Engine Management Ligh Problem Still

[adrian_s]

I'm from the Previa forum and reading this thread with interest. My Previa is in the Toyota dealers at the mo just a few weeks after having the turbo replaced at my cost. The thing is, the problem that they diagnosed as a turbo failure has recurred - limp home mode, power loss. This was first diagnosed as code P0627 by the RAC back last Summer, suggesting a fuel supply problem, or 'dodgy' fuel. It has been happening intermittently since, but I had to get the car fixed for a trip to France. The dealer subsequently turned around to me and quoted code P1251 and said the turbo needed replacing.

I've now got a new turbo but the same problem and a dealer who is refusing to accept liability. I'm taking them to the small claims court unless they back down but still looking for proof of a link between p0627 (Fuel Pump Control Circ A / Open) and p1251. From reading this thread and others it suggests that p1251 can be caused by a number of things, maybe the fuel valve problem indicated by p0627 is one of these things??? I'm a complete novice on this but it suggests to me that lack of fuel might be the reason why there is too much air in the mixture which might cause the p1251 code.

Can anybody help?

[PinkMinkee]

in my book, Mr T diagnosed the fault and the warranty company has approved the work. if these warranty companies dont want to honour their policies they should not issue them. now if it turns out the p1251 code can be a number of things, if they replace a part and it turns out not to be a problem with that, then surely Mr T needs to keep me informed of progress and should it turn out to be a problem NOT covered by the warranty then they should ask ME if i want THEM to carry out the repairs.

As is it i have a toyota warranty and have owned the rav for less than 3 months........so if they carry out ANY repairs not under warranty that are NOT approved by me and then try to bill ME, then they can keep the car and I shall seek legal advice, im no pushover and know EXACTLY who to approach to determine my rights as a consumer :)

good luck with your case adrian :)

[anchorman]

I'm from the Previa forum and reading this thread with interest. My Previa is in the Toyota dealers at the mo just a few weeks after having the turbo replaced at my cost. The thing is, the problem that they diagnosed as a turbo failure has recurred - limp home mode, power loss. This was first diagnosed as code P0627 by the RAC back last Summer, suggesting a fuel supply problem, or 'dodgy' fuel. It has been happening intermittently since, but I had to get the car fixed for a trip to France. The dealer subsequently turned around to me and quoted code P1251 and said the turbo needed replacing.

I've now got a new turbo but the same problem and a dealer who is refusing to accept liability. I'm taking them to the small claims court unless they back down but still looking for proof of a link between p0627 (Fuel Pump Control Circ A / Open) and p1251. From reading this thread and others it suggests that p1251 can be caused by a number of things, maybe the fuel valve problem indicated by p0627 is one of these things??? I'm a complete novice on this but it suggests to me that lack of fuel might be the reason why there is too much air in the mixture which might cause the p1251 code.

Can anybody help?

P0627 and P1251 are not related. P0627 is fuel pressure and P1251 is turbo pressure. I wouldn't really expect that a fault on either system could throw up a code on the other. With a diesel the two are not so closely related although it is true that both are monitored by each other. I can't understand why they changed the turbo the first time as all the diagnostic info is suggesting the fuel pump or SCV valves. The trouble you will have is getting anybody to believe that P1251 wasn't shown as this does indicate turbo pressure problems.

Pinky

I just thought I'd ask. You need to know if these bgrs are talking to each other.

[adrian_s]

Thanks for the reply, shame they are not related. They replaced the turbo as they said they picked up code p1251, not p0627, at which point I asked were they absolutely sure, as that was not what I had been told. In fact, the car was only 3 months out of warranty (and at 43K) when the problem first occurred. If I had been told it was the turbo at the time, I would have taken it up with Toyota.

So I'm still left with a problem that has already cost me £1700 to fix :(

The dealer is now saying that the SCV needs replacing at a cost of £290.

[anchorman]

It will be interesting to see if this cures it because as I said, if I picked up P0627 in the first place I would have gone straight to the SCV valves (and that is what the diagnostic instructions tell them to do). The turbo and associated bill seem unnecessary to me.

