04 Avensis Needs New Big End

[fontburn78]

Hi all,

I've been reading loads of posts here and am starting to get a bit worried.

I have a 04 avensis and yestaday it started to display a noise when going 2500+ revs. The car has done 25000 miles, full toyota service history only the last one due in sept has been missed. Inspecting the oil leve show I had barely any left. No light appeared on the dash - When does it appear when the engine grings to a halt.

So sent it to the dealer and had the fright of my life. "Big end number 4 has gone !!!" Now lucly the local dealers is great and they said if I get the service they will replace the big end or it would cost £2000 - £3000.

After reading the posts here it seems this is a huge issue with the VVTi engine in 1.8's. Now burning oil later on is expected but not in a car that has barely ran in. Also I have another 1.8 Verso - am I going to get the same problem ?????

What is the warranty on this part or the engine ??

Although my local toyota have been great I do feel that if this was a safety issue then it would be a recall. As its an expense only situation toyota seem to be ignoring it. Seems an email to Watchdog.

Cheers all.

[marty32]

there is a range of engine numbers that had an oil burning problem ask them to check the engine no and code if its within the specified range they have been replacing the engine block under the warranty

[fontburn78]

Forgive my ignorance but they say they replace the "small engine" is that the same as the engine block ?

Also once this is fixed could the problem come back ?

[marty32]

i believe so and ive also heard the term short motor used as well. if its a brand new block then there shouldnt be a problem apparantly this has been resoleved it was just engines within a certain range that had a problem

[fontburn78]

cheers for the news. Well lets hope the 13th of nov is good day for me. Shame really as I've had 5 toyotas so far and all have been bullet proof.

[Steve84]

I had a short block replacement on my 2001 corolla my dad too had a new short block on his 2001 avensis. From what i was told, it was new block, pistons timing chain, everyting apart the valves, cylinder head.

[moonstone mart]

A warranty short motor will be block, crank,pistons&rings,oil pump and all necessary gaskets.

Timing chains arent replaced.

Mart :)

[newwy]

sorry to hear of your problems.....Just further proof that UK built cars are a pile of crap.

I had a 1992 Corolla Liftback 1.6 Gli. Covered almost 180,000 miles in it, never missed a beat. The auto gearbox and engine was just as smooth as the day it rolled off the factory in JAPAN, and it was 15 years old. The 4A-FE engine was bomb-proof, the car had its original and complete exhaust 15 years on.

The reason for its longevity was it was well made and screwed together in JAPAN... not nailed together in Derby using a pile of crappy French and British parts.

I have just bought a 2000 Avensis Vermont 1.8 VVTi and have no faith in it at all. It leaks when it rains, it mists up, the engine drinks oil and its probably about to blow up, there are rattles and the ride is poor. Lost all faith in Toyota.

Thinking of changing to a BMW 318 after swearing by Toyota for the past 15 years.

I have owned and driven 3 Corollas, a Camry, a Celica...all fantastic and buit in JAPAN. I have also owned a Carina and now the Avensis... pile of muck both of them, and made in Burnaston of course. Nuff said.

[T600]

Will nothing convince you that the problems may not originate in Derby Newwy?

I hear of problems across quite a wide range of Toyotas that you just wouldn't get in the 90s. I'm convinced, as someone else said in another thread, that the problem is due to the need to make cars more economically in order to be competitive, and the constant drive to save weight. I don't believe it has anything to do with where the cars are assembled.

[moonstone mart]

I was told whilst on the 'toyota experience' induction course that the japanese market demands higher/better quality build of car.

This means that the japanese built motors are built to better tolerences than when built in other countries.

I have noticed that the jap built cars do seem to be a higher quality and require less parts/ repairs during services.

Mart :)

[T600]

As an Engineer I find this very hard to believe. I know the !Removed! are innovators, but I don't believe for a second that even they would design two different specs for the same engine; one for the JDM market and one for the Brits who will accept lower standards.

I know the trims are different between UK and JDM and they get some cars that we don't get, or else only get wearing a Lexus badge; but I think it's unlikely that the cause of an engine fault originates in Burnaston.

[newwy]

Hi T600

I am sorry for always going on about the quality etc. And I have nothing against the workers at Burnaston, the trouble is I drove my Corolla for 180,000 miles and had it 10 years...not once did it fail, it really was the most amazing piece of engineering. I know I keep going on about it but how amazing is a car that had done 180,000 miles and was over 15 years old still have its original exhuast ??? I knew the previous owner when I bought the car in 1997, she had had it since a new car in 1992 and didn't have anything done to it. It had 50,000 miles on it in 1997 when I bought it and I covered another 130,000 in the 10 years I had it.

