Engine Management Ligh Problem Still

[PinkMinkee]

aint got around to get OBD11 yet, but we still appear to have the same problem with the car slippin into creep home mode from time to time.

it is random, does it at any time in any gear and with the engine being hot or cold, up hills or on a flat, and its doesnt matter how much petrol is in the tank

happens when revs are between 2800 and 3200. car appears to start losing power and small jerks like kangarooing. eml comes on and we have to pull over, switch off engine, wait a few secs, switch back on then its fine.

we dont have any other problems, but it happened yesterday when we were in the outside lane of the m4, going up a slight incline, car was at temp, 5th gear doing 80mph!! lucky we didnt have any problems getting over to hard shoulder, any suggestions so i can go armed and dangerous to toyota once i have purchased the OBD11

cheers folkies :)

[petrolhead]

sound like turbo over boost to me you need to get the codes read or we are all guessing

[bothwell_buyer]

aint got around to get OBD11 yet, but we still appear to have the same problem with the car slippin into creep home mode from time to time.

it is random, does it at any time in any gear and with the engine being hot or cold, up hills or on a flat, and its doesnt matter how much petrol is in the tank

happens when revs are between 2800 and 3200. car appears to start losing power and small jerks like kangarooing. eml comes on and we have to pull over, switch off engine, wait a few secs, switch back on then its fine.

we dont have any other problems, but it happened yesterday when we were in the outside lane of the m4, going up a slight incline, car was at temp, 5th gear doing 80mph!! lucky we didnt have any problems getting over to hard shoulder, any suggestions so i can go armed and dangerous to toyota once i have purchased the OBD11

cheers folkies :)

change the engine to a 3SGTE and turn the boost up a touch an ye'll never look back cos nothin'll catch ye!!!!!

As you'll see, I've done 1 and my 2nd RAV went into The Garage yesterday to have the same conversion. I picked up the 1st RAV after the new windscreen was fitted and tried out the windscreen by taking the car up to 7000rpm in 4th n slipping it into 5th. Didn't lose power - just the rear offside lightguard!!

[anchorman]

Pull your finger out Pinky

You should have some warranty rights at the moment but you will be on your own if you don't go back ASAP (or did you buy it private?).

Listen to petrolhead. We cannot offer advice without those codes.

Bothy

Bits fall off the space shuttle and it still keeps going.

You don't even have to spacewalk to fix it.

[bothwell_buyer]

Pull your finger out Pinky

You should have some warranty rights at the moment but you will be on your own if you don't go back ASAP (or did you buy it private?).

Listen to petrolhead. We cannot offer advice without those codes.

Bothy

Bits fall off the space shuttle and it still keeps going.

You don't even have to spacewalk to fix it.

Maybe so, but it damn difficult to hold on when the things going 120mph+ !!!

Oh aye - ah can jist see ye clinging oan whilst ye wipe the bird muck aff the front o yer 125mph loco

Pinky - gies us a a break n buy wan o thae code readers...or visit yer local Asda and ask them fur a loan o wan o theirs!

[PinkMinkee]

gotta year warranty, bought from toyota, but sort of got a lot of other (more pressing and important) stuff going on at mo, just hoping the eml aint nowt that is anything serious is all, cant get the OBD11 till end of month ;)

[bothwell_buyer]

gotta year warranty, bought from toyota, but sort of got a lot of other (more pressing and important) stuff going on at mo, just hoping the eml aint nowt that is anything serious is all, cant get the OBD11 till end of month ;)

try getting it on approval??

[PinkMinkee]

how do i do that? :)

[anchorman]

This should be good.

Yeh go on bothy, how does she do that?

[bothwell_buyer]

?teaching chicks to suck eggs???

Ye carefully approach whoever can sell ye the OBdee whatever and smile sweetly, whilst undoing a shirt button - either on him/her/you

Start crying inconsolably and the person will put their arm around you...

with a witness there, shout r*p# as loud as you can then say that you'll say no more if ye can borrow an OBidee til pay day.....

thought everybody did that???

[PinkMinkee]

tell ya what bothy...ya come doon here and try it on our Toyota dealers fer me, n if it works i will personally spend more then 25 squids on a slap up fer ya ;)

[bothwell_buyer]

tell ya what bothy...ya come doon here and try it on our Toyota dealers fer me, n if it works i will personally spend more then 25 squids on a slap up fer ya ;)

Bgr

I've just driven back frae Manchester the day itherwise the petrol doon tae yours wid have bin cheaper.

Tell me the dealers name an I can see whit I can dae.........

[PinkMinkee]

Marsh Toyota Plymouth ;)

[bothwell_buyer]

Marsh Toyota Plymouth ;)

see anchormans just posted under another topic a link for an OBD at £30. A local producer /seller of these things quoted £120!

[PinkMinkee]

righto peeps, got our obd fault reader today and we have the one fault which is a P1251...........all answers on a postcard please to.......

cheers :)

[bothwell_buyer]

righto peeps, got our obd fault reader today and we have the one fault which is a P1251...........all answers on a postcard please to.......

cheers :)

I googled it and came up with a cold start injector fault...

no doubt thats wrong and its something entirely different. Like you wouldn't be suffering from chilblains??? :(

[chatman]

righto peeps, got our obd fault reader today and we have the one fault which is a P1251...........all answers on a postcard please to.......

cheers :)

Have a look HERE looks like low fuel pressure could be the High Pressure pump....

[sywy]

LOL. 2 different replies already. Searched on here (TOC), and it looks like a turbo problem.

Take your pick!!

I'm sure anchorman will be along at some point, to give you the definitive answer.

