Carina E

[MJJ]

Hey there,

Stumbled on this place a while ago after trying to diagnose some problems with my Carina, things arent improving so I've joined up hopefully someone can help....

I have a 1995 Carina e GLI (70,000miles) Manual, Petrol, 1800cc .

It started about 7/8 months ago, the missus rings me from the supermarket, the car wont start. She put the key in, turned it, dashboard lights came on for a second then went out, then nothing, no lights no ignition!

So I go to the supermarket thinking bettary is dead, sure enough turn the key no lights on the dash, no ignition. Popped the bonnet, jiggled the Battery, bounced the car. Got in, turned the key, hey presto ... car starts no problem. Sorted - I think it must have been a loose connection, except I notice one light stayed on - the orange engine management one!

Got home, look in the manual / on the web, find the check codes thing, do it, get code 21 (O2 sensor) - trying to avoid paying £250+ I got a used one from an online breakers for £25. Put it in, light still on.

So I'm thinking - well I've either got a duff sensor from the breakers ( who assured me it worked!!) or the O2 sensor isnt the problem. Especially as everything was fine until precisely the Battery incident - Very Odd.

Dont want to Shell out £250+ for a brand new sensor if thats not the problem do I. So I left it with the original one in for a few weeks and the car ran exactly the same as before. Fuel consumption same as before. No difference at all. Passed its MOT 2 months later no problem, so I'm left thinking the sensor is ok and its a glitch from the Battery incident. Have tried clearing the code by removing the EFI fuse and removing the negative battery terminal but the light is still on.

Anyway a few weeks has turned into a few months and everything stayed the same but now something else started happening about a month ago .... When the car has been running for an hour or so, and is well and truly warmed up, it randomly starts stuttering, can be in any gear or when stopped idle. Its like a fast juddering and the power dies, the car keeps on moving but there is no acceleration. Then 5-10 seconds later it clears and everythings back to normal. It can then be fine for any amount of time, and the juddering comes back ramdomly lasting anything from 2-15 seconds.

It tends to be used more for short journeys so this doesnt happen a lot as it runs fine for the first hour or so. I took it out the other day and seemed to go through the last quarter of a tank of petrol in no time (25miles ish).

Funny thing is, the missus is in town last week and the same weird battery incident happens again. Dashboard lights come on for a second then go off, and everything is dead. Told her on the phone to jiggle the battery around and bounce that corner of the car .... And again that does the trick, lights on, car starts fine. Checked the battery when she got home and its fine, the couplings are connected fine, and the voltage was perfect !!!!

I've read through a lot of the threads on here already about 02 sensors and misfiring (injector 3) but was hoping that someone could point me in the right direction as to where to start with diagnosing the culprit. The battery thing seems a bit too weird to dismiss as part of the problem, but I know its most probably the sensor and/or an injector. Is this all down to one thing or have a few things gone wrong ????

Has anyone come across the battery / starting thing before ???

Please Help !!!

[bobbins]

Hey MJJ,

I've never had the sensor problem yet (touch wood). Have read on here though that the light should clear itself (without you removing fuse or neg terminal) when a working sensor's fitted so maybe the one you got isn't the real deal.

Is code 21 the only error code you are getting?

Rather than assume it's an injector problem some people have found HT leads to be faulty. Maybe worth cleaning or trying new plugs/leads before replacing injector(s).

Let us know how you get on.

Good Luck Squire

[MJJ]

Cheers for the reply Bobb,

Topped up my Battery Cells with De-ionised water (they were quite low, only just touching the metal probes)

I've decided to bite the bullet and get a new lambda sensor, Then I'll get new plugs, HT leads, and finally a new injector (if thats the problem)

Even if I replace parts that are okay, at least I'll have spares!!

Figured I might as well spend a few quid on it whilst its only got 70,000 on the clock.

Will report back with findings ........

[MJJ]

Actually, could anyone recommend which spark plugs I should get ??

[MJJ]

Its happened again.

Car started fine first time this morning, as it alwys does. Go about 1-2 miles down the road.

30 mins later get back in, turn the key - NOTHING. Dashboard lights came on for a millisecond. Then went out and nothing at all on ignition. No clock, no lights, NOTHING. Everything dead. Thought oh great !! Sat in the car for about 10 seconds. Was about to pop the bonnet but tried the key again. EVERYTHING FINE. Car starts instantly.

What is going on ??

I'm thinking it may be something to do with it always raining slightly when this happens. Damp somewhere?

Why always AFTER a small journey though? Not before the days first journey?