[PinkMinkee]

latest chapter in the life and trials of a rav4

replaced cat, still gotta problem, everything is being covered under the warranty so far, and they definately WOULD contact me if anything otherwise.

service guy said that initial problem was probably the turbo and possibly due to the turbo problem, we were being a little heavy on the accelerator pedal and this has caused some knock on effects, summat to do with the valves.......oh i dunno im not a techy, tho me OH seems to think they are fobbing me off as a turbo prob is a turbo prob..it either works or it doesnt work, and that mr T has likely replaced it for no reason. fobbing me off why? so i dont think that mr T doesnt know what they are doing and will not take the car back to them if it goes wrong again.

now the main reason we bought the car from another dealer in the first place, is cos ours are a bunch of numpties, and unfortunately they are now proving us right again.

first examply of numptiness was whne me OH visited them for some auto gearbox oil for his supra and they told him they only sold it in 45 gallon drums. after an argument with the parts manager and my OH suggestion of inputting the parts number HE had on him into THEIR computer, up popped the 5 litre container of gearbox oil he was after all along. What did numpty parts bloke say, "oh didnt know they did that!" pmsl

we woulda took the RAV to the dealer we had bought it from if we had though it woulda got there safely ;)

[anchorman]

Mmm.

Sounds like an element of fobbing to me as well. If not better let Mrs duncs know cos she thinks shes Hamilton when she drives the T180.

So you did all this by driving it hard? Don't think so.

Anyway bostik pockets, why didn't you have the 45 gallon drum of oil and with a bit of imagination - bingo, a flat panel TV stand that won't fall over. The oil will always come in - similar to that Oil of Ulay stuff my wife buys I reckon.

[bothwell_buyer]

I bought a 205 litre drum of diesel the other day - wondered what to do with the barrel!

[anchorman]

I bought a 205 litre drum of diesel the other day - wondered what to do with the barrel!

Not the red stuff with BR arrows on the tin?

[PinkMinkee]

you are all mad, but not as mad (angry) as we are at the moment, having still not got the RAV back yet and no further nearer to knowing what the problem is. Apparently as Mr T have spent to much money trying to get to the bottom of this problem, the warranty company now want to come and inspect the work carried out already before authorising any further repairs.....not a problem we say, thats fair enough!

But we are off to London at the weekend and the Yaris is simply not big enough for us to get 4 adults and a load of luggage in. If we had wanted a tiny car we woulda kept the Brabus as its interior is bigger and theres more boot space!!

Mr T tells me that their fleet of courtesy cars are all Yaris's and there are no sales cars available..........yea right! So I ask them to contact their other branch for a larger vehicle, to which he says he will but its unlikely they will have one!!

Suffice to say my OH is fuming and ready to have a go. Course we are now worried as to what we will do if the warranty company doesnt approve any further work, as we cannot afford to be paying out huge amounts on repairs right at this moment in time :(

[anchorman]

The daft thing is pinky that all of the diagnostic procedure is laid out on the website. It tells them exactly how to procede so why haven't they got to the bottom of it?

My guess is that they have done what their gut feeling has told them and thrown an unnecessary turbo at it and used up a huge chunk of budget. It seems like a good thing at first but I suspected that mr warranty Co would start to kick off - heard it all before. What they could really do with is a skilled mechanic with an analytical mind who can understand what the very necessary laid out fault finding procedure is.

I can provide a copy of the P1251 procedure if you want to take it to them but first ask them if they would like you to provide it!

[bothwell_buyer]

you are all mad, but not as mad (angry) as we are at the moment, having still not got the RAV back yet and no further nearer to knowing what the problem is. Apparently as Mr T have spent to much money trying to get to the bottom of this problem, the warranty company now want to come and inspect the work carried out already before authorising any further repairs.....not a problem we say, thats fair enough!

But we are off to London at the weekend and the Yaris is simply not big enough for us to get 4 adults and a load of luggage in. If we had wanted a tiny car we woulda kept the Brabus as its interior is bigger and theres more boot space!!

Mr T tells me that their fleet of courtesy cars are all Yaris's and there are no sales cars available..........yea right! So I ask them to contact their other branch for a larger vehicle, to which he says he will but its unlikely they will have one!!

Suffice to say my OH is fuming and ready to have a go. Course we are now worried as to what we will do if the warranty company doesnt approve any further work, as we cannot afford to be paying out huge amounts on repairs right at this moment in time :(

The garage incompetence is not your fault. Wonder if they kept the old turbo???

I'd gladly come down to drive you to London, but my 4 seater RAV is still in getting its engine change. I have still got the Trafic minibus - unused just now - 6 passengers + driver + luggage space?? Cheap monthly rate!

[chatman]

you are all mad, but not as mad (angry) as we are at the moment, having still not got the RAV back yet and no further nearer to knowing what the problem is. Apparently as Mr T have spent to much money trying to get to the bottom of this problem, the warranty company now want to come and inspect the work carried out already before authorising any further repairs.....not a problem we say, thats fair enough!

But we are off to London at the weekend and the Yaris is simply not big enough for us to get 4 adults and a load of luggage in. If we had wanted a tiny car we woulda kept the Brabus as its interior is bigger and theres more boot space!!

