Dual Mass Flywheels

[HEMI]

I cant see a fitting fault really cos its just like a jigsaw really,it just fits together(I know that easy for me to say,lol)so it must be a component part,are you sure all the parts were blueprint or ADL?

[capstar1]

In the past couple of weeks I have noticed a vibration when changing up into top gear and it is very noticable if I accelerate. Also when its cold there is a slight clutch judder when pulling away. I am assuming after reading this topic that the DMF is on the way out.

The car is five years old on 24th Sept and has only done 46000 miles. My plan is to get it into the dealer on Wednesday (my day off) for them to test.

I'm not sure If mine was fitted with the modified flywheel excluding me from the extended warranty or not.

You might be in with a shout there. Although the extended warranty has officially ended they do pop up and honour one every now and again.

Good luck.

I phoned arnold clarke's in stirling and explained to the service department chap about my suspicions and he said I would have to book it in for an hour in order for them to test it at a cost of £71 plus Vat so I said I would get back to them. SDM Toyota in Falkirk told me just to bring it in and I could go out for a test drive with the mechanic at no cost!

I also have a policy with Warranty direct and when I took that out I was honest enough to explain to him my concerns about the DMF and he told me that the flywheel was covered and the warranty book does include flywheel although it does not specify DMF. It also doesn't exclude it. Fingers crossed

[MarsKy]

In the past couple of weeks I have noticed a vibration when changing up into top gear and it is very noticable if I accelerate. Also when its cold there is a slight clutch judder when pulling away. I am assuming after reading this topic that the DMF is on the way out.

The car is five years old on 24th Sept and has only done 46000 miles. My plan is to get it into the dealer on Wednesday (my day off) for them to test.

I'm not sure If mine was fitted with the modified flywheel excluding me from the extended warranty or not.

You might be in with a shout there. Although the extended warranty has officially ended they do pop up and honour one every now and again.

Good luck.

I phoned arnold clarke's in stirling and explained to the service department chap about my suspicions and he said I would have to book it in for an hour in order for them to test it at a cost of £71 plus Vat so I said I would get back to them. SDM Toyota in Falkirk told me just to bring it in and I could go out for a test drive with the mechanic at no cost!

I also have a policy with Warranty direct and when I took that out I was honest enough to explain to him my concerns about the DMF and he told me that the flywheel was covered and the warranty book does include flywheel although it does not specify DMF. It also doesn't exclude it. Fingers crossed

Urgh - Warranty Direct. I had a policy with them some years ago. Air conditioning went kaput and I had a legitimate claim. They would only pay up if I took the car to a garage, got the unit out, and let their engineer inspect it (and no timescale on when he would come out). If their engineer accepted the claim, they would only replace with reconditioned parts. If he rejected the claim, I would have to pay for the garage's time and labour in taking the unit out, and their engineer's time. So, check your terms and conditions.

[capstar1]

In the past couple of weeks I have noticed a vibration when changing up into top gear and it is very noticable if I accelerate. Also when its cold there is a slight clutch judder when pulling away. I am assuming after reading this topic that the DMF is on the way out.

The car is five years old on 24th Sept and has only done 46000 miles. My plan is to get it into the dealer on Wednesday (my day off) for them to test.

I'm not sure If mine was fitted with the modified flywheel excluding me from the extended warranty or not.

You might be in with a shout there. Although the extended warranty has officially ended they do pop up and honour one every now and again.

Good luck.

I phoned arnold clarke's in stirling and explained to the service department chap about my suspicions and he said I would have to book it in for an hour in order for them to test it at a cost of £71 plus Vat so I said I would get back to them. SDM Toyota in Falkirk told me just to bring it in and I could go out for a test drive with the mechanic at no cost!

