Will The Hybrid Magic Wear Thin?

[Flynn2]

Flynn2...............Whilst I appreciate the discussion and debate that makes this subject so interesting, I do feel that there is no room in the discussion for personal insults to other forum members.

Please moderate your personal insults to the other members who are contributing to a healthy discussion. :)

Yes I am sorry to detract from the argument :)

The constant debates on hybrid technology fascinate me as do those that slag off the Prius.

To those that slate the Prius.... for heavens sake get a life as there are worse looking cars on the road. Think on this, the Prius only has a 1500cc engine coupled to the electric motor, it manages to harness the wasted energy of the car's movement and stores in the batteries thus allowing that energy to be used to boost and assist the engine to give it the power output of a larger and higher cc unit. This is what I call good technology which makes use of energy that would otherwise be wasted. Get off the bandwagon that it has higher mpg and think more about the lower emissions per mile. Oh and that is cheaper to run as far as the car tax and, most likely, insurance is concerned. As far as recycling is concerned, all cars are recycled and the Prius will be treated in the same way with little or nothing wasted.

Now please consider this.... if hybrid technology was not the way forward does anyone really think that Toyota/Lexus would invest billions into their new range of cars? Toyota are not the only car makers looking down this route so that simply makes the argument in favour of hybrids much stronger. The car industry has to change as fossil fuels are depleted so we have to change with it.

Flynn2.... we would still like to know what car you drive

Steven, the Prius is overhyped. For Toyota it was a mere publicity stunt to earn their greedy heads money. It is unecessary to make a car with lower emissions because cars only account for 15% of emissions so they are low already. The batteries store energy from the brakes, okay, in much the same way that a turbo uses exhaust gases to spin up a turbine and force more air into the engine, so it isn't a new and shiny concept of using energy that would otherwise be wasted. Car tax is only an artificially created advantage by the government, who I would like to punch in the chops for their anti-car properganda. The batteries in the Prius cannot be recycled and leak all over the environment anyhow and take several million years to decompose. Toyota/Lexus are making a mistake, it's not unusual, their time will come. Fossil Fuels can be replaced by vegetable oil, so no problems there. I can't help but notice your hypocrasy in your car, but other than that I approve of off road vehicles, they are good looking in their own way ;) Weird name though, "invincible" is that the trim level or what?

I used to like sports cars at that age too, but they don't interest me much at all now. If I want speed, handling and good looks from a vehicle I'll just get another Fireblade

That's a bike not a car I guess you are one of those bikers who claim that you are "friendly to the environment" as well because a bike naturally uses a smaller engine A bike is just a frame on wheels, a car is far more than a bike. Cars>>>Bikes, end of story Bikes are not even on the same level as cars.

[Phoenix999]

Steven, the Prius is overhyped. For Toyota it was a mere publicity stunt to earn their greedy heads money. It is unecessary to make a car with lower emissions because cars only account for 15% of emissions so they are low already. The batteries store energy from the brakes, okay, in much the same way that a turbo uses exhaust gases to spin up a turbine and force more air into the engine, so it isn't a new and shiny concept of using energy that would otherwise be wasted. Car tax is only an artificially created advantage by the government, who I would like to punch in the chops for their anti-car properganda. The batteries in the Prius cannot be recycled and leak all over the environment anyhow and take several million years to decompose. Toyota/Lexus are making a mistake, it's not unusual, their time will come. Fossil Fuels can be replaced by vegetable oil, so no problems there. I can't help but notice your hypocrasy in your car, but other than that I approve of off road vehicles, they are good looking in their own way ;) Weird name though, "invincible" is that the trim level or what?

From your words above you appear to get your facts somewhat incorrect

Firstly, read my signature and get my name correct.... but you knew what you were typing anyway

Secondly, the Prius is not over-hyped. I suggest it is just your mistaken perception of the promotion that takes it as 'hype'.

