Multimode System Is Rubbish

[Roby72]

Hello all...I read the forum by years but never contribute before.

I'm coming from a Corolla 1.4 VVTi and few days ago I got my new Auris 1.6 MMT.

It was my dream to buy that car and now I can say it's fabulous!!

I was scared about the MMT because of what I've read in various forums but I must confess I felt in love after ten minutes.

OK, I live in a flat area but I have hills just ten minutes driving from home...I still have to go and have a try...then I'll update my feelings.

For now the car is so pleasant to drive that I wonder how I've done before!!

I think people should understand this is not a conventional auto-gear but you should learn to adapt your driving style to it.

After some km you can easily learn how to have it under your command and decide how you want it to behave.

Of course you always have the paddle ready behind the steering wheel and it's easy to downshift or upshift manually.

I found it very gentle and precise in maneuvers like parking or entering my garage in little uphill.

I don't know if my Auris have an updated firmware but this is the report of an enthusiast driver. :)

[Doug Tews]

UPDATE: I wish to report it is possible to dramatically improve the operation of older Multimode Transmissions, such as what came in my 2007 Auris!

As mentioned in my earlier post, I bought mine used just a few months ago with only 15,000 miles on it. My initial test drive was in totally flat terrain and was not totally revealing. However after returning with it to the Isle of Wight with its cliffs and hilly terrain, the true nature of the MMT began to reveal itself. Like many others reported, I suffered horribly with hesitant shifting, lurching, getting stuck in lower gears, etc. etc. etc. Driving in many places here on the Island was a nightmare.

I was beginning to really hate this car, but then came across a post by Speed_Chaser; see post:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112679

Apparently because those early MMT's were so awful, Toyota has quietly updated the transmission controller (computer) several times. (According to my local Toyota garage, the part numbers in the above mentioned post are apparently for left-drive cars, not right-drive.)

The parts manager really didn't seem to know about updates, but after tracking down what was in my car, his Toyota parts computer confirmed there was indeed a newer version of the transmission controller available for my vehicle.

Despite what I read in that post, the parts manager was very reluctant and did not encourage me to order it. I don't think he really knew anything about it and was afraid it might not improve the transmission's operation as I was hoping.

Nonetheless, I was so unhappy with the current situation I took the risk, and paid approximately £600 to get one ordered and subsequently installed.

The result? AWESOME! I won't say it mimics a "real" automatic in totality, but it's 95 percent there. In fact, in many previously difficult spots around the Island, its operation is essentially as good as a real automatic. In fact, when you put it into drive or reverse, it even "creeps" from a standstill just like a real automatic. The car is now far, far more pleasant to drive. Shifts are much smoother and handled with much more intelligence.

This experience also helps explain why some people have been happier with their MMT's than others. Apparently, each subsequent year Toyota has been making improvements in the transmission computer. As a result, each year would see fewer people complaining. A few weeks ago, I drove a brand new Yaris with an MMT and was utterly astonished how well it worked. If I hadn't known, I would have sworn it was a conventional automatic. My "newly improved" Auris isn't quite as good as that was, but really close. In any case, it's now good enough I can happily live with it.

[farika]

With the old controller you did not help at startup (creeps)?

Can you give me the serial number of your new controller? (behind the glove box) according speed chaser's versions. Toyota don't want to change my controller...

Tks

[Sunny7]

I am so relieved to hear that someone else has had this problem! Sorry though that you did too! I bought my 2007 Auris 1.6 TF automatic (MMT) last Thursday and have been beside myself with anxiety now at driving this car. This is my 3rd Toyota, previous cars were Corolla and my last best car ever was my beloved Avensis which packed up at 110k with the big end gone! (it was X Reg) and px'd it when buying my Auris .. got a measly £180 for it having spent £319 on it the previous day, filled it with half a tank of petrol and got it a 1 yr MOT.. 6 months roadtax etc!

I was very upset but accepted it and moved on to what I thought was going to be a great little car for me. Chose to have automatic as friends have been telling me how good they are these days and have to have a hip replacement (2nd time ) in about 5 years so thought would be a good idea to change to one now. I was not told it was not a full automatic and the MMT aspect was not explained to me at all. In fact I had no idea what the various extra buttons etc were for and when I asked I was told I did not need to worry about them... not to use them!

