Non Turbo Power

[McLovin]

evening all, what would I need to get around 270 bhp from my 1993 3sge mr2 engine?

they come as 158bhp as standard, lets see what you can come up with :)

[JappyBeast]

You will need alot of money!

It's costly getting to just 200BHP, have you considered a turbo conversion? It would be the cheaper option!

[acstreet]

270 is possible but as said you need money and patients and knowledge.

Im planning on doing the 200bhp as i dont want turbo charged

Im getting 264 cams

head ported and polished

4-1 manifold

decat and exhaust

new shims

new pistons

lightened flywheel

apexi air filter with cold air feed and oil catch can

New gaskets all round

general full service oil, fuel, filters etc etc

aftermarket leads and ugraded plugs

And other lil mods which probaly wont do nothing but add more to the list

Oh and nos

with nos im hoping to get about 250+ bhp how long my engine will last i dont know

Have i got the money? no not really but i have time and patience and friends who can get parts cheap, as this is now going to be a project of mine as i will be driving my black mr2 in the meantime

So gives you a rough idea but this will be in the region where you could just but a turbo conversion or a v6 conversion all depends what you want to do

Im doing it for fun and for a project to keep me busy and to achieve something not many people have done

[Leeky]

getting 270bhp from a 3sge is going to cost you at least £4000 if you ask me.

That an insaine amount of blueprinting, headwork etc and the internals will be crazy money

It will also be aweful as a daily driver as the huge cam durations needed for such horsepower will make it idle and run at low speeds like a total dog. Not something you could commute to work to comfortably.

To be honest you'd be better off swapping for a Gen 4 3SGE with VVTI and working from that as with light modification i have seen these pushing 220bhp.

Instantly your over 50bhp closer to your goal.

Then again...a 3SGTE would see you to over 300bhp easy peasy. But its not worth the money as a proper MR2 Turbo costs less to buy than a conversion costs.

I'd just forget about it myself and start saving for a faster car.

[McLovin]

ok this is my spec so far

-fully rebuilt block

-264 piper cams

-mk3 shimless buckets

-11lb ligntened 3sgte fly

-3sgte pressure plate

-na clutch rated to 300bhp

-hks adj cam pulleys

-ported and polished inlet manifold

-ported and polished XS exhaust manifold 4-1

-ported head to match the above

-xs dep2 style exhaust

-greddy emanage ecu

im yet to get noz, upto 100bhp but it will be bought when i have the cash

[Doreen_Plantpot]

I think a bag of fairy dust is needed here, 270 ponies from a 3sge!!!!!!

not laughed that long in ages.......but with your listed mods and a big shot of giggle gas you could get it, hope you do it will be interesting..but i aint holding my breath.

Leeky.................so exactly how easy is it to get a 3sgte to over 300hp as you say easy peasy....is it reliable?? what mods and prices are you talking for that kind of power????

[Leeky]

Leeky.................so exactly how easy is it to get a 3sgte to over 300hp as you say easy peasy....is it reliable?? what mods and prices are you talking for that kind of power????

The 3sgte can run a hell of a lot more than 300bhp reliably. I know people running at 400bhp with a set of forgies as daily drivers.

Firstly you need to dump the whole exhaust system. Personally i would use an XS Power Manifold, XS Power Downpipe and then an XS Power (Motoria) Exhaust System.

Set of decent sparks, a nice Blitz Panel Filter and then simply raise boost and fuelling. I would use an Apexi S-AFC and AVC-R or go the whole hog and get an Aftermarket ECU like a Link LEM G3.

300+bhp easy. ;)

[McLovin]

Cheers for the replys, 260-270 on nos and ill be happy , anything at 190 minimum without the gas and ill be happy too

tbh im not sure why im quoting BHP figures as im just wanting a fun car that will be different, and i've never been a BHP chaser

anyway a few months and it will be alive and breathing :)

[JappyBeast]

So what BHP are you running right now with those mods or is it not in the car?

