T180 Poor Mpg, Performance And Road Noise

[VaughanR]

I've had a new Avensis T180 Tourer for 6 weeks (1600 miles) and am extremely disappointed on three counts (two of which may be related?):

1) unbelievably poor fuel economy: 36mpg total average so far (trip computer also verified by manual calcs on filling up). Miles have been mostly 70-75mph on motorways, taking it steady (cruise ctl on for a fair bit), hardly any stop/start urban mileage; In fact that's 1mpg below the official urban mpg!!! The official combined and extra-urban figures for this car are 46 and 53 mpg and I'd expect something in between due to my driving pattern/style.

2) appreciably less responsive engine compared with previous 130 bhp diesel, despite being supposedly 50bhp more powerful. Particularly sluggish in 1st/2nd gear (to the extent it's a problem nipping out at busy junctions), very noticeable turbo lag compared to the past 3 diesel cars i've had (A4, Passat, Golf). The dealer insists this is just 'running in' and me needing to 'get used to' the car' - but surely this isn't typical?

3) road noise (not the engine, which is v quiet, presumably from tyres - which are Goodyear Eagle NCT) is the most intrusive low rumble I've known on a comparable class of car, and is making long motorway journeys very tiresome - not what I'd expect from supposedly 'refined' Toyota top-of-the-range model.. Various passengers/colleagues have commented how noisy it is..

Has anyone else had these problems?! :(

[cmia]

1600 miles!

let it bed in properly first!

[OldSkoO1]

different model same engine

if its what you say it is then theres something wrong with your car.

mines a rocket, around 40mpg at the moment and thats only because its winter. Colder temps means fuel doesnt burn hot enough and therefore more fuel required to produce the same amount of power. In summer i get 44/45mpg.

Mine goes like a rocket in any gear and only turbo lag noticable is when i'm under 1.5krpm and demand max power.

No road noise either so although not very helpful to you, you probably want to run it in a bit, see how it goes or get toyota to look at it.

Theres a guy on here with a t180 tourer i think, shogun or shotgun and he is happy, getting 450miles to a tank and 43mpg.

[bikeman 1969]

i have a T180 saloon and get about the same fuel economy or a little worse if anything i agree this is very poor! I too had a 130 hp vw before T180 felt slugggish until i got used to power delivery , now i think it is quicker than vw. my car hasdone 13,000 miles so don't think fuel economy will get any better, vw easely got 50mpg. As for road noise i havent realy noticed i have the same tyres but maybe a saloon is quiter.

[VaughanR]

i have a T180 saloon and get about the same fuel economy or a little worse if anything i agree this is very poor! I too had a 130 hp vw before T180 felt slugggish until i got used to power delivery , now i think it is quicker than vw. my car hasdone 13,000 miles so don't think fuel economy will get any better, vw easely got 50mpg. As for road noise i havent realy noticed i have the same tyres but maybe a saloon is quiter.

Thanks. It's early days so will see how it does after a few more thousand miles, as per your and others's advice. It's definitely a different 'response curve' on the power to a VW/audi engine, but admittedly a much more refined and quoeter delivery, higher up it may well come into it's own (I haven't been pushing it to hard just yet!) On the mpg I'd be happy if it ultimately gets toward mid-40 mpg on my mainly motorway mileage- it's fair enough it won't be as high as a 1.9TDI (I accept that for a bigger more powerful engine you can't expect the same economy!)

I think saloons are generally quieter than estates as they have closed back, whereas mine gets more road noise up from the boot with only the retractable cover in the way. The last set of tyres I had on my Audi saloon I'd specifically selected for low noise characteristic, whereas I gather the NCTs are optimised for longevity, possibly being harder and more noisey on the UK's rubbish roads!

