2002 Gen 7 140bhp Engine Woes... Help ! & Thoughts

[matrix]

Here is my story...doh !

late October 2007 the annoying semi rattle sound that i believed was a failing belt tensioner ~ starts to get louder..

A week later my regular 32 mile trip to work becomes embarassing as now on any acceleration the engine makes a noise a bit like a stick against a bicycle wheels spokes.

2 days later having already arranged for my uncle who does private repairs to see it on my day off...just before some traffic lights in Hemel ...engine mgmt light comes on, the sound like a chin coming off can be heard...kapput dead Celi.

The twist is Celi trailered to my uncles yard.. over next few days the following checked.

Cam cover off.... no sign of valve issues

Timing cover off...tensioner arm intact & timing belt still intact and correct tension~( surprisingly as i was convinced that this was the problem )

No choice left so Uncle manual turned engine and compression tested all cylinders ~ all puckerreadings

No choice left so he trys to start it so he can hear the noise for himself...... wham starts first time ! purrs like a kitten...timing spot on etc...

Now here it gets weird...purrs like a kitten but if you touch accelerator and i mean apply lightest of pressure even with finger tips on peddle it sounds like you just poured a bag of bolts in...

The noise attracted the attention of nearby mechanics ( 9 of them )...non of whom could agree what the noise was and had not heard one like it before...

and bearing in mind good compression and all the other positives from previous investigations it became more puzzling..

i think its big end shells but im just guessing...

so any help / thoughts

1. Any thoughts of problem or similar experiences ?

2. Should i just sell it as non runner scrap.

3. Replacement engine? if so i can't find many places that do a good 1 FZE engine

4. Uncle hasn't taken engine apart yet to save me cash. likely cost of big end repair if thats problem?

I love my Celi but I think repair outways cost ...im 6ft 2 and 16 stone but i wanna cry as i think its me outta pocket and curtains for my beloved car.

[T600]

Sorry to hear this.

What service history has the car got?

There are lots of oil problems with the earlier versions of this engine; not the same at all as the problem you describe, though your problem may be the consequence of the high oil consumption problems that others are having.

It's possible you may find that if you have full service history Toyota will replace the short engine. I wouldn't count on it, but has to be worth trying.

Incidentally if you do have to buy a replacement engine yourself, you'll find they're in short supply because of the oil problem. And watch out that you're not buying another one from a pre-facelift car that has the oil problems itself.

Good luck.

[matrix]

Sorry to hear this.

What service history has the car got?

There are lots of oil problems with the earlier versions of this engine; not the same at all as the problem you describe, though your problem may be the consequence of the high oil consumption problems that others are having.

It's possible you may find that if you have full service history Toyota will replace the short engine. I wouldn't count on it, but has to be worth trying.

Incidentally if you do have to buy a replacement engine yourself, you'll find they're in short supply because of the oil problem. And watch out that you're not buying another one from a pre-facelift car that has the oil problems itself.

Good luck.

Thanks for the support

Well service history was Full dealer up to 70K

but done privately after to reduce costs

and just before this drama i have just remembered i inexplicably had to totally fill the car with oil as it lost the lot with no signs of any leaks...which seemed odd as thats a lot of oil to just vanish ??

I have had a quote for £1800 to fit and replace engine, which comes with 60,000 mile warranty or 5 years...

but again i may need to get engine strpped as not even sure what issue really is or if it really needs new engine

will keep post updated

[T600]

Sounds like the loss of engine oil - possibly burnt due to the oval piston problem - may have resulted in failure of the main bearings.

If that's the case then you ought to have the compression tested and if that's poor you need either re-bore as well as repair to the bearings. effectively a full re-con of the short engine.

Seriously, contact your local Mr T and try to get it done under warranty; dealers don't pay for warranty work out of their own pockets - they claim it back from Toyota. So they should try to help you if they think Toyota will approve the work.

The press reports Toyota replacing engines as old as 7 years under warranty because they're embarrassed by the problems with this engine. Give it a go, you've nothing to lose, though the lack of full TSH may count against you unless you can prove that the people who did the services after 70K did the job properly.

