Engine Dies

[TDF]

We have a 1996 Toyota Camry 4 Cylinder. After the car is driven and the engine warms up, when you stop and turn off the engine, for like running into the store for just a couple of minutes everything seems to work. If you shut the engine off and wait 15 to 20 minutes then try to start the engine, it may start or the engine will turn over but will not start, or it will start then stumble and quit. From that point if you wait about 20 minutes, then the engine will start. The ignition system is firing, there is spark at the plugs, it seems like there is no fuel, but sometimes you can smell fuel?

Also as the engine is warming up, it may speed up to about 1500 to 1800 RPM, the engine will run at this speed for a couple of minutes then slow back down to an idle. This also happens when idling at a stop light etc. Some times the engine will stumble, if this happens and the engine dies, it will not restart for about 20 minutes. If the car is at an intersection, parking lot etc. you are stuck till it decides it is time to start.

.

We have had the ECM scanned, no codes show. The only thing the scanner showed was dirty injectors, we had the injectors cleaned by a Toyota mechanic, he also suggested we do a secondary ignition tune-up, so we replaced the plug wires, spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor. The engine runs better and does not seem to be any problem as far as highway driving goes. The problem only occurs at idle or after the engines has been shut down for a little while. The car has 90,000 miles on it.

A friend said to try changing the Distributor, Igniter, ECM in that order, lots of money any way you look at it.

I changed the igniter today, the engine ran smooth as glass, warmed it up good, then turned the engine off and restarted it about 15 minutes later. It started ok but then the engine started revving up then back down by it self, then it stumbled and quit. Would not start for 15 minutes.

Any IDEAS, Thanks

[Mick24]

From what you describe,it sounds like a low residual pressure/vapour lock problem.

On your fuel pump you have a spring loaded check valve on the outlet port of the pump,and when you turn off the engine,this check valve closes to maintain residual line pressure (approx.21 psi for 5 mins after the engine is turned off)

If your residual line pressure drops off quickly after the engine is shut off,then check:

Fuel pump check valve.

Pressure Regulator Valve ( normally on inlet manifold).

Leaking Injectors.

With a fuel pressure gauge fitted - turn on Ignition and Jump/short Pins +B and Fp on the check connector - this will run the fuel pump.

You should have approx. 38 - 44 psi fuel pressure.

Hope this helps Ya,

[Mick24]

The Ignitor also gives trouble on the Camry if the engine has some miles on it (100,000 +)

Try getting a low mileage one from a breakers to try it - its the cheapest way

[TDF]

Mick24,

Edited the original post and added some stuff. Also changed the igniter today, as in the post, the engine started fine and ran good, really smooth. Let it warm up good then shut it off. Restarted it about 15 minutes later. It started OK the the engine started surging speeding up to around 1500 to 1800 RPM, finally it settled down then started stumbling then it die. I was 15 minutes before it finally started again.

The guy that checked everything when this first started happening is a Toyota mech. he used a scan tool and no codes were present the only thing was that fuel injector pressure was high because they were dirty, the system sensed the engine was running lean so it increased fuel. He cleaned the injectors and the fuel pressure went back to normal. You can drive the car on the highway and everything seems great?

Thanks for your help (I am lost)

[MyV6Flys]

My book,

Engine lopes while idling or idles erratically

1.Vacuum leak. My first guess.

2.leaking EGR valve

3.Air filter clogged. My second guess.

4.Fuel pump not dilevering enough fuel.

5.Leaking head gasket

6.Timing belt

7.Camshaft lobes worn.

ALSO:

Engine surges while holding accelerator steady

1.Intake air leak....vacuum leak. Again my first guess

2.Fuel pump faulty

3.Loose fuel connection harness connections

4.Defective ECM or information sensor.

ANOTHER:

Engine hard to start when Hot.

1.Air filter

2.Fuel not reaching the injectors

3.Bad Battery connections.

Hope you find something here that helps. Bad Battery connections have fooled me in the past. If the ECM is not getting the right current, it can't get the right readings.

[Mick24]

Have you changed your Fuel Filter ?????

It is often over-looked and neglected.

It still sounds like a Fuel pressure problem - may be the Pressure regulator,but you say that your Toyota Mech.has checked all this ??!!??

[TDF]

Thanks for the help.

The mech. that checked the car used his scan tool and all pressures and temperatures checked OK.

You would think that the problem would arise shortly after the car is shut down as things heat up a little before they start cooling off. But the problem occurs after the engines has cooled down for 20 minutes. If the engine acts up after the 20 minute interval then it takes another 15 to 20 minutes before it will start. Turns over fine, just will not start. Once the engine starts, it runs like there are no problems at all. I think you could drive the car cross-country as long as you did not turn it off for the for these short periods of time?

