Brakes

[RowanR4]

Merry Christmas all! :D I have a brief question... boring I know but I am a concerned girly driver... I have a 2001 Rav4 3rdr NV called Rowan and I'm finding that the breaks aren't overly brilliant... I used to be a VW owner and my breaks on my golf were good but my Rav seems to struggle on wet and/or dirty surfaces... does this sound like the norm??? I find that the abs seems to kick in early and then I just skid . I'm planning to have them checked but just wanted to know if this was a common problem. By the way I'm not travelling fast when this happens just trundling about country lanes. Sorry if this is a dull question, but being a new R4 owner just wanted to be sure.... thanks... Rowan ;)

[Parts-King]

The ABS will kick in as soon as it feels the vehicle "slip" This is normal, especially on wet, leafy lanes. One thing to note, when the ABS starts to work, you are not skidding, it is a strange feeling through the pedal but it is not a skid. ABS works by applying and releasing the pedal very quickly so that you dont skid and can steer out of harms way, if you were skidding (all wheels locked up) you cant steer, and the car goes straight on! hope this helps

Kingo

[T600]

There must be a reason that you're locking your wheels so easily. If you're driving sensibly according to the road conditions then there may be a problem with your tyres, or your braking system. If the surface is poor due to ice or mud then any braking system can easily lock up. And that will happen more easily with a bigger, heavier vehicle than it would with a small one.

I presume the problem you're having is when braking in a straight line of course; because braking on a bend is rarely a good thing. But if you are braking on a bend remember that the grip is considerably reduced anyway because the tyre is already working hard to get you round the corner - again, particularly with a larger vehicle.

If the road surface is good then suspect either your tyres (are the pressures correct) or a brake fault of some type. Just one faulty or badly inflated tyre can affect the brake balance considerably. If tyres are all OK then get the brakes tested by someone with the appropriate equipment - e.g. an MOT test centre. They can measure the balance left/right and front/rear. If the balance is wrong then the wheels will lock up one by one giving you much less braking force.

Sounds like there could also be a problem with your ABS; its purpose is to stop the brakes locking because once they've locked their effectiveness is reduced. If you have functional ABS and you feel like the car is skidding after ABS kicks in then that's not good; sure ABS can't perform miracles on poor surfaces or if there is another brake fault, but I'd expect it to give you some felling of control. This could be a cause or a symptom of the problem.

HTH.

[Parts-King]

I have had lots of customers complaining about their ABS working these last few weeks, not one was a genuine fault, it was driving too fast for the wet/icey conditions that was the problem. Apart from the odd ABS sensor failing, we get very little wrong with the ABS componants, it is worth having it checked out, but I would doubt that it is actually faulty, as mentioned above, the RAV is a bigger/heavier vehicle than your Golf

Kingo

[T600]

I have had lots of customers complaining about their ABS working these last few weeks, not one was a genuine fault

I don't doubt that for a minute. It's almost inevitable that as manufacturers fit better safety systems we start to rely on them to perform miracles, and give us grip in conditions where there's none to be had.

No doubt these systems are a help, but relying on them almost defeats their purpose to my mind.

For the most part I try to drive without any of these systems coming on at all, and a light makes me realise I made a mistake which the car tried to put right. I can't believe how easily the TC lights up on the Lexus at the moment though; even when the temperatures are well over freezing the roads seem to be very poor this year. And that's with good tyres at the right pressure, and relatively little right foot.

[bothwell_buyer]

Hi RowanR4 and a very warm welcome to a 3 door RAV owner - I thought I was the only one..... sorry didn't mean to write that...

On road conditions, - roads are laid with a surface which has a definite protrusion of gravel to aid friction with rubber tyres. As we all know, tyres wear down and need replaced...which means the tyres particles that disappear are lying on the road. No big deal as it normally rains and this rubber fine crumb gets washed away, along with all of the grit, muck and Buckinghamshire horse-droppings. (Well you don't get poop scoops for horses do you?)

The reason for this blurb is that if we don't get heavy rain, then when the rain does come, the road becomes very very slippy. Only an absolute downpour will wash the surface clean of the above and the oil etc that vehicles drop.

Dunno about where you are, but until recently we have not had much really heavy rain so the roads have been very greasy and slippy.

The ABS is an excellent method of avoiding wheels actually locking up - inducing a skid - as long as 1 wheel is still rotating. And as has been said, the sensation on the brake pedal is of a juddering as if the car is skidding/wheel lock.

