T180 Poor Mpg, Performance And Road Noise

[OldSkoO1]

Get the car in to the garage. My t180 had a ecu recalibration recently; dealers have to update any T180 that comes in. Worth a shot.

31mpg is absolute crap if its a true manual calculation.

How many miles do you get out of a tank

[Adyone]

T180 economy

We did a run on Sunday of mainly 'A' roads through Leicester and Nottinghamshire, a journey of about 98 miles round trip.

Set off with a full tank and about 3/4 of the way home on the return leg, the average MPG showed the best I've ever had,

46.2 mpg !

Sad git that I am, I photgraphed it in the display just to prove to those at work that we achieved it!!!

Seriously, just a steady run enjoying the day out (3 adults in the car) went to National Trust property. No dawdling, no racing and more importantly, in no hurry.

Actually, when you want to be quick in this car - yes it will go like a scalded cat!

It can be done.

Adrian

[Johan007]

Regarding the cold air hot air debate you are both right however cold air is typically better for petrol cars as the Diesel engines have enough air going into them.

[Bry]

And - on the plus side (admittedly not much) I had a great deal of fun on the way home tonight and still managed 31 mpg. I wouldn't have had anywhere near the mid-range acceleration with a petrol engine.

Of course you would, ever driven a Petrol Turbo? vastly superior! Ever driven a non turbo diesel, get out and walk! Lets compare like with like!

[Bry]

Regarding the cold air hot air debate you are both right however cold air is typically better for petrol cars as the Diesel engines have enough air going into them.

Cold air is better for any engine petrol or diesel, it is more dense, holding more oxygen, Diesels do normally have enough air going into them for the standard tuning set up, not least because it is kept cool, Why bother fitting expensive intercoolers if it doesn't matter?

The debate was that poorer fuel consumption would occur in cold weather, apart a minimul loss from the initial warm up period thats nonesense, as the engine efficiency will be at least the same or better.

My car gives more torque steer and pull when its warming up, especially on a cold day.

[OldSkoO1]

Regarding the cold air hot air debate you are both right however cold air is typically better for petrol cars as the Diesel engines have enough air going into them.

Cold air is better for any engine petrol or diesel, it is more dense, holding more oxygen, Diesels do normally have enough air going into them for the standard tuning set up, not least because it is kept cool, Why bother fitting expensive intercoolers if it doesn't matter?

The debate was that poorer fuel consumption would occur in cold weather, apart a minimul loss from the initial warm up period thats nonesense, as the engine efficiency will be at least the same or better.

My car gives more torque steer and pull when its warming up, especially on a cold day.

Your car but if your torque steering when warming up your giving it too much of the beans without it being fully warm which could damage things.

Anyway - i reckon the t180 avensis has a similar or same problem as the lexus 220d's had. The ecu was over fueling the injectors and the 5th injector can become clogged over time esp. at low speeds. It can cause limp home mode and engine power loss to prevent damage due to a blocked EGR valve.

Lexus/toyota seemed to have fixed this by remapping the ECU to inject less fuel and replaced the injector nozzles with newly designed ones.

Maybe my car even suffers from this - who knows. But lexus owners who have had fixes / replacements report better economy and engine efficiency.

[Bry]

Regarding the cold air hot air debate you are both right however cold air is typically better for petrol cars as the Diesel engines have enough air going into them.

Cold air is better for any engine petrol or diesel, it is more dense, holding more oxygen, Diesels do normally have enough air going into them for the standard tuning set up, not least because it is kept cool, Why bother fitting expensive intercoolers if it doesn't matter?

The debate was that poorer fuel consumption would occur in cold weather, apart a minimul loss from the initial warm up period thats nonesense, as the engine efficiency will be at least the same or better.

My car gives more torque steer and pull when its warming up, especially on a cold day.

Your car but if your torque steering when warming up your giving it too much of the beans without it being fully warm which could damage things.

Anyway - i reckon the t180 avensis has a similar or same problem as the lexus 220d's had. The ecu was over fueling the injectors and the 5th injector can become clogged over time esp. at low speeds. It can cause limp home mode and engine power loss to prevent damage due to a blocked EGR valve.

Lexus/toyota seemed to have fixed this by remapping the ECU to inject less fuel and replaced the injector nozzles with newly designed ones.

Maybe my car even suffers from this - who knows. But lexus owners who have had fixes / replacements report better economy and engine efficiency.

