No Spare Wheel ?

[llith]

Decided to go on my weekend trek with the dog this afternoon .Living in such a beautiful area spoilt for choice, coastal walk, mountain walk or forest walk. Decided on the forest as it was windy and overcast , made the 6 mile drive in the RAV on the B road and parked up in the usual lay by .As I was unloading my rucksack this black Golf GTi pulled up driven by a lad in his twenties with his girlfriend .He came out of the car and was looking at the front wheel , I asked if everything was ok and he said that he had hit a boulder , hidden by some leaves ,on a corner .His low profile tyre had an inch long gash in the side wall. and was well and truly buggered.

Being the good Samaritan that I am, I offered to help with his spare , to which he replied I have no spare only a spray thing to fill a punctured tyre , useless on a tyre with a one inch gash .He got on the phone to a few of his mates and 15 minutes later one of them arrived in his Vauxhall Astra VXR with a spare on a dented alloy and said jack it up. I have no jack he replied ,his friend then left us saying had to take his mother shopping or something like that.

I then offered the jack off my RAV and got it from under the seat , 25000 miles and unused . He then started to jack his car up and I asked for his wheel brace , to which he replied I don’t have one only the unlocking wheel nut. I went to get my brace from the boot and yes , guess what it would not fit his wheel nuts. My next question ,are you a member of the RAC/AA , his answer ,no.

So with his car jacked up , spare wheel and no fitting wheel brace another phone call this time to a tyre company .By this time the dog needed to be taken for a walk and I said that I needed to go .He asked if I could leave the jack until he sorted it out and I agreed because he looked genuine and we decided where he would hide the jack for my return.

Two hours later I returned , no sign of the Golf and I retrieved my jack from the hiding place.

Moral of the story

For me : I will never buy a car without a spare wheel

For 4.3 RAV drivers without a spare wheel : Make sure you have an action plan in the event of this happening to you .

Regards

Llith

[jock1]

Decided to go on my weekend trek with the dog this afternoon .Living in such a beautiful area spoilt for choice, coastal walk, mountain walk or forest walk. Decided on the forest as it was windy and overcast , made the 6 mile drive in the RAV on the B road and parked up in the usual lay by .As I was unloading my rucksack this black Golf GTi pulled up driven by a lad in his twenties with his girlfriend .He came out of the car and was looking at the front wheel , I asked if everything was ok and he said that he had hit a boulder , hidden by some leaves ,on a corner .His low profile tyre had an inch long gash in the side wall. and was well and truly buggered.

Being the good Samaritan that I am, I offered to help with his spare , to which he replied I have no spare only a spray thing to fill a punctured tyre , useless on a tyre with a one inch gash .He got on the phone to a few of his mates and 15 minutes later one of them arrived in his Vauxhall Astra VXR with a spare on a dented alloy and said jack it up. I have no jack he replied ,his friend then left us saying had to take his mother shopping or something like that.

I then offered the jack off my RAV and got it from under the seat , 25000 miles and unused . He then started to jack his car up and I asked for his wheel brace , to which he replied I don’t have one only the unlocking wheel nut. I went to get my brace from the boot and yes , guess what it would not fit his wheel nuts. My next question ,are you a member of the RAC/AA , his answer ,no.

So with his car jacked up , spare wheel and no fitting wheel brace another phone call this time to a tyre company .By this time the dog needed to be taken for a walk and I said that I needed to go .He asked if I could leave the jack until he sorted it out and I agreed because he looked genuine and we decided where he would hide the jack for my return.

Two hours later I returned , no sign of the Golf and I retrieved my jack from the hiding place.

Moral of the story

For me : I will never buy a car without a spare wheel

For 4.3 RAV drivers without a spare wheel : Make sure you have an action plan in the event of this happening to you .

Regards

Llith

Couldnt agree more.I have a 4.3 XTR.Was dubious about the no spare situation so I carry a full size alloy spare in the boot if am going far.I love the car but I think manufactures are making a mistake with this move to no spare. The spare carried in the boot is !Removed! inconvenoent but what price peace of mind?? I think perhaps they think that many females use 4x4's and it's unlikely that they would be able to change a bigger wheel,surely though some one else would be able to do it for them,AA,RAC.or Green fFag.I think that sales are lost because of people's understandable caution

[Fujisan]

That was very kind and trusting act Llith

The more I think about this, the more I really would need a space saver has the absolute minimum.

Unfortunately more and more manufacturers think run-flats and a can of gunk is the way to go :(

[Steve@Aberdeen]

With my previous Freelander, which I needed to actually take off-road for my work, I had a can of gunk as well as the spare. The spare was my primary option but:

a) A simple puncture in a storm or blizzard - the gunk means less time getting cold and wet.

b) A second puncture - they're quite rare nowadays and if I'm in a situation where I get one means there could be a greater chance of another.

