2001 Rav 4 - Blowing Blue Smoke...please Advise

[s0da girl]

Hello there,

I'm new to this club. I was wondering if anyone can give me some inputs on what i should do with an issue im having with my Rav 4.

I have a 2001 Rav 4 with 114kms. It blows blue smoke in the morning and anytime after it has been sitting for a few hours (mainly after work) for about 5 to 8 minutes or so.

I have gone through the dealership to get it tested and they say that it is usual for this to happen in the morning or anytime it is not in use for long periods of time, specially during winter season.

I feel that i need to get a second opinion about this. I had a corolla for 8 yrs and its ony when it was at 246kms that is started to blow blue smoke. Is this common for a rav 4 at 114 kms??

Let me know, thanks!!

[anchorman]

Hi Soda Girl and welcome to the club.

As long as your RAV is running OK I wouldn't worry too much. You haven't said if you have a diesel or gasoline engine. The former is especially OK at that kind of mileage (I take it you mean 114,000 kms) and the latter is entitled to smoke a bit if only when cold.

Older diesels tend to take a while before they completely burn all of the fuel when cold and petrols can burn oil if there is some wear but settle as the temperature rises and components expand.

It is important to assess oil consumption until you are confident with it but other than that enjoy the car.

Cheers

[bothwell_buyer]

anchorman

Does what you say apply to LRs?? Or does the engine ever heat up??

[s0da girl]

Hi anchorman this is soda girls husband thank you for your reply, it is a petrol engine not diesel. the only real Question that is in my mind is why is there even wear on a regularly maintaned engine? the valve stem and seals should be perfectly fine for way more then 100k's is this a toyota thing? i have owned many manufacturers and have never had such wear on any past 250-300,000kms so is this a weakness in toyota ? what also is a little bothersome is that all toyota guys seem to be perfectly ok with the wear. i have always like toyota but my confidence is waivering, we have not done a consumption test yet that will be the next thing and i will pull the plugs too see if it is burning in one or all cylinders. the vehicle has a toyota extended warranty and they don't want too repair it even tho there statement is that the PROBLEM is not bad enough......they admit to a problem but they do not want to fix it. now i know the engine will not spontaneously sieze from this matter but that is not the point, thanks again for you help any othe help will be of assistance.

[bothwell_buyer]

Gday from a cold and frosty Glasgow

I assume from the date of your car that it has a 1AZ-FE engine?? (Aluminium engine block)

Or does it have the older 3SFE engine? (iron engine block)

As anchorman says, if you can get an idea of how much oil it is using, that would be helpful. Also, is the car being used for short journeys only? I'm guessing that at such a low mileage, its not getting up to working temperature too often.

If its not getting up to working temperature; and depending on the weather temperatures you might have there (sorry - I've not been to Canada, and don't know a thing about weather there!), then maybe it needs a different oil to cope with the stresses of not getting a long run? I still agree with you that at that low mileage, the engine should not be burning oil - and if it is only on start up then it points to oil getting into bores via valve stems. What grade of oil are you using?

If there's smoke at other times - eg overrun or decelerating, then its another issue.

I found the 3SFE engine on the '94-2000 cars is not that strong - despite it having been used in Corollas and so on before. The later engine with VVTi is a new approach, but being a newer design, would have thought it to be reliable. Have you tried to get an opinion of a specialist engine tuner at all - ir someone who can give a professional opinion on the engines condition. With that, you could try approaching Toyota to claim replacement/maintenance against warranty?

One thing that I do wonder about is why the smoke lasts 5-8 minutes then I assume it disappears? Sure its not the condensation in the exhaust?? Back to checking the oil level daily, and then get back to us.

hope this helps to move forward a little -

[T600]

I found the 3SFE engine on the '94-2000 cars is not that strong - despite it having been used in Corollas and so on before.

Can't agree with you there Bothy,

That 'and so on' includes Celicas and MR2s in which that engine has proven to be incredibly strong. I know of plenty that have done way over 100K miles without any problems.