Nope affraid not....The EGR was changed recently at 33K and in any case didn't look bad coming of a diesel, it had new injectors due to a batch fault from Denso causing missing at cold start, so nothing wrong with them, it had the remap at 30K not that....... It has never brought any fault lights on and never gone into limp mode. All the afor mentioned made absolutely no difference to performance or economy.

I dont cane it until at least a few miles are covered, even then I dont really cane it, 2 - 3K!!! but on a cold day engine temp is still just above cold area (normal area) and thats when it goes at its best.

For your info, I have have been iformed that the Auris and RAV4 engines are identical!!! slight performance difference is down to the shorter exhaust system, but made up for slightly with the lighter weight of the Auris, the Avensis is the slightly more efficient engine, same economy from much more weight, officially!!! but its hardly efficient!!!!

[OldSkoO1]

Maybe it is the weight of it then

As my t180 did a very mixed trip this weekend, town, a, b and m-way 4 hour journey and got 39mpg with some heavy foot, some normal foot and a bit of CC.

The car was full with people and a bit of luggage.

Lowest reading I've had on a journey so far. Apart from short town driving.

Still - i drove a 1.6 petrol SR recently i that did 30mpg and didnt have any power.

also- apparently the is220d injection system and ECU remaps have only been noted in about feb/mar of this year. So maybe they gave you the older nozzles and same ECU mapping as before. Thats if you believe what you read on the lexus forums.

[Steve84]

When i asked my local dealer about a ecu update they knew nothing about any update. I told them i was getting 37ish to the gallon they said well its doin well cos most of are customers get lower than that. They said they had one in for service doing 36mpg and that is the norm. Thats like 10 mpg less than toyota quote, ok there figures are based under test condictions but i'd at least expect over 40mpg. Quick question i've drove a few 2.2 d4d's 150bhp and another t180, they all seemed to suffer pinking from 1400-1800rpm like mine does, was told this is normal by dealer, and cos i've drove others i was happy. Today i drove a is220d and there was no pinking at all, on a plus point tho the mpg was less than my avensis it was low 30's. Any other t180 owners out there found pinking to take place or have i just drove a dodgy batch of 2.2 150bhp's and t180's.

[Groovy Mucker]

We all know about the "official" figures. I'd be surprised if manufacturers didn't tweak to get the best. BUT if Toyota is so far out, then I think this gives them a credibility problem.

BTW, with plenty of care, I've recently been getting around the 45 mpg mark.

[Adyone]

Given that we all want to believe in Toyotas reputation for quality and reliability, I would be disappointed if they were proven to have produced some T180's that were below par.

I think that to achieve the official MPG figures in the real world does require the driver to be very concious of not being heavy footed on the throttle pedal, don't hang on to the upper rev range in the lower gears etc.

In the T180, good progress can be made if you change up at around 2,000 rpm - don't forget that this is a 2.2 litre turbo diesel engine that gives maximum torque (295 ft/lbs) at 2,000 - 2600 rpm.

It is not a screamer engine but it does rev much higher than most Audi/VW 1.9/2.0 tdi engines, maybe that's where they (Audi/VW) gain in MPG?

The performance of this engine is very seductive, I love it and it was this that took me away from the 2.0 litre versions.

Anyway, at the present price of diesel, we should be driving more economically if only to minimise the Tax/Duty for Gordon Brown!!!

Cheers

Ady

[Steve84]

I've been getting around 37 mpg in my t180 but more is possible i've had upto 48.9mpg and last night i got 47.9mpg its hard work keeping revs low all the time less than 2k but can be done. drive it normally and it drops to 37 again.

[Bigdave69]

:censor: I also have a T180, had it two months and am frankly very disapointed in the fuel consumption, my last car was a 2L diesel X type and that averaged just over 40mpg and went up to high 40's on a long run, the car i had before that was a 2L mondeo 140bhp, that averaged 50mpg and went up to 60+ on a long run. My Avensis is only averaging 34mpg. This is rubbish. Come on Toyota, come clean, their published fuel figures having read the comments above, seem greatly exagerated. May get rid of it and go back to a mondeo again.

[Groovy Mucker]

I've been getting ... upto 48.9mpg ... drive it normally and it drops to 37 again.

That's the problem. Who wants to drive it normally?

