Heater

[pimp1chez]

Descaler will melt any plastic pipes.

I'm a aircraft engineer and we have problems with the hot water systems sometimes and we can't use descaled in the system due to plastic parts and seals.

May not be the same for the heater matrix but I would be very careful

Thanks for the tip, I seem to recall seeing a post on here by a guy that experienced a leak after running descaled through his matrix. Is there anyone watching that has the heater matrix out and would know if there were any seals or rubber that might get damaged by descaler?

@Pimpchez; be good to see a few photos if you remember when you're doing yours!

tackled it in the rain an dark ,my god what a fail

after alot of cussin in the dark me an my dad got the jubilee clips of ,then managed to get sum hose pipe on it ,realised that drain de-clocker i bought was so good it actually turned to foam as soon as it touched the dam funnel .

so nothing actually went down the pipe :censor:

anyway after my dad droppin his **** pair of pliers on my subframe ,i was still cussin ,so then was a case of putting it all back together :censor:

then realised i never brought any coolant :censor:

trip to &*^&*^ Shell 20quid lighter and its $%^&*^ blue coolant ,just put about 100ml in .

so now i need to go an buy some new pink coolant ,get the matrix out properly and buy sum new jubilee clips .

not happy as you can tell , so it will get tackled properly when i get a spare day ,wish is next week never ever in my life lol

hope this helps

[Veracity]

Sounds like a well fun night was had by all!!

In all seriousness, hope that your next attempt at this will be rewarded with success. Sounds like you probably owe your old man a beer too!!

Note to self - ensure the following conditions are met when trying to do this on my own car:

- do it during daylight hours

- leave myself at least 4 hours to spare for the job

- ensure it's not raining

- buy some spare heater hose to use for filling/draining

- same regards spare engine coolant (pink stuff)

- also buy the right sort of drain cleaner/descaler product

Any other tips you chaps can think of? B)

[piesport]

Just like to say thx for refreshing the topic, would have to agree it should be a sticky :D after coming across this the other day i thought i'd try the mr muscle approach and worked great thx for everything much appriciated!

[morgie]

Good stuff piesport, great to hear of others having success with this....enjoy the heat!

pimpchez - hope you can have another go and get yours sorted!

[Veracity]

Still haven't managed to find time for this and the temperature is gradually creeping lower!!

Pimpchez, did you ever manage to give this another try?

[oldcodger]

Hey all,

Seems interesting that its the 2002 models that seems most affected, wonder if my later model with a/c has the same heater matrix or will it be different or even updated to avoid the problem ?

From what LimeCC says, could it be that, over the years adding /toping up with a non Toyota coolant could cause the scaling to occur ?

Equally if any of you have topped up with tap water and are in hard water areas, is that making things worse ?

Also what antifreeze did LimeCC and others refill with after clearing their heaters ?

Just wondering if its worth giving my matrix a good flush now as a preventative measure and / or even changing the long life cooolant if thats the root cause ??

thanks

[DS9]

I have heat but I could smell anti-freeze (Curry like smell) when I started the car in the morning.... So I added half a bottle of Holts Radweld - e.g. half of a 125ml bottle. It took about 2-3 days to seal up the leak. Now I have no curry smell and lots of heat.

But from what I've read in this thread.. I've have to change the matix when the leak gets very bad. Thanks for the tips on removing it!! Cheers!

BTW - I have the T2 1.4 petrol. Does the coolant pipes from bulk-head go straight to the heater matix? Is there any motor or valves in between?

How much is the matix from Toyota?

Cheers

DS9

PS - Thanks for all your write ups! It's a great help to others.

[Veracity]

Hey all,

Seems interesting that its the 2002 models that seems most affected, wonder if my later model with a/c has the same heater matrix or will it be different or even updated to avoid the problem ?

From what LimeCC says, could it be that, over the years adding /toping up with a non Toyota coolant could cause the caling to occur? Equally if any of you have topped up with tap water and are in hard water areas, is that making things worse ?