Thirdly, ALL modern cars are able to be recycled and that does in fact include the Prius batteries. If you suggest different then post your evidence here ;)

Fourthly, So Toyota/Lexus are making a mistake. Obviously you have the marketing, foresight and engineering abilities to know far more than those at a multi-national corporation

Fifthly, vegetable oils could never be produced in enough quantities to replace fossil fuels and still leave enough food produce to feed the world population. I suggest you read the recent news to confirm this.

Sixthly, you use the word 'hypocrisy' regarding my choice of car. What am I saying to allow you to suggest such? I am simply making an argument for the Prius and not saying that big engines are bad. You appear to read things that are not typed

Lastly, as for the model name of my car. 'Invincible' is just that.... a model name! I guess that it is no different than the model name of your vehicle.... 'Tonka'.... get my drift ;)

I'll be looking forward to your chosen reply to what I have written here and I hope that you show yourself to be what you are.... whatever that is ;)

We still don't know what car you drive.... but then I guess that you will say that you own something like a BMW M5 or Ferrari F50

[Boro Sera]

I guess you are one of those bikers who claim that you are "friendly to the environment" as well because a bike naturally uses a smaller engine

Guess again

Loving all the assumptions you're trying to make, but yet again you have totally missed the point. you bang on about sports cars, citing performance and styling as the be all and end all - i merely pointed out that you can get 0-60 in 3 seconds, 150+ top speed and razor sharp handling for a couple of grand. I never mentioned that bikes were greener, just more fun and affordable than an equivalent performing car.

I don't ride bikes for environmental issues or cost effectiveness - just for fun.

[Flynn2]

Well I suggest that you open your eyes then :) As a car person I wouldn't go for a bike. The government just artificially curb the fun of cars and people like you just take it.

From your words above you appear to get your facts somewhat incorrect

Firstly, read my signature and get my name correct.... but you knew what you were typing anyway

It's not my fault you chose Steve L as a user name

Secondly, the Prius is not over-hyped. I suggest it is just your mistaken perception of the promotion that takes it as 'hype'.

Nope, it is your miss perception LITTLE BOY ^_^

Thirdly, ALL modern cars are able to be recycled and that does in fact include the Prius batteries. If you suggest different then post your evidence here

Yep as usual, baised towards the hippies.

Fourthly, So Toyota/Lexus are making a mistake. Obviously you have the marketing, foresight and engineering abilities to know far more than those at a multi-national corporation

Yes they are making a mistake. Who in their right mind would want a piddly little 1500cc backed up by a milk float motor

Fifthly, vegetable oils could never be produced in enough quantities to replace fossil fuels and still leave enough food produce to feed the world population. I suggest you read the recent news to confirm this.

The government can build sky scrapers thousands of metres high yet really narrow growing rape on all floors.

Sixthly, you use the word 'hypocrisy' regarding my choice of car. What am I saying to allow you to suggest such? I am simply making an argument for the Prius and not saying that big engines are bad. You appear to read things that are not typed

Why is that word in quotes you silly billy? The Prius is the kind of thing that people who do not know about cars would like. I have argued this point many a time but am tired of it now so I cannot choose a decent retort.

Lastly, as for the model name of my car. 'Invincible' is just that.... a model name! I guess that it is no different than the model name of your vehicle.... 'Tonka'.... get my drift

Hey!\ If I owned a car it would be real not a Tonka toy :censor:

I'll be looking forward to your chosen reply to what I have written here and I hope that you show yourself to be what you are.... whatever that is

We still don't know what car you drive.... but then I guess that you will say that you own something like a BMW M5 or Ferrari F50

I couldn't afford the insurance on those two you asinine! I guess you are one of those spreadsheet guys who tries to do business while driving along in your plush auto :crutchy: :cacker:

Edited May 4, 2008 by Red Yaris 54
Treading on thin ice with this post Flynn2.............Far too many assumptions made

[Phoenix999]

Flynn2.... thank you for writing that reply.

