Rav4 Xtr 2005 - Ipod - Headunit Is 58812

[clixby]

I have a 55 reg RAV4 XTR.

The model number of the headunit is 58812.

I really want to use my iPhone with it, but not for its phone functions, simply as a music player.

I've read lots of bits on here regarding iPod kits etc.

I'd like simply to have a 3.5mm jack available that would then play through my stereo.

This would fit my iPhone, and any other generic mp3 player.

I dont need to know the song names etc on the stereo.

Im not that bothered about it charging it at the same time, Im just after the music really.

Does anyone know the best way to do this?

Thanks in advance.

[chatman]

Welcome to TOC clixby....

Most new topics like this are available at the top of the RAV4 section...CLICK HERE

Take a look at Anchorman's posting regarding the Ipod installation...CLICK HERE

[anchorman]

Hi clixby, welcome to the club.

I asked this question of one of our electronics gurus, shcm.

I don't know much about electronics but he said it would be heavy going (went on about data buses when I didn't ask about public transport :) ). I know what you mean though, it seams the most obvious and annoying ommision that Toyota have missed. They have it on US RAVs!

[bothwell_buyer]

Is it not a simple case of wiring into the amplifier input, as an auxiliary input?

Don't get this problem with my Landrover - its too loud to bother about music or anything like that!

[anchorman]

Is it not a simple case of wiring into the amplifier input, as an auxiliary input?

Don't get this problem with my Landrover - its too loud to bother about music or anything like that!

Dont try it with the LR wireless or you could break the winding mechanism for the mainspring then you can forget listening to the Lord Haw Haw half hour tonight! shcm gave what looked and sounded to an electronics neanderthal like me, was a very valid explanation. The words were far too big for it not to be true. However bothy I'll ask Dave m if you can try it on his.

Dave, you know your new car?...................

[chatman]

Is it not a simple case of wiring into the amplifier input, as an auxiliary input?

Don't get this problem with my Landrover - its too loud to bother about music or anything like that!

Dont try it with the LR wireless or you could break the winding mechanism for the mainspring then you can forget listening to the Lord Haw Haw half hour tonight! shcm gave what looked and sounded to an electronics neanderthal like me, was a very valid explanation. The words were far too big for it not to be true. However bothy I'll ask Dave m if you can try it on his.

Dave, you know your new car?...................

Do you splice the RED wire or the Blue :g:

[Hoovie]

FWIW, I fitted a Dension ICE>Link Plus to my 2005 RAV4 with the 58812 Head Unit.

I think it is worth having a unit that connects in and works with the head unit/sterring wheel controls rather then just relaying the sound throught the Speakers - which is what you would really get with just an Aux-In solution - as you will be able to control it a lot, lot, better

[bothwell_buyer]

FWIW, I fitted a Dension ICE>Link Plus to my 2005 RAV4 with the 58812 Head Unit.

I think it is worth having a unit that connects in and works with the head unit/sterring wheel controls rather then just relaying the sound throught the speakers - which is what you would really get with just an Aux-In solution - as you will be able to control it a lot, lot, better

The only control I have on the steering wheel is the horn :wacko:

[nige1]

I have a 55 reg RAV4 XTR.

The model number of the headunit is 58812.

I really want to use my iPhone with it, but not for its phone functions, simply as a music player.

I've read lots of bits on here regarding iPod kits etc.

I'd like simply to have a 3.5mm jack available that would then play through my stereo.

This would fit my iPhone, and any other generic mp3 player.

I dont need to know the song names etc on the stereo.

Im not that bothered about it charging it at the same time, Im just after the music really.

Does anyone know the best way to do this?

Thanks in advance.

[shcm]

Is it not a simple case of wiring into the amplifier input, as an auxiliary input?

Don't get this problem with my Landrover - its too loud to bother about music or anything like that!

Dont try it with the LR wireless or you could break the winding mechanism for the mainspring then you can forget listening to the Lord Haw Haw half hour tonight! shcm gave what looked and sounded to an electronics neanderthal like me, was a very valid explanation. The words were far too big for it not to be true. However bothy I'll ask Dave m if you can try it on his.

Dave, you know your new car?...................

OK,

Sometimes a picture helps. Here's a simplified version of what I believe is going on. Apologies if I'm stating the *****ing obvious. I will be to some on here I expect.

Yes, there are some analogue audio "line in" signals on the the back of the head unit, but I believe you still have to mess about with the data side of things.

Toyota has a thing I believe is called AVC-LAN. For this explanation, the two important bits of this are the thing I've labelled "Analogue Audio Bus" - i.e. the "line in" mentioned above and the IEBUS.