I am not a stranger to automatics as we lived in the States in my youth and I learned on an automatic car and drove one for 2 years. Admittedly that was 41 years ago but I would have thought they would have vastly improved since then. This car is an absolute nightmare at roundabouts and junctions. I have to make a trip tomorrow where I will need to merge from a slip road onto a fast moving dual carriageway and already am worrying about it. It pulls back and changes gear when I am driving it and suddenly the other day whilst I was poodling along at 30mph, in reasonable typical middle of the afternoon small town traffic, it suddenly lurched forward into 4000 revs!!! It did it again on the way back home that night. I have spoken to the dealership and I have asked on at least 3 occasions to 3 separate people and been told that I will get used to it!! They have intimated that I am driving it incorrectly!! Maybe I am but no one has shown me how to drive it any differently. Sorry but at spending over £7k of my life savings, I feel very unsettled about it all.

But I took on board everything they advised like let my foot off the throttle and then put it back on again and I can correct it to an extent but this sudden slowing down when you least expect it or when you need to have a bit of kick a** turning right onto a busy junction or going around a roundabout or the sudden sharp revving without warning is sadly beginning to unnerve me.

I was the 3rd owner on a car that is only 4 years old, I did bring this to the salesman's attention and he said it happens sometimes.. ie. maybe the car was leased before etc.. but the car is not the reason.. I am beginning to wonder now though if it was! Perhaps the previous 2 owners could not stand this lurching/slowing down/high revvs either! It sometimes feels to me as though it is going to come to a complete standstill and stall. It is affecting my confidence in general and my swearing at the car is not helping!! I even tried talking nicely to it tonight coming home!! lol

If anyone else can offer any further advice like what I should be saying to the dealership/workshop tomorrow and Monday morning, I would be ever so grateful! Thank you!!

[Sunny7]

UPDATE: I wish to report it is possible to dramatically improve the operation of older Multimode Transmissions, such as what came in my 2007 Auris!

As mentioned in my earlier post, I bought mine used just a few months ago with only 15,000 miles on it. My initial test drive was in totally flat terrain and was not totally revealing. However after returning with it to the Isle of Wight with its cliffs and hilly terrain, the true nature of the MMT began to reveal itself. Like many others reported, I suffered horribly with hesitant shifting, lurching, getting stuck in lower gears, etc. etc. etc. Driving in many places here on the Island was a nightmare.

I was beginning to really hate this car, but then came across a post by Speed_Chaser; see post:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112679

Apparently because those early MMT's were so awful, Toyota has quietly updated the transmission controller (computer) several times. (According to my local Toyota garage, the part numbers in the above mentioned post are apparently for left-drive cars, not right-drive.)

The parts manager really didn't seem to know about updates, but after tracking down what was in my car, his Toyota parts computer confirmed there was indeed a newer version of the transmission controller available for my vehicle.

Despite what I read in that post, the parts manager was very reluctant and did not encourage me to order it. I don't think he really knew anything about it and was afraid it might not improve the transmission's operation as I was hoping.

Nonetheless, I was so unhappy with the current situation I took the risk, and paid approximately £600 to get one ordered and subsequently installed.

The result? AWESOME! I won't say it mimics a "real" automatic in totality, but it's 95 percent there. In fact, in many previously difficult spots around the Island, its operation is essentially as good as a real automatic. In fact, when you put it into drive or reverse, it even "creeps" from a standstill just like a real automatic. The car is now far, far more pleasant to drive. Shifts are much smoother and handled with much more intelligence.

This experience also helps explain why some people have been happier with their MMT's than others. Apparently, each subsequent year Toyota has been making improvements in the transmission computer. As a result, each year would see fewer people complaining. A few weeks ago, I drove a brand new Yaris with an MMT and was utterly astonished how well it worked. If I hadn't known, I would have sworn it was a conventional automatic. My "newly improved" Auris isn't quite as good as that was, but really close. In any case, it's now good enough I can happily live with it.

Hi Doug Tews... your post has definitely encouraged me to speak to my dealership again and see what, if anything, they are prepared to do with the car to resolve the issue I have with the MMT aspect. I really do not enjoy driving this car having always enjoyed my Avensis and other previous cars. I am sorely disappointed in the car and that concerns me greatly, given that I have used all my life savings on this vehicle. It is under an extra 1 year warranty from Toyota, I wonder if this work would be covered given that I have complained about it since day one and even on my Test Drive.. as I said in an earlier post, no one was interested and told me that I would get used to it in time. I live in an area of mixed terrain too so am always going to be put to the test on what the car is going to do next. Thank you for sharing this post as I have gained more confidence just in the knowledge I was not alone with this difficulty.