You have confirmed what I have been thinking, and I guess most readers here, about you in that you seem to be an immature and ill informed person who does not appear to be able to construct an argument without resorting to childish terms My favourite was 'little boy' as I have not been called that for many many years and if you were to stand alongside me I guess I would tower above you in stature and, just possibly, intellect ;)

As you do not own a car I suggest you wait until you get a bit older and then buy one.... once having driven the car for a couple of years you may then hopefully be able to speak from a position of experience and some knowledge. Flynn2 you certainly have a lot to learn in life which includes how to deal with people and put forward a debate in a constructive manner where people will then maybe take you seriously

You have made a few assumptions about both myself and others and you have not been correct yet. Guess again, but then I think you should save your time as you will no doubt be wrong once more

Before you construct your reply I urge you to be cautious. Please be aware that the moderators here, as on other forums, have the ability to edit or even delete your posts should they deem it necessary. Choose your words and terms correctly as it is all too easy to be a keyboard warrior :)

Regardless of what has been written above I wish you well with your motoring future

[Red Yaris 54]

As has been stated the moderators ARE watching :)

If this debate continues its downward spiral then it will become TOAST.

Please consider the original question and do not degenerate into the bull pit ;)

WILL THE HYBRID MAGIC WEAR THIN?

[Mike Nelson]

I am amazed at the downturn in this post - what started out as a serious question has turned into a prius and prius driver slanging match. perhaps people with such attitudes should be banned from posting in a section they clearly do not like.

I think the point of this topic is that as OIL reserves are running out fuel will increase in price so fuel economy is becoming more important to every one - even BMW are using some of the Prius's tricks with their ED vehicles and VAG and Mercedes are introducing Diesel based hybrid test vehicles.

Personally I an against diesel as a fuel for mobile vehicles (its oK for ships and power stations where the very toxic particulates can be properly cleaned) but in a car and in a urban environment - no way ti causes way to many health problems over and above those caused by petrol vehicles.

The use of Bio fuels as an alternative is a DUD and only useful politically - the world is running out of food as its overpopulated, staling food for fuel is not the way to go - now if someone could use waste (domestic refuse or wood waste or farming waste as its source then I might be persuaded)

True Vehicles cause only 15% of CO2 emissions (air transport another 15%) goods shipping another 15% and the rest construction and power. but as the overproduction of CO2 that the planet can absorb is 50% ANY improvement we can make is for the good.

a vehicle is not about Speed or pulling power its a safe way to get from A to B. the fact that toyota has stopped all sports car type production in favour of smaller vehicles with a few Land Cruiser and trucks is a sign that the company see this as a growth ares. this is not going back on its sporting roots. Toyota started making small commuter vehicles and only got into the sports type market in the lates 60's/early 70's with the celicia - even that was economical by sports car standards. they wne for the white l whales and the like later but realised their error!

So in answer toyota and other car makers realise that economy is the way to go and so do the government. and will do as much as they can to promote economical vehicles so I gueess the tax breaks will continue. after all its more politically correct to reward those attemtoing to do something than announce - "We are doomed the world is running out of oil and food as we have been too greedy".

Its true but not very politically correct. So in answer I believe that the incentives to go Hybrid will continue until a true Zero Emission transport is available which will be decades off!

[don21]

Great thread guys.Fascinating reading and some sharp minds at work.

[hertsnminds]

the fact that toyota has stopped all sports car type production in favour of smaller vehicles

Somebody better tell these guys...

http://www.toyota.com/motorsports/

http://www.toyota-f1.com/public/en/index_e.html

http://jalopnik.com/cars/la-auto-show/la-a...port-322698.php

The Prius is just one solution to the personal transport problem

If the Americans had no oil and only water all of their cars would be like this one

If Toyota want a zero emission vehicle they could buy or develop this technology

Like all maufactures Toyota are trying to sell something. Seat belts, ABS, high level brake lights, low emissions are not things car manufacturers were actively developing they had to have their hand forced by legislation and once they had made the investment they put an advertising spin on those features to make their product sound better than the competition. Volvo made safety a way to sell cars. Toyota are making low emission hybrids a way to sell cars. Ferrari make speed and design a way to sell cars.

Everyone is an individual and we all want different things from a car, not just transport from A - B . As for the hybrid magic it is not always the best technical solution that wins the sales war, anyone want to buy a betamax video recorder?