T180 Niggles

[bomber06]

I am still in the honeymoon period with my T180, but there are a couple of things which are starting to bug me and I was wondering whether these are normal Rav traits or could there be something wrong. My RAV was registered in March 06 and has 10K miles on the clock.

1 - I find that when I am coasting in second and depress the clutch I sometimes here what I can only describe as a "clank" noise, I assume this is when the gear is disengaged. I havnt experienced this with any other car I have owned, but this is the first 4x4. Is this normal?

2 - Again maybe clutch related - The change from first to second gear is sometimes very stiff, as if the clutch is not depressed enough. Once in second, gears 2nd-6th are fine.

The previous owner has had a detachable to bar fitted so I was wondering whether towing could have caused these problems, although the car had only done 10K in 18 months.

I was looking through a previous service report and it states that a clutch fault was highlighted by the previous owner but nothing was found when investigated. With the horror stories around the DMF issue, alarm bells are starting to ring.

3 - Having previously owned a 110bhp Seat Leon before the RAV and achieving 55mpg I am very aware of my mpg. Currently I am not getting anywhere near the 40mpg boasted in the RAV4 brochure/technical spec, its more like 30-32 mpg, and I can honestly say that I am not "Razzing" it round the roads of County Durham. What sort of MPG are other T180 owners achieving?

All in all I am loving the car, I was just wondering whether I should getthese little problems checked out while under warranty.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Bomber

[ash7jar]

Hi there sorry to hear about your niggles,

But i have to say let the car bed in give it about 7 to 10.000 miles

My Rav4 T180 did not do the mpg to start with, but now i have 33.000mils on there its much better not 40 but that might be the way i drive it

But on a nice drive i can get 40mpg now

Keep with it. ;)

[Darkside]

I'm on an extended honeymoon, as my T180 was bought new April 07 and I'm just coming up to its 1st service @ 10,000 miles.

Clutch- What you say is not normal, well not experienced by me with my car, suggest that gets checked.

MPG- Emotive one that, my experience is it honestly is how it is driven. I do a daily 40 mile round trip (on up and down roads with plenty of gear changes). I can get an average of about 40 mpg if sticking to just under the limits and being rather gentle with the right foot. When driving @normally@ and not paying constant attention to the mpg I get about 35/36.

If giving the gas a roasting, (or on loger journeys on motorways at steady faster speeds) I get the figures you mention.

Hope this is of use.

[anchorman]

I am still in the honeymoon period with my T180, but there are a couple of things which are starting to bug me and I was wondering whether these are normal Rav traits or could there be something wrong. My RAV was registered in March 06 and has 10K miles on the clock.

1 - I find that when I am coasting in second and depress the clutch I sometimes here what I can only describe as a "clank" noise, I assume this is when the gear is disengaged. I havnt experienced this with any other car I have owned, but this is the first 4x4. Is this normal?

2 - Again maybe clutch related - The change from first to second gear is sometimes very stiff, as if the clutch is not depressed enough. Once in second, gears 2nd-6th are fine.

The previous owner has had a detachable to bar fitted so I was wondering whether towing could have caused these problems, although the car had only done 10K in 18 months.

I was looking through a previous service report and it states that a clutch fault was highlighted by the previous owner but nothing was found when investigated. With the horror stories around the DMF issue, alarm bells are starting to ring.

3 - Having previously owned a 110bhp Seat Leon before the RAV and achieving 55mpg I am very aware of my mpg. Currently I am not getting anywhere near the 40mpg boasted in the RAV4 brochure/technical spec, its more like 30-32 mpg, and I can honestly say that I am not "Razzing" it round the roads of County Durham. What sort of MPG are other T180 owners achieving?

All in all I am loving the car, I was just wondering whether I should getthese little problems checked out while under warranty.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Bomber

Hi Bomber

The clutch and gearbox issue you have highlighted are "normal" or at least they are for the RAV with 6 speed box. Its a complicated design with 2 layshafts and has quite a lot of backlash in it. If you press the clutch while coasting or on over-run the gears which are under tension (not load) ar suddenly released and they all relax and clatter (you have to use your imagination a bit but that is basically what is happening).

