Dual Mass Flywheels

[anchorman]

Bluepoint SMF every time,completely changes the car,it becomes smoother and quieter,just my 10 penneth worth,lol

The ones I have changed only had the DMF's implode,clutches were still good,so I stand corrected about no drive.It's the correct procedure to change clutch plates and thrust bearings/CARM units when replacing anything to do with clutches,the lot has to be changed otherwise it becomes false economy,nobody wants to take a gearbox out twice.

What is a CARM unit? Not familiar with that term.

[HEMI]

A lot of cars have them now,it stands for Clutch Actuating Release Mechanism,basically its a slave cylinder and thrust bearing in one,all Fords have them,Volvo's have them and when they leak you have to take the gearbox out to replace them

[anchorman]

A lot of cars have them now,it stands for Clutch Actuating Release Mechanism,basically its a slave cylinder and thrust bearing in one,all Fords have them,Volvo's have them and when they leak you have to take the gearbox out to replace them

OK - now I know what you are talking about. Toyota call it a CSC (Concentric Slave Cylinder) and use it on the new petrol 6 speed box;

Slave_cylinder.pdf

[HEMI]

Yeah,different companies call them different names,they're still a rubbish idea,I mean burying something thats gonna leak right in the middle of it's guts,whats wrong with the old slave cyl design,it leaked,you changed it,20 mins max with bleeding,now its 8 hours,makes me larf

[chatman]

makes me larf

Is that before you tell the customer or after when they are paying the bill :P :P :P

Toyota must have a fleecing department to see what they can design and then get lots of money out of their customers when the parts fail... I believe the Run Flats where the last one to be developed by this department..... :o :o

[londonmark]

UPDATE!!!

I took the car to Toyota in Poole and they test drove it and advised that the DMF and clutch are fine however the did aagree there was a slight viberation as I have discribed previously. They sia it could be the gear selector cables which were a known fault but mine is meant to have had modified versions of these. They did offer to stip down the box for 3-4 hrs labour to investegate but I declined! I will live with it!

Can anybody reccomend a decent independant garage to do a 60K service on this car in the Poole area?

Thanks

Mark

[OldSkoO1]

Unless i have missed it in this thread;

Is there anything you can do (like clutch control, acceleration etc) to delay the onset of DMF failure, or even prevent it.

Also no-one has really explained what puts the DMF under excessive stress.

I'm hoping there are some techniques you can do to extend it's life but as no-one as explained this yet, i'm remaining pessimistic.

[chatman]

Unless i have missed it in this thread;

Is there anything you can do (like clutch control, acceleration etc) to delay the onset of DMF failure, or even prevent it.

Also no-one has really explained what puts the DMF under excessive stress.

I'm hoping there are some techniques you can do to extend it's life but as no-one as explained this yet, i'm remaining pessimistic.

OldSko01.......... the DMF thread has gone on a long time.... If you go back to the very first page of this topic, Anchorman describes and details the DMF issues and uses very well, along with diagrams and pictures... this I feel has been slightly lost in this thread....

I did ask him when at JAE, that maybe taking out all these replies and placing in a different thread away from this first thread, as it is meant as a technical explanation to the DMF issues...

[anchorman]

As Chatters put forward this very good idea, the thread in the information section is now locked but has a link to this discussion thread. It was getting too big and the original information was being overlooked.

[chatman]

As Chatters put forward this very good idea, the thread in the information section is now locked but has a link to this discussion thread. It was getting too big and the original information was being overlooked.

Top result Anchorman.... :toast:

Your moderator status used to the max ;) ;) ;)

[OldSkoO1]

Thanks guys

Really i was looking for practical examples we could use to preserve or reduce the chance of failure.

The text really does explain what the function of a DMF is, better than most other texts.

However Anchorman says "Whether the DMF fails depends on what kind of duty the vehicle is subjected to and to some extent the way the vehicle is driven. ".

I was looking for some elaboration on this, as the opposite of this elaboration may help reduce wear on the DMF.

[Davrav]

Thanks guys

Really i was looking for practical examples we could use to preserve or reduce the chance of failure.

The text really does explain what the function of a DMF is, better than most other texts.

However Anchorman says "Whether the DMF fails depends on what kind of duty the vehicle is subjected to and to some extent the way the vehicle is driven. ".

I was looking for some elaboration on this, as the opposite of this elaboration may help reduce wear on the DMF.

This is an American article relating to inspection of DMFs but it touches on reasons they are fitted and on causes of failure - mainly down to over exhuberant use of the torque available if you read between the lines:

LINK

From what I can make out, 'smooth and steady' is the best approach. Avoid overrevving and dropping the clutch, don't let the egine 'lug', avoid slipping the clutch and don't overdo it if towing.

In other words, treat your Diesel RAV like a stately saloon rather than a hot hatch. Boring I know but it might help

[anchorman]

I will just add to that - we had some info recently to say that the dmf is subjected to the highest shock at very low revs - 600 to 1000rpm.

[Davrav]

I will just add to that - we had some info recently to say that the dmf is subjected to the highest shock at very low revs - 600 to 1000rpm.

I think it was this article:

LINK

[anchorman]

I will just add to that - we had some info recently to say that the dmf is subjected to the highest shock at very low revs - 600 to 1000rpm.

I think it was this article:

LINK

Aye I think you're right. Obviously this is below the normal driving range so probably nothing can be done to avoid it in terms of driving style.

[tash2007]

I've had the Blueprint kit (that was supplied to the garage by a local motor factor) fitted now and all is very smooth indeed.