Before I left the dealership, I asked about the plus and minus bars on the steering wheel as I really had no idea what they were there for or about the M and plus and minus on the gear lever (or whatever it is called in an automatic) and was literally told not to worry about it, and to just drive with it in E always! That did not answer my question clearly and left me wondering why the heck they were there if I did not need to use them! I think he may have been thinking as I am a woman and seemingly did not know my car one end from the other, that I did not need to know about it, that it would confuse me more. I was concerned admittedly about driving an automatic after 35 years of only ever having driven a manual, I was so concerned I may try and change gear or look for the clutch! As it happens that novelty wore off after worrying about games my new car was up to! Please don't laugh anyone out there... I am a creature of habit and not looking for a car to race about in. I need a car to be safe, reliable.. will act on my command not its own so that I can safely carry my 3 year old granddaughter around in it.

To be honest, this is not what I wanted to purchase. I was looking for an automatic and feel somewhat misled and unhappy with my purchase. I should have stuck with the higher mileage manual he had for sale pehaps at £1500 less!:-(

Interestingly enough too .. someone else on another forum mentioned their Auris and travel sickness.. my granddaughter told me that she did not like my new car and that she wanted my old one back.. she said this was a bumpy ride! The suspension is very different on handling than the Avensis.. which is much more solid and comfortable a ride, I feel this one bounces a long the bumps .. this could be a contributory factor in people feeling motion sickness.

[Sunny7]

sorry but this was the first thread that popped up in my search for problems with the MMT gearbox.

I recently just got a new Yaris T-Spirit MMT 3 weeks ago, I have previously had two other automatic Yaris and LOVED them.

I swear this new car is the worst I have ever driven! Like all new cars, I figured I might just need to get used to it. But after 3 weeks of feeling as though there was a kangaroo in the engine I called my dealer yesterday to complain. I got the distinct impression he wasnt too surprised at my tales of woe. Anyway, the car is going in tomorrow to be 'checked over'. But in all honesty I am bracing myself for a fight, the thought of driving that car for at least three years makes me want to weep.

To summarise, it is jerky, cant find the gears, sounds like I am a boy racer when taking off at a roundabout, is incredibly noisy, has dreadful roll back on even a tiny incline. Shame really because it looks so nice.

Why oh why have Toyota screwed this up so badly? It really saddens me as I have been incredibly loyal to them, encouraged others to buy them etc

I have a 1.6 TSpirit with multimode and I must say that I have grown to love it. You must realise it is not a full automatic, essentially you have to learn how to drive the car to make the most of the multi mode transmission. I have had mine now for approximately 3 months and it drives how I want it. I am almost convinced that it has gotten better with time. It drives like a manual but shifts itself. With clever application of the accelerator pedal it really is fun to drive.

If you approach driving the multi mode with the attitude that it's a full auto then you will be stuck. It is not. Also, note that you will not get the same CO2 emission levels and economy from a full auto transmission.

I love mine and my advise is to learn how to drive it. It really does get better with time, it's almost as if it has a learning feature so it customises to your style of driving. Mine is just perfect at the moment.

Just my humble opinion but I don't think you should have to 'grow to love' something as important as the transmission system and I do wonder whether this is people trying to convince themselves that they haven't bought a lame duck and that there isn't, at least with some, a degree of denial going on. For the majority of people, i.e. the non boy racers, the car should simply transport you easily and efortlessly from A to B. Having paid a lot of money you should not have to adapt your driving to the car for heaven's sake.

I am fortunate in having an E12 Corolla with a fully automatic box and the driving experience is fantastic. It truly is effortless, leaving you to concentrate more of your focus on driving. I don't doubt that it is slightly less fuel efficient but it isn't enough to bother me. I get an average of between 38 - 41 mpg which I think is pretty good.

And no I haven't driven an MMT and, from all I have read here and elsewhere, don't intend to. It would be too much of a financial risk. It seems a poor,under developed, technology to me probably introduced to meet the politically correct pressure to market so called greener, more fuel efficient cars. The real sadness about this is that the ordinary punter who relies on their car is being duped by the manufacturers and then left in a stressed up position with a half baked arrangement. I just hope that Toyota and other manufacturers see the light and either significantly improve MMT or dump it and go back to full auto which is a well proven and non intrusive system.

Does Toyota offer MMT in Japan? That might be telling us something if they don't

I totally agree with your comments about why should we 'grow to love' the car! I am totally disappointed with my Auris purchase and am due to speak to the dealership tomorrow to see what can be done to assist me with this. Prior to buying my used Auris 1.6 ( I thought I was buying a full automatic and did not get an explanation from anyone at the dealership what the MMT meant and I had not got a clue!) I thoroughly enjoyed driving my previous cars (2 of them Toyotas.. based on this experience, I wish I had not bought this one though!!) .. now 10 days on, I don't want to go anywhere in it.

