Rav 4.3 Rear Bumper Question (us V6 Model)

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Although I live in the UK currently my RAV4 lives with my future wife in the US.

The US RAVs don't have rear foglights and it's an omission that I think I'd like to correct if possible, so I have some questions:

How are the rear foglights controlled on the European RAVs?

What are anyone's thoughts on the possibility of switching the rear bumper on my US RAV with those of the European model that doesn't have the spare wheel on the back (no number plate indent on the rear bumper), and adding the foglights, wiring and switches?

Is this going to be a task that I'm going to regret?!

Any photographs of controls, bumper fixings etc. could be useful.

[Fujisan]

How are the rear foglights controlled on the European RAVs?

Is this going to be a task that I'm going to regret?!

Welcome to the TOC, Lazlo!

I can tell you that the rear foglights are controlled by a combination switch with the front fog lights on the light control stalk.

So I guess it would take a bit of jiggery-pokery to do it, if you wanted to use orginal equip.

I was just going to ask you about the V6 but all has been explained.

Good luck

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Welcome to the TOC, Lazlo!

Thank you.

I can tell you that the rear foglights are controlled by a combination switch with the front fog lights on the light control stalk.

So I guess it would take a bit of jiggery-pokery to do it, if you wanted to use orginal equip.

My preference is to use original equipment. Otherwise I might as well buy an aftermarket foglight or two and mount them under the rear bumper. No, I want it to look as stock as possible.

Another question: do the rear foglights auto cancel when the ignition is switched off? Or is the switch just a simple on/off affair?

I was just going to ask you about the V6 but all has been explained.

:)

[Fujisan]

Another question: do the rear foglights auto cancel when the ignition is switched off? Or is the switch just a simple on/off affair?

Too be honest, I don't honestly know. Luckily I've only had to use them a couple of times and I've always switched them off when the fog cleared, before the end of the journey.

Sure someone will tell you today but if they don't, I'll have a little play and let you know.

[sywy]

Welcome to TOC Lazlo.

I can't remember exactly how the fogs work either, but I think the rears will cancel when you switch the headlights of.

[Parts-King]

The fogs are on a manual swith and you have to manually switch them off, thats why you see those :censor: :censor: :censor: :censor: s running around with rear fogs on days after a foggy spell. I fear it could turn into a big job, the switch would be different for LHD and so may not fit the steering column (its on the headlight stalk) then the lamps would have to be changed/modified. I think you might regret it, unless you wire it via a seperate switch, hope this helps

KIngo

[Lazlo Woodbine]

The fogs are on a manual swith and you have to manually switch them off, thats why you see those :censor: :censor: :censor: :censor: s running around with rear fogs on days after a foggy spell.

Thanks for the info, and I hate those fools too. But I think I'd rather have them then the recent experience of driving in the US in thick fog where *nobody* had rear foglights and it was impossible to see cars on the road in front.

I fear it could turn into a big job, the switch would be different for LHD and so may not fit the steering column (its on the headlight stalk) then the lamps would have to be changed/modified.

Why would the switch be different for LHD?

Why would the lamps need modifying? And which lamps are you referring to?

I think you might regret it, unless you wire it via a seperate switch, hope this helps

Wiring via a separate switch is certainly a possibility, and of course there is a necessity for some indication that the lights are on anyway, which would have to be wired in.

Could someone provide images of the switch in and/or out of situ?

[shcm]

Hello Lazlo and welcome.

Just a thought - Federal and European lighting regulations are different. It's my understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that there is no requirement in the US for rear fog lamps (unlike Europe) and so there are no Federal regs covering them.

However, I think it can vary from state to state. This one for Oregon:

Oregan Auto Lighting Regs

says that the rear fogs lamps have to be at the same height as the tail lamps - so the European 4.3 ones would be technically illegal there.

You may not be too bothered about the legality of the thing, which is fine, just don't want you getting a ticket from an over zealous "law enforcement agent" when your main concern is safety. You would hope they would see the benefit though!

Life would be so much simpler if European and US regs and standards were the same....................

Cheers

[anchorman]

Hi and welcome to the club.

I don't want to contradict Kingo but the rear fogs definitely self cancel with the side lights (not the ignition). The switch initially turns on the front fogs and then is spring loaded to the rears - they revert to the fronts only position at rest.

From memory the US indicators are on the left so the switch should fit.

The paint is identical in colour although it has a different name.

Now here comes your big problem. I'm fairly sure the US RAV bumper has a longer return to the rear wheel arch to accomodate the longer body length. Look at the 2 photos;

This is a US spec RAV

and this is mine.....

