Auris 2.0 T3 D-4d

[Johan007]

Hi all my first post.

I have had the car for over a week now and it seems very refined and love the handling and stiffness round the bends. I can live the dangerous hand break that only seems to work when you awkwardly pull it all the way up (not good for hill starts). It also seems very wide! Lots of power on the motor way.

I am finding the power of the car random especially at low speeds. I have learn't that third gear is my friend but it actually feels like it has lost a lot of power since I filled up at the pump for the first time so I don't quite feel as one with the car (yes I did put Diesel in the engine). I am also wondering if it is the thick rubber mat I just put in that is restricts the accelerators peddle from hitting the floor.

I do not know if the car needs more time to warm up, how long should it take?

[mbrennan29]

Are you familiar with driving diesel cars or is this your first one?

Diesels are a totally different beast from petrol and have boat loads of torque which is where the pulling power comes from. If you aren't familiar with it you will get used to it fairly quickly and learn how to get the most out of it the more you drive it. I drive diesels at work and when i first started i found it really weird and stalled a lot, now my petrol auris feels inferior and i wish i had gotten the diesel.

[Johan007]

Are you familiar with driving diesel cars or is this your first one?

This is my first one.

Another question:

Did they upgrade the engine on 2.0. I hear figures of 130ps and 126ps on the Toyota website! and parkers say 125bhp and reviews say 130bhp. How do I know what one I have?

[OldSkoO1]

I am finding the power of the car random especially at low speeds. I have learn't that third gear is my friend but it actually feels like it has lost a lot of power since I filled up at the pump for the first time so I don't quite feel as one with the car (yes I did put Diesel in the engine). I am also wondering if it is the thick rubber mat I just put in that is restricts the accelerators peddle from hitting the floor.

I do not know if the car needs more time to warm up, how long should it take?

Engine is driven by a turbo so first you need enough air to produce the torque and power. You have to make sure that at least 1.8krpm or ideally 2krpm is showing before you request instant power.

The turbo needs to spool up fast enough to push enough air into the engine fuel mixture to produce the power.

Under this RPM or over 3.8krpm you will loose power; inbetween you should have no problems. If you do then you need to take it into the garage.

Another thing is- if you are new to diesels you have to get used to putting your foot down with 2k on the rev counter. You get max shove (torque) here which then accelerates up to full power. If you try to accelerate with over 3k on the rev counter you will run out of power very quickly and the shove is also a lot less so... unless you are on a v.steep hill, change up so you get about 2 / 2.2k rpm in 4th and accelerate from there.

Put simply, once you learn how to use the torque effectively your car will become very quick again. Max torque is generated between 1.8k and 2.4krpm in my T180 - your 2.0d will probably be similar.

[Johan007]

...over 3.8krpm you will loose power; in between you should have no problems. If you do then you need to take it into the garage.

So you would shift before 4k on gear changes when putting the foot down. I will have a nice drive on Sunday to stretch its legs because traffic from work to back home is terribly slow. The T180 has allot more bhp from the extra 0.2 liter!

[DominicPriestley]

...over 3.8krpm you will loose power; in between you should have no problems. If you do then you need to take it into the garage.

So you would shift before 4k on gear changes when putting the foot down. I will have a nice drive on Sunday to stretch its legs because traffic from work to back home is terribly slow. The T180 has allot more bhp from the extra 0.2 liter!

Is the car brand new? If so, you want to take it steady for a while yet. The engine will free up over the first few thousand miles and should be noticably quicker. I had a Diesel and then went back to petrol and have now had my T180 2 weeks. It has taken a while to get used to the Diesel drive again, but now I have got used to it, the car is quick. Its knowing when to change and at what revs you have max torque. Your driving style will adapt in the coming weeks.Also, let the car get fully warm before booting it.

[OldSkoO1]

yes very important to let the car warm up before hard acceleration or going above about 3k rpm - also let the car cool down if your been above 30mph - 20secs will do, 1minute if you have been on the m-way.

Also yes- if it is a new car you need to vary the revs and not thrash it for the first 600 miles minimum. I would keep under 3krpm (varied) for the first 600 miles then vary the revs creeping upwards after that all the way to 1.5k miles. After 1k miles take it up to max power, 4.2k rpm once or twice a week. When you have done 500 miles of going up to max power once or twice a week your engine should be well cared for and correctly driven and you should have limited the potential of engine problems or excessive oil consumption.

Having said that - there is no mention of such care in the handbook or by toyota apart from take it easy and dont redline for first 650miles. What i wrote above is just optional but i choose to do it.

Anyway, i looked in the book and the 2.0d achieves max power at 3.6k rpm and you should have defiantly changed by 4.2krpm absolute max (not because you'll damage your engine but because the power nose dives after that). After 3.6krpm your BHP starts to decrease but its still useful to use especial uphills.

Max torque is actually quite good in the range. Anywhere from 1.8k to 2.6k rpm - with a big fall off after 2.6k so you will give noticeably less pulling power after this. Overtaking with 2.6k+ on the rev needle wont feel right. Change up, get it around 2k and go.