[Cyker]

Manual FTW! :D

But try and get the MMT upgrade; The Auris is AFAIK the ONLY car that has this magical MMT decrapifying upgrade - It hasn't (And apparently will never be) filtered down to the current and previous gen Aygo or Yaris (Although I assume the Mk3 Yaris has it because it'd be stupid not to!).

The only other workaround is the drive-it-in-manual-mode option...

[Sunny7]

I have had my Auris 1.6 MM for about 5 months having previously had 2 Corollas and a Carina and I have to say that it is the worst car that I have ever driven. When driving it in manual you have absolutely no control when coming down through the gears which makes it particularly dangerous when pulling away at junctions and roundabouts. Driving it in "E" mode is even worse because it goes from 1st to 2nd to 4th and then back to 3rd. The mechanic at the dealers has explained that it will always choose the highest gear based on the number of revs but admitted that Toyota have received a number of complaints about multimode and suggested that I should use the "Es" mode instead but this seems to defeat the whole purpose of buying an economic car as it very rarely ever goes into 5th gear in this mode.

My main problem though is that when I slow down at a junction and then pull away quickly I get stuck in 1st gear and find myself doing 5000rpm without the gears changing. I have to either stop completely or flick the the gear stick into manual and change manually to enable it to move to 2nd gear. The mechanic has also experienced this in 3rd gear but his supervisor says that there is nothing wrong although admits that he thinks that multimode is a very poor system. The salesman has offered to exchange the car for a new manual model but I will lose £5,000.

I will take it back to the gararge again on Monday but does anyone else have similiar issues with multimode.

Thanks,

Dave.

Hi Dave, have you resolved your Auris MMT issues yet please? I am having the same problems .. it is really getting me down to be honest. Bought my 2007 car 10 days ago and I dread going out in it now. I am calling the dealership tomorrow morning but any advice received from anyone would be very welcome before I make that call. I want to know what I am talking about when I speak to them. Thankfully in finding this post on the MMT issues, I do feel much more informed than I was a few days ago. I am fearful that I will have the same problem too though you had where you said you were going to lose out financially by going back to a manual.

Cheers

[geoffb]

Hi Sunny,

I see that one of my posts from the past has been ressurrected re MMT versus full auto. I am really sorry that you are having so much grief. It's awful when that happens with a new car irrespective of what the issue is and you have my sympathy. It looks to me as though MMT has moved on a little (mention of controller upgrades springs to mind) since I last wrote on the topic but is still rather a hit and miss system and remains a love it or hate it arrangement. Sadly, I suspect that my previous comments of way back that MMT represents just another bit of 'green' compromise engineering remains true. Though one hopes that, as time goes on, the engineering will continue to improve to a point where it is acceptable to almost all of us. Maybe that controller upgrade will sort it for you.

I still have my E12 Corolla auto and don't plan to part with it anytime soon (it's 6 years old now and I bought it new). I am about to buy a second car but it won't be a Toyota. I have become very disillusioned with the interior plastics on new Toyota models and, had I not decided to radically change what I am looking for (a sports car now), would also have want a genuine good old fashioned auto box or similar (I note the comments about HSD from one poster in that respect).

Hope you get it all sorted anyway and good luck with that :)

[mrpj]

Manual FTW! :D

But try and get the MMT upgrade; The Auris is AFAIK the ONLY car that has this magical MMT decrapifying upgrade - It hasn't (And apparently will never be) filtered down to the current and previous gen Aygo or Yaris (Although I assume the Mk3 Yaris has it because it'd be stupid not to!).

The only other workaround is the drive-it-in-manual-mode option...

I'm fairly sure the "new" Yaris has a CVT system and not the MMT. I stand to be corrected if it's otherwise!

It would appear from that, Toyota have sensibly ditched the MMT in the Mk3. It's just a shame that us buyers of the MMT wasted our hard earned on a failed experiment. What's the betting Toyota get rid from their other models which use the MMT too, when they are replaced/updated/facelifted?

[Chris Aaaaa]

There seem to be a few converts here, so for those who have worked out how to drive this contraption, how do you do a hill start?

I know the obvious answer is the handbrake but is there anything else I should know, the dealer told us to use the brake and accelerator together, sounds like a recipe for a burnt out out clutch to me.

[Cyker]

I'm fairly sure the "new" Yaris has a CVT system and not the MMT. I stand to be corrected if it's otherwise!

It would appear from that, Toyota have sensibly ditched the MMT in the Mk3. It's just a shame that us buyers of the MMT wasted our hard earned on a failed experiment. What's the betting Toyota get rid from their other models which use the MMT too, when they are replaced/updated/facelifted?