[benisj]

Add me to the list of '94 vintage Camry (4-cylinder, 140k miles, automatic) owners perplexed by the "stalling engine" problem. Our mechanic (non-Toyota) initially could not recreate the problem. In the infant stages, the engine stall was very difficult to replicate. Plugs, wires, etc were replaced as part of a standard "tune-up" as the starting point of troubleshooting. After stalling on route to a shopping mall, we had the car towed. Of course, 1 hour passed from the time the car stalled and the time they came out to pick it up. To our shock, the car had started with no problem (made me look like an *****).

Now, we can replicate the problem daily as I have resorted to "two-footed" driving between trips to the Toyota dealer's service center. Start the car cold, drive through the first few stopsigns in the neighborhood and it feels as good as driving a brand new car. Sit at the first light (3 minutes into driving, 1.25 miles from home) notice a little bounce in the RPMs from normal idle of 800ish to 1250-2000 RPM. Give it some gas, get a sputter but no stalling...yet. Get the car up to 40MPH over the next half mile, stop for a lefthand turn, feels like its gonna let go when breaking. (This is where the two-footing comes into play). Complete the drive the remaining 2 miles to work through lights and signs with two feet forcing the RPMS to stay between 1000 and 1250, car is fine. Turn into parkinglot, almost lose engine. Put the car in PARK, engine revs 2000 RPMs (or higher) for a good 3-5 minutes before dropping off to regular idle. Stop engine, car is dead for 15 minutes to an hour. It sputter on the re-start attempts, teasing you into thinking it might actually start! Hour later, starts fine, drives fine again for 5-10 minutes then repeats its problem.

Another weird item of note is that if I maintain a speed of 20-25mph, I can feel the car wobble left-to-right very rhythmically. Any other speed this does not happen.

Non-Toyota mechanic says he has heard of distributor problems with this vintage Camry. He says he has NEVER had to replace fuel pumps in 94 Camry's. Toyota mechanic says nothing on diagnostics, wants to replace the timing belt. My regular mechanic is skeptical. Toyota mechanic noted build-up of "gunk" on the throttle (or throttle valve? I don't recall exactly what he said) and cleaned it. Verdict is out on the cleaning, a decision is yet to be made on tackling the timing belt issue.

No oil leaks, white smoke, etc. Another oddity is the "freshness" of the air filter replaced 2+ months ago. Looks as clean now as it did when it came out of the box. Checked the intake leading to the air filter and there were no squirrels nests or anything blocking the intake TO the air filter. I am helpless at looking past the filter into the engine.

I love my Camry, but this is maddening! :ffs:

[MyV6Flys]

Coil's Will test Good cold, give them 5 to 10 minutes to heat up while running, and they can fail.

Giving interninate spark to the plugs, once hot they might not spark at all till they cool off.

If you can run the car for 15 minutes pull it over to where you can put a timming light on the spark plug wires and look for spark. Check each one....make sure it sparks 30 plus time per wire with no missing flashes. If you try all the wires after the coil is that hot and there are no missing flashes then I'm wrong. But I bet you will see a miss in the flash every so often. If so, wait 30 minutes till it's cold and retry the timming light trick. If it then flashes every time you found the problem.

I might be wrong, but then I'm not asking you to spend any mony either. I've seen this happen on 3 cars over the years.

[benisj]

Found a mechanic who actually TROUBLESHOT my problem!!! (Other mechanics wanted to change timing belts, upgrade to platinum plugs, replace distributor, water pump, etc without being remotely possitive any of those things would fix the problem.)

He "disconnected" the EGR system effectively taking it out of the mix for a few days. The car can be driven without the EGR system active (might experience some engine knocking noise when EGR is bypassed) to rule out (or in) the EGR system. We also cleaned the throttle body which was gummed up but did not solve the car stalling and idling HIGH (2000 RPMs in park) before dying.

Its been 2 days without the EGR and my Camry runs like new again...knock on wood.

[nexus4400]

TDF,

I stumbled onto this forum while doing a search on 'fuel pressure gauge toyota.' I couldn't help to notice that your problem is almost identical to mine (except that I drive a 1986 Corolla SR5 GTS). Have you solved the problem? My car starts in the morning, runs fine, until you decide to turn it off. I have mired over this problem since the day I bought this car.

-Samuel

[fengmit]

Found a mechanic who actually TROUBLESHOT my problem!!! (Other mechanics wanted to change timing belts, upgrade to platinum plugs, replace distributor, water pump, etc without being remotely possitive any of those things would fix the problem.)

He "disconnected" the EGR system effectively taking it out of the mix for a few days. The car can be driven without the EGR system active (might experience some engine knocking noise when EGR is bypassed) to rule out (or in) the EGR system. We also cleaned the throttle body which was gummed up but did not solve the car stalling and idling HIGH (2000 RPMs in park) before dying.

