Tracking Problems!

[cc.gibson]

Hi All,

I've just had to book my car in as in order to make it go straight the steering wheel has to be about 10-15 degrees turned to the left. If I let go of the wheel the car stays going straight and there are no actual problems steering, but it appeas that the steering wheel is out of alignment with the actual wheels. I'm 99% sure i haven't hit anything, including pot holes, curbs etc and as I've only had the car 3 months I'm not sure if it's always been like that and I've just been enjoying the driving too much to notice it!

Anyway, the woman on the phone said it was the likely to be the tracking! Not too clued up on cars but sounds about right! Does anyone have any idea and more importantly is it likely to be covered by the warranty, and if not how much am i looking at!

Cheers

Chris

[bothwell_buyer]

If this has happened since you got the car then something has caused it - normally it can be an indication of the tracking out, say following the replacement of a steering joint.

You haven't been in the habit of removing the steering wheel to avoid theft???

If the car is running straight ahead, you'd tend to expect that with 4 wheel drive anyway, but might notice change when braking or coasting.

Tyre wear is the biggest loss.

Cost of checking tracking - minutes!

[chatman]

Cost of checking tracking - minutes!

Cost me £24.99 last time I had it done.......

[mike xt-r]

Hi, wasn't there a post about someone sucsesfully rejecting a T180 that kept pulling to the left that they couldn't cure. If your rav goes in a staight line and its just where the wheel points its a simple job done by adjusing the track rods, if your rav wants to turn left or right all the time then you need a 4 wheel geometry set up,

[anchorman]

Its an age old problem. Wide tyres show slight descrepancies as shoulder wear so the owner takes it to quick fit where a semi skilled person sets about making an adjustment. However, an important requirement of changing the tracking is that both sides are adjusted equally. If you shorten or lengthen one side it has the effect of feeding the rack past the column. The effect is that you have to now turn the wheel off centre to correct the position.

IF you are confident the tracking is not out, you can put it right yourself but its fiddly. Let me know if you want me to describe the process.

[cc.gibson]

Thanks for the offer Anchorman, but I'm not sure I'm up to anything too complicated - What sort of level of understanding and mechanical competance do you need - any exactly how badly could I muck things up?

I had the clutch replaced about a fortnight ago (at the dealership where i've booked it in a week on Saturday for the steering), could they have done sometning then to do this (seems like a bit of a coincidence to me!)

Thanks

[bjw]

This is an old problem !!! my opinion is the dealer will just say its not covered by the warranty as you must have hit the kerb and knocked the alignment out .

Usually alignment is checked free of charge you have to pay if it needs adjusting

Tracking will cause uneven tyre wear and if its not done will work more costly in the long run

[TheNissanMan]

Can often be something as daft as tyre pressures causing the car to pull, if it is tracking it will very rarely be carried out under warranty as said it could have been kerbed, run over a pebble etc...

[moonstone mart]

If the clutch has been done then the subframe WILL have been off. Therefore the rack will have been unbolted to drop the subframe and not bolted back in exactly the same place - this will be the reason the wheel isnt quite dead on.

With this in mind they 'should' do the alignment for free but as said above they may try and pin blame on you and ask for payment stating you may have knocked it on the kerb etc.

Done many a 6 speed clutch/input shaft seal (reqs 'box out) and the geometry is rarely dead on after it all goes back together and reqs some alignment.

Mart.

[bothwell_buyer]

If the clutch has been done then the subframe WILL have been off. Therefore the rack will have been unbolted to drop the subframe and not bolted back in exactly the same place - this will be the reason the wheel isnt quite dead on.

With this in mind they 'should' do the alignment for free but as said above they may try and pin blame on you and ask for payment stating you may have knocked it on the kerb etc.

Done many a 6 speed clutch/input shaft seal (reqs 'box out) and the geometry is rarely dead on after it all goes back together and reqs some alignment.

Mart.

Weel said that man/Mart!

Obviously the 2 are linked - back to the garage an bomb the b$%^&*#$

[cc.gibson]

Many thanks for all the advice lads (and lasses)!

Will definately be mentioning the clutch before they start work on it and explaining what I've found out after asking the experts (e.g. you lot!) about the effect the clutch replacement may have had!

Yet again, TOC to the rescue!