I also have a policy with Warranty direct and when I took that out I was honest enough to explain to him my concerns about the DMF and he told me that the flywheel was covered and the warranty book does include flywheel although it does not specify DMF. It also doesn't exclude it. Fingers crossed

Urgh - Warranty Direct. I had a policy with them some years ago. Air conditioning went kaput and I had a legitimate claim. They would only pay up if I took the car to a garage, got the unit out, and let their engineer inspect it (and no timescale on when he would come out). If their engineer accepted the claim, they would only replace with reconditioned parts. If he rejected the claim, I would have to pay for the garage's time and labour in taking the unit out, and their engineer's time. So, check your terms and conditions.

Thanks for the info. I will check the policy over the next couple of days

The other problem I face is that it's not broken yet Just on its way to breaking.

[tash2007]

I cant see a fitting fault really cos its just like a jigsaw really,it just fits together(I know that easy for me to say,lol)so it must be a component part,are you sure all the parts were blueprint or ADL?

yup, all in a sealed blue print box, flywheel in a seperate inner blue print box....

[tc123]

Just to conclude my story, I have finally got a refund for the Comline SMF kit plus £150 labour contribution

It took a lot of chasing up and Midland Car Spares told me that the factory (in Japan or similar I think) tested the kit and concluded it wasn't faulty but Comline (the UK distributor) honoured my claim as goodwill basically. I guess because they wanted to keep Midland Car Spares happy who probably spend a lot of money with them.

My advice is definitely let the garage doing the job supply the parts, even if it costs a bit more!

And definitely go for an ADL BLUEPRINT kit in any case!

[HEMI]

glad you got it sorted,my wifes Rav still has no issues with the Blueprint clutch and I changed that in May(I think,lol)

[HEMI]

sorry to drag this up again but there's a new victim to the DMF,I know its not a RAV but I thought I'd let you know,its a Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6d 54plate with 35000m and the DMF is knackered,unfortunately nobody supplies a SMF fot it so I am having to fit a DMF to it,it's a murderous job,200% worse than anything I've changed before(it is my first Citroen picasso though,lol)my point is that at least the Rav goes about 60k before failure and not 35k

[anchorman]

A very good point HEMI and one I've raised many times. Are you sure your spanners won't go on strike before they will tackle fitting a new DMF!!! :D :D :D

I hate French cars. They can make even the most straight forward job into a nightmare.

Good luck

[HEMI]

A very good point HEMI and one I've raised many times. Are you sure your spanners won't go on strike before they will tackle fitting a new DMF!!! :D :D :D

I hate French cars. They can make even the most straight forward job into a nightmare.

Good luck

I hate french cars too,this bl00dy picasso,grrr,you have to take out the DPF and all its cr@p just to get to ONE bolt,then you have to remove the DPF mounting stud so you can get said bolt...........9 hours labour according to the ICME times,yeah 2 of them to remove the DPF,lol

[biznesland]

Hi Anchorman,

I am new to the forum, I have rav4 D-4D Dec 03 with 91000 on the clock owned it for 6 months, I started hearinga grinding noise when changing low gears and reverse,also felt vibration noises on the clutch at the same time, initially didnt think much of until one day when driving heard bang as if had run over something then 5 miles down the road I lost drive while on 5th gear. The engine was raving but gears stop enganging. I got towed by RAC to the nearest garage. The RAC man suggested gearbox problem, my local garage thought its the clutch. The took it apart and said the clutch and DMF looked ok. They think its the gearbox. Used gearbox quoted £ 1200 online. A local gearbox specialist charges £ 300.00 to look at the box alone no plus the cost of repair no guarantees off course.

I tried to call TUK for some advise they said I should go to my local dealer. My local dealer won't give any help over the phone, i have to take the car in for inspection. Unfortunately the car is not mobile and i already owe my local garage nealry 10 hours of labour.

I am concerned if my local gearbox specialist have a look at it and failed i could 300 pounds out of pocket and back to zero.

can anyone help with any good advise

[chatman]

Hi Anchorman,

I am new to the forum, I have rav4 D-4D Dec 03 with 91000 on the clock owned it for 6 months, I started hearinga grinding noise when changing low gears and reverse,also felt vibration noises on the clutch at the same time, initially didnt think much of until one day when driving heard bang as if had run over something then 5 miles down the road I lost drive while on 5th gear. The engine was raving but gears stop enganging. I got towed by RAC to the nearest garage. The RAC man suggested gearbox problem, my local garage thought its the clutch. The took it apart and said the clutch and DMF looked ok. They think its the gearbox. Used gearbox quoted £ 1200 online. A local gearbox specialist charges £ 300.00 to look at the box alone no plus the cost of repair no guarantees off course.

