Rav4 Flywheel Problem

[Fujisan]

Good luck with your repairs Tracey

Hope your car is running smooth again very soon!

[anchorman]

Hi Tracey

Welcome to the club, a place where we regularly have a rant and and exchange trivia!

It's a pity that the mood is darkened by the odd tale from unsatisfied owners and this is all too often provoked by Toyota themselves. I am currently waiting for some information from Toyota about this "hot potatoe" as to what exactly their policy is because different owners are being told different things. Part of the trouble is (like in your case and zippy [futher back]) that it appears that the dealer is unsure about whether there really is a DMF issue or if the front desk service advisor is just stating gut feeling but rest assured if they take it all apart to find it was only an engine mounting you will be faced with one hell of a bill. The Toyota dealer should have checked every avenue before coming to this conclusion. You could be the first to tell us that the engine mountings are susceptable and who knows if some owners have paid an astronomical bill for a DMF when it was only an engine mounting.

You may well be better at a local garage who will have a labour rate half that of Toyota and will approach it with an open mind. We know for a fact that in some cases Toyota charge a premium for parts (apologies to our good friend within that organisation - I know you don't make the rules mate) but when the fault is one so fundamental, premature and expensive as this one keeps rearing its head then the least they could do is to make the partsd available for a modest price instead of rubbing salt in the wounds.

I hope that common sense prevails and Toyota PR come back with some good news on this but until they do any potential new owners are going to read stories like this and take their custom elswhere.

Good luck but please keep us informed as this helps to build up a database on this subject that could prevent other owners from being misled.

Regards

[pursy]

Pursy

I definitely applaud you for having a go yourself. It is exactly what I would do but unfortunately a lot of members don't have the courage, dtermination, knowledge or facilities to do it.

I read through the process of removing the box some time ago and it did look relatively straight forward although I wouldn't be too thrilled at doing it twice.

I can only think that if it is slipping that it is either the pressure plate or the slave cylinder. I also once saw clutch slipping soon after fitting on an old Sierra of my neighbour who had paid to have the clutch renewed at a local garage. They had fitted the drive plate the wrong way around (with the boss to the flywheel). The result was that when a small amount of material wore off the friction linings, the pressure plate contacted the boss and prevented it from clamping.

When you fitted the pressure plate did you feel the spring tension clamping the drive plate up as you tightened the bolts? Also the release fork hasn't got dislodged preventing it to fully clear?

Just a couple of thoughts.

Good luck mate.

[pursy]

Got the gearbox back out yesterday afternoon and started early this morning(7am) with a straight edge and steel rule and found out that the thrust bearing was not going fully back and was binding on the aluminium tube it slides on.5 minutes with some emery cloth and a good clean and the box went back in(if only it was that easy).Its as good as new now so although i have had to do it twice its still a saving. the clutch and flywheel were £600 +vat compared with £1800 for Brooklyn.I didnt notice in the manual i used that you need to remove 2 bolts that go thru the transaxle into the engine block and since i dont have an engine cradle i used a bottle jack to support the engine although it seems a bit precarious at times. Hope this helps anyone brave or stupid enough to have a go yourself. :D

[dave.m]

Good for you mate , you are indeed a brave man.

Dave.

[chatman]

the clutch and flywheel were £600 +vat compared with £1800 for Brooklyn.

Where did you get the parts from. May help other users get them, then get these fitted by mechanic....

Details of contact and part numbers would help....

Well done for being brave enough to do this (and warm as it was freezing this morning).....

[Fujisan]

Hats off to you Pursy Top man

[pursy]

I used Frenco Service Replacements in Kidderminster ask for Gareth 01562754931. he took the reg no to cross ref to the right parts.I have seen these parts advertised on eBay at a similar price but as i have an account with the above firm for our truck parts i used them.Sachs and LUK also did a clutch kit one of them was about £20 cheaper and the other £4 dearer but i stuck with the 1 manafacturer for the whole shooting match.If anyone does do it themselves the only tool i struggled for was a 30mm multipoint socket you need for the drive shafts i managed with a combination spanner and a piece of tube. Good luck to anyone whos got a similar problem i hope you get it sorted its a pity Toyota havn't held their hand up to it.

