Previa - Turbo Failure

[iMAGiNE007]

Same problem here. I have Avensis Verso D4D 2.0, 2005. It has "jerky" acceleration and sometimes engine light comes. I took it to local toyota dealer & service and diagnostic system found an error code P1251. They told me the problem may be in different parts of engine, but they still can't find it. I always leave them the car for 1-2 days after the management light comes up, but still no success. :(

[geoff@tnrradio]

took my previa in today for the diagnostic and it came up with nothing ,funny thing is , the car has been running fine , i described the symptoms and the guy said it sounds more like some valves sticking which in a way i hope it is as it's around 345 quid to sort instead of about 1700 for a turbo , the problem now is i have to wait until the symptoms start again then take it in which will be another 38 quid .

it's odd that you'll get loss of power as if the fuesl is running out or there's muck in the fuel , then the power will kick in and after a few miles of driving like that , the engine warning light will come on but the car starts driving fine and after you stop and re start the car , the warning light goes off and it drives fine .

[propnut]

took my previa in today for the diagnostic and it came up with nothing ,funny thing is , the car has been running fine , i described the symptoms and the guy said it sounds more like some valves sticking which in a way i hope it is as it's around 345 quid to sort instead of about 1700 for a turbo , the problem now is i have to wait until the symptoms start again then take it in which will be another 38 quid .

it's odd that you'll get loss of power as if the fuesl is running out or there's muck in the fuel , then the power will kick in and after a few miles of driving like that , the engine warning light will come on but the car starts driving fine and after you stop and re start the car , the warning light goes off and it drives fine .

Sounds like your wastegate valve or actuator are sticking. This will give intermittent issues and are common causes of periodic power loss on any turbo vehicle.

I had to smile at Previa Fan's comment about shrapnel flying around the engine. I really cannot believe that any mechanic could possible suggest such a thing. Where exactly would this "shrapnel" come from. What exactly would be flying around the engine. If anything had come loose you would certainly know about it long before it hit the turbo. Unless it was one the the turbo's own vanes disintegrating (which is highly unlikely) this is a huge lump of bovine !Removed!.

[Bacon]

I haven't said much more here on the problems some are suffering on the possible turbo failure on the Previa as I don't really have any more to add than I have already posted.

I know that the failure on our car was the wastegate as I have the old turbo sitting on my bench. Our problems started with some hesitation when pulling away and eventually the EML coming on very occasionally with the usual limp home mode that just isn't worth a dam. Stopping the car and restarting it would reset the EML and the car would drive normally. It of course got worse and then for some strange reason performed normally all summer and then the problem came back in the colder months. It reached a point that I could drive this car without the problem hitting us by careful use of the throttle. Heavy use would bring the light on every time and use of the cruise would do the same as the cruise just isn't as gentle as I am on the throttle. My wife had also developed her own method of driving the car carefully so that the problem didn't hurt us. We mostly village hop here so gentle throttle use is fairly easy.

I decided to get the turbo replaced after being compromised a couple of times on the motorway with a wheelchair passenger in the back. Just not safe. Toyota did provide the turbo at a discounted price as we were not long out of warranty, car was dealer serviced and we first reported the problem at about 27K miles if I remember correctly.

[japman]

:wacko:Hi guys. 1 week on and no positive news from the main dealer.

Just managed to squeeze some info out of them now and have confirmed they have a turbo and a vacum? on the parts list??? I have had this turbo removed and new wastegate fitted for arguments sake as we could not fault the original one? Is there any way i can confirm this turbo was not gone??

Thanks for your earlier reply propnut! :!Removed!:

[propnut]

All turbo or supercharged vehicles are designed to operate within a certain boost limit. This is the purpose of the wastegate, it is a safety and control valve. For example if your car is designed to operate at a max boost of 8 psi, then either at 8 or maginally over or under the wastegate opens to divert the exhaust gases away from the turbo impellers and into the main stream exhaust system. In doing so it manages the boost. As the boost falls below this level then the wastegate closes allowing the boost pressure to increase and the process continues. Now it is possible to test the efficiency of the turbo using a boost gauge connected to either a purpose fitted tap on the turbo or off the inlet manifold. You may want to ask them if they have conducted such a test and if not why not.