If I progress on a bit and change the subject a little, the RAV front discs are not exactly beefy in comparison to other cars altho they are designed to do the job. Your car is about 7 years old though and things like calipers sticking become a factor. On my 1994 RAV (which does not have ABS) I eventually replaced the calipers with a set of very expensive racing grade calipers and discs. The Toyota calipers were original but they kept partially seizing which meant it was like driving with the brakes on. I went through a number of sets of brake discs and pads! Other things that affect the performance are things like the discs on any car develop rust quite quickly if you don't use the car each day. On the age of car, there are several other things that can affect braking - even like the fluid being contaminated somehow. Brake fluids of certain types attract water and over a period of time become less able to handle the heat developed through braking. And so i could go on.

One thing which is cheap is to find a friend who drives a RAV and ask them to try yours to see what they think....

Or a mechanic.

If your ever up in Scotland you could try my RAV - burnt some roads up yesterday with it and didn't skid once. And these were basically glorified farm tracks in Fife with large muddy puddles....but then I've changed to wider wheels and tyres and 18" size. Simply means more rubber on the road.

If you ever get to have to change the brakes discs, you can buy discs which are grooved for the front which enhances braking ability.

Other things are having the tyres at the right pressure and with adequate tread. The make of tyre has a bearing too. Some don't perform as well in the wet.

[RowanR4]

Hiya,

Thank you for all your advice and knowledge... Being a lass on my own I don't know any of that stuff so it's great to learn stuff. We've got a lot of rain down here tonight so the roads should be sufficiently wet enough tomorrow morning for me to try my braking again to check how it feels. To be fair when my golf's abs used to kick in I really noticed it through the pedal, this gives a juddering sensation through the car but not through the pedal as I recall. Some of the roads are leafy and muddyish lanes and others are just normal clean (as they can be!! ) roads. I'll check my tyre pressures tomorrow too. I know my rear wheels were practically new when I got the car but the fronts were slightly worn. I nearly planted myself into the back of another 3dr a week or so ago, I was doing 25mph in a lane which was wet and gritty with mud. The R4 in front decided to pull into a passing point at the last minute which forced me to break suddenly... I just had a feeling of not having any control as the back of the R4 in front loomed closer and closer... fortunately no hit but scared the living cr*p out of me!! :D

I'll not bore you further but I think I'll get my mechanic to check it out too... just to be safe...

Thanks again...

Rowan...

PS: I don't have a !Removed! scoop for my horse but I guess there is an invention there just waiting to happen!!!!! ;)

Hi RowanR4 and a very warm welcome to a 3 door RAV owner - I thought I was the only one..... sorry didn't mean to write that...

On road conditions, - roads are laid with a surface which has a definite protrusion of gravel to aid friction with rubber tyres. As we all know, tyres wear down and need replaced...which means the tyres particles that disappear are lying on the road. No big deal as it normally rains and this rubber fine crumb gets washed away, along with all of the grit, muck and Buckinghamshire horse-droppings. (Well you don't get !Removed! scoops for horses do you?)

The reason for this blurb is that if we don't get heavy rain, then when the rain does come, the road becomes very very slippy. Only an absolute downpour will wash the surface clean of the above and the oil etc that vehicles drop.

Dunno about where you are, but until recently we have not had much really heavy rain so the roads have been very greasy and slippy.

The ABS is an excellent method of avoiding wheels actually locking up - inducing a skid - as long as 1 wheel is still rotating. And as has been said, the sensation on the brake pedal is of a juddering as if the car is skidding/wheel lock.

If I progress on a bit and change the subject a little, the RAV front discs are not exactly beefy in comparison to other cars altho they are designed to do the job. Your car is about 7 years old though and things like calipers sticking become a factor. On my 1994 RAV (which does not have ABS) I eventually replaced the calipers with a set of very expensive racing grade calipers and discs. The Toyota calipers were original but they kept partially seizing which meant it was like driving with the brakes on. I went through a number of sets of brake discs and pads! Other things that affect the performance are things like the discs on any car develop rust quite quickly if you don't use the car each day. On the age of car, there are several other things that can affect braking - even like the fluid being contaminated somehow. Brake fluids of certain types attract water and over a period of time become less able to handle the heat developed through braking. And so i could go on.

One thing which is cheap is to find a friend who drives a RAV and ask them to try yours to see what they think....

Or a mechanic.