Cheers

[Bry]

Hi,

Sorry, its not brief! This is a topic which has caused me a great amount of frustration and anger with this model and Toyota over the last 18 months of owning my T180 tourer, I have covered 37000 and believe me, the mileage doesn't bring much if any improvement! I have never had a car (from many dozens) that doesn't achieve or better published mpg figures, this is the first. If only Toyota came clean and explained the reason instead of me having to research and find out for myself! 36 to 42 mpg is all this vehicle will ever achieve, the higher figure if you consciously keep the revs to at least 1800 (light throttle) and forget 6th apart from at 70 plus and remember to regularly floor it in 3rd on the motorway for a couple of miles (explain later)! I also find it frustrating being out dragged from roundabouts by 130 Mondeos and Passats and eaten alive by Mondeo 2.2's, but over gearing is the cause of this and you can match them keeping the revs up!!!

The reason DPF!!! It is basically an obstructive soot filter in your exhaust which gradually clogs and triggers a regenerative cycle of incineration using your treasured diesel to do so! For the foreseeable future the Diesel fuel advantage has all but ended with DPF! I certainly will avoid them in the future until the problems are overcome. Before the green brigade jump on me I will take some convincing that the approx 10% drop in MPG compared to government published figures and the regular regeneration process can be beneficial, frankly it is nonsense, all to meet an exhaust test which doesn't take into account the full consequences and pitfalls!!!

The operating principle of DPF regeneration is; there is a sensor measuring back pressure (back pressure is capable of wrecking a diesel engine!) caused by the DPF and when a pre determined level is reached it triggers the regeneration process, different manufacturers use different techniques but effectively fuel is injected during the exhaust stroke which goes into the exhaust causing it to become an incinerator, up to approx 600 deg! this is hot enough to burn off the soot in the filter leaving ash and the cycle begins again, at the expense of your fuel! You can usually detect it going on as the engine sound changes. That is also why you must use ULSD and never BIO (contrary to the green issue!) Bio diesel injected during the exhaust stroke will dilute and destroy the oil, ULSD does not have this effect. Also, slow deliberate fuel conscious driving seems to make matters worse as more soot is produced requiring more regeneration cycles, a natural passive cleaning process occurs if you work the engine a bit harder hence my 3rd gear motorway bash. Don't buy a T180 if you slug around.

In my mission with Toyota they gave me another T180 to compare, it was exactly the same. VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat 170 DPF problems are also well publicised, at least Toyota's doesn't seem to fail...YET. That said you need to be brave to keep these beyond the warranty period, I am certainly not. The DPF filter is expensive and it will need changing, the VW/Audi group 170 engines seem to have an appetite for them.

Yes, this car does suffer noticeable turbo lag, almost certainly for the same reasons, but as long as you avoid less than 1800 revs, not a problem and it is way over geared, stupidly so, to the point I force myself to drive it a s 5 gear car most of the time and achieve 40mpg plus as a result. I actually never go higher than 3rd gear in 30MPH limits and it is still spinning quite low!

All that said, I actually like the car itself, I would prefer a non DPF 2.2 T150 if it was available, but it never will as these DPF's will find there way onto them all. Re road noise, the original Goodyear's are a bit noisy, I now have maxxis on the front and they are quieter. but the Goodyear's lasted 33K !!! Also proves the consumption figures are not down to abuse?

A lot of opinion there I know, research it yourself if you don't believe me.

[Steve84]

I have had a t180 for 4 months now the car has just done 6500 miles. Just got back from the borth thats 220 mile round trip. I do this run once a week has i have a caravan there, and the most i get is 38.9. My old 1.8 vvt-i avensis and my dads previous 2 1.8 avensis and his current 1.8 all do just short of 50mpg. I find on the welsh mountain roads 4th gear is has high has you can go, 5th in places. There is some turbo lag but what i do find the most on this type of run is if the revs drop to around 1200 rpm you then boot it i find a lot of pinging takes place until 1800rpm. Under light loads its fine but when under heavy loads i find it to be excessive. The dealer has drove the car noted the problem, drove another t180 and that was the same. So not to botherd by the fact that others do it. The gearbox has a habbit of crunching into second gear if gear changes are made between 2200-3600 rpm, again drove another t180 that was the same and the dealer also said they all do it at some point. Tyre noise is over the top then again my old t3x had some tyre noise on it, this is worse but so it every other avensis with 17inch wheels. On the whole i'm happy with the car, have been told by the dealer that mpg will get better, when i first had the car i could just manage 30mpg.