I have said it before on other posts and maintain it here again. The majority (but certainly not all) of modern mechanics are just part changers. They read a code off an OBD scanner and change the part. If that doesn't fix it then they change another part and another etc etc . In other words they fix by a process of elimination or as we used to call it trial and error!!!!

What seems to have been lost is a thorough teaching of automotive physics and mechanical fundamentals. Without these one is not armed with sufficient knowledge to make intelligent decisions and diagnosis of a problem.

A short while ago I went in search of "plastigauge". To those of you out there who have a background in automotive engineering you will know what this is. For those who don't it is an extremely simple but absolutely necessary tool for evaluating the hydraulic wedge clearances between two surfaces. Do you think I could find one auto factors or agent who knew what I was talking about........no ****ing way. I even went to my local Nissan and Toyota agents to ask their workshop foremen where they got theirs from to which I got..."you want what??????" and then ....."sorry mate we don't rebuild engines anymore". In the end I got it from the USA via eBay.

Need I say more.

[JustBrowsing]

Same problem here. I have Avensis Verso D4D 2.0, 2005. It has "jerky" acceleration and sometimes engine light comes. I took it to local toyota dealer & service and diagnostic system found an error code P1251. They told me the problem may be in different parts of engine, but they still can't find it. I always leave them the car for 1-2 days after the management light comes up, but still no success. :(

Hi, i have same poblem on my avensis verso. Any further foward with a solution?

[JustBrowsing]

Same problem here. I have Avensis Verso D4D 2.0, 2005. It has "jerky" acceleration and sometimes engine light comes. I took it to local toyota dealer & service and diagnostic system found an error code P1251. They told me the problem may be in different parts of engine, but they still can't find it. I always leave them the car for 1-2 days after the management light comes up, but still no success. :(

Hi, i have same poblem on my avensis verso. Any further forward with a solution?

[iMAGiNE007]

So finally it is working correctly!!! I have found the company that involves in cleaning of turbo chargers. They cleaned and decarbonized my turbo and the problem is gone. It cost me some 170 €.

[propnut]

So finally it is working correctly!!! I have found the company that involves in cleaning of turbo chargers. They cleaned and decarbonized my turbo and the problem is gone. It cost me some 170 €.

There you go you see, regarding my comment on modern mechanics above...............I rest my case. How many people have been conned into a new turbo when all that was possibly required was a decoke. 99% chance it was your waste gate that they cleaned.

[hexagon]

Just joined this forum & interested in Turbo limp mode issues

Not wishing to sound patronising but this thread is a great example of members sharing relevant experience & practical knowledge

A bit different from some other web site forums with little or zero type reply threads

[Bacon]

Well, today I finally booked in our Previa to have a new turbo fitted next week. We had this diagnosed by the main dealer almost a year ago when we were getting the dreaded engine management light on and a sudden drop in engine performance. Stopping the car and restarting the engine would clear it. We have managed to get another year out of it by careful use of the throttle and to be honest, it appears to run perfectly during the summer months and them show it's ugly head again during winter months. The fault codes always say 'stuck turbo' . When it fails, it wouldn't pull the skin off a cold plate of porridge :o

The car was 4 years old when first diagnosed with 27k miles on it. A year later we are at 34K miles. Toyota offered us a 1/3 off the price of the Turbo when it first occered and will still honour this one year later. Dealer is helping with the labour cost but I must say I am not a happy bunny as they say. I get the impression that failing turbo's are getting quite common as the dealer has done a few including RAV4's? The good thing is he won't be learning on my car.

I'm not sure that I really have a point here other than being able to share this with other Previa owners or perhaps invite some comment from a Toyota Tech who appear to frequent this forum.

Regards

Alex

OK, I started this thread when I had my Turbo replaced on my Previa D4D. I have the old turbo in my garage and from what I can see, the wastgate is stuck. From other posts on here, it may be coked up. I'll look at that some other time.