Thats a diesel for you. Its a the polar opposite of a screaming VVTI petrol variant. You need at least 4.5k rpm on the rev counter to get some power and overtake. You need the high ranges. With the diesel you need to very low ranges. Keeping it in gear too long will just kill progress. Learn to change and accelerate from down low and the gears will still be long - you just set off sooner.

[DominicPriestley]

Good point about cooling down. I usualy leave it at idle for about 30 seconds before switching off.

[Johan007]

Thanks for the driving tips they have helped lots.

So what is the difference between bhp and torque? Does torque mean more pulling power under greater weight but generally bhp is quicker? The Golf GTi's and Civic Type-R's all have less torque than the 2.0 and half that of the T180 but obviously not as quick unless I suppose we was going up hill with loads of passengers or pulling something.

[mbrennan29]

Thanks for the driving tips they have helped lots.

So what is the difference between bhp and torque? Does torque mean more pulling power under greater weight but generally bhp is quicker? The Golf GTi's and Civic Type-R's all have less torque than the 2.0 and half that of the T180 but obviously not as quick unless I suppose we was going up hill with loads of passengers or pulling something.

Torque is raw pulling power. As you have just said yourself if your going uphill with car full of passengers a diesel will make small work of the hill due to the massive amounts of torque they have. A petrol engine would struggle.

My cousin has a Civic Type-r, he said the T180 is much much quicker once on the move. From a standing start it doesnt stand a chance, but put them both on a road doing 30mph and both floor it, watch the T180 dissappear into the distance. Petrol engines needs revving HARD to get the power from them Diesels dont, you dont even have to change gear most of the time, it's instant power once you know how to use it.

[Johan007]

Excellent! The plan was that the wife was going to buy this car from me cos my old car is toast, but I think I am going keep it for myself.

[DominicPriestley]

sell it to her and get yourself a T180!

[Jock Fran]

Looking at engine torque is pointless to be honest.

It's the torque at the wheels that matters, more torque at the engine doesn't necessarily mean more torque at the wheels, because you have a gearbox in between which multiplies the torque up. 200lb-ft of torque at the driving wheels would actually do nothing at all in terms of acceleration.

A T180 being quicker than a Type R is amusing though, if both cars are in the best gear, the Type R will always be a much quicker car. If, however, you want to race from 50mph both in 5th gear then the T180 would indeed pull away.

[Johan007]

sell it to her and get yourself a T180!

I get your point but that would be pointless as the cars would be too similar.

A T180 being quicker than a Type R is amusing though, if both cars are in the best gear, the Type R will always be a much quicker.

Oh well that is price I pay for cheaper running costs!

[OldSkoO1]

Dont worry thats why i bought the T180

I've had T-Sport / Compressor and Type-r stock; all very thrilling drives but t180 is just different.

Off the line its not as quick because of the diesel gearing but once moving its not that much slower than a stock type-r and in some cases not slower at all. Also easier to drive as performance is available on tap instead of revving the nuts off it.

So in the real world its pretty much just as quick but the tax, insurance, fuel costs are much much cheaper; also makes superb cruiser and very comfortable drive in comparison to the others. But more so i just fancied a change to a screaming HH but still wanted the speed. Did like the ST but increasing costs etc... No brainer for me really.

[shazzbaa]

Power (HP) = Torque (lb-ft) multiplied by Engine Speed (RPM) divided by 2525 .

I learned that when building engine maps for a racing game .

[beowulf]

I am finding the power of the car random especially at low speeds. I have learn't that third gear is my friend but it actually feels like it has lost a lot of power since I filled up at the pump for the first time so I don't quite feel as one with the car (yes I did put Diesel in the engine). I am also wondering if it is the thick rubber mat I just put in that is restricts the accelerators peddle from hitting the floor.

If you think your D4D 2.0 lacks power you should try my Auris D4D 1.4 (90hp) that cost me almost 24000 euros here in Lisbon (taxes are a total rip-off here). I felt quite disappointed with it in the first days especially since I was thinking about buying the petrol 175hp Peugeot 207 RC instead. :(

I've always driven petrol cars (had my license for 14 years) and yet am still getting used to the D4D's turbo and diesel peculiarities. Sometimes it feels quite vigorous but others I push the pedal and nothing happens... as if the mat is pushing the pedal up. It's probably just a matter of the driver not optimizing the use of the engine. :P

I have realized that the power is available in the 2000-3500 rpm range and outside that things just don't work out so well... it's probably not a problem with the engine but the way I'm used to drive cars (higher the rpms, the better). Most of my friends driving diesels say you get used to it with time and learn how to use them within the optimal rpm range and learn to deal with the lag.

The comments here about letting it warm up before pushing it harder (I always wait until the temp gauge stabilizes in the middle of the scale) and waiting a bit after stopping to keep the turbo lubrified during spindown (especially after 120-160kmph highway drives) are good advice...

[Johan007]

I think the random power came from the engine not be warm enough as I do not think the engine allows you to boot it until it reaches a certain temperature. I have got used to it now!