That's a long warranty you've been quoted; I'm amazed anyone can give that kind of guarantee on an engine, but I might be tempted to pay that if I was sure that the garage were good for their word on that. You don't get that many years guarantee with a new car, and this is on an engine known for its problems.

[matrix]

Sounds like the loss of engine oil - possibly burnt due to the oval piston problem - may have resulted in failure of the main bearings.

If that's the case then you ought to have the compression tested and if that's poor you need either re-bore as well as repair to the bearings. effectively a full re-con of the short engine.

Seriously, contact your local Mr T and try to get it done under warranty; dealers don't pay for warranty work out of their own pockets - they claim it back from Toyota. So they should try to help you if they think Toyota will approve the work.

The press reports Toyota replacing engines as old as 7 years under warranty because they're embarrassed by the problems with this engine. Give it a go, you've nothing to lose, though the lack of full TSH may count against you unless you can prove that the people who did the services after 70K did the job properly.

That's a long warranty you've been quoted; I'm amazed anyone can give that kind of guarantee on an engine, but I might be tempted to pay that if I was sure that the garage were good for their word on that. You don't get that many years guarantee with a new car, and this is on an engine known for its problems.

I think lack of FSH and not being main dealer is an issue for me...but the bizzare fact is that all 4 cylinders are showing compression spot on for its age just slightly under new engine compression fihures...bizzare i know...which is why my uncle and the other mechs are puzzled...He didnt really want the ag of removing engine but i can see any other way...as it certainly ain't going anywhere in its current state !

I know he has been looking fro cheap 1 FZE so between the 2 engines we can end up with one good one...but no joy yet as prices are so high...that as i said earlier its a case of wether i just get ris and sell to salvage etc as non runner which would be a huge shame....

[T600]

I think lack of FSH and not being main dealer is an issue for me...but the bizzare fact is that all 4 cylinders are showing compression spot on for its age just slightly under new engine compression fihures...bizzare i know...which is why my uncle and the other mechs are puzzled...He didnt really want the ag of removing engine but i can see any other way...as it certainly ain't going anywhere in its current state !

I know he has been looking fro cheap 1 FZE so between the 2 engines we can end up with one good one...but no joy yet as prices are so high...that as i said earlier its a case of wether i just get ris and sell to salvage etc as non runner which would be a huge shame....

Yes, sorry you did say compression was good.

Wonder what happened to the oil then. Good luck with it though; as you say it would be a shame not to fix it as they're great cars.

[matrix]

Cheers T ... sorry for typo's but its late..

will check in later for others thoughts or contact ideas....maybe for a brand new crate 1FZE for £40 would be good lol

[fazzer]

Cheers T ... sorry for typo's but its late..

will check in later for others thoughts or contact ideas....maybe for a brand new crate 1FZE for £40 would be good lol

Sorry to hear about your troubles,i would be interested in taking the car of your hands or i could do the engine repair but you would have to get the car up to me(just outside chester)pm me if you are interested

[dawesy]

yep thats the big ends im afraid. seen a few of these now. its down to the engine running low on oil.

a guy rang TR&D with an elise (Toyota 190 engine but same bottom end) the car is two years old and has only covered 20,000 miles and the bottom end is shot. lotus wont do it under warranty and want £8,000 to fit a new engine, Toyota want nearly £6,000 +vat for a new crate engine and a bottom end comes in at £1,200+vat.

you may get away with new bearing shells but it depends how much wear there is on the crankshaft. dependant on wear it may be possible to regrind the crank or if to far gone a new one will be needed.

i would advise against a second hand engine as this may have the same problems. once the bearings are replaced you will need to keep a regular eye on the oil level as it will continue to use oil

[matrix]

yep thats the big ends im afraid. seen a few of these now. its down to the engine running low on oil.

a guy rang TR&D with an elise (Toyota 190 engine but same bottom end) the car is two years old and has only covered 20,000 miles and the bottom end is shot. lotus wont do it under warranty and want £8,000 to fit a new engine, Toyota want nearly £6,000 +vat for a new crate engine and a bottom end comes in at £1,200+vat.

you may get away with new bearing shells but it depends how much wear there is on the crankshaft. dependant on wear it may be possible to regrind the crank or if to far gone a new one will be needed.

i would advise against a second hand engine as this may have the same problems. once the bearings are replaced you will need to keep a regular eye on the oil level as it will continue to use oil

Cheers Dawesy, the growing concensus amongst me and my mates is ye olde big ends as you suggested..

