T180 Disappointment

[The Iceman]

I've had her almost a month now and I must say I'm a little disappointed. My 1st choice after test driving my shortlist was the new Freelander which was a much better drive imo but I decided to buy with my head not my heart and went for the rock solid reliability reputation of Toyota, that and cheaper running costs and a cracking deal from Toyota. However, it would seem from reading through the forum that the T180 has more reliability issues than any Landrover. I think the handling is very poor, probably due to the 18" wheels, I have no confidence in throwing her into a corner, plenty of poke in the engine though. The handsfree system doesn't always work, and of the three times I've used the satnav it has only recognised the street once, even though the streets not listed were clearly visible on the screen after I'd found my own way there. I think my advice to potential T180 buyers would be go for the xtr with leather interior.

[DaisyFitz]

You and me both! I live in the countryside and the up and down, bendy B-roads do not suit the MPG! can get 40mpg on a lovely A road, but sadly, I go on these very rarely. Got lots of power, just daren't use it!

And then there are the tyres... I live insouth cumbria, nearest places I can get tyres fitted? Carlisle or Preston - both 70miles away! Grrrr. Spoke to local dealer at Grange about changing to regular tyres and the foam repair kit. Wouldn't be under warranty anymore. So gotta keep going with those stoopid RFTs. Double grrrr.

Wish I could have had an XTR...

[anchorman]

I would love a T180 but will not be held to ransom with those tyres. A couple of other points though. I seriously doubt that a new FL would even come close to the reliabilty of a RAV. I accept there are issues but quite honestly I would be scared to death of having a FL on my drive - I just see it as a liability. The other thing is the handling. I don't wish to contradict but the RAV has the best handling in the class and the 18" wheels should make it better not worse. I wonder if feels like it is no good when you could afford to push it harder?

The other items you have mentioned may well be correct - you would have to ask one of the others with those features.

I re-iterate, I have made my opinion of the tyres only being available through the Toyota network and I find the thought of it unethical, immoral and infuriating. We'll have a manufacturer telling us we can only buy fuel off them and need it adding by special equipment at a dealer next. It stinks and I'm not sure it complies with anti competitive laws.

[The Iceman]

Why would fitting 18" wheels improve handling?

[anchorman]

The actual rolling radius is virtually unchanged but the aspect ratio of the tyre is lowered.

17" (225/65) - The width is 225mm and the wall height is 65% = 146mm

18" (235/55) - The width is 235mm and the wall height is 55% = 129mm

This is a difference in tyre height of 17mm but the higher tyre will deform more so the important rolling radius (from the centre of the wheel to the road including the bulge in the tyre) is likely to be more like 13mm (or half inch in the strange tyre world of mixing units). It means that an 18" wheel with low profile tyres is the same diameter as a 17" wheel with high profile tyres but it is wider in the tread and stiffer in the walls. Because the diameter is unchanged things like speedo gearing and brake power can carry accross from T180 to the rest of the range OK.

Tyres that are wider and have a lower wall height improve the handling as there is less give and deformation of the walls. Cars that are really souped up like a BMW M series will have the biggest wheels they can accomodate but with a very low profile tyres, possibly 18 or 19 inch wheels with 235/35 ratio tyres.

[bitman]

nice low profile tires on those bumpy roads... ;)

[sywy]

The biggest issue I have with the T180 is the tyres, and that's not really a reliability thing, but more of a bad choice by Toyota. But that's another story, discussed loads of times on here.

Handling, I think is great for a car of this nature. As Anchorman says, it's supposed to be best in class, and I would tend to agree, having to drive 15-20 miles of twisty country roads every day to/from work.

Never had a problem with missing calls on the bluetooth handsfree kit with the 3 phones I have used with it.

Satnav is a bit poor tho. Nowhere as good as the TomTom products. But I have heard this with many other manufacturers built-in satnavs. EG: My bro-in-laws BMW 330i, who we were following to a wedding once, but got lost. So I had to get my TomTom out (was in my wife's car) which got us there without a problem. The main problem is that it does not do full postcodes!!

