New Avensis 2009

[SF695]

I don't really get it - BMW have the 3ltr diesels which are greener and cleaner than the d-cat yet A LOT quicker. The M3 is their performance car.

Maybe toyota want to keep their engines clean to give them room trade emissions with bigger lexus engines and thirsty petrol subarus.

Not really familiar with BMW's engine. Just noticed that their 2.0 l4 petrol had better performance numbers, than Toyotas. And to be honest i don't really care about that much about this green policy, that has declined over the car industry. But from what i've heard, BMW uses direct injection in the 2.0 in 320i that i was talking about, along with their version of valvematic, called valvetronic. Which made me wonder, why did Toyota drop the D4 in favor of the Valvematic? Don't the two work together or is it a matter of price? After all the 320 is a little more money than the Avensis. Are the extra 15 hp part of what you get for that extra money?

[Nerfie]

which engines, specifically, are you referring too oldskool?

Also note that BMW and Toyota have a Engine manufacturing and design agreement, which is why there engines should be similiar. I believe, unless I just made that up. :\

[SF695]

Also note that BMW and Toyota have a Engine manufacturing and design agreement, which is why there engines should be similiar. I believe, unless I just made that up. :\

What kind of agreement do you mean? Regarding CO2 outled?

[Nerfie]

They work on them together, I believe. Two heads are better then one so to speak.....

-edit- hmm just did a quick google... I think what I was looking at back along was when Toyota was supplying BMW with diesel engines... just the way it worded it, made it sound like they were working together to design and build engines. My mistake.

[SF695]

They work on them together, I believe. Two heads are better then one so to speak.....

-edit- hmm just did a quick google... I think what I was looking at back along was when Toyota was supplying BMW with diesel engines... just the way it worded it, made it sound like they were working together to design and build engines. My mistake.

Pjew, you got me worried there. Up until now i felt safe to believe that Toyota and BMW were 2 of the few car manifacturers, that made their own engine. With a little help from Yamaha and Alpina.

Regarding the diesel engines, it makes sence, since BMW to my knowledge are relatively new in the diesel catagory

[OldSkoO1]

which engines, specifically, are you referring too oldskool?

Also note that BMW and Toyota have a Engine manufacturing and design agreement, which is why there engines should be similiar. I believe, unless I just made that up. :\

All the bmw diesels really

But the two main diesels are

2.0 diesel - co2: 130g/km / 57.6mpg / 177bhp / 0-60: 8.1 / 350nm

3.0 diesel - co2: 155g/km / 47.9mpg / 245bhp / 0-60: 6.2 / 500nm

Frankly the 2.0 diesel is the d-cat equivalent in terms of power yet the bmw emits far less co2, is the same 0-60 yet does nearly 60mpg v the 45mpg on the toyota.

The 3.0ltr 6 cylinder is astonishing - same co2 as the toyota yet better mpg and massively quicker.

Taken from : http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesandspecif...t-bmwuk,00.html

[Nerfie]

And the the torque for the engines?

[OldSkoO1]

350nm 2.0

500nm 3.0

both available from just 1750rpm

[SF695]

Nobody got an answer to the D4 vs. Valvematic question?

Well, i've heard something about BMW having trouble fitting their Valvetronic system alongside the direct injection, because of space on the top of the cylinder.

Did Toyota have the same problem and is this the reason for why D4 had to go in favor of Valvematic?

[OldSkoO1]

videos

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xuOH2KSm3n4

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VG4KPiDDjq8

http://www.whatcar.com/popups/video_news_w...mv&vtype=WM

[SF695]

Maybe i'm looking at this the wrong way.

If there was a turbo version, i'd be all over it. But like the turbo, hybrid does increase the power. Maybe i should just think of hybrid as an alternative to turbo

[Mister MMT]

Maybe i'm looking at this the wrong way.

If there was a turbo version, i'd be all over it. But like the turbo, hybrid does increase the power. Maybe i should just think of hybrid as an alternative to turbo

That's right. If Toyota combined the 1.8 L with an electric engine into a hybrid, any model equipped with it will be more impressive then a turbo, and be more fuel efficient.

I bet that hybrid will come up within one year of the launch date of the Avensis III, but also available in the Corolla Verso successor, and maybe even the Auris..

Jan

[SF695]

Maybe i'm looking at this the wrong way.

If there was a turbo version, i'd be all over it. But like the turbo, hybrid does increase the power. Maybe i should just think of hybrid as an alternative to turbo

That's right. If Toyota combined the 1.8 L with an electric engine into a hybrid, any model equipped with it will be more impressive then a turbo, and be more fuel efficient.

I bet that hybrid will come up within one year of the launch date of the Avensis III, but also available in the Corolla Verso successor, and maybe even the Auris..

Jan

Yeah. Remember the first version of the Avensis got a facelift in 2000. Along with the facelift it also received more powerful engines, with VVT-i and some even with D4 if my memory serves me.

BTW Mister MMT, you seem to know a great deal about cars. So i was hoping you could answer the question why D4 was dropped. The only real information i've got about it, conserns BMW, not Toyota. And that they were having problems, fitting direct injection along with their Valvetronic system, because of space

[Mister MMT]

Yeah. Remember the first version of the Avensis got a facelift in 2000. Along with the facelift it also received more powerful engines, with VVT-i and some even with D4 if my memory serves me.

BTW Mister MMT, you seem to know a great deal about cars. So i was hoping you could answer the question why D4 was dropped. The only real information i've got about it, conserns BMW, not Toyota. And that they were having problems, fitting direct injection along with their Valvetronic system, because of space

You're right about facelifts, but the hybrid version will come before that.