I rarely go in such out of the way places nowadays so my Rav4 just has the spare.

[dave.m]

Think if I had a spareless 4.3, I would buy an extra wheel and if possible modify the under cover boot area

(does it go right across to the wheel arch ? ) Have the wheel standing upright vertically, to one side Range

Rover style with a cover on. If its possible sink the wheel down a bit by modifying the boot floor cover ?

[anchorman]

No it doesn't

I must admit I thought it did but I think it might have been Jock that put me right on that one.

This is the extent of the well;

Just up to the drive shaft and suspension arm tunnel.

Now on the US models that are a foot longer I reckon you are in with a shout on that one as the extra length is in the overhang of the rear wheels but it is not an option for us. So, if there is a solution, the only one I can come up with is a spacesaver and a modified boot floor cover that would be raised by about 4" (100mm). This would get you home and give the cleaner appearance of the "wheel less" back door.

[rav man]

Toyota and Honda (appologies for swearing) i believe both use 5 X 113.4 PCD for their wheels (On 5 stud cars), so in theory if you can locate a space saver from one of these, it should fit. Rich.

[DRU2C]

Toyota and Honda (appologies for swearing) i believe both use 5 X 113.4 PCD for their wheels (On 5 stud cars), so in theory if you can locate a space saver from one of these, it should fit. Rich.

Cheers rav man. I’m sure that like many others I feel slightly uncomfortable relying on the tin of “gunk” to ensure that a flat on my XT-R is repaired efficiently. I personally feel that a spacesaver would be the ideal compromise in not taking up too much space but also being a guaranteed “get you home” solution. When I contacted my local dealer about a suitable spacesaver they didn’t want to know and suggested a full size alloy was the only option. If I try to source a spacesaver is there anything else I need to specify over and above “5 X 113.4 PCD”.

[sywy]

For us T180 owners, we do not have a 'can of gunk' as our tyres are designed so that they can be run on, when flat. The ride may not be as comfortable as you are used to though. I drove my RAV for about 40-50 miles with, apparently, a 2 inch gash in the tyre with no ill effect. This is of course on a tarmac'ed road, and not off roading. Not sure how it would do in such a situation. I have no problems with run flats themselves, it the cost and the limitted availabilty and also the time needed to replace them that I'm not happy with.

BTW, my last car, a Mazda RX8, had a 'can of gunk'no instead of a spare.My wife's current car, VW Touran, is also the same - no spare.

[anchorman]

Toyota and Honda (appologies for swearing) i believe both use 5 X 113.4 PCD for their wheels (On 5 stud cars), so in theory if you can locate a space saver from one of these, it should fit. Rich.

Cheers rav man. I’m sure that like many others I feel slightly uncomfortable relying on the tin of “gunk” to ensure that a flat on my XT-R is repaired efficiently. I personally feel that a spacesaver would be the ideal compromise in not taking up too much space but also being a guaranteed “get you home” solution. When I contacted my local dealer about a suitable spacesaver they didn’t want to know and suggested a full size alloy was the only option. If I try to source a spacesaver is there anything else I need to specify over and above “5 X 113.4 PCD”.

PCD refers to Pitch Circle Diameter and means that a wheel with a 5 stud 113.4 PCD will fit. However it needs to have a similar rolling radius to the ones fitted to the RAV so I would plumb for the one from the H**da. That is likely to be expensive and maybe you can order a similar tyre and wheel from a wheel or tyre specialist. Maybe rav man has gone into this a bit more so we should wait for his reply. However, if you do get one and fashion a suitable storage space in the boot I'm sure there would be lots of grateful owners that would like to see it on here.

[cliffg]

Decided to go on my weekend trek with the dog this afternoon .Living in such a beautiful area spoilt for choice, coastal walk, mountain walk or forest walk. Decided on the forest as it was windy and overcast , made the 6 mile drive in the RAV on the B road and parked up in the usual lay by .As I was unloading my rucksack this black Golf GTi pulled up driven by a lad in his twenties with his girlfriend .He came out of the car and was looking at the front wheel , I asked if everything was ok and he said that he had hit a boulder , hidden by some leaves ,on a corner .His low profile tyre had an inch long gash in the side wall. and was well and truly buggered.

Being the good Samaritan that I am, I offered to help with his spare , to which he replied I have no spare only a spray thing to fill a punctured tyre , useless on a tyre with a one inch gash .He got on the phone to a few of his mates and 15 minutes later one of them arrived in his Vauxhall Astra VXR with a spare on a dented alloy and said jack it up. I have no jack he replied ,his friend then left us saying had to take his mother shopping or something like that.