Anyway, after the turbo change, I noticed that the car would puff black smoke when the throttle was blipped at standstill. I didn't notice any while driving. I never noticed this before but it would be fair to say I wasn't looking for it. I asked the dealer to look at this as I felt it was tied into the turbo change. I agreed to bring the car back in when I had a convenient time to do so . After driving the car a few months like this (wheelchair vehicle) with no EML, the problem developed into some heavy black smoke. If I reved the car at idle, I could now lay a black trail down on the road from the exhaust smoke. The other symptom was at 3000 revs, the car lost all pulling power. I could get it to rev higher on the move but it would take a long time and just wouldn't pull. No engine management lights this time around. Just a solid no real power at 3000 revs and black smoke.

I had the dealer take the car away to check out the turbo installation and anything else they could think of. I also asked for a mechanic who has experience on diesels and the shop foreman personally took charge. After two days in the shop, the shop foreman brought my car to me and showed me the two items that were replaced. From what I have learned over on the RAV4 forum technical section, the mechanic replaced the Suction Control Valves (SCV) on the fuel injection pump. These are replaced in pairs.

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87986

The car is now running as well as I can ever remember it. Although the mechanic tells me the two problems are unconnected, I'm left wondering if the black exhaust smoke was coking up the turbo wastegate. Cause and effect?

So, I should probably start another thread for this but I still feel it's connected to the original turbo failure or are these engines that problematic?

[u02i045]

Hi, guys Ref: Toyota Previa 2003 Uk

I had a Problem with my Turbo in 2005 and got it replaced under warranty, in the Winter of 2007 ( Begining of November) all of a sudden loss of power and Mangement light etc started again, not beaing able to afford the costs involved in replacing he TURBO( warranty now expired ), I asked went hunting for a cheaper option and came across an old friend who works for a place where they recon. engine parts.

short of it all is he told me to try 10k Boost available @ most Halfords and Redex in the fuel system half tank fuel not the recommended full tank dilution

Now December 07 (christmas week) I tried this and within a week or 2, I noticed the diffrence NO MORE LOSS OF POWER, NO WARNING LIGHTS things were looking good, did not want to post anything on here as I was not sure how long this would last.

Its now near the End of Jan 2009 and I have not had a problem since trying the 10K boost and Redex

TOTAL COST £25

its worked for me and I would recommend giving it a try as it will only set you back £25

[rhjoiner]

Hi, guys Ref: Toyota Previa 2003 Uk

I had a Problem with my Turbo in 2005 and got it replaced under warranty, in the Winter of 2007 ( Begining of November) all of a sudden loss of power and Mangement light etc started again, not beaing able to afford the costs involved in replacing he TURBO( warranty now expired ), I asked went hunting for a cheaper option and came across an old friend who works for a place where they recon. engine parts.

short of it all is he told me to try 10k Boost available @ most Halfords and Redex in the fuel system half tank fuel not the recommended full tank dilution

Now December 07 (christmas week) I tried this and within a week or 2, I noticed the diffrence NO MORE LOSS OF POWER, NO WARNING LIGHTS things were looking good, did not want to post anything on here as I was not sure how long this would last.

Its now near the End of Jan 2009 and I have not had a problem since trying the 10K boost and Redex

TOTAL COST £25

its worked for me and I would recommend giving it a try as it will only set you back £25

[rhjoiner]

Hi, guys Ref: Toyota Previa 2003 Uk

I had a Problem with my Turbo in 2005 and got it replaced under warranty, in the Winter of 2007 ( Begining of November) all of a sudden loss of power and Mangement light etc started again, not beaing able to afford the costs involved in replacing he TURBO( warranty now expired ), I asked went hunting for a cheaper option and came across an old friend who works for a place where they recon. engine parts.

short of it all is he told me to try 10k Boost available @ most Halfords and Redex in the fuel system half tank fuel not the recommended full tank dilution

Now December 07 (christmas week) I tried this and within a week or 2, I noticed the diffrence NO MORE LOSS OF POWER, NO WARNING LIGHTS things were looking good, did not want to post anything on here as I was not sure how long this would last.

Its now near the End of Jan 2009 and I have not had a problem since trying the 10K boost and Redex

TOTAL COST £25

its worked for me and I would recommend giving it a try as it will only set you back £25

Hi I have posted on this turbo subject earier in the thread 7th March 2008. I have a little more information for you!

As you will have read in the post I made on 7th March 08 I have had previous problems with the turbo.