MPG is a bit of a disspointment. However, I was getting 20-22 in my old car, and anything above this was going to be a bonus to me. I'm currently getting between 32-36mpg on my normal daily commute, which is about 10 miles dual carraigeway, and 10 miles country roads.

It's by no means the perfect car. There are a few other things I don't like about it. But overall, I pretty happy with it (for now).

[bothwell_buyer]

I've had her almost a month now and I must say I'm a little disappointed. My 1st choice after test driving my shortlist was the new Freelander which was a much better drive imo but I decided to buy with my head not my heart and went for the rock solid reliability reputation of Toyota, that and cheaper running costs and a cracking deal from Toyota. However, it would seem from reading through the forum that the T180 has more reliability issues than any Landrover. I think the handling is very poor, probably due to the 18" wheels, I have no confidence in throwing her into a corner, plenty of poke in the engine though. The handsfree system doesn't always work, and of the three times I've used the satnav it has only recognised the street once, even though the streets not listed were clearly visible on the screen after I'd found my own way there. I think my advice to potential T180 buyers would be go for the xtr with leather interior.

Freelander - well my only foray into Landrover world is with the 1963 version - built like a tractor; behaves like a tractor; smells worse than a tractor; is slower than a tractor; and is as reliable as the closeness of the nearest breakdown lorry. I wouldn't trust it to go more than 5 miles. We use it to go for 3 miles.

As for the RAV, my feelings about the 3 door and 5 door are well expressed in previous posts.

However, in upgrading my brakes to 6 pot KAD racing brakes, we had to move up to 18" wheels. I don't use spacers. The stability is such that I am confident at running up to and beyond 100mph - and once I get the limiter removed, know that it will run up towards 140mph happily. Now for a 3 door short wheelbase car, this is more than pretty good. Especially as the car has not been lowered. I admit that the suspension has been stiffened, particularly at the back...but this is to try to keep the front wheels on the ground when doing sprint starts. Despite the wrong rear exhaust box choking the engines breathing, I managed a 15.4 second quarter mile 2 weeks ago. Now with a new box fitted, already on the street, I have found the acceleration fantastic and look forward to the next sprint bash.

As for cornering, with the 18" wheels, the road holding is immense. I have not yet managed to 'drift' the car at all as it just hugs the road....giving many a driver a surprise on roundabouts!! Country roads are exhilarating and with the 18" wheel and wider tyre, the benefit of the wider track comes into its own.

I know from my own RAV4 (number 1) that from the space in the wheel well, I could probably go up to 20" wheels. However, I want the car for acceleration and road holding as (unfortunately) I have found that the maximum road speed is somewhere under 100mph!!

I was running the RAV with 16" wheels previously and the standard 215/70 x 16 tyre. I now have a full set of 16" alloys spare - partly as they wouldn't fit the front calipers and partly as I'd never go back to 16" tyres....I have the Landrover for that!

So - I can't remember what car you were running with before the RAV T180. The RAV does take a little getting used to if you are moving from a car; but I have no hesitancy to throw my RAV around. All being well, I should have the beast down at Warrington next weekend and would be happy to let you have a run in it or chat about your 180. Incidentally, the mods to the suspension are spring assisters on the rear springs (ie the caravan towing type) and KONI adjustable shocks all round. We still have the rear bearings to replace; and the whole car is running with OEM bearings.

As regards satnav, I just go by the stars!! Then never ask when I get lost - its more fun! :lol:

[bitman]

i fully agree with that bothwell_buyer, i had a land rover from 1967 (series 2a) and it was the best vehicle i every had. :)

so easy to maintain and the parts are dead cheap! it likes a bit of fuel thou. i drove all over europe with it and it never had let me down.

[bothwell_buyer]

i fully agree with that bothwell_buyer, i had a land rover from 1967 (series 2a) and it was the best vehicle i every had. :)

so easy to maintain and the parts are dead cheap! it likes a bit of fuel thou. i drove all over europe with it and it never had let me down.