I then offered the jack off my RAV and got it from under the seat , 25000 miles and unused . He then started to jack his car up and I asked for his wheel brace , to which he replied I don’t have one only the unlocking wheel nut. I went to get my brace from the boot and yes , guess what it would not fit his wheel nuts. My next question ,are you a member of the RAC/AA , his answer ,no.

So with his car jacked up , spare wheel and no fitting wheel brace another phone call this time to a tyre company .By this time the dog needed to be taken for a walk and I said that I needed to go .He asked if I could leave the jack until he sorted it out and I agreed because he looked genuine and we decided where he would hide the jack for my return.

Two hours later I returned , no sign of the Golf and I retrieved my jack from the hiding place.

Moral of the story

For me : I will never buy a car without a spare wheel

For 4.3 RAV drivers without a spare wheel : Make sure you have an action plan in the event of this happening to you .

Regards

Llith

I too have concerns on having no spare although i have had cars in the past with no spare. I would also like to purchase a space saver so any comments on what size etc to buy would be very welcome

[anchorman]

Just a cautionary note for anybody that does have spare wheel. Yesterday I chnaged the rear pads on a 52 plate 4.2 VVTi with around 70k on the clock.

It took me around 20 minutes to get the wheel of because the alloy wheel had grown onto the hub. The way I eventually got it off was a liberal aamount of persuasion with a 14 pound sledge hammer with a piece of wood against the inside of the tyre.

Then I decided that it might be prudent to have a look at the spare wheel. The owner had used a small padlock on the cover which had completely siezed up and had to be cut off. When I eventually got in there the pressure on the unused spare was 11 psi.

This car has been dealer serviced up until its 60k service and the moral of the story is that even if you do carry a spare it might be a good idea to check by practicing at home one nice day that;

A/ You can get all four wheels off. If they do stick on you have a better chance of removing them at home as you will have some tools available. I spent some time with a cold chisel removing the alloy deposit from around the spigot of the hub and a wire brush cleaning the corresponding part of the wheel. I'm not a lover of copperslip but for about a fiver it is good assembly paste so apply some to the mating sufaces.

B/ You can get the cover off the spare wheel if it has a lock on it.

C/ Check the pressure of the spare wheel and while you're at it make sure that you know where your jack, wheel brace and wheel nut key are.

If not you might just as well have a VW Golf or XTR with a can of aerosol guk.

Cheers

[FruitBat]

I'm a new owner of an 18 month old Rav4 XT5 I looked at the 180 as it was kitted up (I like my toys) but as we have a caravan we have to have a spare. I'm so glad the stealer mentioned it or I would have been carrying a big wheel in the boot or the caravan.

I don't know why but I also think the Rav looks much better with the wheel on the back door the 180 looked a bit plain from the back IMHO.

Happy with the XT5 5 though apart from none of the knobs and buttons working unless I'm not moving talk about a nanny state :( My partner was trying to add her phone to the list whilst I was driving to make a call but we had to come off the motorway at the next services to set it up.

Joe

[sywy]

none of the knobs and buttons working unless I'm not moving

Yes, that is annoying :(

Someone, managed to adapt theirs so that you could use the controls whilst moving. Not sure whether it was here or the US forum.

[Fujisan]

It took me around 20 minutes to get the wheel of because the alloy wheel had grown onto the hub. The way I eventually got it off was a liberal aamount of persuasion with a 14 pound sledge hammer with a piece of wood against the inside of the tyre.

Good advise about removing the wheels once in a while.

Once had to bash seven bells out of a front tyre on my old RS Turbo to get the wheel to part company with the hub! :ffs:

[shcm]

I'm not a lover of copperslip but for about a fiver it is good assembly paste so apply some to the mating sufaces.

I've suffered with the "welded on alloy wheel" problem in the past also. Think it's an "electro-positive" next to an "electro-negative" metal thing. I add a small amount of copper slip by default now. I do a wheel position rotation every 5k miles and the first one of these is an idea time to apply it. Also recommend getting it done before winter sets in. There must be a down side though, if anchorman is "not a lover" of it. What are those Anchorman (if any)?

none of the knobs and buttons working unless I'm not moving

Yes, that is annoying :(

Someone, managed to adapt theirs so that you could use the controls whilst moving. Not sure whether it was here or the US forum.

There is a well know method that involves putting a switch in the vehicle speed signal line to the head unit. Guess who has already done it . I can supplied details if anybody is interested, but you will probably need to remove the head unit.

Cheers.

[FruitBat]

I would be more than keen to get my hands on that information shcm I think it would be well worth the effort in rmoving the head unit

Joe

There is a well know method that involves putting a switch in the vehicle speed signal line to the head unit. Guess who has already done it . I can supplied details if anybody is interested, but you will probably need to remove the head unit.

