Head Gasket

[Strayaway]

Hi, new to the forum but hope someone can advise.

We have a recently purchased 2003 1.4 diesel Yaris D4D with 80,000 miles on the clock. We were very happy with it until it developed problems with the heater blowing hot and cold and an unexplained loss of coolant.

After lots of diagnostic work, it appears the head gasket may have gone, although there are no other signs.

We are looking at having to replace it and skimming the head........... apparently all very costly and of course totally unexpected.

we now discover however that this model was know to have a weakness for blowing head gaskets.

My questions are........

what is the cause of this weakness?

is skimming the head sufficient?

how can we avoid it happening again?

did Toyota not acknowledge the problem and if so, what are the chances of getting any help from them?

Cheers :o :(

[cmia]

Buy a used engine .. that has had a warranty / mileage warranty

[Strayaway]

That sounds a bit drastic as it has done 80,000 with no problems and came with a full service history

Is that because you reckon that the original model of engine is inherently weak and will keep blowing gaskets?

If so am I looking for a different model of engine that will fit and if so which one and at what kind of cost?

[Strayaway]

Still trying to make sense of the situation we find ourselves in.

We haven't had the work done yet and the car is on stop.

My fear is that when we replace the gasket etc, it may just happen again and I cannot find anyone to tell me what the original weakness was, or how to avoid it occurring again.

Any sensible technical advice out there would be highly appreciated as funds are limited and I need to understand the problem and how best to deal with it

Cheers :(

[Chris81]

Not exactly technical advice but I'd be seriously tempted to part ex it back into the trade. Yeah you'll lose out on the sale but balance it against the cost of repair and then the unknown of whether it will happen again. I doubt you'd get any help from Toyota - to them its just a 5 year old car. Get rid and chance your luck with a different car - probably not a Toyota!

[Starensis]

So how have you come to the conclusion the head gasket has gone??

80,000 miles for this engine is nothing & head gaskets blowing are not common.

Please explain a bit more. Is the coolant being blown out of expansion tank when engine is hot? Is coolant leaking from anywhere? The heater blowing hot/cold is a result of low coolant level.

If it is head gasket, try asking a local mechanic to sort it. My son is a Toyota Tech & has just done head a gasket on a Fiat Punto ( with skim - £40). You will be looking at £200 for starters though plus cost of parts etc. £300 is about the right price to pay. I think a new engine or head is a bit drastic.

[forde]

Go to an independent mechanic and get it sorted, you'll get another 80,000 miles before it happens again, if it happens again.

The symptoms youve described could be a cooling system fault and not nescessarily the head gasket, did they toyota guys just plug it into the computer or did they actually bother to check anything on the car or take and parts off and check them? Did they physically check the head gasket?

Is there water in your oil?

[moonstone mart]

Im sure i replied on here yesterday buts its not here anymore :S

Anyway, ive never heard of a headgasket needing replacement on a diesel Yaris before.

What diagnostic work did you carry out to come to the headgasket being the problem?

Mart.

[Strayaway]

Thanks for all the replies :)

moonstone mart .........."never heard of a head gasket needing replacement on a diesel Yaris before"

apparently it was a problem with the 02 diesels and apparently the head gasket was redesigned to deal with the problem but no one has been able to reassure me that the problem didn't run into 2003 models or later and ours is an 03 model

forde...........it hasn't been to the Toyota garage this time but to my local, apprentice served and very capable mechanic..........he initially thought it was an air lock but that appeared not to be the case

there is no water in the oil and no oil in the water and no 'milky' residue any where either.

Using a pressure tester on the engine shows up nothing either..........also because these engines run so clean emission wise, the stuff you can add to the coolant to show up the presence of hydro carbons in the water (if the head gasket break is between a cylinder and a waterway) doesn't necessarily work and it didn't show up anything in this case either

Starensis..........the coolant is apparently being blown out of the expansion tank............but only under load while on the road it seems, as running it over the pit till hot showed no leaks anywhere, or discharge from the expansion bottle overflow

the initial symptom was the heater running intermittently hot and cold and an unexplained loss of coolant...........no sign of any warning lights at any time though, or any other signs and it continued to run like a little rocket

this morning I ran it up to the garage again for the work to begin tomorrow (12/02/08) and everything ran fine with blue water light going out after a few minutes and the heater kicking in at full blast soon after.

The coolant had gone down though when checking the expansion bottle and when the engine cools right down, I imagine the level would have dropped down to the low mark or even below and it had been on the 'b' mark when I started from cold

the mechanic said he would try removing the thermostat as one final test but if that did not show anything and in the absence of any other signs, there seems to be no other option than to strip it down and see what the gasket looks like

If anyone has any last minute and definitive steps, tests or solutions that we might follow up, that would be great before we run into perhaps unnecessary expense but I am not hopeful at the moment :(

[Benno_uk]

A very few amount of the early Yaris diesels did have head gasket problems. On removing the head it was found that the heads where corroded around the waterways. So no amount of new head gaskets would cure the problem. These few Yaris`s had a new head and modified gaskets fitted under warrenty.

If your garage end up removing the head, make sure that they inspect the head very carfully before just replacing the head gasket.

[petrolhead]

there is a modifieb head gasket to stop this fault but also may have warped block will need flat testing

[Strayaway]

Thanks for replies.............head was due off today but haven't heard the result............thermostat and water pump were fine though

[Strayaway]

Turns out it was the head gasket and not looking forward to the bill :(

Still not sure how it occurred ........there was no corrosion around the water ways................will install an independent temperature gauge at the same time, as I gather the on-board water temp warning light fails to operate when there is an airlock in the system, for whatever reason and that is just what you don't need!!

[Benno_uk]

there is a modifieb head gasket to stop this fault but also may have warped block will need flat testing

Err its not very often the block warps....the head maybe, but not the block!

Good idea to fit a temp gauge. I hate the stupid blue and red lights too.

[lickthespoon]

I have the same issue

As I understand it they extended the warranty to 5 years for this issue.

If the date of your Yaris is later in the year you should be able to get a free repair if you're quick.

I'm not so lucky and am persuing other methods...

[gar]

I have the same issue

As I understand it they extended the warranty to 5 years for this issue.

If the date of your Yaris is later in the year you should be able to get a free repair if you're quick.

I'm not so lucky and am persuing other methods...

I have been told in past experiences, it is always worth paying to have the head skimmed, when having a new gasket fitted due to failiure. Any new failiure will be down to the work carried out by the repairer and they cant get out of it by saying you should have has it skimmed first.

[Phatman]

I've replaced head gaskets before and it's pretty easy to check for head distortion with a straight edge and feeler guages, if it hasn't over heated you should be ok. You do have to be quite meticulous in cleaning the surfaces and making sure there's no dirt or water down the bolt holes, and of course stick to the torquing sequence. If it's all within spec I would go ahead and have the modified head gasket fitted.

I have the same issue

As I understand it they extended the warranty to 5 years for this issue.

If the date of your Yaris is later in the year you should be able to get a free repair if you're quick.

I'm not so lucky and am persuing other methods...

I have been told in past experiences, it is always worth paying to have the head skimmed, when having a new gasket fitted due to failiure. Any new failiure will be down to the work carried out by the repairer and they cant get out of it by saying you should have has it skimmed first.