Again, the stiff selection of the lower gears is well chronicled on the forum. You have to go back to the twin layshaft design to understand what is happening. I don't intend getting deep into gearbox design but normally you have one input shaft and one output shaft side by side. Gears are arranged along each shaft but have different ratios. When you engage a gear it just follows tha path from the input shaft, through the ratio of the engaged gear and out through the output shaft. Because the RAV has a big transverse engine and 6 speed gearbox, they have shortend the overall length of the box by having 2 layshafts which is then easier to accommodate. One shaft has 1st to 4th and the other has 5th, 6th and reverse. Now, if you use 2 layshafts you may solve the problem of length but you have to employ some very accurate engineering because while 2 shafts turn easily when engaged with each other, 3 can bind up on each other. One way to resolve this is to relax the tolerances inside the box so effectively they don't fit too well but this can cause another headache with smooth selection of gears. Synchronising 1st and 2nd and actually the others but less so with each incremental step is more difficult because the difference in speed between the driving and the driven gear is much greater. The gearbox is actually a masterpiece of engineering but despite the use of triple syncros on the lower gears they can still catch and crunch/be difficult. These little syncro rings or clutches are bringing together the speed of gears spinning at hugely different rates. As an aside, have you noticed that there is a synchro on reverse? If you try to select reverse while the wheels are just (1-2mph) moving forward it will slip in a treat rather than the characteristic crunch you used to get with lesser gearboxes.

It is nothing to do with the towbar and it does seem to mellow a bit with age so it might get better and you will become more used to it. You can ease the effect of the over-run clatter by either just putting a slight bit of power on which will take the tension of the gears, use a higher gear so the effect of tension is reduced or bringing the speed right down which effectively does the same thing.

You can smooth out the selection of the lower gears by changing up sooner rather than allowing the revs to build up (just go to 1500-2000rpm where the difference in gear speed is not so great) and also fairly slowly to allow the synchros more time to synchronise the speeds. As you get up the box - 3rd, 4th, 5th then 6th you can go progressively higher in revs and pull the gearstick through the changes quicker and quicker as the changes in gear speed are less.

Don't worry about the DMF. We have no known issues with 4.3 DMFs and hopefully as we are on another generation of development we won't either unless they have been subject to abuse.

The RAV is a good half tonne more than the Megane and will use more fuel. It is also easy to forget how well these things go and while you are not leathering your car around you will no doubt have no problem keeping up with traffic and if you scale it up to the extra weight things add up a bit more. Steve (of aberdeen fame) did quite a good review of good RAV 4.3 driving practice. Just have a trawl through this;

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=67920

I can send you some very interesting pdf files explaining the very clever gearbox if you wish but you'll need to pm me with your email address.

Regards

[anchorman]

I'm on an extended honeymoon, as my T180 was bought new April 07 and I'm just coming up to its 1st service @ 10,000 miles.

Clutch- What you say is not normal, well not experienced by me with my car, suggest that gets checked.

MPG- Emotive one that, my experience is it honestly is how it is driven. I do a daily 40 mile round trip (on up and down roads with plenty of gear changes). I can get an average of about 40 mpg if sticking to just under the limits and being rather gentle with the right foot. When driving @normally@ and not paying constant attention to the mpg I get about 35/36.

If giving the gas a roasting, (or on loger journeys on motorways at steady faster speeds) I get the figures you mention.

Hope this is of use.

Darkside

Sorry to contradict! I know what he means by this noise or feel he describes and they all do it. Let yours run down a steepish slope on over-run and allow the revs to build up. If you press the clutch the gears all rattle around as they spring free from tension.

Cheers

[Darkside]

Darkside

Sorry to contradict! I know what he means by this noise or feel he describes and they all do it. Let yours run down a steepish slope on over-run and allow the revs to build up. If you press the clutch the gears all rattle around as they spring free from tension.

Cheers

Hey, I'm no expert - just never heard it. Perhaps have the stereo on too loud or riding my motorbike without earplugs has damaged the hearing!!

[duncerduncs]

Hi Bomber

I also came from a SEAT Leon to a T180, and like you I've found the gearbox to be a little different! :D

I've found you need to be very precise when changing from first to second with the clutch fully down. I took the Rav back to the dealer at first, only when I drove an XT5 did I realise it was the same!

My only advise would be, as anchorman says, change early or pause very slightly when changing from first to second. I've found the gearbox to loosen even further when it gets to 15000+ miles.

Hope this helps :)

[Manxrav]

I,ve got 20000 miles on my March06 T180, touch wood no issue with gearbox.My biggest gripe is MPG, 33 to 35 MPG is roughly what I get out of mine.When I come over to the Uk I believe it or not get better MPG,probably because it,s all Motorway back to where I used to live.On Island we don,t have any motorways but we do have a lot more " open-limit" roads so it,s probably down to my style of driving.