Cheers.

[shcm]

I would be more than keen to get my hands on that information shcm I think it would be well worth the effort in rmoving the head unit

Joe,

Ok, here's some brief info for now. What you need to do is put a switch in the vehicle speed signal input to the head unit. This will mean cutting the signal wire (well that's what I did!) into the head unit, extending the two new wire ends to a switch and routing the signal through the switch. A simple toggling make-break switch will do.

The speed signal comes from the instrument pack. Maybe there is an intermediate connector elsewhere which might give the possibility of not cutting the wire, but I didn't investigate this.

The signal is pin 3 (middle pin, purple wire) of the E57 connector. E57 is the 5 pin grey connector shown top right in the picture below.

Note the head unit is upside down in this picture.

I mounted my switch in one of the spare switch apertures down by the heated seat switch.

That's basically it. The sat nav uses the speed signal to help improve its positional accuracy and to help it maintain its position when it loses position info from the GPS satellites (e.g. say in a tunnel or very densely wooded areas). One side effect of the mod is that the sat nav's position may be inaccurate while the signal is disconnected, but it seems to "catch up" when it is reconnected and doesn't appear to have any major long term effects.

Anyway, A picture is worth a thousand words. So if you still want to go ahead, I'll try and take some pictures of the installation, but it may be a while before I get around to that.

Cheers.

[Fujisan]

Installed a PIR to an existing outside light, at home yesterday. At least four wires! And it works!

Do I get my elec-tricky merit Badge from you boffins, (that I admire so much )

[FruitBat]

shcm

I am deffo going to do this so I'll hold off till you get the chance to up the other photos.

Thanks for the help so far

Joe

[sywy]

Nice one schm

It was probably your work that i read about before.

[shcm]

Installed a PIR to an existing outside light, at home yesterday. At least four wires! And it works!

Do I get my elec-tricky merit badge from you boffins, (that I admire so much )

Oh, yes (Churchill dog?). If the smoke was contained and you could actually let go of the light fitting when you'd finished then I would nominate you for it.

Nice one schm

It was probably your work that i read about before.

Thanks Simon, but it's a fairly common "googleable" mod for Toyotas and I wouldn't want to take the credit for it.

[Fujisan]

Installed a PIR to an existing outside light, at home yesterday. At least four wires! And it works!

Do I get my elec-tricky merit badge from you boffins, (that I admire so much )

Oh, yes (Churchill dog?). If the smoke was contained and you could actually let go of the light fitting when you'd finished then I would nominate you for it.

Thanks, right I'll start sewing on my little Badge now

No smoke, put I did hide around the corner when I turned the power back on

[rav man]

For a space saver spare i belive the scrap yard is going to be the best bet, HOWEVER a space saver will have a smaller diameter than a standard wheel and tyre. This would not normally presen a problem on a normal car but of course a Rav is 4 wheel drive. Just trying to work this out in my head as i type (i'm sure Anchorman or others will be along in a minute to correct any mistakes or erroneous theories). The Rav (4.3 shape) runs in front wheel drive until it detects slip, it then engages the rear wheels. With this system being electronic im not sure of the status of the centre diff, ( ie does it even have one, or is transmaission wind up released via an electronic centre coupling) Cross axle slip is taken care of via the traction control systems. So what im saying in round about way is i don't know. Ring the dealer and ask someone who does, before you use a space saver and bugger up your drive train.

(Anchorman over to you ?). Rich.

[anchorman]

The 4.3 is a really clever box of tricks. It has a variable clutch on the nose of the rear axle that can be steplessly engaged up to a maximum of 55/45% front to rear by the transmission ECU and on those fitted with stability control it is linked into that system as well.

A 4.3 always starts in 4WD which is why it has no need for traction control even on the mighty T180. The only exception is when starting for example from a junction on full lock where the amount of 4WD is backed off accordingly to prevent too much "bind up" between the axles which would cause drag. As the speed of the vehicle is increased and the torque on the transmission reduces the rear axle clutch is gradually backed off until the car becomes completely FWD to aid fuel consumption. However, any sharp bursts of throttle or even negotiating tight curves with the throttle off may engage various levels of 4WD to stabilise the car.

On a low friction surface like wet, mud or snow, the 4WD will be engaged as necessary.

Now having said all that I would not suggest that anyone fits a wheel with a different rolling radius than the original to a 4.3 or even a 4.2 which has permanent 4WD for that matter. It is why I prefer the suggestion of the H*nda wheel with the same PCD and RR. I would expect potentially big and very expensive problems with a wheel of a different diameter not knowing how the transmission ECU would cope with such a variance.

IMHO!

Cheers