Not Happy With The Handling

[tommyd1983]

Hi there all, ive had my celica gt4 wrc for about 4 months now and the handling isnt all that it should be, ive just had 2 change the right hand super strut which I thought wud make a difference but it hasnt. Even a megane sport left me the other wk at 140! Has anyone else had this promlem? Im from yorkshire/n.wales does anyone know where I could take it

[led-gt4]

Hi there all, ive had my celica gt4 wrc for about 4 months now and the handling isnt all that it should be, ive just had 2 change the right hand super strut which I thought wud make a difference but it hasnt. Even a megane sport left me the other wk at 140! Has anyone else had this promlem? Im from yorkshire/n.wales does anyone know where I could take it

a megane? hang your head in shame!!! lol i take the megane was tuned? wouldnt imagine that it could smoke a gt four!!

140? my four pulls the whole way to 165 but there isnt much more to go after that. all on private roads of course!!

and was this on twisty roads or something? and when u say the handling isnt all it should be, do u mean there is a problem or you wer just expecting more? is your car lowered? my four is lowered quite a bit. wish a knew the springs on it cause they are awesome!! never scrubs or anything and it is just solid!! at 140mph there is no play in it at all it just solid. ive drove a gt four with the tien adjustable suspension and it was really tight too. i cant fault the the handling on my four. def better than any scooby ive driven

[tommyd1983]

Hi there all, ive had my celica gt4 wrc for about 4 months now and the handling isnt all that it should be, ive just had 2 change the right hand super strut which I thought wud make a difference but it hasnt. Even a megane sport left me the other wk at 140! Has anyone else had this promlem? Im from yorkshire/n.wales does anyone know where I could take it

a megane? hang your head in shame!!! lol i take the megane was tuned? wouldnt imagine that it could smoke a gt four!!

140? my four pulls the whole way to 165 but there isnt much more to go after that. all on private roads of course!!

and was this on twisty roads or something? and when u say the handling isnt all it should be, do u mean there is a problem or you wer just expecting more? is your car lowered? my four is lowered quite a bit. wish a knew the springs on it cause they are awesome!! never scrubs or anything and it is just solid!! at 140mph there is no play in it at all it just solid. ive drove a gt four with the tien adjustable suspension and it was really tight too. i cant fault the the handling on my four. def better than any scooby ive driven

well i did lol, i think there is a big problem, when i go over road humps it sounds like there is alot of play like knocking, im a mechanic but dont really wanna mess about, need a specialist in toyota gt4 i think. Think i might get rid cant afford this 10 quid 4o miles lol plus ive just bought a motorbike which is twice as fast with no fuel worries lol

[led-gt4]

mate that sounds like the fig 8 bushes. im shocked that it got beat by a megane!! are you sure your four is running right? 0-60 times in the 5second region? is the car def reading in mph and it wasnt 140 kph? just thought it mite still b restricted? was just a thought.

either the megane must ave been tuned or you have a fault with your celica cause if i remember correctly they are about the same power as a leon cupra at about 225bhp. think the celica wud b lighter due to less safety and electrics etc and if ur four is a jap import it wud b sittin at 255bhp standard! an air filter and exhaust would prob add 15bhp. i would check for error codes and make sure your gt four isnt running in safe mode (if the collant level is low or water is low the celica wont use higher boost or something along those lines)

i know what ur sayin about the bikes, i like them too but i like the dryness of the gt four in the bad weather,which is less face it pretty much every day. lol

[tommyd1983]

mate that sounds like the fig 8 bushes. im shocked that it got beat by a megane!! are you sure your four is running right? 0-60 times in the 5second region? is the car def reading in mph and it wasnt 140 kph? just thought it mite still b restricted? was just a thought.

either the megane must ave been tuned or you have a fault with your celica cause if i remember correctly they are about the same power as a leon cupra at about 225bhp. think the celica wud b lighter due to less safety and electrics etc and if ur four is a jap import it wud b sittin at 255bhp standard! an air filter and exhaust would prob add 15bhp. i would check for error codes and make sure your gt four isnt running in safe mode (if the collant level is low or water is low the celica wont use higher boost or something along those lines)

i know what ur sayin about the bikes, i like them too but i like the dryness of the gt four in the bad weather,which is less face it pretty much every day. lol

Ye you are right the megane is about 225bhp and mine is an import with an air filter and exhaust so should be running at 270bhp and yes its in the 5 sec 0-60 region just dont understand the handling! I have looked into the suspension side of things and there is so much going on down there I dont want to change something which doesnt need it! Any ideas?