The Battery condition is fine, I've tested as soon as its got home after these incidents and the voltage is always fine!

The car never struggles to start, like the Battery is struggling. Its either BOOM - first time instantly, or nothing whatsoever. Like there isnt even a Battery connected!

HELP....

[MJJ]

Just reading through the forum and wondering if this might be an immobiliser problem ??

Would the immobiliser just stop the engine starting and the dashboard lights remain on, or would the immobiliser cause the clock and all lights not to light ??

[MJJ]

Thought I'd update:

Checked the spark plugs - Absolutely fine, nothing at all to suggest the mixture wasnt correct.

Seem fairly new so not bothered buying new ones.

Convinced myself the electrical problem is a damp issue so unclipped as many electrical connectors I could find under the bonnet and blasted them with WD-40 to drive out any moisture. One did look a bit wet inside, described in the Haynes manual "as the wiring form the idle speed control valve on the lower front of the throttle housing" anyway blasted that out.

Tightened the main connections to the Battery, and swapped the fuse position in the back of my CD/radio so it doesnt come on as soon as the ignition is turned! pain in the *****!

Bought a new O2 sensor, plugged it in and hey presto, no more light on! (thank god)

So it seems the one from the online breakers was knackered too!

Anyway, the car is running fine, (as it was most the time anyway) but not give it a real good run yet to see if the juddering starts.

Will let you know..... not that anyone is listening!

[Carl Burretour]

Hi MJJ I have an identical problem with starting. Battery is fine and car runs great. Twice, now, I've gone to start the car and there is no electrical power even the warning light for the open door doesn't come on. Like you I've lifted the bonnet jiggled a few leads and subsequently when I get back in the door open warning light is on and all the other electrics are working fine again too. The car starts as soon as I turn the key.

First time it happened was last summer after a short run. It happened again this morning, obviously months later. The first time I wasn't too worried but this time I'm going to get it sorted.

The first time it happened there was no posibility of dampness so I reckon we can rule that out. Today when it happened it was slightly different in that when the power came on again, after lifting the bonnet etc, it went off as soon as I turned the key. I opened the bonnet again fiddled about with some wires, although like you I don't think doing that made a difference. When I got back in the power was on again and it started straight off. When I got to work I turned off and on again, as a test, and all was well.

One other thing I noticed was that on this occasion the clock had stopped at 1am. The clock has stopped a couple of times lately but I'm not sure that it's related to the starting problem.

Like you I've thought that the problem could relate to the immobiliser / alarm system. It would be good to know if that would effect the other electrics as well as the starter but nobody seems to know as you didn't get a response before when you asked.

If I get any ideas I'll post again, please do likewise.

[garethpaul]

It could possibly be your iginition switch having worn out contacts. Have you tried wiggliing the key when this happens?

There's a thread in the workshop section about replacing this

Starting Problems On Avensis? Solution.

How to change the ignition switch (pics)

[Carl Burretour]

It could possibly be your iginition switch having worn out contacts. Have you tried wiggliing the key when this happens?

There's a thread in the workshop section about replacing this

Starting Problems On Avensis? Solution.

How to change the ignition switch (pics)

Thanks for posting that, Gareth Paul. I guess that could be the problem but I'm not sure. Prior to reading your post I tried to start the Carina again and, initially it wouldn't start. When I turned the key to the first position the dash lights and radio came on. The clock was showing the correct time 1.40. When I moved the key to the start position everything went off and, strangely, the clock reset itself to 1.00! Apart from the clock everthng electrical was completely dead. I looked under the bonnet there are no loose connections. Got back in the car and it started fine. Started it a number of times. With the engine off I tried the electric windows, sunroof, horn etc and all worked well suggesting that the Battery is fine. Next time it happens I'll try jiggling the key and report back.

Does anybody know of any electrical cut outs that could turn off all electrical supplies? NB This is not just the starter motor its all electrics apart from the clock.

Can anybody tell me if the imobilliser only effects the starter motor or does that turn off all the electrics?

Why would the clock reset itself to 1.00?

Any help greatly appreciated.

[garethpaul]

definitely sounds like an ignition barrel problem.

With the clock resetting - i'm not sure how it is wired but it should have a permanent live to retain the memory, and a switched live (operated by the key) to make it light up.

Perhaps the permanent live for the accessories somehow goes through the iginition barrel circuit as well as the switched live, and the contacts are dirty/worn away.

I'll have a look in my haynes wiring diagram later to see if sheds any light (not sure what in common the corolla and carina will have, but its worth a look).

