Rav T180 Run Flat Tyres

[anchorman]

I find this lot bewildering.

Aren't there any standard wheels and tyres available? If I were planning to keep one of these things for any length of time I would ditch those bldg things the first time it needed 2 new tyres. The way I see it that's £600 towards a set of std kit and after that it is ordinary tyres at a fraction of the cost.

[shcm]

I find this lot bewildering.

Aren't there any standard wheels and tyres available? If I were planning to keep one of these things for any length of time I would ditch those bldg things the first time it needed 2 new tyres. The way I see it that's £600 towards a set of std kit and after that it is ordinary tyres at a fraction of the cost.

You're not alone. I don't see why Toyota don't just bite the bullet and go the "can of gunk" route for the T180 and leave the TPMS as the model differentiator, or at least give customers the option of gunk or run flats. so then it's either:

• Cheaper tyres but maybe more hassle with a roadside puncture or
  
• less hassle(???) with a puncture but expensive tyres
  

yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice...................

[anchorman]

I can see where the original concept comes from;

It is a high performance vehicle and the wider low profile tyres help it to handle accordingly. Run flats will go some way to maintaining the handling with a loss of pressure and do away with the headache of hanging an oversized wheel on the back door (they would have an opening the size of a letter box to avoid obscuring the lights).

However, I think if you survey all the current owners they would say bigger wheels - fair enough but as for run flats, stick em where the sun don't shine! It would be cheaper to knacker the tyre with a tin of gunk on the statistical risk of having a puncture than put up with this nonsense.

Sorry guys, I would have em on eBay and let some punk kids fit them to Pug 106's.

I think the bothmeister uses Demon Tweeks and that would be my first port of call.

[shcm]

............and Yer second hand run flats would be perfect for yer 3 door 4.1 petrol RAV :P

Right, enough of this I'm outta here.

[bothwell_buyer]

............and Yer second hand run flats would be perfect for yer 3 door 4.1 petrol RAV :P

Right, enough of this I'm outta here.

haha

I'm on lightweight 18" non-toyota alloys with low profile wide tyres on and a spare bolted on back. Tyres that I can buy anywhere, altho I only use Autoimage in Glasgow for all my vehicles tyres and wheels....

Run flats are for road rollers.

[Manxrav]

If you put a set of different wheels and tyres on the T180 how would you get round the TPMS?

Sorry if I appear a thicko but just wondered how you,d do it as it seems a quite logical solution to a very xpensive replacement of the exsisting tyres

Clare

[Fujisan]

I have to confess I am slightly confused by Toyota's continuing policy (almost dogmatic approach) to this problem.

Other manufacturers fit run flat tyres to their cars, the stiff side walled type of run flat. A quick check show's that the BMW X5 uses "Run-flat tyres with Tyre Puncture Warning System (TPWS)".

My guess is that the X5 is heavier than any RAV, is also four wheel drive and is generally more powerful but it can use the stiff side wall tyre. So in theory Toyota if they wanted to, could also fit stiff side wall tyres, if they wanted to continue down the run flat route.

I think but I might be wrong, this would get rid of a lot of the cost, time and trouble associated with the doughnut system Toyota currently use for it's run-flats.

The other advantage I believe of the stiff side walled tyres is any garage can remove them and fit ordinary tyres easily in there place.

I have to say, I think Toyota are shooting themselves in the foot with this one.

[sywy]

Clare, I'm not 100% certain, but i always thought the TPMS was in the valve. If so, could this valve not be used on another tyre?

[shcm]

Precisely Simon

I've just checked with a colleague in the office who worked on the system that was designed here and that was certainly the case for our system - the valves were interchangeable.

There is application work done with specific rims, because the rim can subtly affect the system performance

Might think about it more later. In the meantime, back to work...................

[shcm]

I don't see why Toyota don't just bite the bullet and go the "can of gunk" route for the T180 and leave the TPMS as the model differentiator

...........and I have thought about it a bit more and just to correct myself, the can of gunk will knacker the TPMS valve if used with it . Still thinking......................

[sywy]

TPMS valve + stiff wall runflats?

I'm not totally against having runflats, it's the restricted choice of fitter/supplier and the time taken to replace them that I'm not happy with.

[shcm]

If you put a set of different wheels and tyres on the T180 how would you get round the TPMS?

Sorry if I appear a thicko but just wondered how you,d do it as it seems a quite logical solution to a very xpensive replacement of the exsisting tyres

Clare

Clare,

It's not a stupid question, I've seen colleagues going through a very large amount of effort, to get similar systems working to a reliable production standard.

After doing some further checking, there are, as I see it, 2 possibilities:

1. You keep the TPMS. Swap the TPMS valves onto the new wheels, but you probably won't be able to use sealant gunk if you don't want to potentially damage the sensors in the valve. Probably also assumes that the new tyres run at similar pressures to the run flats and if the wheel design is different to the old wheel, the system may not be as reliable (over simplifying it a bit- the wheel design can affect the valve radio transmissions).
   