I had it removed and repaired ( since found out it was not actualy repaired, it was checked, cleaned, and then re-checked for operating after cleaning. It was diagnosed by the Turbo Specialists as only been choked up with carbon & they cleaned it, tested it, and returned it with a clean bill of health).

As mentioned in the last post I made it was fine for around 4 to 5 weeks then the car cut out on me again with the managment light coming on. As before turning the ignition off & restrting it would clear the managment light. This happend to me twice within one short motorway journey back in March last year. After that the car was only used for short local journeys around town. Kids to school, suppermarkets, shops etc. The cutting out problem didnt occur again although it was not running 100%.

In August 2008 we planed a 4 week holiday in Torrevieja in Spain & wanted to take the car. Before we left I asked a garage to do a full service on the car including oil change, new oil filter, air filter, fule filter, etc. The garage said the problem with it not running 100% was probably down to the "air flow meter". They said they would change it for me while they carried out the service if I went and collected one from the main Toyota dealer, which I did at a cost of £115. (just for the Air Flow Meter, the cost of the service parts & labour were paid to the garage seperatly) They fitted the part & completed the service.

Before setting off I took out the best break down Insurance I could find, crossed my fingers & set off.

We had covered just short of 4000 miles as we arrived back home & the car had run like a dream the whole journey. The only problem been the Air conditioning Packed in on the way there.

Since we have arrived back the car has slowly started to deteriorate to its former state. It's not running particulaly well & the fault of cutting out to limp mode & the management light coming on has started up again. This has become progressivley worse and is now happening on the odd occasion while driving around town. It mainly seems to happens when reaching the summet of steeper hills. Its got to the position where you are making sure you keep to the inside lane just in case it cuts out. It is still drivable, its just a case of been cautious on the uphills.

last week I had it check out on the computer & it has come up with the fault codes saying "Tubo Fault" again. I would love to just take it into the main dealers and say right please fix it & give me a ring when its ready but I just cant afford the exessive prices they charge.

I cant seem any harm in trying the solution that previous post has done wth the 10k Boost & Redex, at £25 its wortth a try & surley cant do any harm. I must admit if it has cured the problem for him I think he has been very lucky. For some reason I cant see it working for me but I will give it a go. If I have no joy with this then I think it will be a case of the same procedure as last time. My friend stripping down as necessary to get to the turbo & removing it, having it sent away to be reconditioned & then refitted & more finger crossing.

I have yet to have the air conditioning fixed. I took it to an english garage while in Spain. They tried to re-gas it but it did not work. They looked for signs of split hoses etc but could not find none so I told them not to go any further & I would have it looked at in the UK. I would like the air conditioning sorting out but at the moment it is not a neccessaty. The cutting out problem is more of a priority at the moment.

I will keep you posted on how things have progressed.

If anyone has other coments or advise please post

Many thanks

rhjoiner

[tackyturbo]

Hi there . im a new member with Turbo Problems. Had it replaced 3 weeks ago at amain dealer. It lost power again today and engine management light came on again!

Now they tell me that the fuel injectors need replacing costing 1600 euro!

I feel absolutely helpless, the new turbo did not rectify the problem at all but they tell me that this is unconnected to the recent problems.

Help! Helpless and broke

[allewtor]

Hi there . im a new member with Turbo Problems. Had it replaced 3 weeks ago at amain dealer. It lost power again today and engine management light came on again!

Now they tell me that the fuel injectors need replacing costing 1600 euro!

I feel absolutely helpless, the new turbo did not rectify the problem at all but they tell me that this is unconnected to the recent problems.

Help! Helpless and broke

Hi new member here with what appears to be the same problem as the folks above have.

I have a 2002 Previa, and the dreaded engine management light came on, turned engine off, drove carefully etc etc. finally I had to take it to the dealership where they have just given me some fault codes, which are.

DTC 342

343

344 THESE CODES RELATED TO TURBO CHARGER

782

78(3) THESE CODES RELATED TO FUEL PUMP SYSTEM

I'm of the mind that the technicians at the dealership don't really know what the problem is and will just change all the parts that may be the problem.

If anyone has seen these codes and understands them would you be kind enough to throw some light on them for me so I am fore armed with knowledge when the dealership comes at me with repair bills.