Also what antifreeze did LimeCC and others refill with after clearing their heaters ?

Just wondering if its worth giving my matrix a good flush now as a preventative measure and / or even changing the long life cooolant if thats the root cause ??

thanks

I think we're all agreed that if you own a Corolla from this sort of era and you're suffering problems with the heater, you have nothing to lose from performing the reverse flush procedure. I've still yet to do mine and am regretting not getting it done, the !Removed! thing takes ages before it manages to start chucking out any sort of warmth!!!

Given that the majority of the UK is either hard/very hard water, it's safe to assume that the troubles can be attributed to the build up of scale on the matrix. I'm not sure if there's much you can do to prevent it from happening? Maybe someone else here has a better idea....

I have heat but I could smell anti-freeze (Curry like smell) when I started the car in the morning.... So I added half a bottle of Holts Radweld - e.g. half of a 125ml bottle. It took about 2-3 days to seal up the leak. Now I have no curry smell and lots of heat.

But from what I've read in this thread.. I've have to change the matrix when the leak gets very bad. Thanks for the tips on removing it!! Cheers!

BTW - I have the T2 1.4 petrol. Does the coolant pipes from bulk-head go straight to the heater matrix? Is there any motor or valves in between?

Urgh, Radweld. I've not seen too many people recommending this stuff, especially since it's only a temporary fix for what could be a rather serious problem. Coolant pipes do go straight into the heater matrix without any interceding valves, etc.

[Veracity]

Further to my last comment, here's an interesting article from the Toyota Estima Owners Club that discusses some principles behind the levels of water to coolant mix and the benefits of using distilled water instead of tap water to fill up.

Mixing Toyota Red Coolant with Water

Food for thought?

[limecc]

Wife forced me into doing her matrix for the second time last weekend. Took about 45 mins in all and this time I used 100ml of liquid kettle descaler as the cleaner and didn't bother to remove the matrix. As has been said, removal is only happening if I force it to spring a leak! Those little clamps are literally a pain in the neck.

1. I removed the pipes to the engine and plugged them to minimize coolant loss. I then attached lengths of spare hose connecting one to my funnel and left the other lying on the ground so I could see what was coming out. (Before connecting the funnel I used some lung power and blew the contents of the matrix empty ready to accept the descaling solution)

2. I boiled a full kettle with the descaler inside and poured the solution from my now sparkling kettle into the matrix and left it for 10 mins. There are no seals to worry about but the exposed aluminium of the matrix is being slowly eaten away while the limescales are being rapidly eaten away.

3. I then connected the garden hosepipe which is a perfect push-fit into 5/8" rubber heater hose and flushed the matrix in both directions for 5 mins, blew out the water and filled the matrix with 50/50 Comma G30 anti freeze/distilled water mix to avoid airlocks and connected the engine pipes again. Voila! HEAT. Missus is happy and ready to provide favours again etc..

[GazzyG]

Not had any heat hardly on the drivers side of the car for awhile now. All the drivers side vents were blowing cold to luke warm anyway followed the steps from several of you guys used Domestos plug/sink unblocker and flushed out with hosepipe.

All hot now thank god! Had to sort this out while it was a mild day today. Ready for the ice and snow now.

[manalishi]

Gone

[morgie]

Hi - sorry for the delay in replying. I had the problem in my previous T Sport (an '02 plate) (here's the method I used to help resolve it).

Seems interesting that its the 2002 models that seems most affected, wonder if my later model with a/c has the same heater matrix or will it be different or even updated to avoid the problem ?

Not quite sure what you mean about your later model with A/C - all the T Sports had A/C, both pre facelift and facelift models. I haven't seen any reported issues with facelift models (from part way through 2004 onwards)...as you mention, maybe something was changed....or maybe it's just the time or factors required to notice it.

From what LimeCC says, could it be that, over the years adding /toping up with a non Toyota coolant could cause the scaling to occur ?

Equally if any of you have topped up with tap water and are in hard water areas, is that making things worse ?

