Clutch Check

[Raver too]

Hi Guys - Happy New Year to all!

Just a quick couple of questions: I have a 98' Rav-4 manual, petrol. Has been an excellent runner but lately not so smooth (just gone 100,000 miles). I'm gonna have a transmission oil change soon but my feeling is that I have a wearing CLUTCH or poss the start of some gearbox issue. I know how to check clutch in a 2wheel drive car (couple of methods actually) but not sure if 4x4 cars can be checked same way - e.g. put in 3rd gear with handbrake on, rev high let clutch out.

Each gear (1st 2nd 3rd really) is just more jerky. Seems easy enough to get into gear and the clutch doesn't grab immediately or a mm or 2 off the floor so nothing seems obviously problematic.

If I end up having to get clutch changed is it a big job on Ravs and would it be worth changing the cambelt (prob 30-35,000 miles done sincle last belt!). I was planning to sell the car soonish and just got my MOT 2 days ago.

If anyone can help or point me to any threads would much appreciate.

Thanks

Rav-er :)

[anchorman]

I'm not sure if you have a clutch or transmission "backlash" problem. Are you saying that there is a clunk or thud as you take up drive?

There is apparently an issue with rear axle mountings that make the transmission feel clunky but I have more experience with RAV 4.2s and 3s.

There are two people that will talk to you soon - Bothwell Buyer and Parts King who know these things better.

I wouldn't bother with a cam belt at that mileage if you are to sell it soon.

Cheers

[bothwell_buyer]

Hi Guys - Happy New Year to all!

Just a quick couple of questions: I have a 98' Rav-4 manual, petrol. Has been an excellent runner but lately not so smooth (just gone 100,000 miles). I'm gonna have a transmission oil change soon but my feeling is that I have a wearing CLUTCH or poss the start of some gearbox issue. I know how to check clutch in a 2wheel drive car (couple of methods actually) but not sure if 4x4 cars can be checked same way - e.g. put in 3rd gear with handbrake on, rev high let clutch out.

Each gear (1st 2nd 3rd really) is just more jerky. Seems easy enough to get into gear and the clutch doesn't grab immediately or a mm or 2 off the floor so nothing seems obviously problematic.

If I end up having to get clutch changed is it a big job on Ravs and would it be worth changing the cambelt (prob 30-35,000 miles done sincle last belt!). I was planning to sell the car soonish and just got my MOT 2 days ago.

If anyone can help or point me to any threads would much appreciate.

Thanks

Rav-er :)

As anchorman says.. there are several possibilities.

At 100,000 miles, its likely the clutch has already been replaced - do you know if it has? Clutch n gearbox - well it depends how its been driven and what its been used for - eg pulling horsebox etc. If it hasn't been replaced then I would think it likely to be on its way out by now.

Jerkiness/clunking is more likely to be due to worn rear suspension bushes or diff mountings allowing the rear diff to kind of swivel or rock. I had problems with the gear changes around that time and it was the rear suspension mountings that were well worn, allowing movement around the rear.

Does it feel as if there is oil on the clutch plate??? It depends on what sort of symptoms you are geting - shuddering or clunking..

The dealer method for the clutch is a full engine out job and costs used to be around £600+. I've seen it done without taking the whole engine out but just loosening off the engine mounts and tipping the engine down and removing the gearbox when the cars up on a car lift. However, this could also mean removing the transfer box if the 2 won't come apart and that becomes heavy so its not a 1 man job.

I'd leave the cambelt - they should be good for 60,000 miles.

The gearbox is over-engineered and can handle 250bhp so its unlikely to be a gearbox problem unless its been abused in the past. There are issues with the crankshaft seals leaking and so maybe that might be the source? The gearbox I have in the car is the original and has been thrashed for 167,000 miles and abused by 3 learner drivers - and now handles the power of the new engine. The only small problem I could say is changing down gears 2nd to 1st...but there is a large ratio difference between 2nd and 1st (well there is on early RAVs).