[anchorman]

To be fair they have promised to investigate this issue further and will come back to me ASAP with a statement.

[MANDSAS]

Like many of you I am new to this and joined to get some info on this very problem. I live in France and bought my RAV4 as an ex-demonstrator in May 2004 (first registered in December 2003). During the warranty period I had all the requisite services carried out by a Toyota agent but took it to a local garage as soon as I could because I was not too happy with the service. Anyway, a very familiar story - what started as an irritating rattle soon became difficulty to engage gears and was diagnosed as a clutch problem (estimate €800). when the car went in for repair they discovered the dreaded flywheel defect and contacted Toyota to ask if they would extend the warranty (3 years 8 months and 123000km on the clock.

Toyota said no, so I ended up paying €2200 and took it up with Toyota France. My first letter (copied to Toyota Europe) resulted in the standard reply "sorry but out of warranty" and "work not carried out by an accredited Toyota centre". Absolutely no response to the points I had made about numerous refernces on forums about this defect.

I have written again in much stronger terms and made it clear that I will involve consumer groups and the media if I do not receive a satisfactory oucome. I have again copied in Toyota Europe and asked them to intervene.

I would be interested to know the results of your informal survey and any other facts or cases you can point me to. I suspect this is going to be a long haul and the more of us who have suffered that band together, the greater the chance of making Toyota take notice and actually do something.

[Fujisan]

Welcome to the TOC Mandsas, sorry it isn't under happier circumstances.

Very sorry to hear about your problems with your DMF and the trouble you are having with Mr T.

Hope you get a good result in the end.

[anchorman]

I have chased for a reply on this subject. You have to remember that it is perhaps a bit unfair to ask for a statement as they have to treat each occurance on its own individual merit.

We will hopefully know very soon.

Regards

[mintor]

SOORY IF IN WRONG PLACE JUST GOT 2003 53 RAV FROM SO CALLED CAR DEARLER IN WARMLEY BIRMINGHAM 2 HOURS DOWN ROAD DUEL MASS FLYWHEEL PACKED UP. AS USUAL HE SAID SOLD NO WARRANTY SO TAKEN TO LOCAL DEALER JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE

[Fujisan]

SOORY IF IN WRONG PLACE JUST GOT 2003 53 RAV FROM SO CALLED CAR DEARLER IN WARMLEY BIRMINGHAM 2 HOURS DOWN ROAD DUEL MASS FLYWHEEL PACKED UP. AS USUAL HE SAID SOLD NO WARRANTY SO TAKEN TO LOCAL DEALER JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE

Heartbreaking! You must have a case again the selling squealer for something! Lost for words now but good luck!

[Parts-King]

SOORY IF IN WRONG PLACE JUST GOT 2003 53 RAV FROM SO CALLED CAR DEARLER IN WARMLEY BIRMINGHAM 2 HOURS DOWN ROAD DUEL MASS FLYWHEEL PACKED UP. AS USUAL HE SAID SOLD NO WARRANTY SO TAKEN TO LOCAL DEALER JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE

It is illegal to sell a car without any form of warranty, despite the fact you see NO WARRANTY IMPLIED OR GIVEN, it is not worth the paper it is written on. Get an estimate from your local dealer, IN WRITING and take it back to the seller. He has to repair, replace or refund so dont take any nonsense off him. Ask him politely how he would like to proceed, either repair the car himself or let your Mr T sort it, either way, the seller must sort it out

Kingo Kingo

[mintor]

I've opened this as a new topic as I would like to hear from anyone who has had the dreaded RAV4 flywheel problem and from anyone who has managed to get it fixed FOC under the extended warranty (flywheel extended warranty 5 years/60k miles).