Also what antifreeze did LimeCC and others refill with after clearing their heaters ?

It's a bit inconclusive, but here's what I know - it's first 2 services (10k interim and 20k full) were with Toyota - I don't believe coolant was changed. However, hard to tell as this is my previous car so I don't have the documents to hand. The 30k / 3yr service was with a private garage. There was no record of the coolant being changed at that time - but I wouldn't rule it out and I highly doubt it would have been the Toyota Long life coolant. I'm now trying to remember if the coolant in the car looked like the bright pink Toyota Long Life stuff - I'll have to dig out some pics. Sorry, as I say it's a bit inconclusive from me, but I'd probably bet the coolant was changed at some point before I owned the car, but but not to the Toyota Long Life version.

I never had to top that coolant up with water at all. Part of trying to solve the problems with the heater did involve me changing the coolant myself. I didn't use the official Toyota coolant, but it was described as 'long life'. In hindsight now, and with my new T Sport I won't use anything but the official Toyota Long Life coolant,...just not worth the risk of any hassle. That said, after the flush, with the new non Toyota coolant I did have heat.

Just wondering if its worth giving my matrix a good flush now as a preventative measure and / or even changing the long life cooolant if thats the root cause ??

I guess it really can't hurt as long as you're careful with the flush and stick to the Toyota Long Life stuff in my opinion. Not sure if I have missed an update and you've already done this?

[oldcodger]

Not sure if I have missed an update and you've already done this?

Hey Morgie,

Thanks for all that, seems its one of those issues thats difficult to pinpoint a definite cause, but it does sound like long term build up on a narrow matrix, possibly exacerbated by not using the correct coolant / distilled water.

Mine is working ok, but judging by the number of owners with 2002 cars giving problems in just this forum makes me think there must be a load more out there with the same problem.

Think it will be worthwhile giving matrix only a good flush the summer as a preventative measure.

[limecc]

Morgie - I think it is the Toyota coolant at fault for the affected years. Nothing else has been near ours including topping up. A quality brand (like Comma G30 etc) may be better than genuine Toyota fluid therefore.

Old Codger - It's not a flow restriction on a narrow matrix but the insulating effect of scale. A 'preventative' flush is wasting your time. Neither has the matrix design changed.

[Veracity]

Recently I was chatting to my OH's Dad who is a mechanic and he suggested using a product called Holts Radflush to flush out the cooling system and heater matrix.

I've bought myself some and am planning to give it a try, so I will let you know how it goes.

[simple00]

The Amp cured the no heat difficulty, but the proper hand vent for the steering wheel was nonetheless cool, so changed the Matrix as well which sorted it, they stated the Matrix was failing internally and therefore causing cool spots.vehicle cameras.

I known as up some nearby garages yesterday. One with an electronic reader reluctantly suggested that I'd need to take the vehicle to Toyota as the reader he has is limited and cannot do points like the air con and heater.

[Simon Williams_42232]

Brought myself a Celica VVTL-I (2000 model and Jap import) yesterday, LOVE IT!! But I am having this same problem, mostly cold air coming through... due to being the cars 3rd UK owner im not sure what coolant has gone in or if its mixed with water... So thinking of doing this flush following Morgies steps, when I have a bit of time, followed by a full change of coolant.

Any tips/steps on doing a coolant change?? And any recommendations of what coolant to use after?

Thanks in advance :)

[lcd]

Hi all,

Just wanted to THANK YOU morgie for your explanations about how to backflush the heater core, I followed your steps today and I'm having heat again. I didn't have any heat on passenger side since about 2 years so it's a big change. My wife told me that I had to find a solution this time or I would have to sell the TSport so I had no choice !!

What I did is only backflush, flush, back flush, reflush etc a few times with cold water and it was enough to make the heater work again. The first bucket was all black and has some pieces in it so I suppose it was what was causing the trouble.

Here are some pics of the operation, if i can help!

Thanks again !!