[McLovin]

So what BHP are you running right now with those mods or is it not in the car?

its on a bench in my garage, its been built over the last few months, and i aim to have it in the car for may, then the running in period, then ill be experimenting with nitrous

[Doreen_Plantpot]

Leeky.................so exactly how easy is it to get a 3sgte to over 300hp as you say easy peasy....is it reliable?? what mods and prices are you talking for that kind of power????

Firstly you need to dump the whole exhaust system. Personally i would use an XS Power Manifold, XS Power Downpipe and then an XS Power (Motoria) Exhaust System.

Set of decent sparks, a nice Blitz Panel Filter and then simply raise boost and fuelling. I would use an Apexi S-AFC and AVC-R or go the whole hog and get an Aftermarket ECU like a Link LEM G3.

300+bhp easy. ;)

Was just very curious as to what route you'd go down,

First off the oem cast manifold is good for 500bhp so why change it???,

For 300bhp u only need to go to a grade 7 plug n nothing fancy is needed either..

I would of thought a good induction kit such as A'pexi power intake would be better especially with a cold feed from side vent..

Not much point in raising the fueling cos they heavily over fuel on boost as it is, so why add more fuel?? unless on a rev1/2 where u will need an FCD, for running more boost of course but looking at 300bhp ur gonna need to run 18psi/1.2bar but then you are going to have to do something about charge temps, by fitting either larger more efficient i/c or cc set up unless you want det n knock, and we all know knock pulls the timing to bits!!!!! and robs a lot of power, and makes things go bang n melt with too high charge temps.

i'm not too sure about a SAFC not the best way to control a/f ratio and i would never use one on a tubby, AVCR good piece of kit but you have to run 1.2bar on them iirc to avoid boost creep when using a de-cat downpipe. which is fine with a good cooling set up, something you missed there leeky..

G3 is ok good for add ons likes launch control, nos control etc etc but i'm sure they don't handle sequential injection well if at all, all my money would go on A'pexi PFC, shame they don'tmake them anymore but still available, top piece of kit.

Was quite interesting to see the diff aproach ppl take to modifying, but got to say on the setup u mentioned leeky, i doubt it would last long on stock intercooling or indeed reach anywhere near 300bhp. Tbh ur never gonna reach a good solid 300 without going down new ecu route, 280-290 maybe but not the magical 300. :D

[Jimlad]

300bhp can be reached easily on a rev3 engine with downpipe, exhaust, filter, plugs and something along the lines of a unichip. Have seen it on a friends mr2.

Same on a rev3 n/a , 200 can be reached with the exact same mods as above. Again, a different friend had a n/a rev3 with 200bhp.

for a rev3 300bhp tubby, you don't need to change the IC setup. on a rev1, 2 you'll see 280bhp with the same mods.

[McLovin]

300bhp can be reached easily on a rev3 engine with downpipe, exhaust, filter, plugs and something along the lines of a unichip. Have seen it on a friends mr2.

Same on a rev3 n/a , 200 can be reached with the exact same mods as above. Again, a different friend had a n/a rev3 with 200bhp.

for a rev3 300bhp tubby, you don't need to change the IC setup. on a rev1, 2 you'll see 280bhp with the same mods.

300 on a rev 1,2 or 3 without an uprated intercooler is asking for trouble, you will get it but it wont be worth it, I agree with Doreen, the charge temps will be sky high! :o on a hot summers day the timing will be more retarded than a window licker!

[Doreen_Plantpot]

300bhp can be reached easily on a rev3 engine with downpipe, exhaust, filter, plugs and something along the lines of a unichip. Have seen it on a friends mr2.

Same on a rev3 n/a , 200 can be reached with the exact same mods as above. Again, a different friend had a n/a rev3 with 200bhp.

for a rev3 300bhp tubby, you don't need to change the IC setup. on a rev1, 2 you'll see 280bhp with the same mods.