[Carl Burretour]

definitely sounds like an ignition barrel problem.

With the clock resetting - i'm not sure how it is wired but it should have a permanent live to retain the memory, and a switched live (operated by the key) to make it light up.

Perhaps the permanent live for the accessories somehow goes through the iginition barrel circuit as well as the switched live, and the contacts are dirty/worn away.

I'll have a look in my haynes wiring diagram later to see if sheds any light (not sure what in common the corolla and carina will have, but its worth a look).

Thanks for that. One thing I haven't tried is to check to see if the lights work when there is apparently no power. I imagine that the light circuit is totally independent of the ignition so that will be a good test.

I'm concerned that The engine could suddenly stop when I'm driving along but I guess that wouldn't be the case as that too would be a different circuit, assuming that it is the ignition switch that is at fault.

[MJJ]

Hi Carl,

Its a weird one isnt it ! Its not happened for me since I last posted but next time it does I'm gonna check all the electricals and see whats "on" and whats not.

Thing is, it always happens to the missus and not me !! The dodgy inginition barrel could well be the culprit, cheers garethpaul for that.

Keep me informed how you get on....

I definately seem to have the faulty injector problem I suspected as the misfire/stuttering is getting more and more frequent.

Now I've got to try and find a new Blue injector, but I'm not having much luck !!!

[Neuroner]

My first move if this was my carina would be to take apart the ignition and clean it with

a good solvent (like isopropanole or equivalent.) Being well educated in electronics and

close to clueless on the mechanlical parts of the problem, thus I see solutions only linked

to electrical problems.

Your clock has got a live thats allways on, and another causing it to light up - that is activated

when you turn your key to ACC.

The clock resetting would be caused by the loss of all voltage to it. There is only a tiny condencator

on the circuit board of the clock, so when you disconnect the power in some way, it resets very quickly.

The clock reset itself to 01:00 when you started (or attempted to start) the car. When you do this, the

voltage out of the Battery decreases due to the extremely large amounts of current in play. If your

Battery is the original one, I would suggest you either have it tested or replace it.

Important note on leadaccumulator car batteries:

The voltage between the + and - terminals is high on a good Battery and high on a bad battery.

The amount of cells within the battery is the determining factor for what voltage this will be.

However, on bad batteries, the voltage drops when the load is connected. Thus you would need to

connect something that draws alot of power, and then measure the voltage when that gadget is on.

As said above, I deem the most likely cause of your problem to be a bad contact, probably emerged

from water/moisture somewhere where none should be.

Also, change the cable you shot WD-40 at. The moisture may be gone, but once it was there, the

damage is done, and the cable is no longer good. It may work, but not perform as it should when

in a pressed enviroment, concurrent with when you experience the errors.

Keep us posted on progress please

Regards, Neuroner

[already_1uk]

could i possibly suggest checking the earth cable from the Battery, if this comes momentarily disconnects it will lose all power and would reset the clock etc

[barry d]

may sound sily but i had a similar problem on my v6 mazda, after changing everything, includin the Battery, altenator

( even bought a gold earth kit as i know the 323 was bad for earths)

Turns out my Battery fuse ( usualy 65 amp or something ) was shot, it had a tiny crack, but it would sometimes jump the spark, and then not, ( more noticable after a bad pothole)

Not sure but if it is, its only a fiver fix from your local parts factor ( motorworld if possible, they sell decent stuff as oposed to the rip speed, i mean rip off merchants at helfrauds lol)

[MJJ]

Well, I've not had the Battery problem happen since last time and i bought new HT Leads, Coil, Distributer Cap, (all brand new) and Blue Injector (Used) for the total cost £64. Great I thought .......

Was gonna fit them all last week and then the steering starts making noises, check the PS fluid, empty..... top it up ..... empty again 4 days later.

Took it to garage, Steering rack is leaking ...... Quoted me £300 quid for new one fitted !!!!! :(

Now I dunno what to do, get it fixed ... or drive this car off a cliff ??????????

Since I've had it Ive replaced the radiator, the O2 sensor, and the Mechanics have replaced some other bits and bobs,

Now I need a 300quid steering rack, and havent replaced my injector yet, in fact I dont even know which one is faulty !!!!

What you reckon lads ??? Bin it or is it worth saving ???

[trev3635]

I'll give you £50 for it, that is, before you drive it off the cliff!!

Depends on how much the car is worth to you, second hand steering won't be much from a scrappy

and if you can fit it yourself even cheaper.

About 30 quid or so i reckon. B)

If your not to far from carlisle i could maybe help you do it.