I own a 2002 RAV4 NRG D4D that recently had it's 60k service at my local Toyota dealers in Peterborough. I had noticed that when the car was standing still/idling the engine appeared to be racing a bit fast (forgive my terminology as I am only a woman and my knowledge of cars is limited to driving) and asked if they would look at this for me. There weren't any noises that I noticed and it didn't appear to effect the driving of the car otherwise I would have taken my car in sooner. Already expecting a hefty bill of nearly £700 for the 60k service, including a new cam belt, I was surprised when they told me that I had a faulty flywheel and absolutely gobsmacked when they quoted £1,800 to repair it.

To add insult to injury they then proceeded to tell me that this was a known fault and Toyota had extended the warranty for this part to 5 years/ 60k miles. My RAV being 5 years 3 months old and having done 60,400 miles, just outside the extended warranty period. I asked when the fault and extended warranty was made public knowledge, only to be told that "it hasn't been as we would get lots of people bringing their cars in when nothing was wrong with them". This statement was later changed to say that as this wasn't a recall they didn't have instruction/ permission from Toyota to notify their customers.

Having purchased the car from new at a cost of £18,000, having regular 10k services costings hundreds of pounds more over the five years. I feel completely ****** off at the way I have been treated by Toyota.

My dealer has raised this with Toyota but I'm being told that I will have to pay for the car to be stripped down so that Toyota can inspect the flywheel and that there are still no guarantees that they will agree to repair it free of charge. Having read some of the other posts on this forum, they can easily turn around and blame the fault on something else. I wouldn't have a clue if what they said could be proved or not and then be left with yet another bill.

My manager also has a RAV4 and broke down on the motorway due to a faulty flywheel. She had it repaired by her local garage as she was unaware of the known fault and has since sent her repair bills off to Toyota to see if there is any chance of reimbursement from them. I don't hold out much hope for her but it's worth a try.

I understand that cars are only recalled if the fault is a safety issue. If breaking down on the motorway or anywhere for that matter isn't a safey issue then I don't know what is.

I would like to gather as much evidence as possible as to how many cars have been effected and as to whether Toyota have coughed up or not. Depending on the results, I can then decide what course of action to take, whether it be Watchdog, the national press or just dumping a load of manure in the entrance of the showroom (that's how I feel at this precise moment). Please include details of the RAV model and year and any other information that you think would be helpful. Many thanks.

I ADD DREADED FLYWHEEL FAIL 2HOURS AFTER GOOD MY RAV DEALER SAID NO WARRANTY AFTER TELLING ME 3 MONTHS. MINE IS 53 2003 TOYOTA SAID 60000 MILES SO COST 1700 POUND FLYWHEEL CLUTCH KIT LABOUR 300 POUND VAT 610 FOR FLYWHEEL 83 CLUTCH PLATE 95 PRESSURE PLATE ALL AFTER ABOUT 2 HOUR FROM BUYING RAV

[Hoovie]

so your car failed 2 hours after buying it from a Toyota Dealer and they are saying they will not fix?? There is no way a major component failing in a car after 2 hours is not covered by a suitable retail sales laws!

FWIW, I have bought just two Toyotas, both used and both from main dealers - one in 1995, one in 2006 and both times I had a 30 day satisfaction period at which time I could reject or swap the car. If it is a Toyota dealer (which I have to assume not, given what has happened), that is one tact to take.

[chatman]

so your car failed 2 hours after buying it from a Toyota Dealer and they are saying they will not fix?? There is no way a major component failing in a car after 2 hours is not covered by a suitable retail sales laws!

FWIW, I have bought just two Toyotas, both used and both from main dealers - one in 1995, one in 2006 and both times I had a 30 day satisfaction period at which time I could reject or swap the car. If it is a Toyota dealer (which I have to assume not, given what has happened), that is one tact to take.