If your ever up in Scotland you could try my RAV - burnt some roads up yesterday with it and didn't skid once. And these were basically glorified farm tracks in Fife with large muddy puddles....but then I've changed to wider wheels and tyres and 18" size. Simply means more rubber on the road.

If you ever get to have to change the brakes discs, you can buy discs which are grooved for the front which enhances braking ability.

Other things are having the tyres at the right pressure and with adequate tread. The make of tyre has a bearing too. Some don't perform as well in the wet.

[RowanR4]

Hi Kingo,

Thanks for note, I'm not sure I'm feeling the abs sensation through the pedal. It's peeing down with rain here tonight so I'm going to go for a test run tomorrow and see if what I'm feeling is what you describe. I'll also get my mechanic to have a look just to be safe and I'm going to check my tyre pressures tomorrow too, just to be sure... I'm sure it's just me being a dumb girly!!!! :D :D

Rowan :D

The ABS will kick in as soon as it feels the vehicle "slip" This is normal, especially on wet, leafy lanes. One thing to note, when the ABS starts to work, you are not skidding, it is a strange feeling through the pedal but it is not a skid. ABS works by applying and releasing the pedal very quickly so that you dont skid and can steer out of harms way, if you were skidding (all wheels locked up) you cant steer, and the car goes straight on! hope this helps

Kingo

[RowanR4]

Hi T600,

Thank you for your help. I'm going to check my tyre pressures tomorrow. I have to admit I've not checked them since I got the car back in September (bad R4 person ;) ) so that could be the issue. Rear tyres were practically new but the fronts were partially worn, I would assume that the previous owner needed to replace the fronts so put the old rears on the front and put the new tyres on the back - If that makes any sense!!! I guess because my R4 isn't much bigger than the Golf I just assume the there is not weight difference although I know there is.

All of the braking issues I have had have been on straight roads. I'll try the tyre pressures and then if it's no better I'll ask my mechanic, I guess it's best to be safe than parked up the back of someone elses motor!!!! :D :D

Thank you once again...

Rowan

quote name='T600' date='Dec 28 2007, 05:02 PM' post='706239']

There must be a reason that you're locking your wheels so easily. If you're driving sensibly according to the road conditions then there may be a problem with your tyres, or your braking system. If the surface is poor due to ice or mud then any braking system can easily lock up. And that will happen more easily with a bigger, heavier vehicle than it would with a small one.

I presume the problem you're having is when braking in a straight line of course; because braking on a bend is rarely a good thing. But if you are braking on a bend remember that the grip is considerably reduced anyway because the tyre is already working hard to get you round the corner - again, particularly with a larger vehicle.

If the road surface is good then suspect either your tyres (are the pressures correct) or a brake fault of some type. Just one faulty or badly inflated tyre can affect the brake balance considerably. If tyres are all OK then get the brakes tested by someone with the appropriate equipment - e.g. an MOT test centre. They can measure the balance left/right and front/rear. If the balance is wrong then the wheels will lock up one by one giving you much less braking force.

Sounds like there could also be a problem with your ABS; its purpose is to stop the brakes locking because once they've locked their effectiveness is reduced. If you have functional ABS and you feel like the car is skidding after ABS kicks in then that's not good; sure ABS can't perform miracles on poor surfaces or if there is another brake fault, but I'd expect it to give you some felling of control. This could be a cause or a symptom of the problem.

HTH.

[bothwell_buyer]

Dear Ms Rowan

The RAV is a 4 wheel drive with equal drive/power to each wheel. However, as with maist cars, yer braking force is 70% tae 80% oan the front wheels.

So, its makes mair sense tae have new tyres oan the front cos thats where aw the braking effectiveness is carried oot.

See me an ma RAV - the front brakes are immense - far better than ony wan elses RAV in Europe. Massive discs oan the front wi massive brake calipers. Ma brakes will stop ma 300 horses as fast as ye can say Michael Shoomaker. Unique.

The back brakes? Still the standard original brake shoes and brake drums jist like whit they have bin fittin tae cars fur a century. Why? Cos the rear brakes ony get used if yer reversing at speed oar ye park oan a steep hill.

I certainlyenment wuoldnae like ye tae lose faith in yer RAV so yes - I agree....ask yer mechanic to check oot the brakes an dinnae spare the horses so tae speak....get him tae gie them a guid try oot.