[Salamander]

25K now in my T180 Tourer. Yup - fuel economy mid 30s on a normal slog to work (30m A&B roads + 80m Motorway) - 32 if I'm late, 38 if I drive like a saint. All T180s do this - it's a fact of life you cannot change.

There is a bit of Turbo lag but not too bad - I had the VW group 130's before this - it does feel a bit sluggish low down for a few secs but it is so much better in all other respects it is churlish to complain I feel - at 25K it is powerful, smooth & quiet - 110 feels like 70.... just creamy (apparently)

I can't agree with you re tyre noise - mine is pretty quiet at all speeds - engine, wind & road noise better than CLK I travelled in recently.

Original Goodyear Eagle NCT 5s seem to be fine for motorway work - I do 40K pa & am used to the usual passat, mondeo, Accord products - this is the most refined but only when tyre pressures spot on - noisier when they begin to drop I've noticed.

Smokes like a chimney on occasion as it is getting coked up with soot - yes the DPF sounds an interesting idea......but not in my next car!

Toyota system does fail - First one in our fleet has already died - cost a new EGR valve & CAT - mine next in line it seems.....

Still a great motorway express though.

[Steve84]

25K now in my T180 Tourer. Yup - fuel economy mid 30s on a normal slog to work (30m A&B roads + 80m Motorway) - 32 if I'm late, 38 if I drive like a saint. All T180s do this - it's a fact of life you cannot change.

There is a bit of Turbo lag but not too bad - I had the VW group 130's before this - it does feel a bit sluggish low down for a few secs but it is so much better in all other respects it is churlish to complain I feel - at 25K it is powerful, smooth & quiet - 110 feels like 70.... just creamy (apparently)

I can't agree with you re tyre noise - mine is pretty quiet at all speeds - engine, wind & road noise better than CLK I travelled in recently.

Original Goodyear Eagle NCT 5s seem to be fine for motorway work - I do 40K pa & am used to the usual passat, mondeo, Accord products - this is the most refined but only when tyre pressures spot on - noisier when they begin to drop I've noticed.

Smokes like a chimney on occasion as it is getting coked up with soot - yes the DPF sounds an interesting idea......but not in my next car!

Toyota system does fail - First one in our fleet has already died - cost a new EGR valve & CAT - mine next in line it seems.....

Still a great motorway express though.

The smoking problme is caused by soot build up has you say. I was told by a trusted friend at a toyota dealer they have had a few t180's have new cats and egr valves. The cure is to stick in a bottle toyota injector cleaner in the tank once in awhile. This seems to do the trick.

[Jock Fran]

It seems you guys are having similar issues to Lexus IS220d Owners.

[matty2767]

are these issues limited to the 180 or do the effect the 150 as well?

[Bry]

The problems are only related to DPF T180's the 150 2.2 is probably the last good diesel from Toyota for the forseable future.

Smoke? Never had a wiff from the exhaust of mine, that signals the DPF is knackered, OH and mine has managed an almighty 37mpg the last 600+ miles...magnificent!

Injector cleaners do absolutely nothing, the problem is nothing to do with dirty injectors.

I repeat, the performance is OK ish, but compaired to my other cars that have produced 180 ish HP, its crap!

Unfortunetly, less than 45 mpg from diesel is economical madness, petrol has just made an overnight comeback, its incredible how this DPF saga has been kept so hush hush, or is it?

BMW now achieve nearly 50mpg from a 177HP 2 litre petrol and nearly 60mpg from their DPF 180HP diesel!!! even if you remove the DPF 10% innacuracy it is still 54mpg, 15 more than my T180!!! what do they know that Toyota and the rest don't?