[PinkMinkee]

just done a search in google and its taken me to a post here which states that its the turbo on its way out........we got a years Toyota Approved Used warranty, so turbo should be covered on that...it better be at least :)

[anchorman]

Pinky

The short answer is , well, hopefully yes, it will be covered by warranty and you should take it back.

The longer answer is some kind of explanation.

The code P1251 is "Turbo overboost condition". It means that the turbocharger is trying to force too much air into the engine. The turbo put simply is an exhaust driven pump that is connected to the air inlet and clean air is pumped into the engine. This increases the combustion pressure and as a result more power is generated. The amount of pressure needs to be controlled or there is a risk that the engine could be damaged so if the pressure sensor detects too much pressure it will limit the amount of power by defaulting to a "limp home" setting. It means it loses power until you re-start it as you describe.

The fault code is a manufacturer specific code so P1251 could mean different things on different vehicles. In this case P is powertrain, 1 is manufacturer specific (0 would be generic - applies to all makes, not just Toyota) and the 2 means it is the fuel injector circuit (fuel or air). The last 2 digits (51) denote the actual fault as encoded by Toyota. In this case it means the turbo pressure is too high.

The turbocharger is amongst the items listed as a possible fault although if the pressure is too high it would indicate there is no problem in the working of it per say but more the control of the amount of boost it is generating. Sorry, this sounds like a ramble!!!

Now to elaborate;

This is a picture of my engine which isn't quite the same but the turbo and associated bits look similar;

The turbos on our RAVs are the variable rate type and is indicated with the blue arrow. Controlling the air inlet there is a vacuum unit and is indicated by the green arrow. This vacuum unit is connected by a link to a set of vanes in the inlet which can open and close a bit like the petals of a flower. When they are closed they restrict the air into the turbo and when they are open they do not. How much air goes through the turbo is mainly dictated by the flow of exhaust (fuel being burned) but it can be even more controlled by these vanes. The next part of this sequence is how the vacuum unit is controlled. The vacuum is created in the inlet to the engine as it sucks air in. How much is applied to the turbo vacuum unit is determined by a valve called the VSV or VRV (means variable rate valve). This is an electrically controlled valve and is controlled by the engine ECU. The ECU monitors inputs from various locations but depending on how much power you want will control the valve accordingly. It is the nearest thing we have to a wastegate but can govern the turbo much more accurately.

So the chain is as follows.

You control how much power you want by pressing the accelerator (the engine needs the correct amount of fuel and air to respond)

The ECU interprets this info and controls the injectors (fuel) and the VSV (air)

The additional fuel generates more exhaust and the turbo pressure is increased but needs to be finely controlled

The ECU finely adjusts how much pressure is generated by finely adjusting the VSV

The VSV now responds and controls the vacuum unit and subsequently the variable rate nozzles.

The variable rate nozzles control the flow of air through the turbo and the correct balance of fuel and air is fed into the engine.

The pressure is monitored by the pressure control valve which sends the status to the ECU

Are you with me so far?

Right, if the turbo is over boosting then it is getting duff info from the ECU, the VSV, the pressure control valve or the vacuum unit. There are ways of checking these items but not really for the DIYer. I can provide more info but your garage should set off in this direction.

You have narrowed the posibilities by a huge amount with your obidee as bothy calls it - a very good investment of your £30!!!

I hope this anchorinfo helps

[bothwell_buyer]

Or, just buy a 3 door petrol RAV and solve the problem!!! :yahoo:

[PinkMinkee]

cor anchorman........you're a star, my OH understood it perfectly as he had a 3.0l twin turbo supra up until last july, which btw bothy, was exceedingly faster than your petrol rav AND 20 million times more reliable than ANY other car we have ever had, so ner ner ne ner ner lol ;)

[bothwell_buyer]

cor anchorman........you're a star, my OH understood it perfectly as he had a 3.0l twin turbo supra up until last july, which btw bothy, was exceedingly faster than your petrol rav AND 20 million times more reliable than ANY other car we have ever had, so ner ner ne ner ner lol ;)

Oh no it wasn't!!

Well maybe - but -

it comes down to power - weight ratio

The Supra is a nice car, but longer and heavier than a 3 door RAV4 which has been stripped of excess weight; using lightweight alloys and lightweight front brakes and discs. With this in mind, and that the RAV has a 2 litre turbo engine with a max output of just short of 700bhp, then it will out-accelerate most.

I admit that top speed is less, but then its set up using the RAVs gearbox for hill climb work and acceleration ...which suits its short wheelbase. Longer wheelbases tend to suit faster top or cruising speed - the Previa was exceptional in that way.

Just you concentrate on yer over-active turbo and get that working properly, and I'll concentrate on getting my LR to the towbar man today - an expedition!!

[PinkMinkee]

i agree power to weight ratio is far more significant........imagine then a 190bhp renault twingo.......our pal is the Service Manager of Renault Swansea (yea is he a very busy person lol) and he's taken the twingo renaultsport out for a spin.......said its a complete scream.......he's a very good amateur rally driver so woulda given it a good thrashing, and having been a passenger when he's been saif thrashing a car, i know for sure if he says it a wicked little car, its a wicked little car ;)

wow what a perfect random change of subject that was ;)

[bothwell_buyer]

i agree power to weight ratio is far more significant........imagine then a 190bhp renault twingo.......our pal is the Service Manager of Renault Swansea (yea is he a very busy person lol) and he's taken the twingo renaultsport out for a spin.......said its a complete scream.......he's a very good amateur rally driver so woulda given it a good thrashing, and having been a passenger when he's been saif thrashing a car, i know for sure if he says it a wicked little car, its a wicked little car ;)

wow what a perfect random change of subject that was ;)

Hmmmm - does he fix Oblo#dyFaults??