Flywheels do not just GO...or suddenly give up the will to live!!!!!!!!!!!!

All the failures or problems members have mentioned on here with flywheels.... have been over a amount of time and symptoms causing this failure...

Your saying that 2 hours down the road the flywheel failed...This looks like the dealer already knew that this would fail and sold you a defected unsafe RAV..they cant tell you no warranty void as you just brought the RAV....

[gwentphil]

XT3

2004

49000 miles

DMF fault confirmed by local dealer, awaiting reply off Toyota GB - will keep you all informed.........

Will be absolutely gutted if Toyota will not fix this FOC as I can't afford the repairs!! Paid nearly 20 grand for a rav and 49000 miles later could be just a lump of worthless metal and rubber!!!!

[anchorman]

XT3

2004

49000 miles

DMF fault confirmed by local dealer, awaiting reply off Toyota GB - will keep you all informed.........

Will be absolutely gutted if Toyota will not fix this FOC as I can't afford the repairs!! Paid nearly 20 grand for a rav and 49000 miles later could be just a lump of worthless metal and rubber!!!!

Going off most recent reports you should be OK with that.

Good luck

[local hero]

XT3

2004

49000 miles

DMF fault confirmed by local dealer, awaiting reply off Toyota GB - will keep you all informed.........

Will be absolutely gutted if Toyota will not fix this FOC as I can't afford the repairs!! Paid nearly 20 grand for a rav and 49000 miles later could be just a lump of worthless metal and rubber!!!!

Going off most recent reports you should be OK with that.

Good luck

I don't know how we do this, but as a toyota owners club with 60,000 members worldwide, should we be letting these poor individuals fight their cases on their own? can we not at least let Mr T, know of our displeasure at the way these people are being treated, with very little support from the dealers and each case being treated differently at the whim of Mr T..THIS IS A KNOWN FAULT AFTER ALL

[three5]

XT3

2004

49000 miles

DMF fault confirmed by local dealer, awaiting reply off Toyota GB - will keep you all informed.........

Will be absolutely gutted if Toyota will not fix this FOC as I can't afford the repairs!! Paid nearly 20 grand for a rav and 49000 miles later could be just a lump of worthless metal and rubber!!!!

Going off most recent reports you should be OK with that.

Good luck

I don't know how we do this, but as a toyota owners club with 60,000 members worldwide, should we be letting these poor individuals fight their cases on their own? can we not at least let Mr T, know of our displeasure at the way these people are being treated, with very little support from the dealers and each case being treated differently at the whim of Mr T..THIS IS A KNOWN FAULT AFTER ALL

Guys - I suspect that this is just what Anchorman is doing in his own way. Toyota will be looking for a way out of this problem that retrieves their reputation without leaving them looking like complete pi****ks. It's likely that dealers are just as uncomfortable with the situation as we are, in the end their sales suffer AND don't forget that the D4D engine is in other vehicles besides the RAV. I'm not an apologist for Mr T - I've only recently bought an XT5 D4D ( 1500m on clock now )so am at least as interested in the outcome as everyone else particularly as I'm likely to take 8 or 9 years to do 60k miles. I'm confident that Anchorman will get a reply from Toyota PR and that they are working very hard to understand the cause of the problem and get a fix that dosen't break the ( their ) bank. When I first started work as an engineering apprentice best part of 50 years ago, I was told that an engineer was a guy who could do for a shilling what anyone could do for a pound. Toyota are likely to have some very good people on this problem but gathering the data, analysing it and coming up with a solution won't happen overnight. Meanwhile we need them to act sensibly on individual cases. We are likely to get better results by being polite but firm rather than turning the table over. I'll just going to put this soapbox away in the garage.............

Best regards

Chris

[Lomond Lad]

XT3

2004

49000 miles

DMF fault confirmed by local dealer, awaiting reply off Toyota GB - will keep you all informed.........