I would love to get rid of mine, but a 60% depreciation in 18months is hard to take, thats what i am been offered!

[CarlP]

Firstly I have to point out I know little about engines but recently I have spent a lot of time browsing the Jaguar X Type forum. It seems Jag owners have similar issues with their diesels. A few of them have taken it upon themselves to clean the gunk out the EGR valve as it is a relatively easy task on that particular engine. Not sure if it is a DIY job on an Avensis but some Jag owners have reported significant improvement in performance and consumption as a result. Just a thought.

[matty2767]

as an aside i filled ours up today and got 39mpg. just 455 miles on 52ltrs. although the missus is on maternity leave and just pottering about in it.

[VaughanR]

Thanks for your in-depth feedback on this one Bry. I was hoping mine might have been a single dodgy engine (hence possibly getting replacement on warranty) but it sounds inherent in the model.

I'm actually looking at getting a 'rolling road' bhp/torque test done, because I'm convinced the curve it will plot will in no way be close to the advertised performance. If this does quantify a major shortfall (i.e. more than 10% below what it should be) then I'm going to fight this hard with Toyota. The case will be MPG = 10-15 less than advertised, Power/Torque = X% less than advertised - surely they cannot get away with this under the 'trade descriptions' act?!

To compound how annoyed I am with this having very carefully weighed up for a few months what I would choose as my new car, I shared driving with a colleague in a hire car the other day - a Vectra 1.9CDTI 150bhp with only 400 miles on it - and it was a rocket compared with the T180... and got 45mpg on mainly A-roads at 60-70)

Cheers

[Groovy Mucker]

Same fuel economy problem here. Not sure about the lack of performance, and the road noise is no problem at all. And I think the car is great. 10,000 miles, 07, 3,000 of which are mine over the last 7 weeks. Average about 35 mpg.

I decided it must be my style of driving - I confess a heavy right foot - and so I tried to baby it along: gentle acceleration, smooth driving, hardly any above 70 mph.

Result: 43 mpg, brim-to-brim. Which is crepe.

So I filled up with Shell V-Power.

Pootling at an indicated 70 (slightly over 66 mph according to the computer) on the M6 this afternoon, and using the computer (I know, I know) I seemed to be getting about the same. I reset it and it dipped to around 30 mpg (still at "70").

I remembered reading something about regularly pushing the revs to 4500, so I did that for maybe a mile (perhaps less), about 50 miles from home (mix of A66 and A1(M)). I kept a steady "70", and a weather eye open for Co Durham's finest, I got just over 51 mpg (again, according to the trip computer).

I propose to repeat this for the rest of the current tankful, and for the next, keeping an eye on the computer mpg and, when it seems to be dropping, repeating the 4500 revs treatment.

Anyone else had this experience? Anyone know what's going on? (If you think I'm mistaken, I shan't be offended: I know nothing about cars.) ANy other bright ideas? Anyone want to join in the experiment?

And please tell me if I'm likely to damage the engine!

[Adyone]

:) Hi I am a new member and have had my 56 plate T180 hatch (22,000 miles) for just one week.

Love the performance, I find it smooth and powerful after my 2 litre petrol Vectra.

Economy wise, I can only say that I am seeing an average of 37.2 mpg after only about 270 miles of driving this car and getting used to diesel power.

My commute to work is about 16 miles each way, some town driving and dual carriagway (Burton to Derby).

Acceleration in third gear is great!

I will try to blow the cobwebs out of it soon and see if the mpg can be improved.

I love the T180 specification and the fact that it looks so understated B).

Will update on MPG at next fill-up.

Thanks

[Bry]

It has come as no surprise to me to find out everyone with this engine has the same opinion, including Lexus owners! I am also convinced that this car does not put 177HP down and I think the power will reflect the shortfall of economy about 12%+ I even had mine booked in for a professional rolling road analysis but canceled due to Toyota making a suggestion it could be a clogged EGR and I took it in for this, a brand new one was fitted and after a further 4K the result is no change. I need to re-book the rolling road!