For in depth details, this guy has done some great work on reverse engineering some of the Toyota Stuff:

http://www.softservice.com.pl/corolla/avc/avclan.php

The IEBUS is a bit like a CAN bus, but slower. Perhaps a half-way house between CAN and LIN is a better analogy. The IEBUS allows the head unit to do things like:

• Detect which external units are available in the system e.g. CD Changer, DAB Receiver etc
  
• Control each unit when selected by the head unit buttons or steering wheel controls. e.g. do such things as tell the CD changer to play, change disk, stop, mute and pause when RDS traffic announcements are in progress etc.
  
• Request info from each unit, e.g. status, CD text from the CD changer etc.
  

Each external unit has a unique ID. For an external unit to be used with a specific model of Toyota head unit, the head unit has to know about that unit and its ID in advance and how to deal with it. i.e. it has to be hard coded into the head unit's software.

For the ipod adapter, it has been given the same ID as a CD changer and pretends to be a CD changer to the head unit. It translates all its "CD changer" communication with the head unit via the IEBUS, into stuff the ipod can understand and vice versa. That's how head units that understand and ask for CD text, get the playing ipod song name onto the head unit display.

The above example shows an ipod interface and CD changer connected to the bus at the same time. This is wrong as they both have the same ID which would screw the bus operation. I've shown it just to get the general idea of how it works.

Also, for example, that's why some head units can't handle say a DAB receiver and CD changer together because the DAB unit may have been given the CD changer ID during design, or the head unit may not know about the DAB receiver ID, I believe.

The third party "Aux in" adapters also pretend to be CD Changers like the ipod adapter does, which keeps the IEBUS side of things happy and they then bring those "analogue audio bus" signals out to sockets, so you can plug any sound source in.

Still with me?

OK, so, to get the head unit to take any notice of those "line in signals", i.e. the "Analogue audio bus", you have to have something connected externally to the IEBUS to fool the head unit.

It maybe that those L and R switches I've shown in the head unit aren't actually there and if you connected an audio source straight to them, you'd get it mixed with whatever sound source was selected in the head unit at the time (i.e. tuner or CD). I think I've messed with that in the past, but I can't remember what the result was! Either way, to get the head unit to mute its internal audio source (CD or tuner), so that you only hear the "line in" input, you have to play with the IEBUS again anyway, I believe.

Yes, an alternative is to hack the internals of the head unit, but that would be a really un-elegant brain dead solution IMHO.

Now, coming back to the question Anchorman asked. Can you rig up a "line in"? Well, can you do a little experiment for me? When your ipod is not connected to your ipod adapter, can you still select it (i.e. select CDCH) with the head unit?

I suspect you can, but then does it give a "No disk" error similar to what a genuine CD changer would do with no disks loaded, or does it think it is playing something? I'm expecting the "No disk" error, but if not, then you might be in luck and there could be a relatively simple way to do it. ;)

clixby - I think you question was already answered? aux adapter or Denison.

Dave - I would politely tell them to ***** off :D

Cheers

[dave.m]

[quote name='bothwell_buyer' post='740271' However bothy I'll ask Dave m if you can try it on his.

Dave, you know your new car?...................

Dave - I would politely tell them to ***** off :D

Cheers

Splicing ?

Red to Red.

Black to Black.

Blue to F^*k

[Hoovie]

..... When your ipod is not connected to your ipod adapter, can you still select it (i.e. select CDCH) with the head unit?

I suspect you can, but then does it give a "No disk" error similar to what a genuine CD changer would do with no disks loaded, or does it think it is playing something? I'm expecting the "No disk" error, but if not, then you might be in luck and there could be a relatively simple way to do it. ;)

Without anything connected to the Changer connector, the CD button just selects the single-slot CD in the head unit.

When the Dension ICE>Link is fitted, the CD button on the head unit toggles between the single-slot and the device connected to the CD Changer.

The Dension ICE>Link is actually seen as a Mini-Disc Changer rather then a CD Changer (don't know if that makes any difference to what is shown on display/how it reacts?)

If I try to use the Dension ICE>Link without the iPod in the cradle, when the CD button is pressed, the display says something like "MD 1-99". It is possible to use the up and down buttons (1 & 2) to go through all 6 'virtual slots' of the ICE>Link and the time counter counts up until it gets to 0'09 seconds and then goes back to 0'00.

The DISP button (3) shows "Aux x" for disk - where x is the virtual slot chosen.

So.....all in all, I would guess the Dension ICE>Link is effectively seen by the unit as a fully loaded MD Changer no matter if the iPod is in cradle or not

Re the Dension ICE>Link - Supposedly there is no Toyota version of it if you go to places like Halfords or even the Dension ICE>Link website (unless they have updated it).