However, I wonder if you could utilise the reflector housing on yours and find something to fit?

You should consider exporting a LHD T180 to the USA. You will get more publicity than Paris Hilton!

Good luck!

[Parts-King]

Why would the switch be different for LHD?

Why would the lamps need modifying? And which lamps are you referring to?

The UK switch is a stalk on the steering column, headlamp on the left, wipers on the right, I would assume the opposite applys to LHD? maybe not, I'm not sure. Also the rear tail lights on your USA car dont have the fog light bulb holder fitted, so you would have to modify the lamp, plus, wiring all this up from the switch. Easier to fit a seperate switch and seperate lamps

Kingo

[Parts-King]

I don't want to contradict Kingo but the rear fogs definitely self cancel with the side lights (not the ignition). The switch initially turns on the front fogs and then is spring loaded to the rears - they revert to the fronts only position at rest.

I have driven hundreds of Toyota's over the years, and I never noticed that the switch does indeed switch off the rear fogs when you turn the lights off, I just checked my Auris and it does work like that (I wonder when that was introduced?) I need to eat some humble pie, oops, sorry about that

However I sure the rear lights wont have any holders to fit a bulb into, and even if the switch does fit, it is unlikely to have the necessary wiring from the switch to the lamp, maybe, lol

Kingo

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Why would the switch be different for LHD?

Why would the lamps need modifying? And which lamps are you referring to?

The UK switch is a stalk on the steering column, headlamp on the left, wipers on the right, I would assume the opposite applys to LHD? maybe not, I'm not sure.

There's no good reason why it wouldn't be exactly the same on a LHD. And, as far as I can recall, it is.

Also the rear tail lights on your USA car dont have the fog light bulb holder fitted,

Not a single 3rd generation RAV4 does, neither Europe nor the US. The foglights are mounted separately in the bumper.

so you would have to modify the lamp,

No, I wouldn't.

plus, wiring all this up from the switch. Easier to fit a seperate switch and seperate lamps

Kingo

The lamps are separate on the UK models, and I really don't mind having to have a go at wiring something up with regards to the switch.

I think that there may be another issue, that cannot be overcome though.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Hi and welcome to the club.

I don't want to contradict Kingo but the rear fogs definitely self cancel with the side lights (not the ignition). The switch initially turns on the front fogs and then is spring loaded to the rears - they revert to the fronts only position at rest.

From memory the US indicators are on the left so the switch should fit.

The paint is identical in colour although it has a different name.

Not too worried about paint, as I can just get any necessary paintwork done there.

Now here comes your big problem. I'm fairly sure the US RAV bumper has a longer return to the rear wheel arch to accomodate the longer body length. Look at the 2 photos;

It looks like you might be right, which would kill the bumper idea stone dead. (Save a few quid though, so maybe it's not all bad!)

However, I wonder if you could utilise the reflector housing on yours and find something to fit?

Other thoughts were to place either a single foglight midbumper like the Nissan Qashqai etc, or to place rotate two foglights into the bumper above the reflector.

You should consider exporting a LHD T180 to the USA. You will get more publicity than Paris Hilton!

Would love to have a diesel, but might find it a big sluggish after the 3.5L V6! And I think I'd miss the auto box too.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

However I sure the rear lights wont have any holders to fit a bulb into,

As I already pointed out, the RAV 4.3 taillights don't include foglights on ANY model. They are completely separate within the bumper.

and even if the switch does fit, it is unlikely to have the necessary wiring from the switch to the lamp, maybe, lol

I should have no problem with a little auto wiring.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Hello Lazlo and welcome.

Thanks!

Just a thought - Federal and European lighting regulations are different. It's my understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that there is no requirement in the US for rear fog lamps (unlike Europe) and so there are no Federal regs covering them.

However, I think it can vary from state to state. This one for Oregon:

I'd already thought of this. There is nothing in the Florida legal code that refers to rear fog lights.

Life would be so much simpler if European and US regs and standards were the same....................

Cheers

Oh yes! Then my RAV could have the same headlamps as the European RAV4 and the rear foglights. It would also have side indicators, which are missing on the North American models. It would also mean that all those stupid American cars without a single rear red light which provides both indication and turn signal would disappear and they would all have to have proper amber indicators!

[anchorman]

Would love to have a diesel, but might find it a big sluggish after the 3.5L V6! And I think I'd miss the auto box too.

I take you have never driven a T180 or you might like to reconsider this statement!

Lack of auto box? OK maybe.