If yer stuck or still no sure, I miicht be doon in England fairly soon - probably Manchester. I've been tae Buckinghamshire a few times an ken its ony an hoor frae Manchester fur me. I'd be quite happy tae hae a look at it if yer mechanic isnae sure. In the meantime ye cuid try oot ma RAV whuilst ah hae a look at yer brakes.

Ah dinna dae horses but. Ma granfaither wis a top shot at the clay pigun shootin an wun loads o prizes. At his peak, he wis wielding the biggest maist powerfu shotgun in Scotland. Hooever, he also got grouse an pheasant....thats waur ah got ma taste fur grouse (whisky).

Guid luck an ahm serious aboot comin doon - ony reason fur a canter wi ma RAV...an ma filly mae jist be wi me!

Tyre pressures? No sure whit they shuid be oan yours. My old 215/70 x 16 were aroon 26psi

Jist another wee thing - depends oan the tyres whit are oan yer RAV, but some tyres are directional - ie ye can ony fir them to run in wan direction...whit ah mean is that the tread pattern is designed tae clear the water n stuff when yer drivin forward. If ye fit the tyres the opposite way, then the water willnae be dispelled (like the word eh - clever??) frae the contact atween the road an yer tyre. Also, wance a tyre has been run oan wan direction, these days its no wise tae swap them aboot as the tread surface adapts itsel tae the forward direction o yer motor.

In the olden days, swappin tyres aroon wisnae a problem cos the cars didnae gae that fast. Noo they do.

(Ah ken a wee bit aboot tyres cos ma charity re-uses them fur fitness systems.)

Midnight up here in Scotland so ah'll check oot ma ither emails....

:)

[anchorman]

Hello Rowan

Well we need a few more birds on this forum, so far it is Clare, pinky, Maria and you. Borat reckons that women only have the same size brain as a squirrel which of course is correct and this entirely dedicated to finding things that men have temporarily misplaced so don't be too offended if I proffer the following definitions;

Break - Something you have with a Kit Kat or happens frequently to a Land Rover.

Brake - the middle pedal that slows you down after several technical things happen.

By now your female instincts will be sounding alarm bells and telling you that you don't like anchorman despite the fact that he never showed too much resentment of women getting the vote although was quite relieved when it was announced that they would never actually count.

By now one of the following has occured;

1. You are absolutely spitting feathers and when you come down off the ceiling you want to make arrangements to scour the Peak District to hunt down anchorman and kill him and is hareem of tarty sheep (actually raquel is quite prim and proper).

2. Although you find this post extremely distasteful you accept that it can only possibly done in an attempt to draw you and it must be down to a deranged sense of humour.

If "1" applies you may find life here rather unpleasant and the forum should only be used as an urgent source of reference. If however "2" applies then welcome to the club, your are as potty as pinky and will soon be completely addicted to this pandora's box of troubles, trivia and leg pulling. We want to see you here every day!

Now just while I fasten myself into the stocks so that you can pelt me with rotten fruit and as much abuse as you care to muster, although I know very little about cars (much more about sheep and trains) I think that if the brakes on one axle of your car are faulty for some reason it may cause the others to lock up prematurely as they have taken on a greater percentage of work.

I see you have been introduced to Bothy. He is half man, half RAV4. When he speaks in english he is sitting at his computer and when he speeks (ha ha spelt that wrong on purpose) in scottish he has entered the car which has a docking connection to his irritating bowel. He then communicates with the rest of the world by telemetry as he is one with the vehicle but because the RAV was riencarnated in Scotland it comes out in that strange dialect.

Please accept a warm anchorwelcome to the club - be sure to register your vote in the "what do you run" poll and I will ask a moderator to brake (ha ha, did it again) the rules and make it count.

;)

PS I doo sumtimz speel thigs wrongg wen I''m in a heurrry so dont av a go coz im verrry senssateev

[Parts-King]

You are not alone on the ABS activation front. Today when pulling up at some traffic lights quickly, I too found the Auris ABS working The road was damp, certainly not wet, but had been gritted last night. It's a main road and in good condition, so you see it can happen at anytime. You do feel as though the car is'nt going to pull up as quickly as normally, but the important thing is it does, and you can also steer the car when activated (very important to be able to steer around something instead of going straight on into the back of someone!)

Kingo

[bothwell_buyer]

Toddling up the M80 today and saw 2 accidents where fawk had run into the back o the car in front.

Wisnae RAVs but and the 1st accident wis difficult tae tell whit it wis cos the front wis mashed in well n proper.