It still looked and drove like a new car until earlier this year when it needed about £500 spending on it (shocks all round, etc) so I reluctantly gave it up. I just can't find anything that feels the same. The Carina had a engine problem so had to go, the Avensis is causing me grief ( leaking boot, drinking oil, misting up, poor ride etc, etc). In the meantime I have bought the wife a Camry. Its 10 years old and is as smooth as a babys bum...sheer quality. Also got a Celica Gen 5 (1990), this is 17 years old and still goes like stink, no rust or problems, on 160,000 miles. The Celica and Camry were of course made in Japan, as was my amazing old Corolla Liftback.

Until recently, I wouldn't have a word said against Toyota as regards reliability. That was taken almost for granted. They just didn,t go wrong.

But now I am trying to find a long term replacement (10 years, just like my old Corolla) but the Avensis just won't last that long, the quality is just not in them.

I know that things are not made to last these days and the quality has slipped on other car makers (Mercedes, VW etc) but I still maintain that Japanese made cars and Japanese components are better than UK/EU like for like.

I would like to buy and own a newer Camry as it is built in Japan, however the newer ones only have a 2.4 liter engine which is a bit too big for me to toodle around town in. So where/what Japanese made Toyota can I get ????.

regards

Dave

[newwy]

Hi again T600

Just noticed what cars you have in the panel on the side of your posts. They are all Japanese made Toyota's !!!

So you wouldn't want a UK car then ?? lol !!!

[newwy]

Moonstone Mart, just noticed that you work at Toyota. Can I ask why you drive a Ford ?? Don't you get a discount for a nice new Toyota ??

Regards

Dave

[T600]

I may be only one car away from agreeing with you Dave, but for now I'm not convinced.

I've had quite a few of the same cars as you it would seem; currently we have a few older Toyotas all built in Japan and a somewhat newer Lexus also built over there. Have no problems at all with them apart from the GT4 which I'm afraid is begininng to show its age, but I can't reall blame it for that. So maybe if I'd bought an Avensis instead of the IS200 I might feel the same way as you currently do.

However, whilst I do think there seems to be some evidence to suggest that there is some kind of reliability issue, I'm in two minds about whether that evidence points to Burnaston or to a general decline in standards. I feel the current emphasis seems to be on reducing weight and price; and that to my mind means less of the over engineering that in my opinion Toyotas of the 90s featured.

PS; wanna buy an IS200? Nice low mileage car built in Japan to very high standards. ;)

[T V O R]

So where/what Japanese made Toyota can I get ????.

newwy, I love your posts! You are so right in what you say

I’m lucky to have a Jap built Yaris so I can confirm what you are saying about quality issues.

The new Yaris is built in Europe but I found out recently that the top of the range version (the 1.8 SR) is Japanese built.

I’m not sure what other Toyotas are made in the land of the rising sun, maybe doing some homework of models and VIN numbers may answer your questions? The dealers don’t seem to know much about where the models are made.

[T600]

Hi again T600

Just noticed what cars you have in the panel on the side of your posts. They are all Japanese made Toyota's !!!

So you wouldn't want a UK car then ?? lol !!!

No! :D

But only because none of them are to my liking; I chose the Lexus because it was rear wheel drive rather than for its Badge or because it was made in Japan.

But nor would I want a German car. The only non-Toyota I've owned in recent years was a Porsche and that was rubbish for reliability and build quality, and only came with a 2 year warranty.

BTW, I'm not saying you're wrong - I don't have any proof that you are; just that I don't see proof that the difference definitely is UK vs Japan.

[T600]

The dealers don’t seem to know much about where the models are made.

Sorry this has gone way off topic, but given the original question was about reliability I think it still has some relevance.

You should be able to tell where the car is made just by looking at it; I currently have a 52 plate Rolla in my garage as g/f's car is at Mr T's. I've just checked and it has a sticker on the windscreen saying it was made in the UK. I'm pretty sure our Jap ones have Made in Japan on their windscreens. Incidentally, I was pleased they gave her another Rolla as a courtesy car as hers is now 13 years old and I figured it was time to think about changing it, but she can't wait to get her old (Japanese) Corolla back; figure that.