Mind you, I've averaged 45 over the last 2000 miles, brim-to-brim. The computer has shown up to 61mpg (once; but usually 52-58 for the morning journey, not too much acc/dec, and taking it gently on dual carriageway and A-roads, doing between indicated 60 and 70).

Actually, it's quite relaxing. And - when you feel like it - you don't feel too wasteful putting your foot down.

[Tmax]

I've had a new Avensis T180 Tourer for 6 weeks (1600 miles) and am extremely disappointed on three counts (two of which may be related?):

1) unbelievably poor fuel economy: 36mpg total average so far (trip computer also verified by manual calcs on filling up). Miles have been mostly 70-75mph on motorways, taking it steady (cruise ctl on for a fair bit), hardly any stop/start urban mileage; In fact that's 1mpg below the official urban mpg!!! The official combined and extra-urban figures for this car are 46 and 53 mpg and I'd expect something in between due to my driving pattern/style.

2) appreciably less responsive engine compared with previous 130 bhp diesel, despite being supposedly 50bhp more powerful. Particularly sluggish in 1st/2nd gear (to the extent it's a problem nipping out at busy junctions), very noticeable turbo lag compared to the past 3 diesel cars i've had (A4, Passat, Golf). The dealer insists this is just 'running in' and me needing to 'get used to' the car' - but surely this isn't typical?

3) road noise (not the engine, which is v quiet, presumably from tyres - which are Goodyear Eagle NCT) is the most intrusive low rumble I've known on a comparable class of car, and is making long motorway journeys very tiresome - not what I'd expect from supposedly 'refined' Toyota top-of-the-range model.. Various passengers/colleagues have commented how noisy it is..

Has anyone else had these problems?! :(

Yes indeed! Even on my humble 2008 1.4 Auris (petrol), the urban MPG is only 29-30, compared to 37-38 on my 2002 Corolla, and 35MPG on my 2007 Auris, all with the same engine. Maybe the engine just needs to loosen up? However a bigger problem is the low frequency road noise - really bad and tiring for long journeys. However is it a little quieter than the 2007 Auris I previously had.

[uumode]

I have a petrol 1.8 4 speed automatic gearbox Avensis,

and that does in summer (with eco driving) about 38-40mpg calculated - optimistic display shows 40-43mpg

since diesel is about 11% more expensive than unleaded that gives me '42-44mpg'

I was thinking of changing to diesel or a Prius but am looking more to a fully electric car like a Th!nk Ox which affords far greater fuel savings - but unfortunately it's still in concept!

[Bry]

Update!

I have completed a few more thousand miles since i last posted on this topic, i have driven it in every which way possible and hae achieved 43mpg on a tankfull at best, average 39mpg, In 44000 miles I have never achieved the claimed 45.6! and dont forget, thats supposed to be an average!

DPF DPF DPF THATS THE PROBLEM !!!!!!!!! It steals your diesel!!!!!!!

[OldSkoO1]

Sell it and get a ford

with the money left over get the wife a nice handbag and a pair of shoes

everyone wins

[Bry]

Sell it and get a ford

with the money left over get the wife a nice handbag and a pair of shoes

everyone wins

The P/X value wouldn't even buy the same age old shape Mondeo ST, nowhere near!!! 18months old with 43K, highest offer £9200!!! 14K depreciation in 18 months, horendous! I would swap it immediately for an older ST155.

I wonder why OldSko01 defends the totally unacceptable fuel economy of T180's which almost everyone agrees, Does he work at the Toyota factory????? He gets an admitted 40 and a bit and thinks thats acceptable, If the Toyota figures were accurate, most would average 47 some would get 49 ish some would get 45 is, but NO, everyone celebrates when they average 40 and a bit, the overall average seems to be 38/39, 10 to 15% below claimed!

[Groovy Mucker]

Bry, I'm not sure we're on a level playing field unless we know what, for example, ST155 owners are getting compared to Ford's figures. I expect all manufacturers tweak their engines to do well in the tests (details of which are, after all, published) - it may be that Toyota's engineers are better than others.

[GregT3-S]

OK once again these aren't the figures toyota have come up with they are from the official EU tests where they also test for CO2 emissions.

I'm not supprised they got a good result on the average MPG front looking at the test, how they do it is below: -

Part 1 urban test - weighted car, cold start, driven at an average speed of 12MPH.

