the starting problem did not appeared. I assume that it is solved, but I can only be sure after some more weeks, as it sometimes did not appeared for two weeks in a row before the repair.

What makes me believe that it is solved is that the car starts smoother as before and that it feels to have much more power with lower gas. It really feels like having 50% more power, when driving with a high gear at lower speed.

Additionally the fuel consumption seems to be reduced. In the 6 months since I got the car the average consumption was nearly 8 liters. The first full tank emptied after the repair showed an average of only 7,4 liters driving the same roads and speed as before with winter tires.

Thanks to all who tried to help me here, especially to "anchorman".

You can see how the fuel consumption was reduced by clicking on the average consumption numbers below:

Toyota RAV4 2.2 D-CAT September 2007