I tried to call TUK for some advise they said I should go to my local dealer. My local dealer won't give any help over the phone, i have to take the car in for inspection. Unfortunately the car is not mobile and i already owe my local garage nealry 10 hours of labour.

I am concerned if my local gearbox specialist have a look at it and failed i could 300 pounds out of pocket and back to zero.

can anyone help with any good advise

Err you cant tow a RAV it's permanent 4x4 only to be loaded onto a low loader.... what you are saying all points to the dmf failure... issue. when mine went..(I never heard any loud bang though) just lost all drive and not able to get into gear at all....

There have been issues of the fith gear poping out but this does not require a new gearbox.. as it can be done in situ.

Did you see the dmf the garage took out to inspect or not?....for comparison look at the thread at the top of the RAV section about dmf's, as this has pictures of my blown one.... just to give you an idea....

[anchorman]

You should tell the garage to remove the DMF to inspect it as it isn't always visible installed. This TSB is really for the later 4.3 but it still applies. In particular they should pay attention to parts 3-6;

4.3_DMF_check_procedure.pdf

A decent garage should know how to diagnose a gearbox fault but if you have to spell it out to them they should install the driveshafts and then select the various gears at the linkage on the box then turn the input shaft. Any roughness or lack of drive will indicate a problem. As Chatter's says, 5th gear is easily repairable. However, I have to say that the difficulty in selecting gears and the noises you heard make the DMF the likely culprit.

[biznesland]

You should tell the garage to remove the DMF to inspect it as it isn't always visible installed. This TSB is really for the later 4.3 but it still applies. In particular they should pay attention to parts 3-6;

4.3_DMF_check_procedure.pdf

A decent garage should know how to diagnose a gearbox fault but if you have to spell it out to them they should install the driveshafts and then select the various gears at the linkage on the box then turn the input shaft. Any roughness or lack of drive will indicate a problem. As Chatter's says, 5th gear is easily repairable. However, I have to say that the difficulty in selecting gears and the noises you heard make the DMF the likely culprit.

Sorry my mistake, the motor was not towed but carried on a track

Thanks you both your advise, I printed the DMF notes and the pic in COLOURS from the top of the thread and showed it to the to garage. They didn't take the DMF out to investigate in my presence but they told me that they have looked at it but couldn't see any visible damage.

I decided to bite the bullet and get my box examined for 300 pounds and the local gearbox specialist said he is 90% sure its the box thats broken and not the transmission based on initial inspection at the garage. He took the box away to his workshop for "treatment". He also claimed that he has done a few Rav box before.

I am waiting for the outcome next week, will post the progress as soon as.

[HEMI]

You should tell the garage to remove the DMF to inspect it as it isn't always visible installed. This TSB is really for the later 4.3 but it still applies. In particular they should pay attention to parts 3-6;

4.3_DMF_check_procedure.pdf

A decent garage should know how to diagnose a gearbox fault but if you have to spell it out to them they should install the driveshafts and then select the various gears at the linkage on the box then turn the input shaft. Any roughness or lack of drive will indicate a problem. As Chatter's says, 5th gear is easily repairable. However, I have to say that the difficulty in selecting gears and the noises you heard make the DMF the likely culprit.

Sorry my mistake, the motor was not towed but carried on a track

Thanks you both your advise, I printed the DMF notes and the pic in COLOURS from the top of the thread and showed it to the to garage. They didn't take the DMF out to investigate in my presence but they told me that they have looked at it but couldn't see any visible damage.

I decided to bite the bullet and get my box examined for 300 pounds and the local gearbox specialist said he is 90% sure its the box thats broken and not the transmission based on initial inspection at the garage. He took the box away to his workshop for "treatment". He also claimed that he has done a few Rav box before.