Part 2 extra urban test - weighted car, warm start, driven at an average speed of 39MPH.

So when your bombing around at 70MPH+ don't be supprised if you don't come close to the official figures. That doesn't explain why cars of other manafacturers can match or beat the oficial figures. I pick my T180 up on Wednesday as long as the power is there I don't mind paying for it in fuel.

I don't like reading this thread either seems as i haven't even picked it up yet and I'm writing about possible problems.

Bry I feel your pain with regards to Avensis depreciation just got £7250 for my 2006 T3-s with only 12500 on the clock with extras like bluetooth and parking sensors fitted. no credit crunch my a** wasn't enough to clear the finance!

[Groovy Mucker]

Avensis depreciation ...

Keep the T180 longer. You will, you know!

[Bry]

I dont have any choice but to keep it longer, i cant afford the loss at the mo, but I am prepaired to change it at a loss and do look forward to seeing the back of this dissapointing car!

FACTS

The T180 can not get more than around 42 mpg NOW MATTER HOW YOU DRIVE IT OR WHATEVER FUEL YOU USE. A TRUE OVERALL AVERAGE OF 39MPG WITH MINE.

The T180 Does not perform anything like its claimed 177BHP

I have had many dozens of cars from most manufacturer THIS IS THE FIRST CAR, DIESEL OR PETROL THAT WILL NOT ACHIEVE MANUFACTURERS FIGURES (STUFF NOT MANUFACTURERS FIGURES, THEY BRAG ABOUT IT's ECONOMY IN THE BROCHURE!)

For info I have owned two TDCI Mondeo's and they both averaged around 48mpg and 55+ on a run, and I flogged the ar** of them, exactly what you would expect. I owned a VW powered Galaxy TDCI and it averaged a comfortable 44/45 mpg with more achievable + it weighs 2 ton. I owned a Diesel Honda CRV before this Guzzler and it averaged a comfortable 46 And like I said, all of my petrol's have and still do (we have 2) better than combined figure. NON DPF ENGINED CARS WILL ACHIEVE CLAIMED FIGURES UNLESS YOU HAVE A LEAD FOOT AND DRIVE AROUND TOWN ALL DAY.

The reason (boring I know) is DPF !!! You go on a long flat road, in still conditions, cruise at 50 mph and if a regenerative cycle is going on you will see the instant more constant 65 ish mpg drop regularly to about 33/35 for a few seconds then jump back up, THAT IS YOUR DIESEL BEING INJECTED INTO THE CYLINDER DURING EXHAUST STROKE TO INCINERATE THAT CRAZY FILTER. READ YOUR HANDBOOK, IT EVEN INFORMS YOU OF IT IN THERE IN NOT SO MANY WORDS!

I have tried the cruise on and off, also turned off the traction system, neither made any difference. For info my car has the latest software, new EGR, new injectors, starts first click and never emits any smoke.

I am convinced the re-generative process does not find its way onto the fuel test and your seeing results based on normal running, Impossible to achieve in the real world as you cannot stop the regen occuring, not that you would want to unless unless you remove the DPF as when causing back pressure through blocking with soot, you will have your con rods joining the radiator through the side of the block!

My mate has just got a new A3 Sport 170, He is keeping me informed, has covered only 1700 miles up to now and averaged 45mpg, he reset the computer the day he got it, as he knows all about this and he doesn't crawl around or believe in running in Diesels. He was considering a T180 Auris, but thought better of it, somehow think I would rather have the Audi!

[OldSkoO1]

I dont want to sound like i'm trying to argue with people but i'll add my thoughts below

I dont work for toyota

A c-class i drove which is my dads didn't get anywhere near the average consumption stated

Neither did my mums volvo or my sisters VW which was mainly broken down.

I've driven lots of toyotas, we also have a diesel RAV xTR and that suppose to average 42.8 and it sticks at 38 all day long.

The prius i drove only got 45mpg which i thought was horrendous

My t180 is 3mpg under the average. Infact since i put normal Shell extra in i've been getting 43 nearly 44mpg and thats not even trying that hard.

If it did give me another 3mpg say to give me my average thats only really another 30miles to a tank. I just dont worry about things so minor.

I fuel with vpower anyway so i'm spending an extra 5 - 7quid a tank.

Having had a t-sport and a compressor that used to do only 320miles to a tank going to a car that does 450 miles to a tank that is probably as quick is a godsend.