Had a reasonable run and getting used to the cornering ability now - goes round 90 degree corners in fast 2nd (40mph) with no skidding or drifting. The boy behind must have wondered whit wis gaeing oan!!

[RowanR4]

Tried out some hard braking round the lanes today and yep there is definitely vibration through the pedal so I'm confident now the ABS is working ok. I think I just need to try out some braking and steering and maybe I'll feel more confident. Lanes were wet, a bit mucky and I was doing around 20/25mph. Didn't get round to doing the tyre pressures but will do that tomorrow.... once again thanks for helping out me and Rowan! :D

You are not alone on the ABS activation front. Today when pulling up at some traffic lights quickly, I too found the Auris ABS working The road was damp, certainly not wet, but had been gritted last night. It's a main road and in good condition, so you see it can happen at anytime. You do feel as though the car is'nt going to pull up as quickly as normally, but the important thing is it does, and you can also steer the car when activated (very important to be able to steer around something instead of going straight on into the back of someone!)

Kingo

[RowanR4]

Hi Anchorman.....

Well what can I say... what a welcome!! Love the deranged sense of humour and as for spelling I'm rubbish too so you're not alone...I won't mention yours if you don't mention mine!!!! :D

I'll do my best to keep up the chick side of things on here although can't promise I'll be here every day... can't wait to speak to them too...

You guys all rock so far and the messages I've had from you all have been useful and very very funny As for Bothy, well, that last message which I will reply to shortly took a little understanding but most of it made sense.... and was very amusing...

I need to find out more stuff about Rowan so I can ask more questions... it was ok when I had my golf as bought it when I had a beau and so he answered everything but now.... hmmmm this was a solo purchase all on my own.... I love Rowan but a few things scare me from time to time... like the brakes!!!!!! :) or lack of, or so I thought :o

I'm curious as to why your knowledge on sheep and trains is greater than on motors....

Anyway, so as not to bore you any longer I'm off, but thank you for a great welcome... and be sure I'm not going to try and hunt you down and kill you... my squirrel brain just couldn't cope with it all!!!!!

Rowan ;)

Hello Rowan

Well we need a few more birds on this forum, so far it is Clare, pinky, Maria and you. Borat reckons that women only have the same size brain as a squirrel which of course is correct and this entirely dedicated to finding things that men have temporarily misplaced so don't be too offended if I proffer the following definitions;

Break - Something you have with a Kit Kat or happens frequently to a Land Rover.

Brake - the middle pedal that slows you down after several technical things happen.

By now your female instincts will be sounding alarm bells and telling you that you don't like anchorman despite the fact that he never showed too much resentment of women getting the vote although was quite relieved when it was announced that they would never actually count.

By now one of the following has occured;

1. You are absolutely spitting feathers and when you come down off the ceiling you want to make arrangements to scour the Peak District to hunt down anchorman and kill him and is hareem of tarty sheep (actually raquel is quite prim and proper).

2. Although you find this post extremely distasteful you accept that it can only possibly done in an attempt to draw you and it must be down to a deranged sense of humour.

If "1" applies you may find life here rather unpleasant and the forum should only be used as an urgent source of reference. If however "2" applies then welcome to the club, your are as potty as pinky and will soon be completely addicted to this pandora's box of troubles, trivia and leg pulling. We want to see you here every day!

Now just while I fasten myself into the stocks so that you can pelt me with rotten fruit and as much abuse as you care to muster, although I know very little about cars (much more about sheep and trains) I think that if the brakes on one axle of your car are faulty for some reason it may cause the others to lock up prematurely as they have taken on a greater percentage of work.

I see you have been introduced to Bothy. He is half man, half RAV4. When he speaks in english he is sitting at his computer and when he speeks (ha ha spelt that wrong on purpose) in scottish he has entered the car which has a docking connection to his irritating bowel. He then communicates with the rest of the world by telemetry as he is one with the vehicle but because the RAV was riencarnated in Scotland it comes out in that strange dialect.

Please accept a warm anchorwelcome to the club - be sure to register your vote in the "what do you run" poll and I will ask a moderator to brake (ha ha, did it again) the rules and make it count.

;)

PS I doo sumtimz speel thigs wrongg wen I''m in a heurrry so dont av a go coz im verrry senssateev

[RowanR4]

Whatcha!

Thanks for that reply.... I got there in the end and love the scottish dialect in there... fab! :D You're right with the tyres... maybe I should have those swapped over or maybe just invest in a new pair of fronts. They are Dunlops I think so a pretty reasonable make. I think I only have tiddley tyres on Rowan as he's just the base model.