Its been 2 days without the EGR and my Camry runs like new again...knock on wood.

My Camry 98 stalls after highway speed drive and stop at local trafic lights. Can be started with pressing gas. Toyota tech has disabled my ERG system to see if problem goes away or not (changed ERG vac valve and modulator today and still stalled, next will be replace ERG valve if stalling goes away with disabled ERG system. I'm interested in knowing what's the end of your story about your disconnected ERG. Was it the problem (ERG)?

Anyone has similar engine stalling experience to share?

[grizzon]

I am having same problem. I just had a tune up- new plugs, distributor cap/rotor, wires, air filter. I also had the fuel injectors cleaned same day. I have a 93 corolla, 1.6L engine has 120,000k

ever since the car stalls shortly after i start in the morning, at red/stop lights, on occasion

check engine light flashes on- stayin on max 5 seconds. Also when driving and not even accelerating the car lunges periodically.

Took it back today and mechanic needs to hook it up to computer to get full analysis but he says does not sound like related to the tune up/fuel cleaning.

When i looked at it today after i got back from mechanic, i notice one of the wires from the distributor cap was not connected to the air filter box, so i plugged that back in thinking maybe that was the cause, but i took it for a ride and still happening.

never changed fuel filter, could it be as simple as this or a more serious problem.

What is this EGR valve and what does it do?

[wandikabs]

I'm having the same problem with my 94 Camry. It will drive for about 5-10mins before stalling at stop signs and lights. let it cool down for about 5 mins it will start and drive and after 10mins stall. I have done the regular tune up changing plugs etc but still the same problem. Whats funny is whenever I take it to the mechanic it drives and never dies out. he drove yesterday for about an hour and it never stalled. i dont know if ishould change the fuel pump but he's skeptical about that. What does the ERG do? I noticed today that the igniter was very hot. Is it supposed to heat up? I have also tried changes the fuel pump relay but the same problem continued. please help as this car is drivig me crazy!!!

[benisj]

I am beginning to think we should all drive (or tow, depending on our success) our Camry's to the Toyota headquarters...

An update on my stalling Camry. It has gotten MUCH WORSE. To date we have done the following in the following order:

-Tuneup (plugs, wires, air filter, yada yada yada)

-Throttle body cleaning

-EGR disconnected

-TPS replaced

-Distributor replaced

-Oxygen sensor (don't know which or both) replaced

None of these things have done anything to improve the situation. The problem has gone from intermittent to reproducible right down to the first intersection it will stall at! Car starts fine in the morning, although it sounds a little "hard" when it turns over. Shift into gear, things are great until the engine time warms up 2 miles from home. While stopped at light in gear, will feel a small on again/off again surge in engine and the "breaking" idle will be just over 1000 RPMs. If I let off break and switch to gas, there will be significant hesitation in engine...sometimes stall. I have resorted to keeping foot on gas to maintain RPM at 1500 while breaking at a light. When I get to work (only a 10 minute local drive) and put the car in park, the engine continues to rev at 1700-2000 RPM as before. Kill the engine now, cannot restart for at least 30 minutes.

New problem after distibutore was replaced: if I am lucky and the car is idling normal in park after local driving, an immediate attempt to re-start will work, however, let 5+ minutes pass and the engine WILL NOT turn over. Cannot even flood the engine, suggesting a fuel related problem. Sometimes it takes 10 or more tries with me manually pumping gas to start car. Let the car sit for 4 or more hours, everything OK. Noticed just last night during one of those "gotta pump it to start it" experiences that I left a large spray of liquid on the driveway out the tailpipe. On that same trip home, the car started to sputter while driving it at 40 MPH but never stalled.

I am asking my mechanic to look at the fuel pump, meter, filter, etc. again this week. Has anyone had fuel pump problems with their '94(ish) Camry? My mechanic says it is rare that the fuel pump goes bad on Camrys.

BTW, Wandi, the ERG has to do with emissions (it lowers nitrous oxide emissions or something like that) and, as I understand it, is a component pretty much there because of government emissions regulations. Nonetheless, it can be troubleshot by having your mechanic disconnect a hose (labeled #3 on my EGR, I think, but it best left to the mechanic if you have never seen it done before) and plugging it with something like a golf tee. This effectively bypasses the EGR system. If the EGR is bad, your problem will have gone away with the EGR disconnected. If your problem still exists, its not the EGR. Our local Toyota dealer wanted to replace the EGR system and connected components for around $750.

[wandikabs]

Thanks on the update. today in the morning I drove to school about 15miles and it didnt stall, but on my way back it stalled after about 5mins. I parked for about 20mins then called my mechanic who explained to me how to by pass the ERG which i think I managed to do, I drove all the way back without it stalling but it was kinda idling funny at stops signs. will observe it later on tonite and update you. Another questions does anyones ignotor heat up after driving the car for a while. If this doesnt work i think my next step is to change the fuel filter then pump. Has anyone tried changing the pump.