I bought the T180 for its rapid performance, i'm surprised it can get 44mpg which its getting now.

If i wanted a car for economy i would have got a 1.9tdi VAG, maybe an octavia or even a 2.0d avensis. The t180 is not an economy car, its a quick and clean diesel; i knew the NOX reduction or 5th injector would impact economy before i bought it but i didn't care. I test drove it for a weekend, it was QUICK, comfortable, had lots of things as standard and it gave me over 40mpg no matter how i drove it. I was sold.

Another point about Toyot's is the amount of safety equipment they carry. I'm fairly sure without checking my auris t180 is heavier than a 3 series. You know weight is an issue with economy but i've heard 2 concrete stories of how the auris has been excellent in a crash. The officer saying that if it was any other car the occupants would have been dead.

Providing your not doing short / town journeys you should be getting more than 36mpg. If not then you DO have issues.

[OldSkoO1]

I dont have any choice but to keep it longer, i cant afford the loss at the mo, but I am prepaired to change it at a loss and do look forward to seeing the back of this dissapointing car!

FACTS

The T180 can not get more than around 42 mpg NOW MATTER HOW YOU DRIVE IT OR WHATEVER FUEL YOU USE. A TRUE OVERALL AVERAGE OF 39MPG WITH MINE.

The T180 Does not perform anything like its claimed 177BHP

I have had many dozens of cars from most manufacturer THIS IS THE FIRST CAR, DIESEL OR PETROL THAT WILL NOT ACHIEVE MANUFACTURERS FIGURES (STUFF NOT MANUFACTURERS FIGURES, THEY BRAG ABOUT IT's ECONOMY IN THE BROCHURE!)

For info I have owned two TDCI Mondeo's and they both averaged around 48mpg and 55+ on a run, and I flogged the ar** of them, exactly what you would expect. I owned a VW powered Galaxy TDCI and it averaged a comfortable 44/45 mpg with more achievable + it weighs 2 ton. I owned a Diesel Honda CRV before this Guzzler and it averaged a comfortable 46 And like I said, all of my petrol's have and still do (we have 2) better than combined figure. NON DPF ENGINED CARS WILL ACHIEVE CLAIMED FIGURES UNLESS YOU HAVE A LEAD FOOT AND DRIVE AROUND TOWN ALL DAY.

The reason (boring I know) is DPF !!! You go on a long flat road, in still conditions, cruise at 50 mph and if a regenerative cycle is going on you will see the instant more constant 65 ish mpg drop regularly to about 33/35 for a few seconds then jump back up, THAT IS YOUR DIESEL BEING INJECTED INTO THE CYLINDER DURING EXHAUST STROKE TO INCINERATE THAT CRAZY FILTER. READ YOUR HANDBOOK, IT EVEN INFORMS YOU OF IT IN THERE IN NOT SO MANY WORDS!

I have tried the cruise on and off, also turned off the traction system, neither made any difference. For info my car has the latest software, new EGR, new injectors, starts first click and never emits any smoke.

I am convinced the re-generative process does not find its way onto the fuel test and your seeing results based on normal running, Impossible to achieve in the real world as you cannot stop the regen occuring, not that you would want to unless unless you remove the DPF as when causing back pressure through blocking with soot, you will have your con rods joining the radiator through the side of the block!

My mate has just got a new A3 Sport 170, He is keeping me informed, has covered only 1700 miles up to now and averaged 45mpg, he reset the computer the day he got it, as he knows all about this and he doesn't crawl around or believe in running in Diesels. He was considering a T180 Auris, but thought better of it, somehow think I would rather have the Audi!

I know what your saying - if you drive on the m-way and stick to 70 you will get around 41mpg. The t180 isn't great on economy above 60mph.

But as you keep saying it is the DPF. This toyota won an award for being the greenest diesel in its class which is down to the exhaust gas regeneration and the DPF soot trap which burns it off with diesel so it doesn't smoke.

No matter how much you say DPF it wont go away. The only thing that will change is if they reduce the amount of diesel injected by the 5th injector OR you sell the car and get another one.

Either way in a few years maybe even next year new guidelines are given to manufacturers to say that all new cars must make sure emissions are down to a certain level. Trade off is economy because the only current way to prevent soot is to burn it off and the only way to burn it off is to use diesel fuel.