Doh, good point, I forgot about that

CVT will be much smoother for sure, just don't tow or carry anything heavy up a hill with it

[bobbo7070]

Dunno if this has been said before, but the MMT box works well in smaller lighter cars, but in the Auris/Verso they were/are crap.

I bought one of the first Versos that came out back in '04, and on the insistence of the wife ordered the MMT version. From day one it was horrible to drive, and to be honest I always went out in my 10 year old Hilux in preference to the new motor. Strangely the wife found it acceptable, at least at first.

A year later my wife wanted a little run around so we ordered a new Aygo+, and to my horror she wanted the MMT version?!? When it arrived however, I was relieved to find it was pretty damn good to drive. Positive and predictable (still didn't like it though).

Over 3 years or so the Verso gradually deteriorated to the point where even the wife didn't like it anymore, so it had to go.

Five years on and I've now got a Auris T180 (best car I've ever owned!), and the wife's had a brand new Aygo Go for the last couple of months (MMT again). The new Go is like a different car to the old Plus. Don't know if Toyota listened to people and revised the way it works.

Out of interest, when we were shopping around for the best price on the new Go I made a point of asking every salesman I came across what they though of the MMT. To a man they all said what I started this post with; good on little cars, *****-poor on heavier motors.

[Cyker]

Well so far, the upgraded version Auris MMT is reportedly WAAAY better than the current Yaris and Aygo MMTs.

I don't know if the Aygo MMT has been upgraded in more recent models (If so, a lot of our Aygo users will be breaking down their dealer's door demanding theirs get the upgrade too I suspect ), but the ones I've driven were horrid; You had to treat them so gently or the gear shifts would be like a kick up the backside, and trying to accelerate onto a roundabout or away from a junction were quite scary...

Its gear choice for certain hills were optimistic to say the least!

I haven't tried that many, but it seems to me the MMT system seems to works better on cars that are either light weight and/or have stronger engines.

I found the 1.4 D4D Yaris a lot better than the 1.0 VVTi when equipped with an MMT. (But still much worse than a real auto or manual :D)

Disclaimer: I am very much a "Manual FTW! :P" person :D

[bobbo7070]

Wifey's Aygo is actually really nice to drive with predictable and controllable gear changes. It does occasionally get it wrong or change up when accelerating, but that's rare. The Verso, and to a certain extent the Aygo+ were positively dangerous when trying to nip out into heavy traffic. You never knew if they would respond properly or fumble for a gear before pulling away.

I was told by one dealer the MMT's in the new Auris's is a complete redesign of the original system (btw, the same dealer told me that the MMT system "learns" your driving style and somehow remembers it, yeah, right! )

(Wifey's Aygo would benefit from a 2.2 engine though )

[Cyker]

2.2 in an Aygo! :lol2:

I still don't know how they fit a 1.8L into the Yaris!

But that reminds me, IIRC Toyota made a mid-engined Aygo one-off car that was pretty insane

[Sunny7]

Hi Sunny,

I see that one of my posts from the past has been ressurrected re MMT versus full auto. I am really sorry that you are having so much grief. It's awful when that happens with a new car irrespective of what the issue is and you have my sympathy. It looks to me as though MMT has moved on a little (mention of controller upgrades springs to mind) since I last wrote on the topic but is still rather a hit and miss system and remains a love it or hate it arrangement. Sadly, I suspect that my previous comments of way back that MMT represents just another bit of 'green' compromise engineering remains true. Though one hopes that, as time goes on, the engineering will continue to improve to a point where it is acceptable to almost all of us. Maybe that controller upgrade will sort it for you.

I still have my E12 Corolla auto and don't plan to part with it anytime soon (it's 6 years old now and I bought it new). I am about to buy a second car but it won't be a Toyota. I have become very disillusioned with the interior plastics on new Toyota models and, had I not decided to radically change what I am looking for (a sports car now), would also have want a genuine good old fashioned auto box or similar (I note the comments about HSD from one poster in that respect).

Hope you get it all sorted anyway and good luck with that :)

Hi Geoff.. thank you so much for coming back to me .. I figured as these posts were so old that it was like a ghost town on here .. email addies changed and people moved on etc.. but when I saw your email there just now in my junk mail folder, well let's just say the light went on for me!!

I spoke with the salesman whom I purchased the car from yesterday and although I am not sure he agrees with me that the car is a problem, he has agreed to get it in and have a look at what they can do to 'tweak' it. I told him about things I had read in various places on the net over the weekend and how there are a lot of very unhappy Toyota Auris owners out there with these exact same problems as I have faced this past 10 days or so. I did begin to get rather emotional whilst talking to him and feel quite close to tears now .. this car has cost me everything I had saved.. I really did not want to be buying a newer car just now.. he knew all this.