Will be absolutely gutted if Toyota will not fix this FOC as I can't afford the repairs!! Paid nearly 20 grand for a rav and 49000 miles later could be just a lump of worthless metal and rubber!!!!

Good luck!

Rav4 VX 2003 D4D

39,500 miles

Just last month my DMF went and I paid £500 in labour and Toyota picked up the bill for parts. The garage said to me that Toyota's new stance is that they will not pay labour on vehicles with the modified DMF but will pay for parts only and take each case on an individual basis. Bit of a gutter to say the least although better than paying full whack!

I have a full service history which they wanted to know about although not done by a Toyota franchise...I wonder how this effected their decision on making me pay the labour?!

[anchorman]

XT3

2004

49000 miles

DMF fault confirmed by local dealer, awaiting reply off Toyota GB - will keep you all informed.........

Will be absolutely gutted if Toyota will not fix this FOC as I can't afford the repairs!! Paid nearly 20 grand for a rav and 49000 miles later could be just a lump of worthless metal and rubber!!!!

Going off most recent reports you should be OK with that.

Good luck

I don't know how we do this, but as a toyota owners club with 60,000 members worldwide, should we be letting these poor individuals fight their cases on their own? can we not at least let Mr T, know of our displeasure at the way these people are being treated, with very little support from the dealers and each case being treated differently at the whim of Mr T..THIS IS A KNOWN FAULT AFTER ALL

Guys - I suspect that this is just what Anchorman is doing in his own way. Toyota will be looking for a way out of this problem that retrieves their reputation without leaving them looking like complete pi****ks. It's likely that dealers are just as uncomfortable with the situation as we are, in the end their sales suffer AND don't forget that the D4D engine is in other vehicles besides the RAV. I'm not an apologist for Mr T - I've only recently bought an XT5 D4D ( 1500m on clock now )so am at least as interested in the outcome as everyone else particularly as I'm likely to take 8 or 9 years to do 60k miles. I'm confident that Anchorman will get a reply from Toyota PR and that they are working very hard to understand the cause of the problem and get a fix that dosen't break the ( their ) bank. When I first started work as an engineering apprentice best part of 50 years ago, I was told that an engineer was a guy who could do for a shilling what anyone could do for a pound. Toyota are likely to have some very good people on this problem but gathering the data, analysing it and coming up with a solution won't happen overnight. Meanwhile we need them to act sensibly on individual cases. We are likely to get better results by being polite but firm rather than turning the table over. I'll just going to put this soapbox away in the garage.............

Best regards

Chris

Chris

Thanks - I've already had the reply as outlined in the link fixed at the top of the RAV4 page. I know this is an emotive subject to anyone concerned and I don't even know yet if mine will eventually be effected. However, as I've pointed out before we cannot get away from the DMFs but thier reliability will hopefully improve. Now as for what Toyota are obliged to underwrite, well it is no more than 3 years or 60k but they have been doing more in some cases and as to whether or not we think its fair or not is a matter of opinion. I can tell you that other brands like Mini and Ford and Vauxhall have DMFs that are certainly no better than ours and the policy is clear - if it fails outside of warranty it is tough. There was an extended warranty and I was given to understand from Mr T that it expired last year. The advice was that if your DMF failed you should contact them and in some cases they have paid some of the claim and in others they have paid all. There seems to be a definitive cut off of 60k (and to be fair, how long can we expect them to give a warranty for) but gwentphils is 49k which is where my comment came from. I don't know what they will say but fingers crossed they will be sympathetic or considerate or loyal - whatever we want to call it.

Personally I would rather have a DMF with a Toyota connected to it then a Ford,Vauxhall, BMW etc etc. We have to accept that a DMF is part of the territory if we run a modern vehicle with a direct injection common rail diesel that would prematurely wreck the transmission without it. We can only hope that they evolve into something thoroughly reliable in the foreseeable future.

