Carina E Misfiring

[Thistle Willow]

Hi, I need to explain what happens carefully. This problem has only surfaced relatively recently, but could have symptoms that have existed for much longer.

Car information:

Carina E 1.8i Auto. 1996 (N) with 126,000 miles. 7AFE - Ultra lean burn engine.

The problem:

The engine starts from stone cold (always) and runs sweetly as the fuel enrinchment raises the revs slightly. For the first few miles, or until the temperature guage reaches normal temperature, the engine runs perfectly. Then at or close to this point, I get the first of a series of misfiring episodes. Initially the misfire is erratic, one minute 3 cylinders, then back to 4, then 3 and so on... This will last for about a minute, then all is well again. The engine will continue to run smoothly for about another 5 minutes until I lose a cylinder again. This time the misfire will not correct, no matter how I try to rev through it. This misfire will last for about 5-10 minutes, and then it will correct again.

Once into the cycle, the misfire will come and go for 5-10 minute periods. What I have noticed too, is that after the engine is fully hot, the smoothness when it is not misfiring is not as good as when I first start out. If I am in a cruise at say 50MPH, then I just sit with a feather on the accelerator to maintain. What happens when doing this is that the power seems to stutter (not misfire), so you feel a jerking through the transmission. This has been happening for months, before the misfire.

My observations:

1. I have changes the spark plugs (Champion EON 2) as they were a bit worn - No effect.

2. I have checked and cleaned the distributor cap and rotor arm - No effect.

3. I have noticed that when the engine misfires, and I remove an HT lead from the offending cylinder (No.1) I get a healthy looking spark on to one of the rocker cover domes nuts, but when I did this one night, I could see 8 or 9 sparks jumping from the entire length of the long tubular plastic extension piece that goes down the deep wells to the plugs. I don't know if this is significant, it could be due to the high energy having nowhere to go whan disconnected.

4. I have removed the power supply plugs off of the injectors until I found one that made no difference to the misfire (Cylinder No.2). The moment I pushed it back on, the misfire cleared. I have never been able to repeat this, so it may have been a coincidence.

5. I was advised to run a fuel cleaner through (Forte Treatment) which seemed to make a difference the day after I added it, but subsequently, exactly the same as before.

I would very much like anyone's suggestions and thoughts on what this could be. I have had people saying HT leads to me, and people saying injectors, but a chat with a Toyota technician recently confused me more by saying that the injectors aren't likely to be the problem. He reckons it is my coil packs on the HT leads (never heard of them!!). The only thread of a clue is that it never happens from complete cold start, so it does sound like fuel rather than spark?

I'm getting fairly desperate here, as this is driving me crazy. I don't have huge amounts of money to throw at this, so I don't want to spend a load, only to find it hasn't cured the problem.

Cheers.

[donnyvfr]

Hi, I need to explain what happens carefully. This problem has only surfaced relatively recently, but could have symptoms that have existed for much longer.

Car information:

Carina E 1.8i Auto. 1996 (N) with 126,000 miles. 7AFE - Ultra lean burn engine.

The problem:

The engine starts from stone cold (always) and runs sweetly as the fuel enrinchment raises the revs slightly. For the first few miles, or until the temperature guage reaches normal temperature, the engine runs perfectly. Then at or close to this point, I get the first of a series of misfiring episodes. Initially the misfire is erratic, one minute 3 cylinders, then back to 4, then 3 and so on... This will last for about a minute, then all is well again. The engine will continue to run smoothly for about another 5 minutes until I lose a cylinder again. This time the misfire will not correct, no matter how I try to rev through it. This misfire will last for about 5-10 minutes, and then it will correct again.

Once into the cycle, the misfire will come and go for 5-10 minute periods. What I have noticed too, is that after the engine is fully hot, the smoothness when it is not misfiring is not as good as when I first start out. If I am in a cruise at say 50MPH, then I just sit with a feather on the accelerator to maintain. What happens when doing this is that the power seems to stutter (not misfire), so you feel a jerking through the transmission. This has been happening for months, before the misfire.

My observations:

1. I have changes the spark plugs (Champion EON 2) as they were a bit worn - No effect.

2. I have checked and cleaned the distributor cap and rotor arm - No effect.

3. I have noticed that when the engine misfires, and I remove an HT lead from the offending cylinder (No.1) I get a healthy looking spark on to one of the rocker cover domes nuts, but when I did this one night, I could see 8 or 9 sparks jumping from the entire length of the long tubular plastic extension piece that goes down the deep wells to the plugs. I don't know if this is significant, it could be due to the high energy having nowhere to go whan disconnected.

4. I have removed the power supply plugs off of the injectors until I found one that made no difference to the misfire (Cylinder No.2). The moment I pushed it back on, the misfire cleared. I have never been able to repeat this, so it may have been a coincidence.