If my old trusted steed (Avensis ) had not packed up, I seriously would still be driving it.. it was a fab car! Sorry .. I digress....anyway the gist of the matter is that hopefully this time tomorrow things may be resolved....I am usually an optimistic sort of girl but I feel very downhearted about this and can't help but feel the battle is not over yet. Unlike someone who spent £600 putting his right with 2 upgrades, I don't feel I can afford that but what choice do I have in all honesty? Other than the fact that the car has a year's extended warranty on it. However, I am going to remain optimistic as I can be and hope and pray that whatever happens tomorrow that the outcome is a positive and enlightening one!

My sales guy said he wanted me to be happy and of course as we know a happy customer tells her friends and family how well they have been treated in such circumstances or not as the case may be. I hope he is true to his word, I really do.

I will be back on here with good news or bad news tomorrow night but hopefully good so that others in the same boat may be encouraged to do something about it if they have this issue too.

Cheers again .. all the best in finding your perfect car!! :)

PS one of the defensive comments that was made was that all the other Toyota cars have this MMT with no problems at all.....I suggested he check out some reviews .. but that I could only speak for the Auris and whatever the other cars were or were not .. I was not a happy bunny! What is the deal with the other cars .. anyone know? Good /bad?

[Sunny7]

Wifey's Aygo is actually really nice to drive with predictable and controllable gear changes. It does occasionally get it wrong or change up when accelerating, but that's rare. The Verso, and to a certain extent the Aygo+ were positively dangerous when trying to nip out into heavy traffic. You never knew if they would respond properly or fumble for a gear before pulling away.

I was told by one dealer the MMT's in the new Auris's is a complete redesign of the original system (btw, the same dealer told me that the MMT system "learns" your driving style and somehow remembers it, yeah, right! )

(Wifey's Aygo would benefit from a 2.2 engine though )

Okay I won't tell the wife!! Hmm so it is not just the Auris then.. I had noted a few comments about various others in the Toyota fleet as being problematic but it seemed the Auris was the leader of the pack on these 'demonic' cars. Seriously my car has not left my driveway all weekend.. just as well I work from home! I am not looking forward to the drive to the dealership tomorrow when it goes in to be given a once over at my urgent request! I absolutely HATE this car.. I feel miserable and p****d off that I used up all my savings for it. I feel as though I have bought the proverbial white elephant and whilst I would truly hope that it will all be resolved after them having it in the workshop tomorrow, I somehow am afraid it won't be and that this is going to take a few more visits before its rectified.

But I live in hope!!

[Sunny7]

Well so far, the upgraded version Auris MMT is reportedly WAAAY better than the current Yaris and Aygo MMTs.

I don't know if the Aygo MMT has been upgraded in more recent models (If so, a lot of our Aygo users will be breaking down their dealer's door demanding theirs get the upgrade too I suspect ), but the ones I've driven were horrid; You had to treat them so gently or the gear shifts would be like a kick up the backside, and trying to accelerate onto a roundabout or away from a junction were quite scary...

Its gear choice for certain hills were optimistic to say the least!

I haven't tried that many, but it seems to me the MMT system seems to works better on cars that are either light weight and/or have stronger engines.

I found the 1.4 D4D Yaris a lot better than the 1.0 VVTi when equipped with an MMT. (But still much worse than a real auto or manual :D)

Disclaimer: I am very much a "Manual FTW! :P" person :D

Hi there

I wish I had opted for a manual!!! Oh how I wish!! But wishing is not going to help me out of this mess! You don't know how encouraging it is for me to see though that even guys have had problems with the MMT! I was beginning to get a complex about it each time I felt I needed to bring it up to the Toyota guys.. like they were seriously thinking this is 'a woman' who does not know how to drive these easy cars! My friends in the States were all saying how glad they were that I got an automatic ........I kept telling them this is NOT an automatic like they know automatics!! This is a car that is possessed! And as you say negotiating roundabouts and junctions ..........well I have started praying hard and loud.. literally! I wish they would come and pick up Beelzebub tomorrow instead of me driving it down there to them .. wish me luck folks!! They asked me what car would I like for my courtesy car.. 3 guesses what I told them.. MANUAL ONLY PLEASE! I may run off with the manual car and forget to go back to pick up B/bub!

[Sunny7]

There seem to be a few converts here, so for those who have worked out how to drive this contraption, how do you do a hill start?

I know the obvious answer is the handbrake but is there anything else I should know, the dealer told us to use the brake and accelerator together, sounds like a recipe for a burnt out out clutch to me.