I wasn't convinced anyway as the economy has been bad and stayed bad since day 1.

I also tried to convince myself (unsuccessfully) that things would improve with mileage, driving style etc...they don't!

Fuel type has been mentioned, I have had good experiment with this too, and maybe a small variation was achieved, but again the result is different to anticipated and are very subjective:

Worst average seems to be Shell Extra Diesel about 37mpg, this is available in the North, I go South a lot and have used their Shell standard diesel (not "Extra")

I managed 42 -43 with that?

The best I seem to get is with Sainbury's City Diesel never below 40mpg and achieved my highest ever tank cycle of 44.4!

Shell V power and BP's version seem to average 37 - 39 ish

I forgot to mention that my car got its one and only ECU software upgrade a couple of months ago and maybe? an extra 1 or 2 mpg was achieved, but cant say i noticed anything else.

I must say though, apart from a slight margin with Sainsbury's the results are marginal.

We have concentrated on MPG because that is the Achilles heel of this car, but would love to hear any opinion on the following?

1/ Automatic wiper control erratic and very poor, min sensitivity ends up at a max speed wipe it light rain, sensor has been changed, no improvement.

2/ Climate control is hopeless, after a few miles it switches to cold air out of the centre vents in your face and stays like that unless you manually switch to screen footwell, reported but no solution offered.

3/ I have the DAB radio, once or twice a week you start the car and it is not there as an option, only am/fm, you have to turn off and start up again to get it back, reported, but no solution offered.

4/ Brakes - excessive pedal travel, lack of bite and spongy, were bleeded/cleaned, no improvement, tried another Avernsis and they are all the same. tried a Yaris and Auris, they are spot on!

5/ The throttle pedal was obstructed by the carpet, mine wasn't getting full throttle until I removed a bit of carpet, checked other's and they seem the same.

6/ My black paintwork scratches if you so much as look at it, I took every precaution possible being warned about this, to no avail!

Everything else is good, I think!!!

I hope Toyota take notice of this site, sure they do or no point having a PR dept, they are undoubtedly hiding from this problem with guarantees of economy etc etc.. rubbish!!

PS I tried the new Subaru Legacy diesel tourer, I thought the Avensis was refined until I drove that.....FANTASTIC!!! no DPF! 4wd and 50mpg.... 148 HP yet at least as quick as the T180 Avensis.......heaven!!! Trouble is, can't afford the losses on mine to change.

[Adyone]

I reset my ave. mpg just before a journey on a dual carriageway, and by journeys end got readings around the 42 to 44 mpg range.

If i had maintained that journey, I'm sure that the average would have been 40 plus mpg. However, when in the town I can see the average will fall and settles to around the 37 mpg area. For a 2.2 litre engine in what is after all a big car, its a better average than I am used to! :)

I agree about the auto wiper setting, mine starts off OK then speeds up to maximum speed even in a slight drizzle! :(

As to Climate control, I am still getting used to it.

I am running the car currently on Sainsburys ULS City Diesel and will fill up again later in the week to check the fuel consumption again.

I still think its a great car though, inspite of the unachievable fuel economy in the real world.

Why aren't motor manufacturers forced to only publish real world fuel econonmy figures?

Thirsty cars will still come out as thirsty and likewise economical cars will still be economical cars ! :o

Cheers

[T Sport 1978]

I reset my ave. mpg just before a journey on a dual carriageway, and by journeys end got readings around the 42 to 44 mpg range.

If i had maintained that journey, I'm sure that the average would have been 40 plus mpg. However, when in the town I can see the average will fall and settles to around the 37 mpg area. For a 2.2 litre engine in what is after all a big car, its a better average than I am used to! :)

I agree about the auto wiper setting, mine starts off OK then speeds up to maximum speed even in a slight drizzle! :(

As to Climate control, I am still getting used to it.

I am running the car currently on Sainsburys ULS City Diesel and will fill up again later in the week to check the fuel consumption again.

I still think its a great car though, inspite of the unachievable fuel economy in the real world.