IMHO

[gwentphil]

XT3

2004

49000 miles

DMF fault confirmed by local dealer, awaiting reply off Toyota GB - will keep you all informed.........

Will be absolutely gutted if Toyota will not fix this FOC as I can't afford the repairs!! Paid nearly 20 grand for a rav and 49000 miles later could be just a lump of worthless metal and rubber!!!!

Going off most recent reports you should be OK with that.

Good luck

I don't know how we do this, but as a toyota owners club with 60,000 members worldwide, should we be letting these poor individuals fight their cases on their own? can we not at least let Mr T, know of our displeasure at the way these people are being treated, with very little support from the dealers and each case being treated differently at the whim of Mr T..THIS IS A KNOWN FAULT AFTER ALL

Guys - I suspect that this is just what Anchorman is doing in his own way. Toyota will be looking for a way out of this problem that retrieves their reputation without leaving them looking like complete pi****ks. It's likely that dealers are just as uncomfortable with the situation as we are, in the end their sales suffer AND don't forget that the D4D engine is in other vehicles besides the RAV. I'm not an apologist for Mr T - I've only recently bought an XT5 D4D ( 1500m on clock now )so am at least as interested in the outcome as everyone else particularly as I'm likely to take 8 or 9 years to do 60k miles. I'm confident that Anchorman will get a reply from Toyota PR and that they are working very hard to understand the cause of the problem and get a fix that dosen't break the ( their ) bank. When I first started work as an engineering apprentice best part of 50 years ago, I was told that an engineer was a guy who could do for a shilling what anyone could do for a pound. Toyota are likely to have some very good people on this problem but gathering the data, analysing it and coming up with a solution won't happen overnight. Meanwhile we need them to act sensibly on individual cases. We are likely to get better results by being polite but firm rather than turning the table over. I'll just going to put this soapbox away in the garage.............

Best regards

Chris

Chris

Thanks - I've already had the reply as outlined in the link fixed at the top of the RAV4 page. I know this is an emotive subject to anyone concerned and I don't even know yet if mine will eventually be effected. However, as I've pointed out before we cannot get away from the DMFs but thier reliability will hopefully improve. Now as for what Toyota are obliged to underwrite, well it is no more than 3 years or 60k but they have been doing more in some cases and as to whether or not we think its fair or not is a matter of opinion. I can tell you that other brands like Mini and Ford and Vauxhall have DMFs that are certainly no better than ours and the policy is clear - if it fails outside of warranty it is tough. There was an extended warranty and I was given to understand from Mr T that it expired last year. The advice was that if your DMF failed you should contact them and in some cases they have paid some of the claim and in others they have paid all. There seems to be a definitive cut off of 60k (and to be fair, how long can we expect them to give a warranty for) but gwentphils is 49k which is where my comment came from. I don't know what they will say but fingers crossed they will be sympathetic or considerate or loyal - whatever we want to call it.

Personally I would rather have a DMF with a Toyota connected to it then a Ford,Vauxhall, BMW etc etc. We have to accept that a DMF is part of the territory if we run a modern vehicle with a direct injection common rail diesel that would prematurely wreck the transmission without it. We can only hope that they evolve into something thoroughly reliable in the foreseeable future.

IMHO

Still no communication from my dealer as of yet, so it will be yet another sleepless night! As well as the flywheel issue my rav sustained about £4/5k worth of damage three weeks ago when some young kid ran into the back of it whilst it was parked outside my house - this is due to go into Mr T for the bodywork repairs on wednesday but i'm seriously considering postponing the work until Toyota give me an answer. The way i'm feeling at the moment I don't want to give them lucrative insurance work if they won't deal with my flywheel.

You could say i've a crappy couple of weeks but at least no-one was hurt in the bump and i'm trying to keep a smile on my face! I've just bought a lottery ticket - what d'you reckon my chances are??????