[damo746]

mate that sounds like the fig 8 bushes. im shocked that it got beat by a megane!! are you sure your four is running right? 0-60 times in the 5second region? is the car def reading in mph and it wasnt 140 kph? just thought it mite still b restricted? was just a thought.

either the megane must ave been tuned or you have a fault with your celica cause if i remember correctly they are about the same power as a leon cupra at about 225bhp. think the celica wud b lighter due to less safety and electrics etc and if ur four is a jap import it wud b sittin at 255bhp standard! an air filter and exhaust would prob add 15bhp. i would check for error codes and make sure your gt four isnt running in safe mode (if the collant level is low or water is low the celica wont use higher boost or something along those lines)

i know what ur sayin about the bikes, i like them too but i like the dryness of the gt four in the bad weather,which is less face it pretty much every day. lol

Ye you are right the megane is about 225bhp and mine is an import with an air filter and exhaust so should be running at 270bhp and yes its in the 5 sec 0-60 region just dont understand the handling! I have looked into the suspension side of things and there is so much going on down there I dont want to change something which doesnt need it! Any ideas?

On the banana arms where they mount into the subframe there are what r called crush tubes it might be worth having a look at these they r only a few quid from toyota and relatively easy to replace. I have just changed one on my 4 and it hasn't half made a difference to what it was other than that check your anti roll bar bushes. Uprated ones are only £30 from fensport for front and back and these dramatically changed the handling on my car as my old ones were shot.

[led-gt4]

jack it up and see how much play is in the wheel. i would guess its either the fig 8 bushes or the banana arms. if these wer replaced i would say it wud make a big difference. im still baffeled at how the megane kept up with you never mind beat you!! lol

[tommyd1983]

jack it up and see how much play is in the wheel. i would guess its either the fig 8 bushes or the banana arms. if these wer replaced i would say it wud make a big difference. im still baffeled at how the megane kept up with you never mind beat you!! lol

Aww thanks I will get it in the workshop in the next few days. Well power wise i was catching him but he was flying around the bends on the dual carridge way were as i wasnt very confident on my handling at this speed! Another thing i hav noticed is say im driving down an un even road i hit something as little as a cat eye i really gotta work hard 2 keep her in control. This tells me its gotta b something major

[led-gt4]

jack it up and see how much play is in the wheel. i would guess its either the fig 8 bushes or the banana arms. if these wer replaced i would say it wud make a big difference. im still baffeled at how the megane kept up with you never mind beat you!! lol

Aww thanks I will get it in the workshop in the next few days. Well power wise i was catching him but he was flying around the bends on the dual carridge way were as i wasnt very confident on my handling at this speed! Another thing i hav noticed is say im driving down an un even road i hit something as little as a cat eye i really gotta work hard 2 keep her in control. This tells me its gotta b something major

there is something seriously not right there if u finding it hard to control. has the car ever been damaged. get the wheels checked and balanced and check the fig 8 etc that have been mentioned before. the four should come into its own on twisty roads! in fact i go lookin for the twisty roads as my celica feels as if its on rails!

[tommyd1983]

jack it up and see how much play is in the wheel. i would guess its either the fig 8 bushes or the banana arms. if these wer replaced i would say it wud make a big difference. im still baffeled at how the megane kept up with you never mind beat you!! lol

Aww thanks I will get it in the workshop in the next few days. Well power wise i was catching him but he was flying around the bends on the dual carridge way were as i wasnt very confident on my handling at this speed! Another thing i hav noticed is say im driving down an un even road i hit something as little as a cat eye i really gotta work hard 2 keep her in control. This tells me its gotta b something major

there is something seriously not right there if u finding it hard to control. has the car ever been damaged. get the wheels checked and balanced and check the fig 8 etc that have been mentioned before. the four should come into its own on twisty roads! in fact i go lookin for the twisty roads as my celica feels as if its on rails!