Will keep you posted on what the mechanic says... and may take you up on your offer if he's not sure too although he's pretty good. I checked my book tonight and it says my tyres should be 29psi so I'll get my foot pump out tomorrow... need the excercise!! :D

I understand from Anchorman there aren't many of us chicks on here so I'm hoping you knowledgable chappies will be keepin me in check with all my Rowan related drama's.

I'm checkin out for now... but in Arnies words not mine... "I'll be back"! :D

Dear Ms Rowan

The RAV is a 4 wheel drive with equal drive/power to each wheel. However, as with maist cars, yer braking force is 70% tae 80% oan the front wheels.

So, its makes mair sense tae have new tyres oan the front cos thats where aw the braking effectiveness is carried oot.

See me an ma RAV - the front brakes are immense - far better than ony wan elses RAV in Europe. Massive discs oan the front wi massive brake calipers. Ma brakes will stop ma 300 horses as fast as ye can say Michael Shoomaker. Unique.

The back brakes? Still the standard original brake shoes and brake drums jist like whit they have bin fittin tae cars fur a century. Why? Cos the rear brakes ony get used if yer reversing at speed oar ye park oan a steep hill.

I certainlyenment wuoldnae like ye tae lose faith in yer RAV so yes - I agree....ask yer mechanic to check oot the brakes an dinnae spare the horses so tae speak....get him tae gie them a guid try oot.

If yer stuck or still no sure, I miicht be doon in England fairly soon - probably Manchester. I've been tae Buckinghamshire a few times an ken its ony an !Removed! frae Manchester fur me. I'd be quite happy tae hae a look at it if yer mechanic isnae sure. In the meantime ye cuid try oot ma RAV whuilst ah hae a look at yer brakes.

Ah dinna dae horses but. Ma granfaither wis a top shot at the clay pigun shootin an wun loads o prizes. At his peak, he wis wielding the biggest maist powerfu shotgun in Scotland. Hooever, he also got grouse an pheasant....thats waur ah got ma taste fur grouse (whisky).

Guid luck an ahm serious aboot comin doon - ony reason fur a canter wi ma RAV...an ma filly mae jist be wi me!

Tyre pressures? No sure whit they shuid be oan yours. My old 215/70 x 16 were aroon 26psi

Jist another wee thing - depends oan the tyres whit are oan yer RAV, but some tyres are directional - ie ye can ony fir them to run in wan direction...whit ah mean is that the tread pattern is designed tae clear the water n stuff when yer drivin forward. If ye fit the tyres the opposite way, then the water willnae be dispelled (like the word eh - clever??) frae the contact atween the road an yer tyre. Also, wance a tyre has been run oan wan direction, these days its no wise tae swap them aboot as the tread surface adapts itsel tae the forward direction o yer motor.

In the olden days, swappin tyres aroon wisnae a problem cos the cars didnae gae that fast. Noo they do.

(Ah ken a wee bit aboot tyres cos ma charity re-uses them fur fitness systems.)

Midnight up here in Scotland so ah'll check oot ma ither emails....

:)

[bothwell_buyer]

anchorman drives trains and runs over sheep.

Trains don't have problems with tread, nor tyre pressure as they run on steel bands and diesel.

As for the brakes/tyres- Dunlops were the original supply and back in 1994 cost £200 a tyre.

Brakes - the abs will kick in at any speed where a wheel is wanting to lock up on braking. As I said, get yer best tyre on the front as the RAV is 4 wheel drive, but the main braking is on the front 2.

Happy new year when it comes case I'm comatose. I bought a cask strength whisky this month (61+%) so I might be busy trying it.

I however don't believe in drinking and driving as it spills good whisky so there has to be a number of hours spent drying out.....

[anchorman]

Rowan

Just back from driving trains - sometimes late and sometimes early but you'll get used to the shifts!

Well done you've passed the initiation ceremony with flying colours and sure enough the other birds will check in soon.

Don't worry about Rowan, you've done the right thing and we'll help you along when he goes heywire. You might not get him fixed but you'll have a good laugh while he misbehaves.

keep in touch.

Regards

PS I do know odds and ends about cars!

[Fujisan]

PS I do know odds and ends about cars!

[Fujisan]

They are Dunlops I think so a pretty reasonable make.

Not a great fan of Dunlops myself.

"I'll be back"! :D

Welcome aboard the good ship "Nut - Job"