Have I Been Ripped Off ?

[Mr S]

Hi

Have 2001 VVTI 1.8 GLS. After a service where rear discs & pads were replaced, car started having a strong metallic burning smell around the rear right wheel. Thought initially it was new pads however after 2 weeks took it back to garage suspecting it was to do with service. Garage was insistent however it was a problem with caliper which only surfaced after discs & pads replaced. They also said other side caliper would likely to need replacing in matter of months. As I was very busy at work and also shortly had long drive to airport for holiday, I made snap decision for them to go ahead. They did and also replaced damaged brake fluid and pad. £667. Drove to airport & as you guess same burning smell around same wheel. On drive back car also started loud whistling (brakey) sound which was continuous by the time I neared home. Complained first thing next morning. How could it have been the calipers at fault. But garage of course said it must have been a dodgy caliper they had fitted. Left it with them all day and they say they have fitted a second new caliper. There is no more burning smell.

Also they said on my last visit that they had fitted refurbished & so they can be faulty. However on looking at my invoice & phoning Toyota today, I see the price they charged £197 is about price of a new caliper.

I will definitely be taking up this last point with garage. Any thoughts, suggestions on all this are all very welcome. If I have a case I every intention to take this as far as possible. I don’t think they are trade assoc - I have been to them about 3 years on a recommendation.

Best Regards

[gazza1286]

A refurbished brake caliper for your vehicle is only approx £70 on this site (on-line catalogue):

http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/

You can see that the discs and pads are also quite cheap. I am not a trained mechanic but I could swap these parts in no more than two hours for both sides (and that's with a 20 minute coffee break)

Add it up. Find another garage.

[Mr S]

A refurbished brake caliper for your vehicle is only approx £70 on this site (on-line catalogue):

http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/

You can see that the discs and pads are also quite cheap. I am not a trained mechanic but I could swap these parts in no more than two hours for both sides (and that's with a 20 minute coffee break)

Add it up. Find another garage.

[Mr S]

A refurbished brake caliper for your vehicle is only approx £70 on this site (on-line catalogue):

http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/

You can see that the discs and pads are also quite cheap. I am not a trained mechanic but I could swap these parts in no more than two hours for both sides (and that's with a 20 minute coffee break)

Add it up. Find another garage.

Thanks Gazza Yes that makes it even worse seeing that. I tell you I have been kicking myself for the last week or so on this. I normally have checked things further for expensive work and this garage has saved me money in the past. However for pulling a stunt like that. They have no repeat business from me.

[JohnYossarian]

A refurbished brake caliper for your vehicle is only approx £70 on this site (on-line catalogue):

http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/

You can see that the discs and pads are also quite cheap. I am not a trained mechanic but I could swap these parts in no more than two hours for both sides (and that's with a 20 minute coffee break)

Add it up. Find another garage.

Thanks Gazza Yes that makes it even worse seeing that. I tell you I have been kicking myself for the last week or so on this. I normally have checked things further for expensive work and this garage has saved me money in the past. However for pulling a stunt like that. They have no repeat business from me.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

I had a similar story sveral years back. The garage changed the pads, did a lousy job, and a week later I had to come in for a change of the caliper. The charged me twice for labour and this waqs the substantial part of the bill. They lost a customer and some time later I bought a new car.

Good luck with sorting it out!

[Mr S]

A refurbished brake caliper for your vehicle is only approx £70 on this site (on-line catalogue):

http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/

You can see that the discs and pads are also quite cheap. I am not a trained mechanic but I could swap these parts in no more than two hours for both sides (and that's with a 20 minute coffee break)

Add it up. Find another garage.

Thanks Gazza Yes that makes it even worse seeing that. I tell you I have been kicking myself for the last week or so on this. I normally have checked things further for expensive work and this garage has saved me money in the past. However for pulling a stunt like that. They have no repeat business from me.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

I had a similar story sveral years back. The garage changed the pads, did a lousy job, and a week later I had to come in for a change of the caliper. The charged me twice for labour and this waqs the substantial part of the bill. They lost a customer and some time later I bought a new car.

Good luck with sorting it out!

Thanks John for your reply. Can a garage really make such a mess of routine job such as pads.

The car has in fact today again developed that whistling squeel from the rear. Pretty loud and vitually now continuous. Garage boss not back until later today - see what he has to say.

[taximark]

Ask for a total refund, the garage have assumed it is a caliper problem and charges you for a part you never needed also charges you an absurd amount, is the garage a dodgy back street one?

You can phone Trading standards up regarding this matter too, do everything to threaten them, its places like this that gives the motor trade a bad name.

You need to take it to a garage you can trust.

[Mr S]

Ask for a total refund, the garage have assumed it is a caliper problem and charges you for a part you never needed also charges you an absurd amount, is the garage a dodgy back street one?

You can phone Trading standards up regarding this matter too, do everything to threaten them, its places like this that gives the motor trade a bad name.

You need to take it to a garage you can trust.

Thanks taximark. My case is even stronger. That wheel is still hot and they cant possibly now say the second replacement caliper was faulty. I am taking it back to them next week but I think they are stumped.

Garage maybe too small.

[gazza1286]

Does your handbrake lever have any free-play? It may be set too tight. The handbrake mechanism on this model is actually shoes which activate on the inside of the brake disk. A burning smell and heat would suggest that this is the problem.