Why aren't motor manufacturers forced to only publish real world fuel econonmy figures?

Thirsty cars will still come out as thirsty and likewise economical cars will still be economical cars ! :o

Cheers

40MPG with my T180 on last tank. This including 80% heavy right foot motorway driving.

As for this DPF problem... What are you guys saying? Is there anything to look out for (i.e symptoms).

[Jock Fran]

I still think its a great car though, inspite of the unachievable fuel economy in the real world.

Why aren't motor manufacturers forced to only publish real world fuel econonmy figures?

Thirsty cars will still come out as thirsty and likewise economical cars will still be economical cars ! :o

They're not manufacturers figures. They're figures based on an EU standard test cycle. People always blame the manufacturers, but it's not the manufacturers fault. Those figures are what the cars achieve in the official tests.

They could change the cycle to something more realistic, but it would mean higher official CO2 emissions and higher VED.

Personally, I've always managed to meet "official" figures, but the only T180s I've driven are brief drives in a Lexus IS220d and the Auris, so couldn't really gauge the MPG properly.

[bigchristye]

Hi all,

very intrigued by all this fuel enonomy discussion.

Have a 57 T180 tourer. Done just about 10k in the last 5 months.

Avg Mpg - 43mpg.

do I drive about on pootle. I dont think so. Its to much fun for that!

Can I outdrag a mondeo 130diesel. Yes. . . Easy. How come you cant? Most intrigued by that one !!

(and thats against my mates old mondeo and my colleauges new spangly 57 plate model. (I think thats about 136hp isnt it?) )

The 43 to the gallon is consistent on the computer, and YES, I am smart enough to think this is lies, but I can also do maths. Still there or thereabouts 42 - 43 mpg no matter how I bat about in it. (equate to about 450miles out of a "tank" with some left... A tank NOWHERE near as big as a passat btw! but i didnt like that thing anyway)

My drives are mostly A roads, and motorway, and that, but for the life of me I cannot get it down below 42 or 43. . . Am I lucky here or do I drive different?

Yes, i pootle about town in 4th.

Yes, I mostly drive it in 5th on a roads and in 6th above about 65 - 70.

Sit on motorway when its clear (HA!) at 80 - 90... (err where legal of course..)

Do I whizz around to 4k revs in 3rd and 4th. Quite often? - Does this clear the DPF out? Perhaps?

Is my boot full of stuff. Well mostly. goes with the job.

Well, its not the advertised level, but its liveable for now.

Intrigued for sure. . .

ok as for the other comments: auto wipers are a bit odd. BUT ! There arent alot different from other auto wipers I have had. Got to trust them a bit!

Yes agree about carpet and full throttle pos. Same for big footed lurches like me. Catch me foot under something unless I move it back!

Still like it a lot though, esp for the stealth bomber thing. NO ONE ever sees a grey avensis estate coming !

[VaughanR]

*UPDATE*: HOPEFULLY OF MUCH INTEREST ON THIS TOPIC..

Having been fobbed off by the main dealer, I took it on myself to have a 'rolling road' test at an independent diagnostic/tuning centre (cost about £40) and it confirms what I've been thinking all along: 'T180' (which is actually rated at 177BHP) only gave peak 120BHP onto the road!!! The engineer advised me that the loss between engine rated power and what is put onto the road is typically 20-25 BHP and so even allowing for this it shoudl have put down 152- 157 BHP.

Upshot - actual power probably 32- 37 BHP less than what it should be. This, along with motorway mpg's of around 35 MPG doing steady 70 mph (I have yet to achieve the official 'urban' mpg whilst actually doing mainly 'extra-urban' mileage!) is completely unacceptable. I've now done 2500 miles and there hasn't been any improvement whatsoever between successive tankfulls.