Sluggish?, big mistake - even compared to a V6.

[shcm]

Interestingly (or maybe not!), the factory manual fog lamp wiring diagram shows two fog lamp options:

a. 2 fog lamps for "short body"

b. 1 fog lamp for "long body"

So then I wondered maybe there is a market area with the long body, that has a compatible rear bumper with a single fog lamp "cut out". (very unlikely I expect).

However, looking at the rear fog lamp removal section of the manual, the single lamp option appears to be a "screw on, attached to the rear door job" similar to those fitted to 4.2 UK models.

Maybe you want two lamps anyway.................so looks like Anchorman's suggestion with the reflectors is still your best option so far.

Cheers

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Would love to have a diesel, but might find it a big sluggish after the 3.5L V6! And I think I'd miss the auto box too.

I take you have never driven a T180 or you might like to reconsider this statement!

I haven't, but I have driven turbocharged diesels before, and I know that they are a real pleasure to drive.

Lack of auto box? OK maybe.

Sluggish?, big mistake - even compared to a V6.

Yes, sluggish when compared to the V6. There's nearly 270 bhp coming out of the V6, compared to 'just' shy of 180 in the T180. Even given the fact that the body is a longer wheelbase, and thus heavier, it's got a couple of seconds on the diesel in 0-60 times.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Interestingly (or maybe not!), the factory manual fog lamp wiring diagram shows two fog lamp options:

Where does one get hold of this diagram?

However, looking at the rear fog lamp removal section of the manual, the single lamp option appears to be a "screw on, attached to the rear door job" similar to those fitted to 4.2 UK models.

Interesting, although I can't quite see where you'd fit the lamp.

Maybe you want two lamps anyway.................so looks like Anchorman's suggestion with the reflectors is still your best option so far.

Cheers

The reflectors are probably too slim to do anything with.

I think that maybe placing a flush mount single lamp in the middle of the bumper, might be the easiest solution.

[anchorman]

Would love to have a diesel, but might find it a big sluggish after the 3.5L V6! And I think I'd miss the auto box too.

I take you have never driven a T180 or you might like to reconsider this statement!

I haven't, but I have driven turbocharged diesels before, and I know that they are a real pleasure to drive.

Lack of auto box? OK maybe.

Sluggish?, big mistake - even compared to a V6.

Yes, sluggish when compared to the V6. There's nearly 270 bhp coming out of the V6, compared to 'just' shy of 180 in the T180. Even given the fact that the body is a longer wheelbase, and thus heavier, it's got a couple of seconds on the diesel in 0-60 times.

The real measure of pulling power is torque. The diesel has 296 ft/lbs and the V6 has 246 ft/lbs. The petrol may have a couple of seconds on a test track but on a cross section of roads with the torque, stiffer suspension and shorter body things would be a bit different.

Your gonna have to trust me on this until you have driven one!

[shcm]

Lazlo check your PM

[Lazlo Woodbine]

The real measure of pulling power is torque. The diesel has 296 ft/lbs and the V6 has 246 ft/lbs. The petrol may have a couple of seconds on a test track but on a cross section of roads with the torque, stiffer suspension and shorter body things would be a bit different.

Your gonna have to trust me on this until you have driven one!

I didn't mean to get all "mine's bigger than yours"! Given the choice I'd have bought the diesel over the V6 any day, but that wasn't the choice. It was between the 4 cylinder and the 6 cylinder and, with fairly minimal fuel consumption differences between them, the 6 cylinder won.

[Fujisan]

It was between the 4 cylinder and the 6 cylinder and, with fairly minimal fuel consumption differences between them, the 6 cylinder won.

Just out of interest how many miles per gallon do you get out of the V6? If you don't mind me asking.

[chatman]

It was between the 4 cylinder and the 6 cylinder and, with fairly minimal fuel consumption differences between them, the 6 cylinder won.

Just out of interest how many miles per gallon do you get out of the V6? If you don't mind me asking.

:lol: they did a mpg comparison over on rav4world and the V6 won.....well if you think 20 - 23mpg is good....at UK prices that would be financial suicide....

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Just out of interest how many miles per gallon do you get out of the V6? If you don't mind me asking.

I can only quote you official figures, not having monitored to see what we are getting in real use.

(copied and pasted from Toyota's US website:)

city/highway figures

V6

2WD 19/27

4WD 19/26

(4-cylinder

2WD 21/27

4WD 20/25)

Note these need converting to Imperial gallons:

19 US mpg = 22 mpg

26 US mpg = 31 mpg