[morgie]

Hi guys, good to see some updates here - it's that time of year again where I imagine this thread will get some, ummmm....'heat'?

Hey Morgie, Thanks for all that... judging by the number of owners with 2002 cars giving problems in just this forum makes me think there must be a load more out there with the same problem. Think it will be worthwhile giving matrix only a good flush the summer as a preventative measure.

Yup - certainly plenty of owners out there that have encountered some issues here...and more to come I expect. I know there was some disagreement, but I wouldn't have through a preventative flush would hurt.

Morgie - I think it is the Toyota coolant at fault for the affected years. Nothing else has been near ours..

Thanks - that's quite interesting, I couldn't be sure of the collant in my old T Sport as I hadn't owned it from new. I wonder if anyone knows what they changed. Wouldn't this of impacted all Toyotas of the same era in this case - not sure I've heard of other examples, but not something I'd looked into.

Just wanted to THANK YOU morgie for your explanations about how to backflush the heater core, I followed your steps today and I'm having heat again. I didn't have any heat on passenger side since about 2 years so it's a big change. My wife told me that I had to find a solution this time or I would have to sell the TSport so I had no choice !!

lcd - that's great. Really glad to hear it's helped another owner! Sounds like a close one there - sure the wife is glad you get to keep it! Enjoy the heat!

If anyone else is joining this thread a little late and looking for the steps that I took and others have referenced - it's here.

[lcd]

Thanks for your reply! BTW mine is also a 2002 (one of the first TSport) so there seems to be a real problem with the heater core on those models. I wonder if they changed anything in the more recent models or if they are just not old enough to be concerned.

Do you know how much coolant the heater core contents ? I'm surprised that after the flush I didn't had to add coolant to the system (level is still OK after a 10km ride) though I lost coolant when I unplugged the heater core and flushed it obvioulsy. I will do a full flush of the coolant system in the next few days anyway.

[S555MRJ]

Thanks for your reply! BTW mine is also a 2002 (one of the first TSport) so there seems to be a real problem with the heater core on those models. I wonder if they changed anything in the more recent models or if they are just not old enough to be concerned.

Do you know how much coolant the heater core contents ? I'm surprised that after the flush I didn't had to add coolant to the system (level is still OK after a 10km ride) though I lost coolant when I unplugged the heater core and flushed it obvioulsy. I will do a full flush of the coolant system in the next few days anyway.

Hi Lcd,

Glad the flush worked for you. I myself tried this, this weekend, and it has improved the heating a lot. Its not perfect but its much better.

On a side note, where did you get your front upper strut brace from?

Thanks.

[lcd]

Glad your heater now works better ! you could try to invert the two hoses for better results - i plugged the inlet into the outlet and vice versa and just like I had read on a french forum, it also improves heating a lot and it's easy to do. On my TSport I would say the heater works just like in its first days even though I had almost lost heating completely before the flush.

I bought the strut brace a few years ago from a friend - all I can say is that it's a OMP, I know he bought it on the net but I don't have any more details unfortunately...

[S555MRJ]

Glad your heater now works better ! you could try to invert the two hoses for better results - i plugged the inlet into the outlet and vice versa and just like I had read on a french forum, it also improves heating a lot and it's easy to do. On my TSport I would say the heater works just like in its first days even though I had almost lost heating completely before the flush.

I bought the strut brace a few years ago from a friend - all I can say is that it's a OMP, I know he bought it on the net but I don't have any more details unfortunately...

Hi lcd,

cheers for that.

When you say invert the hoses, do you mean let the car run with the pipes the other way around? i.e. inlet becomes outlet and outlet becomes inlet? and keep the hoses that way and it shall improve the heating?

Cheers

[lcd]

Correct that's exactly what I did and the car has been running like this for two weeks now. On the forum I mentionned people usually simply invert the hoses and it resolves the heat problem but I prefered to do a backflush of the heater before to collect all the garbage coming off the heater in my bucket instead of pushing it into the cooling system !