This does seem to be a common problem considering all the people in this thread with the same story, i'm going to get on to Toyota and see what they have got to say, i'll let you know in due course what drivel they come out with.

[greengrass]

Hello. I have inherited a Previa D4-D with very similar problems. A little while ago it developed the same limp-home / MIL on problems, which could be overcome by switching off and stasting again. However some time later the turbo went bang, draining the engine of oil (knackering it) and filling the intercooler and exhaust system with oil. An overhauled engine and complete turbo were fitted, and as much of the oil removed from the various pipes. It now does not smoke apart from the odd puff now and again. However the original problem has since returned, and having had similar symptoms on both a VW Sharan diesel and a Merc Sprinter, I replaced the boost pressure sensor (£195) (it cured those two!) but to no avail. Further investigation showed that the turbo was receiving a vacuum command all the time as though the control valve was stuck. The valve seemed to be getting a sensible electrical signal but not doing anything. So I bit the bullet and replaced it. Another £180. It has obviously done some good as the symptoms have certainly altered. The car chugs along fine now, but the control valve does not open until 4,000 rpm by which time the engine is nearing the red line. You can certainly feel it cut in! Good boost pressure and vacuum. However until the engine reaches 4,000 rpm, it performs very much like my rather gutless 1900cc LDV Pilot! Is there a way of adjusting the time at which the vac valve opens? Or is the the ECU corrupted? Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks

[Sportyking]

The other symptom was at 3000 revs, the car lost all pulling power. I could get it to rev higher on the move but it would take a long time and just wouldn't pull. No engine management lights this time around. Just a solid no real power at 3000 revs and black smoke.

I had the dealer take the car away to check out the turbo installation and anything else they could think of. I also asked for a mechanic who has experience on diesels and the shop foreman personally took charge. After two days in the shop, the shop foreman brought my car to me and showed me the two items that were replaced. From what I have learned over on the RAV4 forum technical section, the mechanic replaced the Suction Control Valves (SCV) on the fuel injection pump. These are replaced in pairs.

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87986

The car is now running as well as I can ever remember it. Although the mechanic tells me the two problems are unconnected, I'm left wondering if the black exhaust smoke was coking up the turbo wastegate. Cause and effect?

So, I should probably start another thread for this but I still feel it's connected to the original turbo failure or are these engines that problematic?

Bacon, I am very interested in your latest issue with Turbo power loss, as I may have the same on a 2003 D-4-D Previa with 48k miles.

The Turbo provides good boost low down but then from 2800RPM onwards I can feel the boost being bled away until at 3000 RPM there is none and further progress is non-existant in the higher gears.

If I accelarate briskly you not notice the boost start to bleed away, instead at 3000RPM it feels like you hit a wall as the turbo dumps all boost in an instant and the car pulls back.

No engine management light or warning present.

This came overnight, one moment no problem, next day the same symptoms are always there

The only way the fault differs is that there is no obvious black smoke.

The Toyota dealer did a diagnostic and surprise surprise they want £2500 for a turbo change but I know it's not that.

It boosts low down so Turbo works (As it happens at exactly the same RPM every time I have dicounted pressure leaking through seals as a possibility)

If it is as it feels that the waste-gate is opening then that also works because when I drop below 2800RPM boost returns, proving it opens and closes.

So I am looking for the reason the boost is shut off.

I was thinking a faulty manifold pressure sensor and am currently investigating a repair manual to go further, but I am interested in these SCVs you mention and would like to know whether they are a "cheap" repair that could be tried or they are as usual for Toyota, silly expensive.

[Bacon]

SportyKing, when I had the new issue at 3000 revs, it was like a switch. Hit 3k and no power. It is a different issue to my stuck turbo wastegate although I did wonder if the fuel issue caused the turbo problem. If you follow my link in my post,

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87986

it really gives you chapter and verse on costs (about £200 for parts) and testing methods as well as how one guy changed out the SCV's on his RAV4. It's a known problem on the 2l DVD engine from what I'm told. You will see over in the Rav forum that they see the same problem on that car and engine as well. My dealer foreman 'mechanic' who now works on my car (advice from Propnut) showed me the items replaced and told me that with their diagnostic tool connected, they could see the pulse fall away from one of the SCV's at 3k revs so they changed both SCV's and this corrected the issue.