[wandikabs]

Hi everyone car stalled today and refused to start completely had to tow, so I guess the ERG is fine. Will keep you posted

[grizzon]

Well my problem is fixed. i took the my corolla to a toyota dealer vs. the mechanic who did the tune up. Then ran on the computer and came up with a code 22 which is for coolant temp sensor- that was checked and was within limits, so they checked over the parts i had replaced in the tune from 2 weeks ago and found the ignition rotor was cracked. they replaced it and car ran fine today.

don't know if the part was fautly or just bad installation by the other mechanic, but it is fixed.

[Ipe_papa]

i sure do have the same problem with the rest of you. my 1999 corolla would roll out fine from my garage. after i parked it and drive off again, i'll be having problems with the engine. as if fuel pressure is low and the car would hesitate going beyond 2000rpm. eventually the engine will be cut-off and i'll be having a hard time starting it. after a while, it would start fine as if nothing is wrong, but recently i noticed that the engine is hesitating while i'm driving..

i had a mechanic clean the carbeurator already and my spark plugs are all brand new. but this does not seem to help. hope somebody could lead me to an accurate answer to this problem.

[Pete3S-FE]

I know this is going to sound stupid, but the first thing i'd check and replace is the fuel filter with alot of these problems. I've jus had a VERY similar problem, whacked on a replacement ignitor, new electrics etc... Solved it for a few hours. Got a new Genuine Toyota Fuel filter and popped that on, problems have gone away completly. Granted i'm not running the same engine as alot of you, but fuel pumps rarely go esp on toyota's and the filter is more integral to the running of the car as they used to be on our old carberated cars. BTW mine had been on my ST171 since 1988 and the 'fuel' in it was a lovely shade of dark brown with a consistancy of maple syrup

Runs sweet as a nut now.

[gecko]

with the 5sfe or 3sfe engine...depending on the year.....i hope you all are putting TOYOTA secondary ignition parts on the car. the reason being in the toyota distributor caps there is a resistor between the rotor button and the connection for the coil wire. if it isn't there the coil will fail eventually and then you'll have to pay for a new coil and cap.

the vsv valve and modulator for the egr system are common failures on the old 4 cyl camry's. it is rare that it is the valve itself that is the actual problem although it does happen. a quick test you can do....if the car feels like it is going to to stall when coming to a stop. using a hammer tap/hit the egr valve and see if the engine idle returns to normal (smoothes out goes to about 800 rpms).

if the check engine light comes on jumper TE1 and E1 in the underhood diagnosis port if obd1 though some obd2 cars still have this. then count the flashes of the light and that is your code then reference it with a repair manual.

a possible cause for a "stalling or poor running" during warm up is a bad coolant temp sensor.

be careful when you have the fuel filter changed. toyota fuel lines have a bad habit of seizing up at the connection for the fuel filter. if that happens you have to buy the line that runs from the fuel filter...just below and behind the air cleaner housing all the way back to the tank.

[Dark Avatar]

Several things come to mind, the main relay (sometimes its the fuel pump relay) , the ignition coil, the fuel pump pick-up tube may have a rusted connection that kills the fuel pump. Your Toyota dealer should be able to help once they can duplicate the condition.

The problem is trying to duplicate it.

[reym]

I have a problem with my 82 Corolla, The car idles eratic, and the worse is if the engine stalls it would take me 5 to 20 of minutes of rest before it can get re-started(the still engine cranks) . But during high speed operations the engine is fine, the only problem is when the engine is at idle. I have already replaced the high tension wires, dist cap and fuel filter and tuned it up. I have also adjusted the idle speed but it still stalls during low speed operation (traffic/stop and go driving). What could be the problem?

[dragon-dude]

I feel bad for the guy/gal who's initiated this thread and has been at this for about half a year.

Beleive it or not, it IS the ignition coil if you've checked everything. My dad and I had the SAME problem with my sisters camry '96.

Checked and replaced Fuel filter(what a pain), distributor rotor & cap, double checked spark gap, swapped igniter (from a working camry), checked fuel pressure, checked vacuum. Old coil resistivity passes the test.

Dumbfoundly, we took the entire distributor from a working camry and of course, this fixed our problem!

It turned out to be the coil. Lilke some one said around here, a coil may seem to work initially, but after a few minutes, it'll just cr*p out. Besides, even when it's working, it's not pushing enough for you to drive safely.

80 bucks for the coil.

Good luck to all of you.

-Dan

[reym]

Is the Camry's ignition coil mounted on top of the distributor assembly, in a 1980's corolla the ignition coil is mounted separately and away from the distributor assembly, it is linked only by primary - wire and of course the secondary high voltage wire. I have replaced the ignition coil already but to no avail. Any more ideas?