I've got the clutch kit they took out but not managed to take any pictures, there's nothing untoward to see though anyway, the bearing has put an even wear mark on the clutch springs, the friction plate has been running centrally on the flywheel and pressure plate, the release bearing looks as if it may run a tiny bit out when rotated but it's very hard to tell.

I cant help on the legal side but I did say go for the Blueprint kit,much better quality,you pays your money etc,.the kit that Russ supplied had no manufacturers markings which always makes me think,hmmmm,none of my suppliers had ever heard of Comline.

As far as warranty goes if the part was faulty(obviously so)then they should pay for all the work and parts

hi my first post, just had blueprint kit fitted by independent firm, on the whole things much improved so far - however I have a small vibration on the clutch pedal (similar to that tc123). not noticeable at tickover, or lowish revs but you can sure feel it when changing up at higher revs or revving engine with clutch in (i.e. pedal down) - so my question is it worth all the agro to trry and get this "perfect"? if i can live with it will it get worse/better/ fail/??????

cheers

tash

[HEMI]

I cant remember if it was me that fitted that clutch to tc123(I cant remember his username,its my age,lol)but the one I fitted to a forum member but he supplied the clutch kit which wasnt a blueprint kit did in fact have a very small vibe which he pointed out to me the next day but he said he would try it for a while and see what happens,well so far he hasnt got back to me so I'm assuming that all is well and that was ages ago.(you watch,he'll ring me today,lol)

[tash2007]

I cant remember if it was me that fitted that clutch to tc123(I cant remember his username,its my age,lol)but the one I fitted to a forum member but he supplied the clutch kit which wasnt a blueprint kit did in fact have a very small vibe which he pointed out to me the next day but he said he would try it for a while and see what happens,well so far he hasnt got back to me so I'm assuming that all is well and that was ages ago.(you watch,he'll ring me today,lol)

thanks for that Hemi

we just done 300 odd miles over two days - mix of Mways and (clogged) A's - apart from the vibe, it has transformed the car - remarkably quieter, smoother (both more than I ever remember,but I've had it 7 years so probly forgot.....), somehow it feels more "planted" on the road (maybe I'm hearing/feeling more useful/reassuring driving info from the tyres/suspension etc now that the racket/vibes from the DMF has gone?)

As long as the vibe isn't going to turn into another b@llache I think I can live with it - only really felt when "charging" LOL, round town, queuing in %$(in traffic jams etc it's a non-issue -

Hemi - in your experience will running with a slightly non-true release bearing cause me further avoidable mechanical grief?

cheers

tash

[HEMI]

if it at all was not "true" you would have troubles from the word go,I cant see it being not "true"as it fits in its own locaters and the input shaft goes through the centre of it,stop worrying and enjoy your "smoother"car

[tash2007]

if it at all was not "true" you would have troubles from the word go,I cant see it being not "true"as it fits in its own locaters and the input shaft goes through the centre of it,stop worrying and enjoy your "smoother"car

ok maybe "out of true" is the wrong expression....

So out of curiosity then - what's making the noise i can feel/hear? a rough bearing? or out of true clutch plate fingers? or someat else?

(I'm just seeking reassurances that I can safely ignore this issue and not be lining myself up for another grands worth of woe

cheers

tash

[capstar1]

In the past couple of weeks I have noticed a vibration when changing up into top gear and it is very noticable if I accelerate. Also when its cold there is a slight clutch judder when pulling away. I am assuming after reading this topic that the DMF is on the way out.

The car is five years old on 24th Sept and has only done 46000 miles. My plan is to get it into the dealer on Wednesday (my day off) for them to test.

I'm not sure If mine was fitted with the modified flywheel excluding me from the extended warranty or not.

[anchorman]

In the past couple of weeks I have noticed a vibration when changing up into top gear and it is very noticable if I accelerate. Also when its cold there is a slight clutch judder when pulling away. I am assuming after reading this topic that the DMF is on the way out.

The car is five years old on 24th Sept and has only done 46000 miles. My plan is to get it into the dealer on Wednesday (my day off) for them to test.

I'm not sure If mine was fitted with the modified flywheel excluding me from the extended warranty or not.

You might be in with a shout there. Although the extended warranty has officially ended they do pop up and honour one every now and again.

Good luck.

[HEMI]

mine had the "modified"clutch according to Toyota,lasted 63k,guess what Toyota told me,lol,

[HEMI]

if it at all was not "true" you would have troubles from the word go,I cant see it being not "true"as it fits in its own locaters and the input shaft goes through the centre of it,stop worrying and enjoy your "smoother"car

ok maybe "out of true" is the wrong expression....

So out of curiosity then - what's making the noise i can feel/hear? a rough bearing? or out of true clutch plate fingers? or someat else?

(I'm just seeking reassurances that I can safely ignore this issue and not be lining myself up for another grands worth of woe

cheers

tash

if its rough,why dont you take it back to whoever fitted it?or is it out of the 12months warranty?

[tash2007]

if it at all was not "true" you would have troubles from the word go,I cant see it being not "true"as it fits in its own locaters and the input shaft goes through the centre of it,stop worrying and enjoy your "smoother"car

ok maybe "out of true" is the wrong expression....

So out of curiosity then - what's making the noise i can feel/hear? a rough bearing? or out of true clutch plate fingers? or someat else?

(I'm just seeking reassurances that I can safely ignore this issue and not be lining myself up for another grands worth of woe

cheers

tash

if its rough,why dont you take it back to whoever fitted it?or is it out of the 12months warranty?

cos i supplied the kit and they fitted it...like position tc123 was in - there is the potential difficulty of proving parts at fault or fitting at fault.....

can anyone give any constructive help on the release bearing vibe/noise?