We established that you DO need ecu for 300+ and correct me if i am wrong but what is a unichip?? oh my it's a piggy back ecu!!!!, a very crude one but it does do the job,

You must be mad thinking 300bhp on a rev3 doesn't need any change in i/c lmfao, unless he lives in finland/iceland or somewhere stupid cold, i'd love to see a dyno graph and pics to prove it, and would just love to see those charge temps on those mods WITHOUT any aid in inlet temp cooling, must be a very special car i suspect, to reach 300 on around 15psi cos that's all the stock i/c can actually handle before it starts to cry and can't cool the air passing thro it enough, and with that there will certainly of been det occuring, which will pull the timing and reduce power drastically iirc for every 1 degree of !Removed! it equates to roughly 10bhp of power loss and since the rev3 maxes out at 14 degrees possible !Removed! thro ecu and knock sensor that's bout 140bhp that can potentially be lost in severe cases, assuming it was running over15/16 psi to gain quoted power figure.

So please tell me how it was done i'd love to know.

[JappyBeast]

Wasnt it someone on here with a white Rev3 300bhp? Think it was someone who lived in Scotland and eventually binned it into a wall!

[Leeky]

Leeky.................so exactly how easy is it to get a 3sgte to over 300hp as you say easy peasy....is it reliable?? what mods and prices are you talking for that kind of power????

Firstly you need to dump the whole exhaust system. Personally i would use an XS Power Manifold, XS Power Downpipe and then an XS Power (Motoria) Exhaust System.

Set of decent sparks, a nice Blitz Panel Filter and then simply raise boost and fuelling. I would use an Apexi S-AFC and AVC-R or go the whole hog and get an Aftermarket ECU like a Link LEM G3.

300+bhp easy. ;)

Was just very curious as to what route you'd go down,

First off the oem cast manifold is good for 500bhp so why change it???,

For 300bhp u only need to go to a grade 7 plug n nothing fancy is needed either..

I would of thought a good induction kit such as A'pexi power intake would be better especially with a cold feed from side vent..

Not much point in raising the fueling cos they heavily over fuel on boost as it is, so why add more fuel?? unless on a rev1/2 where u will need an FCD, for running more boost of course but looking at 300bhp ur gonna need to run 18psi/1.2bar but then you are going to have to do something about charge temps, by fitting either larger more efficient i/c or cc set up unless you want det n knock, and we all know knock pulls the timing to bits!!!!! and robs a lot of power, and makes things go bang n melt with too high charge temps.

i'm not too sure about a SAFC not the best way to control a/f ratio and i would never use one on a tubby, AVCR good piece of kit but you have to run 1.2bar on them iirc to avoid boost creep when using a de-cat downpipe. which is fine with a good cooling set up, something you missed there leeky..

G3 is ok good for add ons likes launch control, nos control etc etc but i'm sure they don't handle sequential injection well if at all, all my money would go on A'pexi PFC, shame they don'tmake them anymore but still available, top piece of kit.

Was quite interesting to see the diff aproach ppl take to modifying, but got to say on the setup u mentioned leeky, i doubt it would last long on stock intercooling or indeed reach anywhere near 300bhp. Tbh ur never gonna reach a good solid 300 without going down new ecu route, 280-290 maybe but not the magical 300. :D

Some cars are better than others ;)

I dont like the stock manifold so i would bin it personally for the Corolla WRC one or the XS Power one. And the only reason i said about changing the plugs is again thats my personal preference. I want to make sure they are new and good for it rather than have one die on me later.

The stock charge cooler is fine for 300+bhp, waste of money uprating that. You just need to get enough air to it and make sure its working 100%.

The upgrade route i have suggested is the way i personally would do it. And i have proven 300+bhp dyno on a semilar setup with one of my previous GT4's which as far as i know is still going strong now.

An induction kit will only suck in hot air from the engine bay, an enclosed airbox is far better.

It may not be the way others want to do it, but its the way i did it an it sure did work.

G3 Can do sequential injection, i have it running that way on the v8. Its an excellent ECU for the money. Not a lot it cant do.