How many years did it take to get round Europe?? I manage 50mph downhill with a following 90mph gale!

[Plutus]

I've read elsewhere that larger wheels on SUV's = a BUMPIER ride. This is not handling - which to me means being able to go round corners faster (OK I don't know much).

Anyway, before I bought the RAV I had a temporary flirtation with an X3. The first I drove had 19" wheels and the ride was worse than Bothy's LR. No problem said salesperson (pc name), try the standard SE with 16" wheels - was much smoother.

Then when I realised I would need a second and a third mortgage to buy one I started looking at the RAV.

No SUV will ride as smoothly as a saloon but hey, that's not why you buy them.

[anchorman]

I think the rough ride comes from the low profile tyres, not the large wheels. They have very little give in them and can be as hard as a rock! However, they provide more positive handling. I did a quick trawl and found these;

http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/alloy-wheels.php

http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/bmw_wheels.html

http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/SidcFaq/Wheels

[bothwell_buyer]

Well, I'm not blessed with a new RAV. So I can't comment on the new seats. The seats from the 4.1 were/are next to rubbish. Most will have now disintegrated as the foam material will have degraded.

I removed the old original seats from number 1 and put in 2 racing seats. Not a lot of padding by any means, but as they provide a far better profile, I managed to do away with my spinal support and the seats provide a lot of physical body movement restriction = comfort.

Tyres - of course if you use low profile tyres then you sacrifice some 'comfort'. If you want comfort, buy a Rolls Royce or fit comfy seats! The Landrover I have has massive tyres, but I'd argue that they are far from comfort zone. The suspension for what it is is solid axle back and front..

Move to the RAV and we have independent suspension, with wheels and tyres which are a compromise between off-road and for 80% road use. The suspension make up is pretty much as most cars are.

I recover 22" low profile tyres from Range Rovers and haven't heard many complaints......?

[Hoovie]

I read/saw something about the BMW M3 (I think it was?) which was fitted with RunFlats and the general ride was terrible. When the 3 series was updated generally and run flats fitted as standard, the chassis was reworked in some way for run flats and that made a tremendous difference - some of those details may be wrong, but the essense is correct.

Makes me wonder if the RAV4 4.3 Chassis has been tuned for normal tyres, being fitted to the most sold models and the models with Run-Flats are paying the penalty?

[L2CJV]

I've had my T180 now for nearly 12 years, done some 115K miles. Great car for everyday use, originally bought as caravan tow car - hardly know there's a van at the back.

The run flat tyres problem - early on I had the special bands removed when fitting new tyres, just ordinary tyres on the wheels after that, no need for the special tyres. Bought a second hand Lexus wheel and tyre as a spare. The pressure sensors mean I can still be warned of a puncture.

I haven't seen this reported on anywhere - there is a fault with the original T180 engine. Mine failed at around 65K miles, long out of warranty! - However RAV provided and fitted a replacement engine free of charge, I was amazed as well as very grateful. Anyone looking for a second hand T180 should check that the engine has been replaced before buying.

Really, I have had no problems over the years except for batteries - these die every 5 years, within a few weeks of the 5 anniversary of replacement, very weird?

Also the cat clogged up recently, giving all sorts of errors messages - two hours at a Toyota dealer giving it two forced regeneration cycles sorted this.

[Heidfirst]

7 hours ago, L2CJV said:

I haven't seen this reported on anywhere - there is a fault with the original T180 engine. Mine failed at around 65K miles, long out of warranty! - However RAV provided and fitted a replacement engine free of charge, I was amazed as well as very grateful. Anyone looking for a second hand T180 should check that the engine has been replaced before buying.

Hi Chris, welcome to TOC 🙂

Where have you been? 😛 There are pages & pages on TOC about the AD series engine issues (to be fair it only develops in a small % of them although anecdotally the T180 may be most prone) ... iirc HonestJohn also mentions it etc. etc.