No dont get me wrong the handling is much better than the new shape celica 190 i had before but i really really gotta work hard for it. No it never been in a smash so im guessing it is either the balancing, fig 8 or banana arms. But thanks for all the info i will keep you posted cheers

[Sketchy]

This is probably one of the only downfalls of the ST205, when the suspension starts to fail. Essential the strut is split into four sections

The Front Arm and Camber Control Link(Fig 8)

The Rear Control Arm (Banana Bar)

The Hub/Steering Knuckle

The Strut

The problem is that there are alot of ball joints connecting the system together which tend to wear and cause wandering etc like your experiencing. Some diagnoses tips below

First the easiest the Banana arm.

This bit is pretty much fine normally and will last forever, the only problem is the bush which used to connect it to the front subframe, people refer to it as a crush tube as it's designed to break up under hard impact to save the shock from being transfered to the subframe/mount. The result of this is that the link is then flexiable.

Aside just taking it out and checking for damage the best way to check is as follows.

With the car on the ground get someone with a bit of muscle to try and move the front where in a backward/forwards motion looking from the size of the car. If there is any movement then chances are the bush has gone and needs replacing. This check must be done with the car on the ground if you jack it up then the weight of the wheel/strut is transfered to the mount and masks the movement.

*Please note if replacing the bush is tapered and needs to be fitted from above, i.e. the subframe must be dropped to fit.If you don't fit it in the correct orientation it will just break again pretty much straight away.*

Next the Front Arm/Camber Control Link(fig8)

The Front arm bolts to the subframe at one end then the bottom of the Kuckle via the camber plate at the other end. At about the middle there is a ball joint connecting it to the Camber Control link(fig 8) which in turn is connected via another ball joint to the bottom of the suspension strut. The problem is either of these ball joints may have worn nescessitating the replace of either or both parts.

Best way to check this is jack the car up and remove the wheel, get Mr T from last test to grab hold of the brake caliper and try to move it in an up and rearwards sort of direction. While this is being done check the ball joints between the front arm and fig 8, and the fig 8/strut for play and replace as necessary.

Steering Knucle/Hub.

Obviously this contains the wheel bearing if this is shot then it won't help so check for hub/wheel movement as normal, only a very tiny amount is required to cause quite a bit issue with the superstrut setup so be very causious of mechanics who are used to normal mac strut setups saying their is play but within tolerance, which I've hear before from other owners...

Other than that the knucle is basically a lump of metal, with the camber plate bolted to the bottom which connects it to the front and rear arms so check bolts for correct torque.

Strut

Ok the main bit this is where the damper and spring sits. It mounts to the car at the top via a rubber top mount as normal so check the mount for fatigue and replace as necessary.

The strut then mounts to the fig8 via a ball joint as described above, but also connects to the top of the steering knucle via another ball joint.

The upper ball joint can be replaced independantly of the struct/knucle so check for any play in the knucle/strut ball joint and replace if necessary.

Aside from that there's really only the anti-roll bar bushes which if in a bad way can make quite a difference when replaced.

Another thing worth checking is your tyre size, stock size is 205/50 R16 and while bigger rims and wider tyres look nice they don't always have the best effect on handling on the road. 225/45 ZR16 for example like I have a great on track and well layed roads but tend to tramline quite a bit on bad road surfaces, e.g. lorry tracks on the inside lane of motorways can be interesting...

Once you've checked all that it's time to look else where i.e. wheel alightment, chasis twist, and also rear suspension state.

Good Luck ;)

[Jiffy]

Good post. Back to the bit about tyre size, isn't the standard tyre size on an ST205 215/50r16 rather than 205/50r16, that's what i have all round on mine. But when it comes time to change my tyres i'll be putting on 225/50r16 or 225/45r16, on the standard later spec 6 spoke rims. Just because there's more choice of tyres and they are cheaper.

[Sketchy]

Good post. Back to the bit about tyre size, isn't the standard tyre size on an ST205 215/50r16 rather than 205/50r16, that's what i have all round on mine. But when it comes time to change my tyres i'll be putting on 225/50r16 or 225/45r16, on the standard later spec 6 spoke rims. Just because there's more choice of tyres and they are cheaper.

Congratulations you get the prize for spotting the purposeful mistake...

Stock size was indead 215/50R16.

Most people changed to 205 as 215's are fairly rare and tend to cost more.

If you going for a 225 get the 45 profile. 50's will have a huge sidewall and feel all squishy unless you put loads of pressure in them. Also the higher profile will make your rims look tiny.