[Jock Fran]

Power (HP) = Torque (lb-ft) multiplied by Engine Speed (RPM) divided by 2525 .

I learned that when building engine maps for a racing game .

It's 5252 actually.

[shazzbaa]

Power (HP) = Torque (lb-ft) multiplied by Engine Speed (RPM) divided by 2525 .

I learned that when building engine maps for a racing game .

It's 5252 actually.

Congratulations , you past the test !

pwned would be the correct term I believe ( ) I blame beer :D

[mpotter]

I think the random power came from the engine not be warm enough as I do not think the engine allows you to boot it until it reaches a certain temperature. I have got used to it now!

I thought the same thing as have same issue but mine does it well after warmed up so not too sure anymore!

9/10 times drive amazing though so just putting up with it!

Does anyone know if the engine is restricted until upto temp? Maybe this resriction is working overtime on mine!?

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=75166

[mpotter]

I think the random power came from the engine not be warm enough as I do not think the engine allows you to boot it until it reaches a certain temperature. I have got used to it now!

After reading above I assumed you had sorted it by waiting for it to warm up / or were just not used to getting the revs right but your below comments on points 2 and 3 are pretty much same problem as I am having. Sometimes when I overtake the power does kick in but then it goes again creating stuttered power if you know what I mean...so frustrating!

- Random power when accelerating hard but my car seems to be an isolated case as no-one else has reported same problem so I’m just hoping I’ve put a dodgy batch of fuel in / got water in system or something.

I mentioned this on quite a few occasions and even had a post dedicated to random power. I had put it down to lack of diesel engine experience at the time. I do not yet have the confidence to overtake and the surge in power seems to always come in too late. To me the car has 3 stages of acceleration.

1. Very slow from a standing start and my Rover 214 is far nippier. Not good as I love to pop into a roundabout or out of a junction quickly (Not fast just quickly as I never take the car over 30 in a 30).

2. When you try and overtake the Torque kicks in and you start to overtake but something is still wrong as you know it can be much more powerful.

3. When Turbo really starts to kick in the car flys but it is often too late by then.

I have owned diesels in past (both common rail and Pumpe-Düse engines) and I have never experienced this problem until now so definitely not right!

What fuel are you using by the way?

[Johan007]

What fuel are you using by the way?

Tesco and Sainsbury (loyalty points ). I don't seem to like Tesco but it could be pseudo effect. I will try the premium Total next time.

Basically I find if you change gear too early something is wrong, change gear too late somewhere around 3500 / 4500 revs you loose something (at a guess torque or enough turbo air for the revs).

I think our gear changes need to be very accurate inside the torque/turbo range, more so than the T180 because we only have 126bhp and theoretically a slower to re-act terbo. But the 2.0 D-4D is a quick car.

[mpotter]

What fuel are you using by the way?

Tesco and Sainsbury (loyalty points ). I don't seem to like Tesco but it could be pseudo effect. I will try the premium Total next time.

Basically I find if you change gear too early something is wrong, change gear too late somewhere around 3500 / 4500 revs you loose something (at a guess torque or enough turbo air for the revs).

I think our gear changes need to be very accurate inside the torque/turbo range, more so than the T180 because we only have 126bhp and theoretically a slower to re-act turbo. But the 2.0 D-4D is a quick car.

You are right in that the revs have to be correct but between 2k and 3.6k we should not have a problem. It also doesn't explain why the power stutters in mine. Ie. put foot down at say 2000 rmp and within a moment torque is there and car is accelerating nicely but by say 2400rpm for example the power might disappears for a split second and comes back at around say 2900rpm. Sometimes this power loss happens for a greater amount of the rev range than others. Sometimes it just doesn't seem to pull away very well for whole rev range and other times it works fine with no problem at all. http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=75166

As for using Tesco and Sainsbury fuel (for loyalty points), snap, I use the same stuff. One of my theories is that it's the fuel at Tesco’s responsible as I don't remember having problem before I filled up there. I have also read somewhere on this Forum that Tesco’s blend their diesel with upto 5% Biodiesel which Toyota have told me not to use in the D-4D. I have also googled this matter and discovered Tesco do this but apparently only in the South East. It could also have just been a bad batch of fuel and if this is the case the lower grade stuff will sit at the bottom of the tank. I'm going to try and run my Tank right down and put another brand in to see if helps. Thing is the fuel gauge and trip computer are so unreliable. Yesterday my low fuel warning came on and range computer said 33miles left. In an attempt to run it down I did another 45 miles b4 filling up (so trip computer had been on zero range left for over 10miles) When I filled up I could only put 46 litres in the tank (55 litre capacity) meaning I still had nearly 2 gallons of diesel left in the tank. I have had one stutter of power this morning on way to work but that could be to do with fact still bad fuel in tank?

[Johan007]

I have had one stutter of power this morning on way to work but that could be to do with fact still bad fuel in tank?

I do not feel any stutters as such. Sounds like a different problem. Thanks for the heads up about Tesco I am sure it is not as good and has less miles per gallon.