Post back if you identify its a clunk or whatever. The clunk will happen on accleration and deceleration if its the rear diff or suspension.

[Raver too]

Thanks for replies.

Not sure what to think now. I have had another good run and put the clutch through some testing and it seems ok. It fights to keep going rather than give up and stall. It's also unlikely its had any gearbox or clutch overhauls/replacements going by the history I have (I know history of 2nd owner from about 35,000 miles -up to present). The car doesn't off-road or pull anything - it's had an easy life with regard to me driving top speed usually kept to about 3,000 RPM!

If anything I CAN notice, the gears seem to restrict and slow it down more than I've ever noticed. I mean that I can release the throttle right off and coast 'in gear' (the lower gears obviously are easier and safer to experiment with!) and the rev's not too high or low - i.e. I'll be in a gear that feels right for the speed I'm doing. The gearbox / transmission / or engine? seems to not feel so free-flowing as I remember.

Given the cold weather, I bear this in mind and even when warmed up the clutch seems as good as I can remember but something else seems to be playing up I'm just not sure what or how to diagnose any further.

I wonder if most capable garages or gearbox/clutch clinics are used to this sort of thing or will I have a nightmare week-long job with an arm-long bill?

again thanks for the help so far

[anchorman]

I wonder if most capable garages or gearbox/clutch clinics are used to this sort of thing or will I have a nightmare week-long job with an arm-long bill?

Yes you probably will so if you are not sure or you don't have a good relationship with a garage you can trust just live with it for a bit until you are satisfied that something is developing. You can sometimes look too hard - especially if something gets stuck in your craw.

Keeps us informed.

[bothwell_buyer]

Thanks for replies.

Not sure what to think now. I have had another good run and put the clutch through some testing and it seems ok. It fights to keep going rather than give up and stall. It's also unlikely its had any gearbox or clutch overhauls/replacements going by the history I have (I know history of 2nd owner from about 35,000 miles -up to present). The car doesn't off-road or pull anything - it's had an easy life with regard to me driving top speed usually kept to about 3,000 RPM!

If anything I CAN notice, the gears seem to restrict and slow it down more than I've ever noticed. I mean that I can release the throttle right off and coast 'in gear' (the lower gears obviously are easier and safer to experiment with!) and the rev's not too high or low - i.e. I'll be in a gear that feels right for the speed I'm doing. The gearbox / transmission / or engine? seems to not feel so free-flowing as I remember.

Given the cold weather, I bear this in mind and even when warmed up the clutch seems as good as I can remember but something else seems to be playing up I'm just not sure what or how to diagnose any further.

I wonder if most capable garages or gearbox/clutch clinics are used to this sort of thing or will I have a nightmare week-long job with an arm-long bill?

again thanks for the help so far

I'm not sure if I'm fully understanding what you're saying - probably the cultural differences and more like the excess Guinness I had last night...should stick to whisky!!

Anyway - here goes and please don't take the huff if I've misunderstood!!

If you are letting the clutch out (assuming you are standing on the brakes) and the engine isn't stalling, then it sounds like either the pressure plate is knackered or the clutch plate is worn??

I always found that my RAV would slow down quite quickly whilst in gear but without the accelarator or brakes - part of the 4x4 transmission drag. It still happens with the new turbo engine quite markedly, from high or low speed. I've not had the chance to really try out my brakes yet!!!

One thing I did have to change was the driveshaft centre support bearing. It had stiffened up/almost locked up. That was at 160,000mls.

Theres 2 routes you could try - 1 is to ask a friendly mechanic for an opinion after a test drive. The second is to do the same at a Toyota dealer, without agreeing to get the work done - just a diagnosis without pulling the car apart. A secret one you could do is accost a toyota mechanic leaving work at the end of his shift and ask him/her if they do 'homers'??

If I lived closer to you then I'd have tried driving it myself - sorry. Good luck and let us know how things go.