In my view, it is now completely clear that the BHP and MPG problem are related and I will be challenging Toyota under the warranty to either fix it, replace it or give me a complete refund. Consumers such as us have rights under the Sales of Goods Act. If I order a 50" Plasma and a 32" CRT gets delivered, it's simply not on. Similar principle here! I know others have said it's naive to believe official figures but I'd say this is 'out of the ballpark' on mpg and bHP, not just a minor quibble. If your T180 is good then I'm glad for you, but if you have the same MPG as me, I'm sure you'll have the same goddam awful BHP situation if you have it tested...

Since encountering these problems I've identified 3 other people at the place I work with the same car/engine and same problems - COME ON TOYOTA - OWN UP - there is a serial defect on these models isn't there?!

Vaughan

[CarlP]

*UPDATE*: HOPEFULLY OF MUCH INTEREST ON THIS TOPIC..

Having been fobbed off by the main dealer, I took it on myself to have a 'rolling road' test at an independent diagnostic/tuning centre (cost about £40) and it confirms what I've been thinking all along: 'T180' (which is actually rated at 177BHP) only gave peak 120BHP onto the road!!! The engineer advised me that the loss between engine rated power and what is put onto the road is typically 20-25 BHP and so even allowing for this it shoudl have put down 152- 157 BHP.

Upshot - actual power probably 32- 37 BHP less than what it should be. This, along with motorway mpg's of around 35 MPG doing steady 70 mph (I have yet to achieve the official 'urban' mpg whilst actually doing mainly 'extra-urban' mileage!) is completely unacceptable. I've now done 2500 miles and there hasn't been any improvement whatsoever between successive tankfulls.

In my view, it is now completely clear that the BHP and MPG problem are related and I will be challenging Toyota under the warranty to either fix it, replace it or give me a complete refund. Consumers such as us have rights under the Sales of Goods Act. If I order a 50" Plasma and a 32" CRT gets delivered, it's simply not on. Similar principle here! I know others have said it's naive to believe official figures but I'd say this is 'out of the ballpark' on mpg and bHP, not just a minor quibble. If your T180 is good then I'm glad for you, but if you have the same MPG as me, I'm sure you'll have the same goddam awful BHP situation if you have it tested...

Since encountering these problems I've identified 3 other people at the place I work with the same car/engine and same problems - COME ON TOYOTA - OWN UP - there is a serial defect on these models isn't there?!

Vaughan

The performance and economy you guys are getting from this supposed flagship model is totally unacceptable.

If you have bought new then threaten them with 'Watchdog', that may make them take notice.

[bigchristye]

Can I just say that before we all go off madly leaping to conclusions here that a statiscal sample of 1 is not good engineering practice?

I agree it LOOKS like a serious problem. However, has anyone else got a rolling road result the same?

I also think if i remember rightly.... rolling road set is different for diesel and petrol - given where peak torque and power sit on a diesel vs a petrol? I am not suggesting you are stupid (far from it!), but its a silly question worth checking isnt it??

I am not anti or pro toyota particularly, but I am an engineer and there is much to be understood here considering the potential problem that maybe uncovered.

I genuinely think that a few more of us should get a rolling road answer. What happens if we are all at 120hp on the road then?

Has anyone done the same on a 170hp VAG group diesel yet? or a GM/Saab/fiat 1.9D (150hp version) Are these similar on the rolling road? (ideally the same one!) - What are they like? Anyone know?

Please take it from me that I am as concerned about this as everyone else reading this - even if I can get 480miles out of 49litres. (new record last week!) - which I might add was two journeys all the way along the M4 and back - avg speed 74mph (off the (reset) computer I admit)

Obviously I would be foolish to sit here and say hahahaha not my problems.

Digressions aside, something isnt right, but we need more of us to decide if this is a genuine problem on all T180s or something leading us the wrong way... Has anyone on the lexus forum or the auris forums done rolling road tests? Are these the same?

As I said, I am not trying to fob off the answer here. You just dont have enough evidence to form that conclusion on your own - SO can we all bob in and help out here. I will get meself down to a rolling road in the next couple of weeks if its going to help. (in which case can we get a group discount!!!???? )

Suggestions welcome please!!

Cheers