There is a guy 'Parts King' over on that forum that can supply discounted parts to TOC members.

Good luck and let us know how you progress.

[Sportyking]

SportyKing, when I had the new issue at 3000 revs, it was like a switch. Hit 3k and no power. It is a different issue to my stuck turbo wastegate although I did wonder if the fuel issue caused the turbo problem. If you follow my link in my post,

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87986

it really gives you chapter and verse on costs (about £200 for parts) and testing methods as well as how one guy changed out the SCV's on his RAV4. It's a known problem on the 2l DVD engine from what I'm told. You will see over in the Rav forum that they see the same problem on that car and engine as well. My dealer foreman 'mechanic' who now works on my car (advice from Propnut) showed me the items replaced and told me that with their diagnostic tool connected, they could see the pulse fall away from one of the SCV's at 3k revs so they changed both SCV's and this corrected the issue.

There is a guy 'Parts King' over on that forum that can supply discounted parts to TOC members.

Good luck and let us know how you progress.

Bacon, many thanks it sounds identical to my snag, I may just get this info into our local friendly garage and try it. What the Toyota dealers (JEMCA) are doing declaring the turbo duff is probably just trying to take advantage of the Woman that took the car in for me. I would normally sort it all out myself but I'm away for work at the moment so Mega thanks for taking the time to put together the comprehensive reply.

[Gaff]

Jus purchased a 2002 PRevia D4D. Am seriously worried now about this turbo failure business, thus far she has been pulling fine. Question is: would an aftermarket turbo (GReddy,Turbonetics) of the same size work? After market are often very much more reliable that manufacturer parts. Just an idea, if it'll help and work!.

[tcm]

Hi, guys Ref: Toyota Previa 2003 Uk

I had a Problem with my Turbo in 2005 and got it replaced under warranty, in the Winter of 2007 ( Begining of November) all of a sudden loss of power and Mangement light etc started again, not beaing able to afford the costs involved in replacing he TURBO( warranty now expired ), I asked went hunting for a cheaper option and came across an old friend who works for a place where they recon. engine parts.

short of it all is he told me to try 10k Boost available @ most Halfords and Redex in the fuel system half tank fuel not the recommended full tank dilution

Now December 07 (christmas week) I tried this and within a week or 2, I noticed the diffrence NO MORE LOSS OF POWER, NO WARNING LIGHTS things were looking good, did not want to post anything on here as I was not sure how long this would last.

Its now near the End of Jan 2009 and I have not had a problem since trying the 10K boost and Redex

TOTAL COST £25

its worked for me and I would recommend giving it a try as it will only set you back £25

Hi, I also have a 2003 D4D losing boost at 3000 revs, and wanted to try this 10k Boost/Redex solution before trying anything else. Can you describe how I get to the turbo inlet to spray the 10k Boost in? Any diagrams anywhere?

Many thanks.

[Sportyking]

After a long spell away I finally got to look at my problem. Despite Toyota charging my Sister over £100 for a dignosis and declaring the turbo needed replacement at £2500 it turned out to br the fuel filter needed changing which cost £20. Wjth the sudden onset of the symptoms and virtually no worsening of the situation in the six months I couldn't investigate the issue, I would have to suspect a tank of dirty fuel partially blocked the filter. Unfortunately I changed the SCV's first at just over £200 for parts with no improvement. Anyay the Previa now pulls like a train again.

tcm, the best way to apply the 10k boost would be to open the airbox, remove filter, then remove airbox lid from the pipe that goes directly to the turbo inlet. This will negate any need to remove the air sensor from the lid or risk of gummming it up. Spray directly into the turbo inlet pipe taking great care to ensure nothing else gets sucked in while the engine is running.

[AdrianHartopp]

First off, can I say what a relief it is to have found all this information as I've got the same problem on my 53 Previa.

I'm going to go the route of the cheapest first, up to the most expensive, so have purchased Redex and 10K Boost.

Redex is already in the tank as that's the easiest one, but I'm unsure as to what to take apart so I can apply the 10K Boost.

Would anyone have any diagrams or pictures they could label for me so I could give this a go too. I'm not scared to try anything, as long as I have instruction as to what to take apart.

Thanks in advance for any info forth coming.

Adrian