And my uncle who has done private services etc for last 20 years said exactly the same as you , beware of recon engines etc....as often worse than the one you have or ends up with same issue as the swapped out one..

I will still scavenge around for parts prices to see if i can do this at a cheaper price than garage but all a bit gloomy at the mo...

Yep and i contacted Toyota for an idea of potential costs and after my missus performed CPR on me and prised the phone out of my hand i hung up from Toyota!!!!

I didn't know i knew so many 4 letter swear words...then just ended up in a cross between laughing and crying...surely the man at Toyota was an actor from Beadles about just winding me up? But alas no

Not gonna give up just yet tho with my beloved Celi

But

[celicavvti]

Hey,

I've just been through a similar thing, found out my 2000 Gen7 was using A LOT of oil, compression tested it and found that one cylinder was low.

Anyways, took the head off, and found some huge scour marks down the bore of the offending cylinder. Priced up getting it re-bored and rebuilt - came to around £2000 to get it down properly. Didn't fancy a re-con from the internet (as you're not sure what you are getting), but eventually TCB in cornwall came up trumps and I got a low mileage MR2 engine for £750 +vat. cost me another £500 to get it in (including new clutch) and now i'm back on the road . . .

Good luck if you need to find a new engine - decent ones are !Removed! rare . . . .

Shaun.

[matrix]

Cheers for your support Shaun

Yep very sceptical about recon or engines sold as "gen low mileage" takes a lot of trust to believe them...after all if i was a con artist i could whip out my crap engine right now and selll it as low mileage...but what a bag of bolts they would be buying.

Currently tryng to get parts prices etc for myself so i can make final decision on what to do.... which currently seem to be to badger my uncle into doing it...getting someone else to help me or doing it myself... so i am looking for crankshaft parts, bearing shells etc, and looking for local engineering shop to do a rebore if neccesary.

Worse case scenario sell it! Doh !!!

[giler]

Sorry to hear this mate, I have had this problem twice now, and it is all due to Toyota selling a batch of dodgy engines prior to 2002.

Toyota will replace the engine under warranty if:

Car is under 7 years old

done less than 100k miles

has Full Service History - does NOT have to be Toyota service history, but must be full.

They weren't offering this warranty 2 years ago when my original engine developed oval pistons, so i shelled out over £2.5K on a reconditioned engine.

That has now developed the same oval piston problem due to oil disappearing at an alarming rate.

Because i'd had an engine change my service history was invalid and i can't claim on the warranty, but i love my Celica, so i've now bought a Cat C insurance write-off, but a T-Sport model, and will be changing the engine myself. Car cost £1450, and should be able to break it and sell the parts for what i paid, meaning it'll cost me next to nothing.

TCB (Toyota Car Breakers) in Cornwall have been recommended for engines, few people on the Celica-Club.co.uk have got engines from there and never had a problem, just make sure you get a late 2001 onwards engine, as Toyota had fixed the oil consumption problem by then.

http://www.tcbparts.co.uk/

Whatever you do, DO NOT use the following companies, they are all 1 and the same. This is who did my original engine swap, they cocked the whole thing up fitting wrong gaskets etc, and are a regular on BBC Watchdog:

http://www.reconditioned-engines.co.uk/?gc...CFSFYEgodEQ76PQ

http://www.findanengine.co.uk/

http://www.internet-marketing-kent.co.uk/h...ntre-72849.aspx

They are currently trading under the names Heathrow Engine Center, and Hallmead Engine Center, although this changes every year.

Good luck.....

[andy y411jmj]

Yeah buddy same wot happened to me...lack of oil for me when i just bought it, filled it with 2 litres but alas was too late, piston went through th short block like one of the guys above said. i got a 24k milage engine for £950 including postage came with 2 months warrenty.

But now iv got the problem of my engine its whistling and squeeling so i think thts more the noise the engine makes when tensioner is goin or fan belt is goin...waiting on replies from others to help me out with my problem now lol...good luck.