Cheers :D

[anchorman]

If the clutch has been done then the subframe WILL have been off. Therefore the rack will have been unbolted to drop the subframe and not bolted back in exactly the same place - this will be the reason the wheel isnt quite dead on.

With this in mind they 'should' do the alignment for free but as said above they may try and pin blame on you and ask for payment stating you may have knocked it on the kerb etc.

Done many a 6 speed clutch/input shaft seal (reqs 'box out) and the geometry is rarely dead on after it all goes back together and reqs some alignment.

Mart.

Mart

Tell me more!

What is the problem with the seal?

[moonstone mart]

If the clutch has been done then the subframe WILL have been off. Therefore the rack will have been unbolted to drop the subframe and not bolted back in exactly the same place - this will be the reason the wheel isnt quite dead on.

With this in mind they 'should' do the alignment for free but as said above they may try and pin blame on you and ask for payment stating you may have knocked it on the kerb etc.

Done many a 6 speed clutch/input shaft seal (reqs 'box out) and the geometry is rarely dead on after it all goes back together and reqs some alignment.

Mart.

Mart

Tell me more!

What is the problem with the seal?

I will indeed tell you more.

The problem is with the 6 speed diesel 'box - input shaft seal leaking trans fluid out and into the bellhousing.

Seen plenty of them now when servicing - the oil collects around the bottom of the 'box. Sometimes just a little bit of oil and other time quite alot.

This doesnt mean every 6 speed 'box owner needs to panic as alot dont leak at all. lol.

To see it you have to poke a torch into the massive undershield.

Obviously if it is leaking badly then the oil will contaminate the clutch cover and plate - requiring replacement ;)

Its a pretty big job as regards to what you have to remove to get the box out but its not unpleasant. I quite like doing them.

The box is then stripped down and a new seal fitted.

Mart.

[anchorman]

If the clutch has been done then the subframe WILL have been off. Therefore the rack will have been unbolted to drop the subframe and not bolted back in exactly the same place - this will be the reason the wheel isnt quite dead on.

With this in mind they 'should' do the alignment for free but as said above they may try and pin blame on you and ask for payment stating you may have knocked it on the kerb etc.

Done many a 6 speed clutch/input shaft seal (reqs 'box out) and the geometry is rarely dead on after it all goes back together and reqs some alignment.

Mart.

Mart

Tell me more!

What is the problem with the seal?

I will indeed tell you more.

The problem is with the 6 speed diesel 'box - input shaft seal leaking trans fluid out and into the bellhousing.

Seen plenty of them now when servicing - the oil collects around the bottom of the 'box. Sometimes just a little bit of oil and other time quite alot.

This doesnt mean every 6 speed 'box owner needs to panic as alot dont leak at all. lol.

To see it you have to poke a torch into the massive undershield.

Obviously if it is leaking badly then the oil will contaminate the clutch cover and plate - requiring replacement ;)

Its a pretty big job as regards to what you have to remove to get the box out but its not unpleasant. I quite like doing them.

The box is then stripped down and a new seal fitted.

Mart.

Mart

Thanks. What causes it? Is it a modified seal or is it something that could re-occur. Is it sometimes described as a sump leak with a repair time of around 18 hours?

The reason I ask is that somebody I know was told of a sump leak but there was no oil leaking from the sump - never really paid any attention to the bell housing but I think we would have seen it if it was significant.

Cheers

[moonstone mart]

Not sure if the new part is modified in any way (will try find out monday if part numbers are different to standard etc)

I think its poss it could re-occur but not seen one start again since new seal fitment.

The leak does sometimes look as if the sump could be leaking from the nearside as you have the rubber/foam insulator that covers the gap between 'box and sump, which is bolted to brackets next to the sump so if the leak is bad enough the sump gets oily too.

Not done many sump reseals on RAV4's compared to the amount done on the avensis Diesels though.

Mart.

[mike xt-r]

Thanks for the bad news Moonstone Mart. Dose this seal issue affect all diesel 6 speed models or just the T180, and is it any specific year model? what mileage is this showing up? How many have you done? thanks Mike

[moonstone mart]

Thanks for the bad news Moonstone Mart. Dose this seal issue affect all diesel 6 speed models or just the T180, and is it any specific year model? what mileage is this showing up? How many have you done? thanks Mike

Mike,

It affects any of the 6 speed diesels - all got the same 'box in them. Dont think its any specific year either.