[bothwell_buyer]

Just a silly question.....the electric operated diff lock wouldn't be on by any chance?? That would alter the handling of the car, slow down, etc

[Raver too]

No the diff-lock isn't on. I've probably used the function 3 times in the 2 years I've owned my Rav.

In hindsight I'd say it's been a gradual worsening although the car is so reliable and comfortable I probably put it down to other factors....'oh i'll check the tyre pressures and brakes pads etc this weekend' sort of thing. I usually only ever end up changing the oil (every 2-3,000 miles on av) and, perhaps change the spk plugs. Everything else looks fine by eye and I haven't done mechanical work since I rode motorbikes some decade ago.

Because it's gradually become less smooth It makes sense something/s is/are worn just gonna be a learning curve as to what it is. Hopefully the garage this tuesday will get an idea of what is up, and if need be I have been recommended a gearbox/transmission place about 15miles away who deal with jap and foreign imports. Might ring them for ideas anyway.

I will keep u all informed. Just one of those annoying things, you know somethings wrong and could become serious but being the toyota workhorse it is it just fights on and to perhaps all but trained eyes/ears, nothing seems to be drastically wrong. It's the large bills that comes with these problems that is real scary! Which is why I asked whether it's worth changing a cam belt at the same time! £600+ for these sort of jobs - ouch!

P.S. While I think of it, does anyone out there know of a repair procedure for the splitting metal on the rear 'barn' door.

I've welded it up for the 3rd time now (after actually watching some old duffer reverse into the spare wheel one night last dec, and denying he had when I mentioned to him!) The split is on the top curve of the door just to the left of the spare wheel. Toyota garage guy said he'd not come across this prob before, He did however print out a toyota bulletin that explained a procedure for repaing a noisy rear door., which isn't the problem I have and is the only thing I can find in this forum and on the WWWeb.

Thanks again for any advice

[bothwell_buyer]

Haven't had a split on the rear door. I do have a noisy rear door which seems to be coming from the rear wheel bracket !! I'll need to look up those posts. Good luck on tuesday.

[anchorman]

R4W is closed at the moment but when it reopens just have a look at the TSBs. I'm sure there is one for fixing the back door. Could be a 4.2 though;

http://rav4world.com/forums/index.php

[chatman]

R4W is closed at the moment but when it reopens just have a look at the TSBs. I'm sure there is one for fixing the back door. Could be a 4.2 though;

http://rav4world.com/forums/index.php

beat you too that one anchorman :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

[anchorman]

Draw I reckon!!! :D

[chatman]

Draw I reckon!!! :D

Have to be down to the photo finish then.... :D :D :D

[bothwell_buyer]

Draw I reckon!!! :D

Have to be down to the photo finish then.... :D :D :D

can ye tell me why yer diesel needs tae have the annotation D4D?? I thocht aw proper RAVs had 4 wheel drive an didnae need tae be pointed oot as a 4x4 or D4D as ye have. Mines disnae have D4onything and disnae need it cos its the original beast in its purest form..... :lol:

[anchorman]

Honestly, if it wasn't distilled in some highland...............

It means direct injection 4 cylinder common rail diesel but the Badge for all that would have covered the indicators up so its D4D for short.

[bothwell_buyer]

Honestly, if it wasn't distilled in some highland...............

It means direct injection 4 cylinder common rail diesel but the badge for all that would have covered the indicators up so its D4D for short.

Aye richt. Think ahm daft? It means Diesel wi 4 wheel drive! Ah've read aboot the names as weel! Its a big enuf Badge as weel.

[chatman]

Honestly, if it wasn't distilled in some highland...............

It means direct injection 4 cylinder common rail diesel but the badge for all that would have covered the indicators up so its D4D for short.

Aye richt. Think ahm daft? It means Diesel wi 4 wheel drive! Ah've read aboot the names as weel! Its a big enuf Badge as weel.