I am waiting for the outcome next week, will post the progress as soon as.

Hello everyone,its me again,lol,how can the garage in question say its not the DMF if they haven't took it off?,the clutch diaphragm hides the flywheel!.You can do a quick test by trying to turn it left to right,if it doesnt move at all its screwed,if it moves more than say 12-2 o'clock its screwed and if you can move it in or out,up or down(a bit like testing ball joints)then its screwed.I am 99.9% sure it's your DMF as I've never heard of a Toyota box packing in(not saying there hasn't been one though) and whether you change it for another DMF or a SMF is up to you but I would use a......well you know what I use,lol

[biznesland]

Thanks for your comments

Update!

Today I heard from the garage, as we all suspected there is nothing wrong with the box, it was DMF all along. Not to mention that I never had any problem with enganging all the gear including 5th before and after the breakdown. Anyway the box specialist explain to them how to check rav DMF faults thats my guess. They have order a SMF kit for about 280 from their reputable supplier and should have it fitted on wed morning. They quoted a final estimate bill for me of 1,300+ or there about, which I believe could have been a bit lower if they didn't waste time on a wild goose chase. I will keep you posted when I get the motor back. Does any one know if using SMF cause any damage to my motor? Do you think I should change the clutch as well?

[local hero]

Thanks for your comments

Update!

Today I heard from the garage, as we all suspected there is nothing wrong with the box, it was DMF all along. Not to mention that I never had any problem with enganging all the gear including 5th before and after the breakdown. Anyway the box specialist explain to them how to check rav DMF faults thats my guess. They have order a SMF kit for about 280 from their reputable supplier and should have it fitted on wed morning. They quoted a final estimate bill for me of 1,300+ or there about, which I believe could have been a bit lower if they didn't waste time on a wild goose chase. I will keep you posted when I get the motor back. Does any one know if using SMF cause any damage to my motor? Do you think I should change the clutch as well?

If the part (SMF) is £280 then £1000 labour seems rather expensive to me, The lowest quote from an indipendent I got was £1100 albeit 2 yrs ago but that was for OEM clutch + DMF inc vat, Mr Ts price at their very expensive labour rates was £1600, I drive a black cab + lots of us have had Smfs fitted

some of which have done 150,000mls+ without any probs whatsoever + yes personally I would renew the clutch as well, but I am no expert, Hope this helps Stew... PS my clutch + dmf were done at Mr T(its a long story) car was picked up at 0900 and was ready at 1600 so i assume a max 7hrs labour including lunch break

[biznesland]

Update!

Thanks for all your comments, i got a call from the garag, the new SMF is in, didn't need to replace the clutch apparently. They test drive it and its fine.

ONE SMALL PROBLEM though the ABS sensor has come on, they said its the front right had side sensor that is gone, they have offered free labour to replace it, but I have to pay for the part, which is nearly 200. Is it possible that it was damage while they where taking out the DMF etc.? Theys said maybe the vibration when the DMF failed might have cause the damage. However when the DMF failed I did not see any warning light on the dashboard. I strongly believe they knocked it while putting the bits back together. Unfortunately I have no way of proving this....Has anyone had a similar experience or who knows how I can prove that the garage could be liable for this?

[anchorman]

It seems a remarkable coincidence and it is quite feasible. Probably the only way is to get somebody independant to look at it or even suggest to the garage that you are going to do so.

[biznesland]

It seems a remarkable coincidence and it is quite feasible. Probably the only way is to get somebody independant to look at it or even suggest to the garage that you are going to do so.

Thanks Anchorman,

I have got the RAV back yesterday, drives fine but I can still feel very faint vibration under the clutch when changing low gears

Should I be concerned?

Update on that ABS sensor ehh it has been ordered, booked in for next week. Yet to agree on payments

[mabozar]

It seems a remarkable coincidence and it is quite feasible. Probably the only way is to get somebody independant to look at it or even suggest to the garage that you are going to do so.