Text display is meant to be limited to 12 characters for disc and track data (display showing first 8 initally, then flipping to next 4, and then reverting back to first 8)

My first one actually showed 16 characters, but went wrong after a couple of months; the replacement must have been a different firmware and had the usual 12 character limit.

[phlipp]

I know the techie geek bit is half the fun but wouldn't one of those radio transmitting units that you plug into an i-pod do the job as well?

[shcm]

I know the techie geek bit is half the fun but wouldn't one of those radio transmitting units that you plug into an i-pod do the job as well?

Nah, the techie geek stuff is ALL the fun. :D. Your absolutely right, I'm sure it would work Personally, I'm not a great fan of FM modulators though. You'll get some reduction in quality, though probably not enough for most people to notice or care. It's a nice easy "fits all" solution though. The other thing is you'd loose the ability to get the music interrupted by RDS Traffic voice announcements. Some might consider that a bonus! I'm not sure how many people actually use it or want it.

So.....all in all, I would guess the Dension ICE>Link is effectively seen by the unit as a fully loaded MD Changer no matter if the iPod is in cradle or not

Thanks for the info Hoovie. So at least with the ICE>Link it looks like there's a good chance the head unit could be expecting audio off the bus even without the ipod connected to the adapter. I wonder if the Toyota ipod adapter does something similar?

Anyway, I'm thinking that you could possible use the ipod adapter as an ipod interface or aux in (not both together!).

I don't own an ipod, but maybe one of these adapters on this site would work for an aux in function via the ipod adapter:

http://home.swipnet.se/ridax/connector.htm.

Those connectors look a bit expensive, just for a connector, but there might be some others on that site that could be wired together to do something similar, particularly as the ipod pin out is reasonably well known. e.g.-

http://ipodlinux.org/Dock_Connector

This would effectively be connecting the "aux in" in at point A in the above diagram. There may still be a potential pit fall with that, in that maybe the ipod adapter doesn't route audio from the ipod on to the bus, if the ipod adapter can't communicate with the ipod. I'm fairly certain that making a "aux in" connection in at point B, would overcome that, provided the ipod adapter was still on the bus to communicate with the head unit, but without the ipod connected.

So, if Anchorman wants a line-in and the Toyota adapter behaves like the Dension, then it might be possible relatively cheaply, if you've already got an ipod adapter. There would be no steering wheel controls etc of what ever you are feeding to the line in of course.

All speculation, anyway, would have to do a few tests to confirm it.

Yep, Toyota should have fitted a line in as standard. They do it in other markets and other VMs do it, but I do wonder whether part of it is to stop people doing stupid things like sticking stuff in it they shouldn't (11kV for instance :D), blowing up the head unit and then making a warranty claim, which costs Mr T and his suppliers money.

No, obviously its so they can sell you an adapter isn't it and make more cash. Probably both!

Cheers

(Geek and proud of it!) :D

[Hoovie]

I know the techie geek bit is half the fun but wouldn't one of those radio transmitting units that you plug into an i-pod do the job as well?

Simple answer - no, they are absolute pants! :ffs:

I tried that before I went to the expense of buying the Dension unit and found the only way I could get any reception from it was to keep the iPod in a shirt pocket AND upside down so it was - presumably - as near to the ariel lead as possible.

And I bought the market leading one as well - total waste of money :censor:

[anchorman]

The US models have the aux' in jack conveniently placed in the bottom of the centre console box.

I've got one of those fm thingy's and I wasn't very impressed either. Depends how fussy you are I suppose.

[Hoovie]

I love the instructions yanks seem to need.....

'To adjust the volume, turn the "PWR-VOL" knob'

So that's what that little do-hickey is for, Cleatus

[chatman]

I love the instructions yanks seem to need.....

'To adjust the volume, turn the "PWR-VOL" knob'

So that's what that little do-hickey is for, Cleatus

Best one I like is on there wing mirrors and rear view mirror...

"The Objects in This Mirror are Behind you" :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Hoovie]

Or on a bathroom mirror ....

"You do not have a twin, that is YOU you are looking at"

Ok, I made that one up (I hope )

[Robert6920]

Hey, but aren't our erstwhile colonial colleagues having the last laugh - after all, they've got a Rav4 with an Aux connector...

[chatman]

Hey, but aren't our erstwhile colonial colleagues having the last laugh - after all, they've got a Rav4 with an Aux connector...

Yea but what's the bet they don't know it's there :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Their still trying to work out RTFM part......