Arr you mean this Badge

[bothwell_buyer]

Honestly, if it wasn't distilled in some highland...............

It means direct injection 4 cylinder common rail diesel but the badge for all that would have covered the indicators up so its D4D for short.

Aye richt. Think ahm daft? It means Diesel wi 4 wheel drive! Ah've read aboot the names as weel! Its a big enuf Badge as weel.

Arr you mean this Badge

Ye and the rest o the plastic Badge wi it. Ma 1989 Jaguar XJ40 had a common rail injection system an aw and it never had a 6-4D badge!! Canny con a Fifer!!

[Raver too]

Garage Had a look/drive/listen or whatever.

Seems as though no-one has an idea. Probably gonna sell as it is and tell whoever the most likely scenario. I'd rather be honest. But it seems it wasn't playing up today. Even drove well.

It leads me to thinks perhaps despite any wear and tear expected, my only problem might be a fluid/oil seal or something of that ilk, perhaps contaminating the clutch plate.

If it gets much much worse and it's not sold then something must be done and by that time it should be obvious to a mechanic wha is up.

Thanks for all suggestions anyway.

What about that geezers car getting keyed in the other post! I had one wing keyed in the first week I had mine which obvously p###ed me off. One of the neighbours keeps banging their door into mine and other cars (I don't have a driveway unfortunately). If I ever catch someone in the act, whoooooeeee

[bothwell_buyer]

Garage Had a look/drive/listen or whatever.

Seems as though no-one has an idea. Probably gonna sell as it is and tell whoever the most likely scenario. I'd rather be honest. But it seems it wasn't playing up today. Even drove well.

It leads me to thinks perhaps despite any wear and tear expected, my only problem might be a fluid/oil seal or something of that ilk, perhaps contaminating the clutch plate.

If it gets much much worse and it's not sold then something must be done and by that time it should be obvious to a mechanic wha is up.

Thanks for all suggestions anyway.

What about that geezers car getting keyed in the other post! I had one wing keyed in the first week I had mine which obvously p###ed me off. One of the neighbours keeps banging their door into mine and other cars (I don't have a driveway unfortunately). If I ever catch someone in the act, whoooooeeee

I've been watching RAV prices on eBay - what sort of price are you thinking of? PM me if you like.

Ian

[findlater6]

does anybody have imformation on how to remove the gearbox on a rav4 d4d and what it entails eg does the transfer box split from the main box or does the subframe need to be droped inorder to remove it. thanks

[bothwell_buyer]

does anybody have imformation on how to remove the gearbox on a rav4 d4d and what it entails eg does the transfer box split from the main box or does the subframe need to be droped inorder to remove it. thanks

far as I know, the gearbox and transfer box will split if the bolts/nuts aren't rusted on. I think the subframe needs dropped, but you might be able to wangle the gearbox out by itself. If its the clutch you are doing, I've seen the clutch replaced whilst the engine is in situ but on mine, the transfer box and gearbox were rusted together. The two are heavy = a 2 man job and easier on a ramp.

Dunno what you are doing, but Marc at The Garage in Motherwell who specialises in Jap cars (MR2s; Skylines etc) knows a good bit. You could try ringing him or asking for a quote - say Ian said to ring (ahm no paying but)....01698 265303

being in South Lanarkshire, you'll not be far away.

[anchorman]

does anybody have imformation on how to remove the gearbox on a rav4 d4d and what it entails eg does the transfer box split from the main box or does the subframe need to be droped inorder to remove it. thanks

It should come out OK on yours. If you pm me with your email address I can send you some info.

[findlater6]

does anybody have imformation on how to remove the gearbox on a rav4 d4d and what it entails eg does the transfer box split from the main box or does the subframe need to be droped inorder to remove it. thanks

It should come out OK on yours. If you pm me with your email address I can send you some info.

[findlater6]

thanks anchorman as any info on the removal of the gearbox would be appreciated. my email address is johnboy10005@btinternet.com