Thanks Anchorman,

I have got the RAV back yesterday, drives fine but I can still feel very faint vibration under the clutch when changing low gears

Should I be concerned?

Update on that ABS sensor ehh it has been ordered, booked in for next week. Yet to agree on payments

Hi Anchorman,

I`ve not been on the forum for a while now wife was ill, I`ve read every post from page one,I have a 2001 4DTD Rav 4 62000 miles I thought my exhaust had gone because of the noise it was making,not had any problems so far apart from the usual stuff what I`m worried about is in one of the posts cant find it now it says if you have a diesel rav 4 this will happen my question is when we are going down the M74 next Sat. can you advise me please,

[anchorman]

Hi - sorry to hear about your wife.

If I understand you properly, you are asking if the dmf will fail on your forthcoming journey?

TBH I wish I could predict with that amount of certainty but I can assure you that certain it is not. You have to put this into perspective and there are RAVs out there that have done astronomical mileages without any dmf trouble. It is true to say that many of the cases we hear of failures are in this kind of ball park mileage but it isn't a certainty.

Your noise may well be down to your exhaust and all I can suggest is that you take it to an exhaust centre or a garage for further advice. You should not be afraid of running your car because of the possibilty of something going wrong and hopefully a trip to the garage might reassure you.

Best of luck and let me know if I can answer anything else.

[mabozar]

Hi - sorry to hear about your wife.

If I understand you properly, you are asking if the dmf will fail on your forthcoming journey?

TBH I wish I could predict with that amount of certainty but I can assure you that certain it is not. You have to put this into perspective and there are RAVs out there that have done astronomical mileages without any dmf trouble. It is true to say that many of the cases we hear of failures are in this kind of ball park mileage but it isn't a certainty.

Your noise may well be down to your exhaust and all I can suggest is that you take it to an exhaust centre or a garage for further advice. You should not be afraid of running your car because of the possibilty of something going wrong and hopefully a trip to the garage might reassure you.

Best of luck and let me know if I can answer anything else.

thanks Anchorman,I`m a worrier when I read things that could happen I think it will ,since I`ve had it when I press the pedal there seems a ticking noise coming from the engine when I take my foot of it stops,just curious to know what it is,I posted on another subject in here about my speedo not working,I had it serviced and a new Battery fitted yesterday on the way home noticed speedo not working just 0 mph rang garage the guy was a bit upset thinks I`m accusing him I said if he had road tested it he would have seen it anyway he say it could be the weather :(

[anchorman]

No it isn't the weather - speedos work regardless and that is a crock of sh*t, they should know better.

The speed sensor on yours is down by the back of the gearbox. It could be it has got broken if they were doing something down there but occasionaly they just need a clean. If you unplug it and give it a squirt of WD40 it should be OK. If it is broken - well they don't break themselves so we know what has happened there.

The clicking does seem a bit odd. They often make a din with your foot off the clutch when idling, especially when hot. This is a combination of the dmf and the gearbox all chattering as they are not loaded - it stops when you press the clutch and is normal. If you are sure it does it only when you press the clutch it could be a bit more of a problem but don't worry until you've seen somebody in the know because it might be nothing.

[mabozar]

No it isn't the weather - speedos work regardless and that is a crock of sh*t, they should know better.

The speed sensor on yours is down by the back of the gearbox. It could be it has got broken if they were doing something down there but occasionaly they just need a clean. If you unplug it and give it a squirt of WD40 it should be OK. If it is broken - well they don't break themselves so we know what has happened there.

The clicking does seem a bit odd. They often make a din with your foot off the clutch when idling, especially when hot. This is a combination of the dmf and the gearbox all chattering as they are not loaded - it stops when you press the clutch and is normal. If you are sure it does it only when you press the clutch it could be a bit more of a problem but don't worry until you've seen somebody in the know because it might be nothing.

thanks anchorman,I took it to a local guy who I know very well he took the plug out and replaced it it worked okay for a few days but it went back to zero and the engine management light came on so we stopped but the light has not came on again,the clicking I`m not to bothered as it was been like that for 4 years.