I was not told anything.. but I did what you were told and I read somewhere that is what someone had advised against .. that yes the clutch would burn out.

I just wanted a nice easy car to drive..they saw me coming..this car has had 2 previous owners in 4 years .. I am wondering why..... they are local to here.. I wonder if I am within my liberty to find out from them ..what do you all think? Or is that something that is frowned upon? If they said it was the car's gears as the reason maybe I would get more sense out of Toyota! Oh well off to bed as cannot worry about it anymore for now.. its off to the workshop tomorrow at the dealership to be 'looked at' and 'tweaked'..

[geoffb]

PS one of the defensive comments that was made was that all the other Toyota cars have this MMT with no problems at all.....I suggested he check out some reviews .. but that I could only speak for the Auris and whatever the other cars were or were not .. I was not a happy bunny! What is the deal with the other cars .. anyone know? Good /bad?

To be honest, salespersons on the defensive with the old 'never seen that issue before' or 'it's not an issue I have come across' is the standard response to any complaint usually followed by referring you to the service side. I wouldn't want to tar every car salesperson with the same brush which would be very unfair... I have had great service from one or two over the years... but I do think that the trade generally has a thread of obfuscation, misleading behaviour and dishonesty running through it. It does seem to be a real jungle out there made all the more stressful because of the financial outlay. But, as I say, I have had good experiences buying cars so all is not lost. I wish you lots of luck getting it sorted anyway and my fingers are crossed for you

[Sunny7]

PS one of the defensive comments that was made was that all the other Toyota cars have this MMT with no problems at all.....I suggested he check out some reviews .. but that I could only speak for the Auris and whatever the other cars were or were not .. I was not a happy bunny! What is the deal with the other cars .. anyone know? Good /bad?

To be honest, salespersons on the defensive with the old 'never seen that issue before' or 'it's not an issue I have come across' is the standard response to any complaint usually followed by referring you to the service side. I wouldn't want to tar every car salesperson with the same brush which would be very unfair... I have had great service from one or two over the years... but I do think that the trade generally has a thread of obfuscation, misleading behaviour and dishonesty running through it. It does seem to be a real jungle out there made all the more stressful because of the financial outlay. But, as I say, I have had good experiences buying cars so all is not lost. I wish you lots of luck getting it sorted anyway and my fingers are crossed for you

Hi Geoff

Well I had all my fingers and toes crossed yesterday when the car went in to be 'looked over' .. they had it nearly all day and when I arrived to collect it was told that it had been 're-initialised' and now should be a lot better... something to do with the way the clutch has memory or some thing? My son said it made sense to him ..so let's hope that this has cleared a lot of the problem! I was told that my chassis number was not the same as the cars on the 'site' that had these problems so not sure ...but at least there was recognition (which meant a lot) that the car had had a problem!

I drove it home and so far so good, it was substantially better .. let's see if it lasts! Still pulling back and did revv up a bit too much but not as high as the 4000rpms as my previous experience. They said see how it goes for a couple of weeks and give them a call if any problems so they could not do any more at this stage and they did not charge me.

My confidence has been rocked somewhat in this experience though in the dealership/car specifics so that has to be healed still... however, I do not believe in holding grudges or bearing resentment, life is too short.. so I daresay my relationship with them would continue in future purchases and I would be able to recommend them to others given how they have handled this. My sales guy did listen to me and did help me to get this sorted. I have thanked him for that.

My son took me for a quick lesson afterwards in how to use the manual aspect of the transmission and he was just about to tell me the bit about the ES and I stopped him and said "no more.. I won't remember to do all this and will be attempting to put it into reverse thinking I am changing gear again.. no.. stop!!!".. he thought that was very funny and no doubt I was the subject of amusement at the pub last night with his pals! Oh well.... c'est la vie. Too long in the tooth to care about that...

One thing I learned from driving their courtesy car (Aygo) was that I don't want a manual again! That was a good test as I had been seriously considering getting them to take it back and having a manual again. I do still miss my Avensis though all said and done.. my attachment to that car is the 1st of its kind in all my previous cars.

Interestingly though I did speak to Trading Standards yesterday just to find out what my rights in all this were and as I had been misled on the issue of it not being a full automatic and was not at any time informed anything about the MMT aspect, and when asked various questions about the paddles etc.. was not told anything, I would have had full rights under the Sale of Goods Act and been entitled to a repair, replacement or refund and would you believe ( I found this staggering)... for a period of 6 years after the sale!! Obviously though, they prefer you to resolve it asap. I hope the car problems are therefore resolved so we don't have to go down that route for everyone's sake! I hope others make a note of that though if they are misled or missold anything.