Mr T tells me that their fleet of courtesy cars are all Yaris's and there are no sales cars available..........yea right! So I ask them to contact their other branch for a larger vehicle, to which he says he will but its unlikely they will have one!!

Suffice to say my OH is fuming and ready to have a go. Course we are now worried as to what we will do if the warranty company doesnt approve any further work, as we cannot afford to be paying out huge amounts on repairs right at this moment in time :(

In the line of business I do there are only two resellers in the UK, I work for one of them. We get so much work from the bad sales and support the other does, I have too turn some away ;) or they wait until we can do work for them...

We are up against them on most bids... They can sell but cant back it up with after sales and support services..don't have the skill or knowledge to back it up properly ... As Anchorman has said..the Toyota garage just seemed to have done the normal things that may have made it happen ;) ;) now they are unstuck...Not knowing where to go now.. :wacko:

As you've got a warranty and as I see it the car was sold to you not fit for purpose..Stand your ground and except nothing back until fully fixed...

You do have the new Yaris to keep until yours comes back :!Removed!: ....Keep it until your satisfied..May not be enough space but at least your mobile and using the Yaris at the garages expense... :unsure:

[PinkMinkee]

yes that quite true chatman, it will be alot cheaper to run up to london and back than the rav :)

we miss the rav so much tho, I feel like i have now traded back further than the forfour brabus we part ex'd for the rav, only in terms of space tho lol.

spoke to Mr T this morning, the warranty company inspector spent hour n half looking over the car, requested service history (thankfully all Mr T) and has gone back to their lair to make a decision on whats next. I have been told that there was probably a small unnoticeeable problem from waaaaaaaaaaay back either with the injectors, that has caused a turbo problem, or vice versa...hmmmm fobbing again. I did mention that I was aware there are set procedures for the P1251 problem which I could let them have if they wanted it courtesy of my lovely friend at Mr T (cheers anchybabes lol )

I also said we would be very much displeased if the warranty company came back and told us WE would have to pay ANYTHING towards this repair bearing in mind how short a time we have had the Rav. My OH next plan of action is tell Mr T that we will take our £10k back and go buy a car that DOES work....anyone wanna come down and watch that we are charging 50p a ticket ;)

[bothwell_buyer]

Wot yer need is a real garage tae sort the problem.

I'd have a wee word with the local trading standards the noo tae alert them, and so as ye can tell the plumbers at the garage that yuv been tae TS! Is there nae work fur plumbers doon yer way?? Up here yuv tae clear a landing space fur thur helichopters cos they make that much money! An if a roofing guy can speak English/Scottish then he must be a cowboy - most good wans are frae eastern Europe!

[PinkMinkee]

latest....

took the yaris back today, swapped it for a newer model as the one we have been driving the last 2 weeks is out of service now.

Warranty company have pproved the next lot of work...replacing the diesel injectors and if that doesnt solve the problem they will then approve the next lot of work (or not as the case may be i guess)

so far its £4k worth of work which is the replaced turbo, replaced cat and now replaced injectors

anyone want to hazard a guess as to when we should get the rav back and whether this latest fix will sort it out once and for all? lol

[chatman]

Hey Pinki...want us to start a book bet on that then............ :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Best hope they dont eBay for parts.. may find this in yea RAV Click Here

Good luck and keep us posted on updates...Tell em at the garage you have a load of inquisitive forum members eager to know what the problem is...so we can add the garage to the Banned list of no gooders and cowboy mechanics.... :lol: :lol:

[bothwell_buyer]

Warn them that global warming is threatening the south of England and you may have to move in 2021.....

[PinkMinkee]

righto got her back last wednesday, fully kitted out with new turbo, cat and diesel injectors, finally costing the warranty company £4k and me £18.80 for fuel....methink cheap at half the price..........she is running like a dream and pulling like a freight train, now all we gotta do is get a chip and she will give a fair few peeps a run for their money.

we had a welcoming commitee at the door when we pulled onto the drive cos i didnt tell me OH i was picking her up, I just pulled on the drive and tooted the horn......he fitted the new head unit, aerial and some lovely ice blue headlamp bulbs, and it is !Removed! glorious having her back.

I'll give the guys at Mr T their due, despite me being a drippy moany customer at the beginning, i don't think i could have asked for better service really, as Mr T could only follow the course that the warranty company allowed, so pat on the back to Marsh Toyota Plymouth :)

[bothwell_buyer]

Sounds good.

Dya think they would help me with my RAV - the nearside mirror is dirty - perhaps they'd replace the panels wi rust fur free????

[PinkMinkee]

you gotta toyota used approved warranty.........no?

don't think so then, guess we was just lucky hehe :P