5. I was advised to run a fuel cleaner through (Forte Treatment) which seemed to make a difference the day after I added it, but subsequently, exactly the same as before.

I would very much like anyone's suggestions and thoughts on what this could be. I have had people saying HT leads to me, and people saying injectors, but a chat with a Toyota technician recently confused me more by saying that the injectors aren't likely to be the problem. He reckons it is my coil packs on the HT leads (never heard of them!!). The only thread of a clue is that it never happens from complete cold start, so it does sound like fuel rather than spark?

I'm getting fairly desperate here, as this is driving me crazy. I don't have huge amounts of money to throw at this, so I don't want to spend a load, only to find it hasn't cured the problem.

Cheers.

[donnyvfr]

to me that sounds like the ht leads are breaking down, i had to have one new lead on my car (same car) and all is fine, you could try changing the leads over and see if this problem sorts itself out on that cykinder and manifests itself on the cylinder that you put it on then you will know for sure. I have read many people having this problem with the ht leads

[Thistle Willow]

to me that sounds like the ht leads are breaking down, i had to have one new lead on my car (same car) and all is fine, you could try changing the leads over and see if this problem sorts itself out on that cykinder and manifests itself on the cylinder that you put it on then you will know for sure. I have read many people having this problem with the ht leads

Thanks for the response. What is really odd is the fact that they only break down in 5-10 minute periods when they're hot. Do you think that original leads are best, or would some of these "performance" ones be better?

[pureum]

For me it seems that it is a time to find and replace failed injector.

You might many related post by the keyword of "injector" or "blue injector"

[Thistle Willow]

For me it seems that it is a time to find and replace failed injector.

You might many related post by the keyword of "injector" or "blue injector"

Well it wasn't the HT leads!! Didn't reall think it would be somehow. How much are brand new injectors for these, does anyone know, or is it a mortgage job?

[carina-ladyowner]

For me it seems that it is a time to find and replace failed injector.

You might many related post by the keyword of "injector" or "blue injector"

Well it wasn't the HT leads!! Didn't reall think it would be somehow. How much are brand new injectors for these, does anyone know, or is it a mortgage job?

late posting here. did u get ur new injectors?

i had this prob couple of years ago and found out thru this site that it was the injectors. i do know that u have to get the correct colour injectors.

at that time they were like gold dust and on back order from abroad. new ones were over £100. i went to a scrap yard and had to buy a set of four.

i still have a blue one if u need one.

[Josh_]

I had the same problem recently - sourced an injector from a breaker through www.247spares.co.uk for 30 quid including next-day delivery. Car's running fine since, mainly thanks to this forum :)

[aledjones_lex@hotmail.com]

this is exactly the same as my problem mine has had new injectors but not entirely sure if they right ones they are blue on a 1996 1.6 manuel gs any help

[already_1uk]

for reference aledjones_lex is driving my old carina

I only changed 1 injector on that car, it didnt cure it, i swapped the injectors over and the misfire stayed on the same cylinder, this implies to me that the injectors are not at fault in this instance, and the fact at all the injectors are the same colour means i didnt fit the wrong one does it?

[Nancy16]

Hi, I need to explain what happens carefully. This problem has only surfaced relatively recently, but could have symptoms that have existed for much longer.

Car information:

Carina E 1.8i Auto. 1996 (N) with 126,000 miles. 7AFE - Ultra lean burn engine.

The problem:

The engine starts from stone cold (always) and runs sweetly as the fuel enrinchment raises the revs slightly. For the first few miles, or until the temperature guage reaches normal temperature, the engine runs perfectly. Then at or close to this point, I get the first of a series of misfiring episodes. Initially the misfire is erratic, one minute 3 cylinders, then back to 4, then 3 and so on... This will last for about a minute, then all is well again. The engine will continue to run smoothly for about another 5 minutes until I lose a cylinder again. This time the misfire will not correct, no matter how I try to rev through it. This misfire will last for about 5-10 minutes, and then it will correct again.

Once into the cycle, the misfire will come and go for 5-10 minute periods. What I have noticed too, is that after the engine is fully hot, the smoothness when it is not misfiring is not as good as when I first start out. If I am in a cruise at say 50MPH, then I just sit with a feather on the accelerator to maintain. What happens when doing this is that the power seems to stutter (not misfire), so you feel a jerking through the transmission. This has been happening for months, before the misfire.

My observations:

1. I have changes the spark plugs (Champion EON 2) as they were a bit worn - No effect.

2. I have checked and cleaned the distributor cap and rotor arm - No effect.

3. I have noticed that when the engine misfires, and I remove an HT lead from the offending cylinder (No.1) I get a healthy looking spark on to one of the rocker cover domes nuts, but when I did this one night, I could see 8 or 9 sparks jumping from the entire length of the long tubular plastic extension piece that goes down the deep wells to the plugs. I don't know if this is significant, it could be due to the high energy having nowhere to go whan disconnected.

