Multimode Manual Transmission (mmt)

[rplyons]

Hi there,

I currently own a Citroen C1 Turbodiesel and it's not bad especially with an oil-burner up front!

However the MMT really intrigued me so I went for a test-drive in 1 just to see what it would be like to drive a Petrol with only 2-pedals instead of 3.

The MMT was fantastic, especially when it's only a £500 optional extra - the clutch sensor is very clever and it will automatically engage the clutch when you either release the handbrake or release your foot from the brake, so it's almost like driving a proper auto...but that theory disappears on uphill starts!!

The only thing I was confused about was the Throttle kickdown system on the Gas pedal - it worked, however there was no physicial switch on the Gas pedal itself. I'm a Bus and Coach driver and therefore I drive automatics day in and day out because of the nature of the job, every vehicle I've ever driven has had a physicial switch on the Gas pedal so that if you wanted to simply pull-away on full throttle but normally (i.e. Normal Revs for maximum torque, not maximum power) you just apply fully pressure until you reach the Throttle kickdown rest...simple!

On the Aygo though, I found that if I wanted to pull-away full throttle Without using the Kickdown I had to either use "M" and floor the Gas pedal then change gear myself, or by keeping it in "E" I'd have to Almost go full throttle and hover the Gas pedal just above the floorboard point...and that really annoyed me as you'd expect the drive to be at least relaxing, but I couldn't do that all the time.

Does anyone know if it's possible to have the Gas pedal altered by the garage (etc.) so that there is a Physicial barrier between the Throttle kickdown mode? If that wouldn't be possible, could I simply have the Throttle kickdown disabled? Any and all answers regarding this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Richard

:)

[Jan van de Wouw]

The throttle on the MMT/SensoDrive/2Tronic is actually "Throttle-by-Wire". AFAIK the pedal only operates a

sensor which gives signal to an ECU, which in its turn controls actuators on the clutch, gearshift and throttle.

These systems usually give a "kickdown" when the pedal is moved more than a specified travel withing a

certain (short) period of time. You might try putting "the pedal to the metal" from zero very fast, but my

experience with automatics is very limited and with robotized-boxes is zero, so I'm not sure if this will work.

Another option might be to put a spring on the pedal which increses the pedal-resistance from a certain

point on, but I can imagine the garage not wanting to do such a thing for warranty and/or liability issues...

[rplyons]

Hiya,

Yeah, all of the Gas pedals these days are fly-by-wire technology (including the ones on the Buses and Coaches I drive) but every other automatic I've ever driven has always had that physicial barrier on the Gas pedal for the kickdown so that you don't accidentally use it...but the Aygo just didn't have that, it was just a normal Gas pedal!

I did actually try what you recommended and used the Gas pedal slowly, however the ECU immediately reacted to this and went into kickdown mode - so there is a "switch" (as it were) but there definitely is no physicial barrier to it.

I myself am unaware of how they actually create this physicial barrier on the Gas pedal, however seeing as every other automatic I've ever driven has had it then it must be common technology to use it...so why not on the Aygo? I know it's only a budget car!

Richard

:)

[Jan van de Wouw]

The throttle on the "standard" Aygo certainly isn't drive-by-wire:

you can see the bowden cable sneaking around the engine...

As for the "physical barrier" you describe: as I said I haven't got much

experience with automatics, but with the ones I have I never noticed this barrier.

One automatic I drove was a DeLorean, as I used to have one myself (a manual)

and those don't have this threshold either. Which seems logical to me, because I know

for a fact that the DeLorean (and many other automatics from that era) used a cable

to actuate the throttle and has a microswitch (two actually, but the second one has a

different function) at the throttle-spool to engage the kickdown.

As you might know, most microswitches require very little force to actuate...

If there is any threshold you can feel I would think this is don with some kind of

progressive spring system, or maybe even a switch that DOES require some force to press...

[rplyons]

Yeah I might be moaning about nothing here. Either way, if I got fed-up with it would it be possible to have the kickdown facility removed/disabled?

Richard

:)

[daveyjp]

The smart system kickdown was based on throttle pedal position. The Audi DSG also works via throttle by wire and it will kick down one gear, but it also has a switch under the accelerator so if you really floor it it will kick down once with throttle then as the button is pressed it drops another cog - makes for very rapid progress!

[Jan van de Wouw]

if I got fed-up with it would it be possible to have the kickdown facility removed/disabled?

That's a question I'd ask the dealer. And you might have to push that a bit, as I doubt they

will be able to answer your question instantly: I'd think they'd have to ask their supplier

and I've found dealers to be quite reluctant on doing so for some obscure reason...

[rplyons]

Usually because it requires them to do some work!

Richard

:)

[Doush_CSF]

The only thing I was confused about was the Throttle kickdown system on the Gas pedal - it worked, however there was no physicial switch on the Gas pedal itself. I'm a Bus and Coach driver and therefore I drive automatics day in and day out because of the nature of the job, every vehicle I've ever driven has had a physicial switch on the Gas pedal so that if you wanted to simply pull-away on full throttle but normally (i.e. Normal Revs for maximum torque, not maximum power) you just apply fully pressure until you reach the Throttle kickdown rest...simple!

Dear Richard,

I have the 08 Corolla with the 1.6 petrol & MM-T tranny. I hate it when it comes to the first gear thing but i have to admit i ADORE it's kickdown. When i fully press the pedal, it automatically downshifts 2 gears (if i am in 5th or 4th) and that is in "E" or "Es" mode B) B) .

Doush