2. You forget about the TPMS. I believe the warning lamp can be defeated by simply disconnecting the TPMS ECU connector. The TPMS ECU for RHD is behind the panel in front of the drivers knees and for LHD behind the glove box. My concern with this was that disconnecting the TPMS ECU might turn the TPMS warning light on. i.e. disconnecting the ECU is a system fault and sometimes these things are designed to indicate that. I believe in this case it is not that clever and just disconnecting will do the trick - I think.
   

Neither way is probably for those who lack the confidence to try it though, which is perfectly understandable.

As Fuj and Simon say, on the face of it, stiff side walls (& TPMS) would appear to be a solution with less hassle.

[anchorman]

Just in from work!

You have to ask why TGB subscribe to this confounded system. Maybe the stiff wall tyre has weight or C of G limitations. I can't help but think that if they hadn't got tied up into supply contracts with Bridgestone that they would have gone down the simple "ordinary tyre" route given the chance to think again.

The issue is enough to stop me buying one of those otherwise highly desireable cars as I will not be held to ransom about having to buy tyres from TGB. I'm not even sure that it meets European anti-competitive laws. I remember that various brake manufacturers tried holding the replacement market by designing special "can't get it from anywhere else" features into brake pads and they got heavy penalties for it.

I'm surprised TGB haven't come forward to proffer an explanation on this situation. Maybe I will contact them to see what they say?

[bothwell_buyer]

OK - some of you golden oldies out there will be able to offer opinion -

What exactly did Ben Hur do when he got a flat wheel....apart from fall over??

Nothing - cos they had very stiff wheels and very stiff tyres...made from wood and steel rather than rubber and steel.

Would it not be easier to make the wheels solid and alter the suspension to compensate??

Then we wouldn't have the daily problem of thousands of old tyres being set alight throughout the UK

We have just had a major fire in a disused Shanks & McEwan site where 400+ tons of tyres were set alight. The cost in pure manhours of fireman tackling the blaze is massive + the amount of water used to douse the 150' flames....

[Fujisan]

Just in from work!

You have to ask why TGB subscribe to this confounded system. Maybe the stiff wall tyre has weight or C of G limitations. I can't help but think that if they hadn't got tied up into supply contracts with Bridgestone that they would have gone down the simple "ordinary tyre" route given the chance to think again.

The issue is enough to stop me buying one of those otherwise highly desireable cars as I will not be held to ransom about having to buy tyres from TGB. I'm not even sure that it meets European anti-competitive laws. I remember that various brake manufacturers tried holding the replacement market by designing special "can't get it from anywhere else" features into brake pads and they got heavy penalties for it.

I'm surprised TGB haven't come forward to proffer an explanation on this situation. Maybe I will contact them to see what they say?

I don't think there can be a weight or C of G limitation on stiff side wall tyres because like I said early I think they are used on the BMW X5.

And if memory serves me right, the first still side wall run flats fitted to the 5-series were made by Bridgestone

[duncerduncs]

You can fit stiff side wall runflats to the T180!

The above graph shows that you can fit both run flat systems from Brigestone to cars our size.

Also, if you go HERE you'll notice that the Dueler H/T 687 tyre fitted to the T180 is now available in the right size for the rest of the Rav range...

[anchorman]

Duncs

I thought they were 225/65/17s?

The 65X225 line is in the "support ring only" the way I read the graph!!??? You could fit 225/60 as long as the rolling radius was not effected or go up to 18 inch wheels.

If you mean that the run flats are available for my car - I don't think I will bother ;)

[duncerduncs]

Duncs

I thought they were 225/65/17s?

The 65X225 line is in the "support ring only" the way I read the graph!!??? You could fit 225/60 as long as the rolling radius was not effected or go up to 18 inch wheels.

If you mean that the run flats are available for my car - I don't think I will bother ;)

Anchorman,

I'm reading the green colour as either tyre, blue as stiff side wall only and brown as support ring only (am I reading it wrong? )

I would've thought all Rav owners would be queing up at their local Bridgestone centre to have run flats fitted.... :shutit:

[anchorman]

Duncs

I think you go up the 65 line and accross the 225 line it suggests support ring only. That little SUV symbol confuses the graph.

Did you resolve that other issue?

[duncerduncs]

Duncs

I think you go up the 65 line and accross the 225 line it suggests support ring only. That little SUV symbol confuses the graph.

Did you resolve that other issue?

I see what you are saying now!

But the T180 is 235/55 so that puts it in the green area

My other issue is still ongoing! :(

[anchorman]

It does indeed!

I've got duff info from further up the thread.

Cheers.

[bothwell_buyer]

I'll not even ask if my 18" 245x45 (I think) come anywhere near. I need the spare on the back to counterbalance the 6 Cibies!