4. I have removed the power supply plugs off of the injectors until I found one that made no difference to the misfire (Cylinder No.2). The moment I pushed it back on, the misfire cleared. I have never been able to repeat this, so it may have been a coincidence.

5. I was advised to run a fuel cleaner through (Forte Treatment) which seemed to make a difference the day after I added it, but subsequently, exactly the same as before.

I would very much like anyone's suggestions and thoughts on what this could be. I have had people saying HT leads to me, and people saying injectors, but a chat with a Toyota technician recently confused me more by saying that the injectors aren't likely to be the problem. He reckons it is my coil packs on the HT leads (never heard of them!!). The only thread of a clue is that it never happens from complete cold start, so it does sound like fuel rather than spark?

I'm getting fairly desperate here, as this is driving me crazy. I don't have huge amounts of money to throw at this, so I don't want to spend a load, only to find it hasn't cured the problem.

Cheers.

I have the same car and according to the mechanic, the same problem. He's fitting a new distributor cap tomorrow, more a process of elimination than a cure.

Would misfire cause the car to judder quite violently? That is what mine is doing but you've not mentioned it.

Nancy

[trev3635]

Yes a misfire would make the car judder, i however have never had to change HT leads on a toyota.

fuel pressure regulator, cold start valve, fuel pump etc........should be all be checked first

B)

[topman50]

Hi, I need to explain what happens carefully. This problem has only surfaced relatively recently, but could have symptoms that have existed for much longer.

Car information:

Carina E 1.8i Auto. 1996 (N) with 126,000 miles. 7AFE - Ultra lean burn engine.

The problem:

The engine starts from stone cold (always) and runs sweetly as the fuel enrinchment raises the revs slightly. For the first few miles, or until the temperature guage reaches normal temperature, the engine runs perfectly. Then at or close to this point, I get the first of a series of misfiring episodes. Initially the misfire is erratic, one minute 3 cylinders, then back to 4, then 3 and so on... This will last for about a minute, then all is well again. The engine will continue to run smoothly for about another 5 minutes until I lose a cylinder again. This time the misfire will not correct, no matter how I try to rev through it. This misfire will last for about 5-10 minutes, and then it will correct again.

Once into the cycle, the misfire will come and go for 5-10 minute periods. What I have noticed too, is that after the engine is fully hot, the smoothness when it is not misfiring is not as good as when I first start out. If I am in a cruise at say 50MPH, then I just sit with a feather on the accelerator to maintain. What happens when doing this is that the power seems to stutter (not misfire), so you feel a jerking through the transmission. This has been happening for months, before the misfire.

My observations:

1. I have changes the spark plugs (Champion EON 2) as they were a bit worn - No effect.

2. I have checked and cleaned the distributor cap and rotor arm - No effect.

3. I have noticed that when the engine misfires, and I remove an HT lead from the offending cylinder (No.1) I get a healthy looking spark on to one of the rocker cover domes nuts, but when I did this one night, I could see 8 or 9 sparks jumping from the entire length of the long tubular plastic extension piece that goes down the deep wells to the plugs. I don't know if this is significant, it could be due to the high energy having nowhere to go whan disconnected.

4. I have removed the power supply plugs off of the injectors until I found one that made no difference to the misfire (Cylinder No.2). The moment I pushed it back on, the misfire cleared. I have never been able to repeat this, so it may have been a coincidence.

5. I was advised to run a fuel cleaner through (Forte Treatment) which seemed to make a difference the day after I added it, but subsequently, exactly the same as before.

I would very much like anyone's suggestions and thoughts on what this could be. I have had people saying HT leads to me, and people saying injectors, but a chat with a Toyota technician recently confused me more by saying that the injectors aren't likely to be the problem. He reckons it is my coil packs on the HT leads (never heard of them!!). The only thread of a clue is that it never happens from complete cold start, so it does sound like fuel rather than spark?

I'm getting fairly desperate here, as this is driving me crazy. I don't have huge amounts of money to throw at this, so I don't want to spend a load, only to find it hasn't cured the problem.

Cheers.

Dont know if it will help but I have had this prob twice both times it has been the injector, first No. 2 then No. 4 . Toyota injectors over £100 I found a local factor were I got 0ne for £68 pounds.

[TM19]

On 19/02/2008 at 1:34 PM, Thistle Willow said:

Well it wasn't the HT leads!! Didn't reall think it would be somehow. How much are brand new injectors for these, does anyone know, or is it a mortgage job?

Hi Thistle Willow,

Wondering if you ever got to the bottom of the problem?

I'm  also having the same issue with my Carina E 1997 1.6 Lean burn.

Only ever happened periodically 45mins into a journey but now happening a lot more and sooner.

just noticed that the economy light does not come on at all and wondering if there is any link between the two.

[tooSavvy]

........ I know old toyyos never die BUT that didn't apply to owners!

FraggFodder likely..... 

 

2sav