[newwy]

T600, thanks for your input. I reckon I just might be living in the past a bit and that you are right in saying that standards are just not the same anymore. I reckon that Toyota's from the 1990's are 'the golden age' of Jap manufacturing and you are probably correct to state that the Toyota's from that age were 'over engineered' (for mainstream mass produced cars). They were certainly many, many times 'better', more reliable than their UK counterparts (Fords, Vauxhall).

The 1992-1997 Corolla had gold-plated electrical connectors (REAL gold) and little things like this DID make a difference. Remember all the electrical problems with Vauxhall supplier AC Delco's electrical parts ??? They were notorius for a time in the mid 90's...why ? because they were crap, using crap parts and scrimping on manufacturing, whereas Toyota were soldering their Corolla's electricals with real gold !!!!! Really, its true.

Thats why our old Toyotas are still going strong.

People want more and more 'toys' on their cars these days and they then want to pay less and less for all the toys.

Just look at the cost of new cars over the past 10 years....they have fallen sharply yet contain ever more complicated things so something has to give and unfortunately it is quality.

This is were I am really exposed for being an old fuddy-duddy, but you know what ? I don't want all the extra toys...I hate electric windows. They almost always gone wrong and frankly whats the point ? The wind up windows in my old Corolla will go on working for the next 100 years.....( afraid the record really is stuck on my old Corolla). CD player, sat-nav, mileage calculator, even air-con, whilst all very nice I did without for 10 years in my old Corolla and she still started everyday, every time.

I would gladly give up the toys in favour of better quality and reliability.

I am seriously thinking of finding an old mid 90's Corolla Liftback again and getting shut of the Avensis.

Remember to wave as I drive past in my supremely relaible old Corolla (with 190,000 miles on the clock) as you lift the bonnet on your Avensis VVTi to see that the engine has seized after 40,000 miles or the steering rack disintegrates in your hands.!! ha, ha ....lol

The car in front is a (mid 1990's) TOYOTA !!!!

Best regards

Dave

[T600]

I completely agree Dave; I remember and still quote the gold contacts in the 92-97 Rolla. I think when they designed it, someone at Toyota said we're going to make the most reliable car ever; it needn't be the best car ever made, but it's going to establish us as the most reliable manufacturer in the world and we'll live off that for years.

Unfortunately, I'm one of the people who wants all the toys and technology and yet I know they're just more things to go wrong. Unfortunately Toyota can't sell us the basic stuff any more because most of us want the gadgets to keep up with our neighbours and colleagues. Earlier this year I had a GS Hybrid for a day when my car was being serviced, and I want one badly, even though I know it's the best part of two tonnes of technology waiting to go wrong.

Anyway, returning to the original theme of this thread, I hope the OP gets his car sorted. Whilst I feel there has been a decline in standards, I still think Toyota quality is generally very good, and they should uphold their reputation by putting right any problems that do occur - especially on a car with only 25K on the clock.

[Black Knight]

Newwy, you may want to duck over and seach around the Celica forums since they also have Oil consumption issues on the 1ZZ engines built in JAPAN which would suggest something other than shoddy British "workmanship"

[moonstone mart]

Moonstone Mart, just noticed that you work at Toyota. Can I ask why you drive a Ford ?? Don't you get a discount for a nice new Toyota ??

Regards

Dave

I work for a dealership, doesnt mean i have to drive a Toyota newwy :D

And im sure the sales manager wouldnt do me a good enough deal on a new car for me to want a new Toyota really.

Im happy with the cars i have at the moment so dont really see the need to go into debt for a car :)

Mart

[newwy]

Good point Mart, I have never and will never go into debt for a car. Thats why I drive old Toyota's...lol

I wasn't aware of a problem with the Celica engine burning oil Black Knight but I will check it out. The VVTi engine range was/is a problem child for Toyota, whether built in Japan or UK. However the Jap Celica's don't leak and bits of trim don't fall off.

Glad you remember the gold contacts too T600. I wish they made them like that again.

Dave (1990's Toyota man)

[moonstone mart]

Not had any probs with celica burning oil yet as its mainly corolla/avensis VVTi and recently rav4/avensis/auris Diesels :(

The older toyotas do seem to just keep running forever and the newer cars are built to 'last for a few years' as it were.

We have a few older cars in at work that the older guys get serviced every year regardless of mileage (H/J/K registered)

These cars are really good quality, only ever needing the usual service parts (oil/filters etc) and possibly tyres if they start to crack etc.

Mart

[Black Knight]

From the celica forum on page 1 at the moment

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71014