[Andrewp]

I'm experiencing the 02 sensor problem too following an emissions failure (.76 Co2) at MOT time. Everything else passed but I have the delima of would a used sensor cure the problem, or even a £149 new one via eBay. I don't want to be throwing good money after bad if it turns out to be a "Cat" problem for example.

If the sensor is changed do settings need changing on the ECU because this will add further to my garage bill?

I started looking at new Fiat Pandas for around £5K but reading reviews it looks like they have more problems than my Carina so am wanting to keep it but the scrap man will give me £70 for it which means it has been cheap motoring for 6 months but it's a shame to know a good car is being crushed.............Arrgh.....what to do?? :(

[Andrewp]

Just an update to my previous post: Realising how nice the car is to drive I made an effort to save it, took it to a mechanic I'd not used before, he found a sensor that had become disconnected, took it for its free re-test and the fast idle CO2 reading was down to .01 so the Carina is now Mot'ed for another year. :)

[MJJ]

Nice cheap solution for you Andrew !

Got the Steering rack replaced on mine so thats fine now.

I now also know that its my injector No.4 that is "playing up"

I've got a second hand one to replace it. But not a new O ring (is it really necessary ???)

and in 2 weeks I'm gonna get a window in which I can attempt to change it, all I need is the know how !!!

Anyone help with a little step by step guide ?? Please ????? I do have a Haynes manual but I think I read somewhere that its easier than what it syas in there. (Bear in mind I'm a novice with cars beyond replacing radiators and things like that.)

[MJJ]

Well I went for it on Monday and replaced my No.4 injector !!! Had to it was getting worse and worse ...

And so far so good, running like a dream.

Using a combination of the Haynes manual and some old threads on injectors here, I managed it fairly straight forwardly.

Took my time (being a complete novice mechanic) and only disconnecting the fuel supply from the rail had me worried when it seemed I was losing more petrol than I should have been. It stopped eventually. Anyway although I took about 2 and a half hours doing it, I reckon I could do it again in about 30 mins. Hopefully I wont need to though.

Basically though if I can do it .... anyone can !! Dont be put off ... total cost .... £20 for second hand injector off eBay.

So now I'm gonna give it a service and hope after all this bother I'll get a good run of service from the pain in the ***** !! fingers crossed.

Just wanted to thank everyone who's contributed to this thread and other threads on similar subjects. I have learned tons, and saved a good few quid, cheers.

[scatty247]

It could possibly be your iginition switch having worn out contacts. Have you tried wiggliing the key when this happens?

There's a thread in the workshop section about replacing this

Starting Problems On Avensis? Solution.

How to change the ignition switch (pics)

Thanks for posting that, Gareth Paul. I guess that could be the problem but I'm not sure. Prior to reading your post I tried to start the Carina again and, initially it wouldn't start. When I turned the key to the first position the dash lights and radio came on. The clock was showing the correct time 1.40. When I moved the key to the start position everything went off and, strangely, the clock reset itself to 1.00! Apart from the clock everthng electrical was completely dead. I looked under the bonnet there are no loose connections. Got back in the car and it started fine. Started it a number of times. With the engine off I tried the electric windows, sunroof, horn etc and all worked well suggesting that the Battery is fine. Next time it happens I'll try jiggling the key and report back.

Does anybody know of any electrical cut outs that could turn off all electrical supplies? NB This is not just the starter motor its all electrics apart from the clock.

Can anybody tell me if the imobilliser only effects the starter motor or does that turn off all the electrics?

Why would the clock reset itself to 1.00?

Any help greatly appreciated.

hi i had same problems , and even wiggling key about seemed to work for a while, i ended up parking on hills everywhere caus i never knew if it would turn over or have to bump it! turns out the immobiliser had gone even though i couldn't understand why remote locking and alarm still worked, or why it would bump start with immobiliser on but anyway repair was estimated at 300 so i paid 50 quid to have the ignition rewired bypassing the immobiliser

[MJJ]

I found that the starting problems went away when I tightened the positive terminal right up on the Battery. There was a kind of red rubber/plastic thing on the ring stopping it from tightening up to the Battery properly. Maybe the immobiliser was kicking in when the connection wasnt properly made. Anyway had no issues with that since.

Now though, the drivers side door lock has a broken spring and wonr open from the outside, anyone know where the springs can be gotten from ???

and how the hell you disconnect the linkage from the door handle to the lock mechanism ??? so little room to work in, it just wont pop out at the handle end and seems permanently connected at the door lock end ...its drivin me mad

[MJJ]

Fixed !