When looking at a scheme provided by Toyota, it is hard for me to understand it would be matter problems with fitting direct injectors. Unless very mistaken, I cannot see why the addition of a valve lift mechanism would be incompatible with direct injection. Dual VVT_i ist not incompatible (see below). There may be other reasons that have to do with the motor management when the valve system is so sophisticated. COuld this be in conlfict with steering direct injection?

Toyota also has another line of engines called 4D S Twin injection:

Quote: The 2GR-FSE engine used in the Lexus IS 350 incorporates Toyota's D4-S twin injection system. This system combines gasoline direct injection with traditional port injection. Using direct injection and port injection simultaneously facilitates more precise mixing of air and fuel under low and medium load conditions for greater efficiency, while high load conditions dictate the use of direct injection alone for maximum power. The 2GR-FSE engine is rated at 315 PS (311 hp/232 kW) at 6,400 RPM and 38.4 kg·m (377 N·m/278 ft·lbf) at 4,800 RPM.

The GR-FE engines use dual VVT-i and direct injection.

But I'm afraid my explanations fail to really making the point. I hope a real expert can help us.

Jan

[SF695]

Yeah. Remember the first version of the Avensis got a facelift in 2000. Along with the facelift it also received more powerful engines, with VVT-i and some even with D4 if my memory serves me.

BTW Mister MMT, you seem to know a great deal about cars. So i was hoping you could answer the question why D4 was dropped. The only real information i've got about it, conserns BMW, not Toyota. And that they were having problems, fitting direct injection along with their Valvetronic system, because of space

You're right about facelifts, but the hybrid version will come before that.

When looking at a scheme provided by Toyota, it is hard for me to understand it would be matter problems with fitting direct injectors. Unless very mistaken, I cannot see why the addition of a valve lift mechanism would be incompatible with direct injection. Dual VVT_i ist not incompatible (see below). There may be other reasons that have to do with the motor management when the valve system is so sophisticated. COuld this be in conlfict with steering direct injection?

Toyota also has another line of engines called 4D S Twin injection:

Quote: The 2GR-FSE engine used in the Lexus IS 350 incorporates Toyota's D4-S twin injection system. This system combines gasoline direct injection with traditional port injection. Using direct injection and port injection simultaneously facilitates more precise mixing of air and fuel under low and medium load conditions for greater efficiency, while high load conditions dictate the use of direct injection alone for maximum power. The 2GR-FSE engine is rated at 315 PS (311 hp/232 kW) at 6,400 RPM and 38.4 kg·m (377 N·m/278 ft·lbf) at 4,800 RPM.

The GR-FE engines use dual VVT-i and direct injection.

But I'm afraid my explanations fail to really making the point. I hope a real expert can help us.

Jan

Maybe they don't wanna try 2 relatively new things at the same time, allthough the D4 has been tried and tested for some years now. After all, Toyota's trademark is first of all reliability.

One advantage with D4 if i understood it correctly-is that it allowes for to use higher compression, even with relatively low octan fuel, because of the effective spread of the fuel, directly into the cylinder.

Anyway, i guess after Valvematic has been tried and tested for some time, we'll see both systems on the same engines. And as you say, it migth be a question about engine management, that needs solving first.

[silverarrow]

what car have a good clear picture

[shuffly]

My dealer gave me some bumph today.

prices go from £16095 for a 1.8 saloon, estate is £1000 dearer.

T2 Sal £16095

T2 D4D £16895

TR Sal £17845

TR D4d £18645

T4 Sal £19845

T4 D4d £20145

T spirit D4D £22995

Tourer £24595

All are manual, the Auto is called the Multidrive S, and its a CVT sequential shift. No MMT

It looks fab, nicer than the Honda and up there with the premium stuff. There' s 3 diesels, the higher ones having 150 and 180 BHP.

Ian

[dawesy]

from what ive seem at work they all seem to have a good spec/ equipment levels. nice to drive too

[OldSkoO1]

from what ive seem at work they all seem to have a good spec/ equipment levels. nice to drive too

Do any of them have that stupid wood effect centre panel?

[irishjay]

Will never ever ever buy another toyota , most unreliable car ive owned and to be honest will never take a chance again

[slarti54]

What was wrong with it?

[irishjay]

What was wrong with it?

head gasket gone at 49k!! injectors gone at 48k !!!clunky clutch ,,squeaky dashboard ,, all common problems with the 2.2 b ut no recall , these problems are not cheap to fix , thank god its under warranty , next year getting sold

[Tawse57]

That is very expensive for a car in any climate let alone in the World's biggest credit crisis since 1929. No one in their right mind, IMPO, would use their own money to buy one of those as, give it a year or two, and used ones will be 10K if that. Also, trends are that people are no longer buying family saloons.

I am shocked at those prices. Nuts.

[OldSkoO1]

That is very expensive for a car in any climate let alone in the World's biggest credit crisis since 1929. No one in their right mind, IMPO, would use their own money to buy one of those as, give it a year or two, and used ones will be 10K if that. Also, trends are that people are no longer buying family saloons.

I am shocked at those prices. Nuts.

They are all inline with other manufacturers. Its a lot of cash but as you say after a year or 2 you will get a lot of car for pretty good money.

I will need an estate so if i don't go for something else i will probably be looking at the new avensis tourer t180, with leather and nav. I bet i could get one for 17k under 2 years old.

[Pat2u]

I got my name down to view the new avensis which is due in my dealership in mid december, however i have a T180 tourer just over 12 months old and i was thinking part X towards the new one, now i am having second thoughts as the prices have fallen so far that i feel i will not get a decent price for mine which is in pristine condition with less than 6000 on the clock and i feel that what i get offered now in part X i will get same offer in another 12 months time due to this credit crunch, i still going to my dealers and if i do get a good deal i may consider the exchange, what do you guys think ?