It did raise other questions for me though which I hope they now think about for their future sales of used cars..and that is that if they know the clutch holds a memory of the last person/s who drove it.. re the wear and tear on it per se.. why is it they are not resetting this before the new owner takes the car? It made me wonder if the previous buyer had not kept the car due to this problem being present from the previous owner (1st owner) and that they had not taken it up with anyone at a dealership to find out as I have done... instead just decided to be shot of it? Perhaps there is a lesson here for me and for them for future sales. I for one will not take anything for granted that because I am not told something that it does not present a problem and that they check every used car for inherent problems before resale.

Thank you for your comments over the last couple of days, they have been much appreciated.

Take care and have a wonderful Christmas Season

H

[Sunny7]

Wifey's Aygo is actually really nice to drive with predictable and controllable gear changes. It does occasionally get it wrong or change up when accelerating, but that's rare. The Verso, and to a certain extent the Aygo+ were positively dangerous when trying to nip out into heavy traffic. You never knew if they would respond properly or fumble for a gear before pulling away.

I was told by one dealer the MMT's in the new Auris's is a complete redesign of the original system (btw, the same dealer told me that the MMT system "learns" your driving style and somehow remembers it, yeah, right! )

(Wifey's Aygo would benefit from a 2.2 engine though )

Okay I won't tell the wife!! Hmm so it is not just the Auris then.. I had noted a few comments about various others in the Toyota fleet as being problematic but it seemed the Auris was the leader of the pack on these 'demonic' cars. Seriously my car has not left my driveway all weekend.. just as well I work from home! I am not looking forward to the drive to the dealership tomorrow when it goes in to be given a once over at my urgent request! I absolutely HATE this car.. I feel miserable and p****d off that I used up all my savings for it. I feel as though I have bought the proverbial white elephant and whilst I would truly hope that it will all be resolved after them having it in the workshop tomorrow, I somehow am afraid it won't be and that this is going to take a few more visits before its rectified.

But I live in hope!!

Bobbo.. re your comment about what you were told that the style of driving is remembered.. I was told much the same yesterday when they re-initialised my clutch memory based on previous drivers (how this relates is from what I understand is that the clutch would show a certain wear and tear point and they judge it on that.. )sorry bit technical for me and I probably have not relayed it as precisely as it is.. but in essence.. if we believe this.. the car (clutch) remembers your driving style... hmm.. any technical bods out there want to explain this to the rest of us technophobes please?

[Sunny7]

Just thought I would update you all.

On earlier points - I tried to grow to love the new Yaris but it just wasnt happening, I hated driving it, it stressed me out. Sorry that isnt the experience you want from a new car. I have been driving automatic cars for 20 years, my first being an old Volvo variomatic - also jumpy at times but nowhere near as bad as the MMT disaster.

Afraid driving it in manual mode isnt an option for me as I have a disability in my left hand - hence I have always driven automatic cars.

Bottom line is - my Yaris is going back. After just a few weeks and 200 miles on the clock. Why oh why have they done this? I loved Toyota, encouraged my Mum to get one which she also loves - but when she changes her car this year she isnt even considering getting another after my experience.

Thanks for your kind words folks. I really hope this is something they address soon before they lose a serious amount of custom.

Hi there..

Can I ask you what kind of automatic you eventually bought as I am having problems with my Auris MMT.. it went into the dealership yesterday for a tweak and was great driving home .. I thought okay I can work with this but today its back to where it was!

[Sunny7]

To be fair I think you will find if you look at other manufacturer forums that most MMT type systems are either love or hate scenarios.

You do have to learn a new driving style and some car systems are not inistialised correctly (the computer is told the wrong bite and change points).

When I drove a Citroen with their first stab at this type of system (the sensodrive) I found the most difficult thing to adapt to was not being able to judge the clutch bite point. This is a real pain for hill starts and parking. The other time the system is not good is when you are slowing down for a junction (brake applied) you see it is clear and want power (accelerator applied) the computers have to switch from slowing down changing down mode to speeding up changing up mode and this take a noticable amount of time (even if it is milliseconds).

There are not many car reviews who praise these systems and only half of the owners like them. I would say if you are planning to get an MMT gearbox get an extended test drive first and if the car you buy does not drive the same as the car you tested get the garage to reset the system so that it does.

Hi ..For some reason or another when plodding through all the posts over the last week, I missed this of yours.. my Auris 1.6 TR was re-initialised yesterday and driving it home was a lot better than how it had been prior.. however, 1 day and its back to where it was before this reset. I feel really quite emotional about the whole thing.. very disappointed.