And apart from a few changes such as the extra oil nozzles etc, it's also the basis of the 3S-GTE turbocharged engine which, as you know, can safely run several hundred horsepower fairly safely with not much more than forged pistons.

On the other hand, there have been many problems with some of the later engines at very low mileages, particularly the 1.8 VVTi which Toyota are now replacing at anything up to 7 years old because so many are suffering from oil burning due to oval pistons/cylinders at anything from 40K miles onwards.

Which engine do you have soDa girl? Do you have full Toyota Service History?

[bothwell_buyer]

I found the 3SFE engine on the '94-2000 cars is not that strong - despite it having been used in Corollas and so on before.

Can't agree with you there Bothy,

That 'and so on' includes Celicas and MR2s in which that engine has proven to be incredibly strong. I know of plenty that have done way over 100K miles without any problems.

And apart from a few changes such as the extra oil nozzles etc, it's also the basis of the 3S-GTE turbocharged engine which, as you know, can safely run several hundred horsepower fairly safely with not much more than forged pistons.

On the other hand, there have been many problems with some of the later engines at very low mileages, particularly the 1.8 VVTi which Toyota are now replacing at anything up to 7 years old because so many are suffering from oil burning due to oval pistons/cylinders at anything from 40K miles onwards.

Which engine do you have soDa girl? Do you have full Toyota Service History?

beg to differ

the 3SFE has basically the same block as the 3SGTE but the 3SGTE is very different - different pistons, cranks,etc etc etc quite apart from a totally different cylinder head which is what this topic is about. I know one or 2 3SFE engines which have fallen apart betrween 100,000 and 160,000. The 3SGTE will run up well beyond 7000rpm - try that with a 3SFE and you can expect the piston to meet you for lunch.

As far as the VVTi engine goes, I've not heard much about them, but then again I'm not too interested in what they are placed in. B)

Course we could always talk about the Hillman Imp, or even get into the gutter with the LR 2.25 heap of metal...Sodagirl - you don't want to see how much blue smoke comes out of the diesel Landrover engine!!!! Starting; overrun; anything!! I'm getting flashing anber lights for it to warn people!! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

[anchorman]

T600

You are right, there is an oil consumption issue with some VVTi engines and I understand it is associated with the pistons/bores.

Now I am trying to put myself in the position of the Toyota guy assessing what to do about Soda Mans problem. If the issue is about smoke when cold then there are several factors to consider with regard to what might be going on;

If it is general wear, i.e. the engine is running OK but is exhibiting enough wear to pass some oil only when cold then this could be down to how the vehicle has been used (short trips) or driven (high loads when cold - please don't be offended by that) or even the type or frequency of oil changes etc. Some oils can lead to rings sticking and rubber components hardening. As long as the engine runs OK and oil consumption is not too high (from memory Toyota claim 1 litre per 1000 miles [1600 kms] is not excessive although it sounds horrendous to me - it is a warranty limitation statement) then I don't believe they are obliged to do anything about it.

If it is using oil or as you say Soda Man, is passing oil via 1 cylinder, i.e. there is a specific mechanical problem that IS causing very high oil consumption then that puts a different light on things.

I suppose you could claim that it is only doing about 1000 kms/litre and see what they say. I think the fix for that is a new short engine at least.

With regard to Toyota reliability, there are some specific issues with earlier diesels but certainly not many with petrols. Although the smoking is not right it isn't necessarily an indication of poor quality or a specific weakness. However, if it came on suddenly, that might indicate that something has gone wrong (e.g. a broken or sticking piston ring etc, etc).

If you are really unhappy you are going to have to really put some pressure on.

Good luck.

Bothy

You could start a formation team with 9 LRs given the amount of smoke they chuck out from new - hot or cold. You need to feed in the right red die to the smoke to do a decent opposition roll. Don't worry about die for white, blue or black smoke, it will do those anyway. Make sure the windscreen is clean before attempting this display but don't push the glass hard or it will fall out. The red arrows usually have one spare hawk and one hercules transport but you will need about 250 spare LRs on one of those car transporter trains for displays up to about 10 minutes.