[Doreen_Plantpot]

Has some one farted?

[Leeky]

Has some one farted?

What do you mean by that?

By the way out of curiousity, whats your 3SGTE tuning background exactly?

For a Yaris owner you seem to want to talk '3s' a lot....

[McLovin]

the stock manifold on the 3sgte IS proven for 500bhp, there is no plus side to an aftermarket manifold other than it looks nicer, infact there are big minus points like they crack, easily under the weight of the turbo hanging off it, the stock one is cast, and it just wont crack!

for what, £200-500 for a manifold, you may aswell put the money to good use that the 3sgte needs for 300bhp, and thats cooling, especially on the mr2 running a stock intercooler... shop around for second hand and i suppose a chargecooler setup from the celica could be had for £500, which will give a reliable 300bhp with the other mods listed in this topic... , or just stick an aftermarket xs cooler on for £150 and have done with it, but an MR2 3sgte DOES NEED uprated coolingto hold 300bhp reliable

[Doreen_Plantpot]

cos it says yaris on the left doesn't mean i don't have 2 gen3's also does it????

and my tuning back ground is quite good thanks for asking only around 20+ years everything from mini's to 3sgte's cossie's and a whole lot of everything in between,

why spend money on a manifold?? oh yea cos u don't like it lol must have more money than sense!! and i'm guesing if you had 2 pence, your riches would still out weigh ur knowledge a substantial amount,

now sit down at the back and behave yourself !

[Leeky]

Oh yes, MR2 will deffo need an uprated cooler as the stock one is shocking.

I was reffering to the ST205's top mount charge cooler. Perhaps we got our wires crossed there.

I know that the stock manifold is fine for 500 brake but i have always said to myself that i would go the route i mentioned above if i ever got around to buying (yet again) another GT4.

But yeah just like you said the ST205 charge cooler is fine for 300bhp. There is no need to change that one a celica, but yes on an MR2 the stock gear needs to go in the bin.

[acstreet]

all i can say is muppet, you gain more power from a aftermarket manifold end of dont matter how much power the stock one can hold the aftermarket would add more bhp and better flowing through the revs

all depends on what you want and how your money is and believe me leeky knows his stuff

[Leeky]

cos it says yaris on the left doesn't mean i don't have 2 gen3's also does it????

and my tuning back ground is quite good thanks for asking only around 20+ years everything from mini's to 3sgte's cossie's and a whole lot of everything in between,

why spend money on a manifold?? oh yea cos u don't like it lol must have more money than sense!! and i'm guesing if you had 2 pence, your riches would still out weigh ur knowledge a substantial amount,

now sit down at the back and behave yourself !

Woooo calm down before you pop a vein in that forehead of yours

I didnt say you were 'just' a yaris owner. But unless you tell me your background i wont know as im not a mind reader ok ;)

So hows about you sit back down and calm down as the only person that is getting angry is you ;)

Yes, the manifold isnt needed, but as i have said its just what i would do as i wanted BIG bhp for my next GT4 and the XS manifold has less restrictive bends which was the essence of what i was planning ;)

Now lets all get back on topic

[McLovin]

all i can say is muppet, you gain more power from a aftermarket manifold end of dont matter how much power the stock one can hold the aftermarket would add more bhp and better flowing through the revs

all depends on what you want and how your money is and believe me leeky knows his stuff

a 3sge there is need for an uprated manifold, but for 3sgte there is no need, its more harm than gain :(

[Doreen_Plantpot]

totally agree'd,,,

but this is mr2 section so the mention of 205's n cc's shouldn't come into it should it?

tbh any stainless manifold is always going to be prone to cracking, just because of the nature of the material and engine vibration/movement, it's just a waste of cash unless going the silly 500+ drag car route, for 300bhp on MR2 one of the first things has to be i/c replacement,

i'm sure you know cool intake temps are a big big factor in forced induction engines, even WI is a good affordable option.