So far i havent seen it happening around a certain mileage - as i said above some do it/some dont.

Its also not anything to panic about but would need to be sorted by the dealership if they notice it happening.

I personally have done approx 5 or so i think so far (3 of these were Avensis). A couple of the other guys have done around the same amount too.

Mart.

[duncerduncs]

Its also not anything to panic about but would need to be sorted by the dealership if they notice it happening.

As Mart says, I don't think we all need to drive off to our local dealer and demand that our gearboxes get checked... Am I right to think that there would be a small oil leak from underneath the car to indicate the problem?

I've got my 20k on Monday, so I'll interrogate (sorry ask ) to see how many my local dealer has done.

[moonstone mart]

Its also not anything to panic about but would need to be sorted by the dealership if they notice it happening.

As Mart says, I don't think we all need to drive off to our local dealer and demand that our gearboxes get checked... Am I right to think that there would be a small oil leak from underneath the car to indicate the problem?

I've got my 20k on Monday, so I'll interrogate (sorry ask ) to see how many my local dealer has done.

The oil doesnt always leak badly enough for it to reach the ground. It usually just collects on the bottom of the gearbox/around the sump area.

If any does drip from the gearbox it ends up on the undershield anyway :)

Mart.

[anchorman]

Its also not anything to panic about but would need to be sorted by the dealership if they notice it happening.

As Mart says, I don't think we all need to drive off to our local dealer and demand that our gearboxes get checked... Am I right to think that there would be a small oil leak from underneath the car to indicate the problem?

I've got my 20k on Monday, so I'll interrogate (sorry ask ) to see how many my local dealer has done.

The oil doesnt always leak badly enough for it to reach the ground. It usually just collects on the bottom of the gearbox/around the sump area.

If any does drip from the gearbox it ends up on the undershield anyway :)

Mart.

Well Mart I think the cat is well and truly amongst the pigeons (including bothy's pigeon). I'm not about to panic over this issue but I just like to know what the possible implications of owning one of these things are. A couple more questions. Having read through the gearbox removal instructions it all goes OK until the bit where it very calmly says remove the engine and gearbox assembly (which does indeed require the steering column to be match marked and removed). I have done many clutches and gearboxes and never resorted to taking the complete assembly out so tell me - do you think it really needs the engine out or is that the Toyota way of reducing the risk of anything else getting damaged?

Secondly, without putting yourself in a compromising position, is there anything else that is popping up with these 4.3s?

Cheers

[stu0500]

Tracking is only covered under the warranty up untill 1000 miles. its a serviceable item. pot-holes cambers etc know it out. ive worked for VW,kia,fiat,renault and im now Nissan and all the pollicys are the same.

[bothwell_buyer]

Tracking is only covered under the warranty up untill 1000 miles. its a serviceable item. pot-holes cambers etc know it out. ive worked for VW,kia,fiat,renault and im now Nissan and all the pollicys are the same.

You're right. However when its a symptom following a front end down job, then its the garages fault!

[jude]

I had a similar problem with my T180.

Had to have drive shaft replaced, shortly after that the tracking went, Mr T said it was my fault. Tried to argue that it wasn't as I never kerbed the car and I am always careful to avoid potholes. Upshot was £200 each for 2 new front tyres and £73 quid for tracking check & adjustment!!

I still think it was due to having new drive shaft but can't prove it. :(

[bothwell_buyer]

I had a similar problem with my T180.

Had to have drive shaft replaced, shortly after that the tracking went, Mr T said it was my fault. Tried to argue that it wasn't as I never kerbed the car and I am always careful to avoid potholes. Upshot was £200 each for 2 new front tyres and £73 quid for tracking check & adjustment!!

I still think it was due to having new drive shaft but can't prove it. :(

Name and shame! There must be enuf of us here now to make Mr T sit up/waken up. I mean - all that money on mag and newspaper ads!!!!

[cc.gibson]

Jude, I'd not be happy with that at all mate!!!! How much fuss did you kick up when it happened? - Worryingly you're in my sort of area - which garage did you use?

I'll wait till Saturday before making any comments about the particular dealership my Rav's going into for the 'repair' to the steering, but if they try to charge me a penny to fix something they've done whilst changing the clutch they've got another thing coming!!