[bothwell_buyer]

The LR has a top speed of 30mph. Keeping formation may be difficult!

[s0da girl]

hey guys thank you very much for you reply's.....diesel LR's wish we had them. the engine is the 2,0 vvt. i have not touched the engine myself yet but i will have too. i kinda hoped the "mechanic" would do some work but that does not look like it will happen, i will have too report back on what i find. we do not have a history but i shouldl be able too get one as it has been serviced at the dealer just not the dealer that we went too. i think that we may have picked up a lemon that was just waiting too ripen, if the acceptable rate is as you say then i am sure that it will not be touched by a mechanic, that is a hell of a lot of oil too loose. in answer too the temperature question we are minus 15 degrees and have had a considerable amount of snow roughly 2 ft in the last 2 weeks in the city and more outside of the city. that said the little trucklet proved amazing in the weather i like the AWD....is it a constantly variable front to rear, not a front wheeel with a clutch system too run the rears.....i seems too adjust back and forth.

[T600]

If you have history then might be worth checking whether you have any chance of it being done under Warranty.

Though the short engines that Toyota have been replacing over here up to 7 years old is the 1.8VVTi. I've not heard of common problems on the 2.0 so you may be out of luck there, but could be worth a try. And as Bothy says sounds more like a problem with the head than the cylinders.

Out of interest, if you're coasting down a longish hill - so engine running, in gear, foot off the gas to get engine braking - do you then get noticeable blue smoke when you next press the throttle? If oil is getting in through the valves you usually do as the engine sucks in the oil while it's engine braking, then burns it once you hit the gas.

Anyway good luck with it and let us know how you get on.

[bothwell_buyer]

hey guys thank you very much for you reply's.....diesel LR's wish we had them. the engine is the 2,0 vvt. i have not touched the engine myself yet but i will have too. i kinda hoped the "mechanic" would do some work but that does not look like it will happen, i will have too report back on what i find. we do not have a history but i shouldl be able too get one as it has been serviced at the dealer just not the dealer that we went too. i think that we may have picked up a lemon that was just waiting too ripen, if the acceptable rate is as you say then i am sure that it will not be touched by a mechanic, that is a hell of a lot of oil too loose. in answer too the temperature question we are minus 15 degrees and have had a considerable amount of snow roughly 2 ft in the last 2 weeks in the city and more outside of the city. that said the little trucklet proved amazing in the weather i like the AWD....is it a constantly variable front to rear, not a front wheeel with a clutch system too run the rears.....i seems too adjust back and forth.

I'd give anchormans suggestion a shot to see if it creates smoke.

With the cold temperatures, one guess is that the oil used in the past has been to thick and has not got to bits like the valve guides causing wear. Just a guess. With my old RAV, I get oil pressure ok, but its slightly slow on start up (milliseconds) when its really cold. Once its warm everything is ok. With modern oils, they leave an oil coating on the parts anyway so no danger. Its when a thick oil has been used and the engine isn't warmed up often enough that wear could occur - maybe if you get the service history and if theres a note of oil used.... for example and for interest; do you use a different oil in winter to that in summer??

By the way, you're lucky you don't have diesel LRs there!! I'll need to video this thing going flat out - between the noise, the fumes, and the smoke !!!

[anchorman]

All LRs have a top speed of 30mph so you shouldn't be able to shake the damn things off!

I despair when I get stuck behind a line of traffic with one at the front. Even 18 cars back you get gassed!!!

[s0da girl]

the last time i was following there was no smoke at all but that was when we first bought it 2 months ago. i had a diesel vw golf 1987, everytime i put my foot down we would home the james bond theme. we will do the consumption monitoring and this week end i will have some time too check it out a little better. we be able too let you know more next week.