On reflection I cannot see how the caliper would EVER have been the issue. Re-furbished calipiers DO NOT seize!!!! I can't see how a garage could even suggest this???? The ONLY thing that siezes calipers is RUST!!

The problem has been mis-diagnosed from the outset I think. I believe that when they swapped the rear discs and pads the garage hasn't re-set the inner brake shoes correctly hence the rear brake have been partially binding since you had this work done.

Very poor!!

[Starensis]

Does your handbrake lever have any free-play? It may be set too tight. The handbrake mechanism on this model is actually shoes which activate on the inside of the brake disk. A burning smell and heat would suggest that this is the problem.

On reflection I cannot see how the caliper would EVER have been the issue. Re-furbished calipiers DO NOT seize!!!! I can't see how a garage could even suggest this???? The ONLY thing that siezes calipers is RUST!!

The problem has been mis-diagnosed from the outset I think. I believe that when they swapped the rear discs and pads the garage hasn't re-set the inner brake shoes correctly hence the rear brake have been partially binding since you had this work done.

Very poor!!

I must correct you on this. The handbrake works via brake piston. Piston is on thread & everytime you pull your handbrake on the piston compresses pad against disk. As pad wears, the piston then slips onto next thread to remove any need for adjustment.

When replacing rear pads, you need to "Screw" the piston back into caliper ( Special tool required ) or new pads will not fit correctly. It seems like they have not screwed piston all way back & forced pads in or they may have fitted them back-to-front. You can actually fit pad with backplate against disc ( I have done it accidentally but noticed as soon as I drove car ). You will hear a loud scraping noise when brake applied if this is the case.

Another problem may be pad sticking in caliper due to lack of anti-seize grease.

[gazza1286]

Not on this model.

See Haynes page 9.13

This brake set-up uses 'shoes' for the handbrake and Pads for the foot pedal.

Weird I know!! But you seem to have the same model?

[Starensis]

Not on this model.

See Haynes page 9.13

This brake set-up uses 'shoes' for the handbrake and Pads for the foot pedal.

Weird I know!! But you seem to have the same model?

Two brake systems around this time, Bosch & Lockheed......I think. Suppose it depends what month the car was built in 2001. Mine was December & has the system I mentioned earlier.

[gazza1286]

Haynes makes no reference to your system?

That's not really surprising tho. They try and fit as much into one manual as possible so there is bound to be some errors!!

The 'shoes' inside the disc seems to me to be a much more sensible design. I would have far more confidence in that set-up myself. My 96 MR2 has the same system as yours. I park it on a severe incline each night and I'm convinced I'll find it one morning rammed up against my garage door!!

Edit: The 'shoes' set-up was only put on the VVTI model from 2000 - July 2001. Thereafter the single dual rear caliper was used - as per Starensis.

[don21]

It would be unusual on a car of this age and indeed on any Toyota but it is a possibility that you have a partially blocked hydraulic flexy hose which is preventing the brake fluid from releasing the caliper.As you brake the fluid pushes the piston out but on releasing the brake the force on the caliper remains applied.

Just a thought.Good luck and keep us up to date.

[Mr S]

Thanks for your input - I will keep them in mind when I see the garage. Mine is a Jan 01 model so it must have shoes on the handbrake. Gazza might be onto something as I am sure there is quite a bit more free play since the service.

Its getting looked at tomorrow. Will keep you up to date. (Although its my work Christmas party tomorrow night so might not report back until Thurs! )

[Mr S]

The problem has now been resolved. I finally took it to a Toyota garage today. They advised firstly the handbrake was set too tight. And secondly the brake pads that had been fitted didn't fit right, being non-genuine and consequently they found caliper piston was catching on centre of pad. They have replaced pads and adjusted handbrake. Drove back tonight and there is now no longer a hot wheel nor any noise. What a relief!

We have already confronted the original garage on the unnecessary caliper change and have sent a letter requesting a refund. Now we also have confirmation of the true problem - Toyota have written it up in a brief report and given us back the dodgy pads. I will continue to persue it with the garage & hopefully have some luck. Thanks to you all for your replies.

[taximark]

The problem has now been resolved. I finally took it to a Toyota garage today. They advised firstly the handbrake was set too tight. And secondly the brake pads that had been fitted didn't fit right, being non-genuine and consequently they found caliper piston was catching on centre of pad. They have replaced pads and adjusted handbrake. Drove back tonight and there is now no longer a hot wheel nor any noise. What a relief!

We have already confronted the original garage on the unnecessary caliper change and have sent a letter requesting a refund. Now we also have confirmation of the true problem - Toyota have written it up in a brief report and given us back the dodgy pads. I will continue to persue it with the garage & hopefully have some luck. Thanks to you all for your replies.

Glad you sorted the problem however what a poor set up the first garage was let us know how you get on, i would of been well p**** off if it was me - Mark.

[Fidgits]

Mr S - get onto Trading standards immediatly...

It sounds like they charged for work they didnt do (either, greased your existing caliper and charged you for a new one) then flipped to the 'refurbed' excuse when the problem came back.

DO NOT LET IT GO!

Get a full refund and alert trading standards - dont let this happen to someone else!