Clare

[Sussex_Paul]

Hello Bomber!

I was going to give the same detailed answer as Anchorman, but he beat me too it!

I do concur with what he said though!

So, in liew of that, I'll mention that mine is not doing particularly well on it's mpg at the moment.

With the wife driving = 31 mpg.

With me driving (and trying hard to be gentle) = 34mpg.

Mostly, the driving is mixed A/B road cross country.

Cheers.

Paul.

[sywy]

Just agreeing with everyone else. I get between 32-36 mpg in my T180, over mixed driving.

[Manxrav]

Would love to know how Toyota give a combined cycle of 40MPG for the T180?

Clare

[Parts-King]

The fuel consumption figures, combined or otherwise are an emotive subject, but everyone is working on the same base level so the way it's calculated is the same, you can read a little about combined cycles here Most customers I have spoken to, seem to get in the 35-40 area, depending how the car is driven, it is VERY easy to be heavy with your right foot on the T180 without realising it. For those interested in the gearbox, the following picture may add to Anchormans description

Kingo

[chatman]

Blimey Kingo :eek: Nice exploded diagram....

Just out of interest and to keep you busy :rolleyes: What's the collective price of all that lot....I curios that's all...

[Parts-King]

Blimey Kingo :eek: Nice exploded diagram....

Just out of interest and to keep you busy :rolleyes: What's the collective price of all that lot....I curios that's all...

Errrrr.......far too much to report on 'ere :D:

£2300 for a box complete, probably double that in individual componants

Kingo

[chatman]

£2300 for a box complete,

Is that a cardboard box full of bits or the gear box :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Parts-King]

£2300 for a box complete,

Is that a cardboard box full of bits or the gear box :lol: :lol: :lol:

Noooo, thats the complete box, we even build it up for you :D:

A cardboard box of gearbox gubbins will be double that price.....

Shall I order a few up for you.....just in case? get yer Visa card out Chatman, how else will I be able to afford another trip to the Maldives? :D:

Kingo

[chatman]

Noooo, thats the complete box, we even build it up for you :D:

A cardboard box of gearbox gubbins will be double that price.....

Shall I order a few up for you.....just in case? get yer Visa card out Chatman, how else will I be able to afford another trip to the Maldives? :D:

Kingo

HA HA HA Thought you had the conglomerate monopoly on the cardboard box front.....

Last time you where in Kenya it was all calm...you left now there all fighting...did you tell them how much the parts where for there Hilux's :ffs: :ffs: :ffs: :ffs: :ffs:

[Parts-King]

Hmmmm, Cardboardboxes R us, has a certain ring to it.......

I only just did Kenya in time......good job I'm not there now......would need to blow the cobwebs off my tin hat Well this emotion looks like a tin hat :D:

Kingo

[duncerduncs]

Kingo

Kingo,

Do Toyota supply the super-glue to put it all together...?

[chatman]

STAND BY STAND BY............................INCOMING..................

got sent this today and thought it adeptly suited for TOC.......

CLICK HERE

Just need to see if they do a Child Refuse Vehicle version........or even a Nedflander come to think of it......

[chatman]

Do Toyota supply the super-glue to put it all together...?

Probably get it home and find there's some washer or spring thingy missing...or even worse a 5 speed gearbox

[Manxrav]

Quality!!!!-what ever next for our lovely kids

Clare

[Parts-King]

Do Toyota supply the super-glue to put it all together...?

Super glue and a bag of six inch nails I find usually does the job :D: :D: :D:

Kingo

[bomber06]

Thanks for the responses lads + lasses, you have defintley put my mind at ease!

Cheers

bomber :group-cuddles:

[cc.gibson]

Same here.

Picked up an '07 T180 at the weekend (yes i realise I've not given it enough time yet but it has already done 8k) and the change from 1st to 2nd is very 'clanky'.

The fuel consumnption is also a problem - coming from a Golf GTI with a quoted 35mpg (which was easily achieveable on a 10 mile motorway / a-road trip to work) the Rav has so far given 27.7mpg (quoted 40.2 i think) at best according to the trip computer - which is backed up by the fact that the 70 miles I've done so far have cost £13.50 in petrol. I wasn't expecting any sort of huge saving, but i certainly didn't expect my fuel bill to add early 1/4!

Apart from that though i am very happy with the car and don't really miss the GTI at all - although i do miss the 5 levels of heated seats rather than the on/off of the T180.