Which Model To Buy - Diesel Or Petrol?

[Pashtari]

Hi everyone,

I am considering buying an Avensis Estate, probably around 04 registration. I travel around 20k miles a year, mainly on motorways.

I am wondering whether to buy a Petrol or a Diesel model. Petrol is about 11p a litre cheaper now, but I think there is around 10 miles a gallon difference in fuel consumption, which means that overall the diesel might still work out cheapest.

But if I buy a diesel model, what are the odds of having to replace the dual mass flywheel on a vehicle that I will probably own to 150k miles? As far as I understand it, the petrol model doesn't have this problem?

The other consideration is that if I buy a higher mileage model than anticipated, I could own the car potentially up to 190k miles. This would suggest the diesel model might be a better bet, but does anyone know if the petrol model can handle that kind of mileage or am I likely to need a new engine at 150k?

Other considerations are alloy wheels as standard and the navigation system sounds useful, but is it worth missing a good buy for if the model I choose hasn't got it?

If anyone can post typical fuel consumption figures for petrol & diesel I would be very grateful. The technical data on the internet reads 39 and 49 mpg respectively, but is it higher or lower in reality?

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks, John

[TeyaDog]

Hi everyone,

I am considering buying an Avensis Estate, probably around 04 registration. I travel around 20k miles a year, mainly on motorways.

I am wondering whether to buy a Petrol or a Diesel model. Petrol is about 11p a litre cheaper now, but I think there is around 10 miles a gallon difference in fuel consumption, which means that overall the diesel might still work out cheapest.

But if I buy a diesel model, what are the odds of having to replace the dual mass flywheel on a vehicle that I will probably own to 150k miles? As far as I understand it, the petrol model doesn't have this problem?

The other consideration is that if I buy a higher mileage model than anticipated, I could own the car potentially up to 190k miles. This would suggest the diesel model might be a better bet, but does anyone know if the petrol model can handle that kind of mileage or am I likely to need a new engine at 150k?

Other considerations are alloy wheels as standard and the navigation system sounds useful, but is it worth missing a good buy for if the model I choose hasn't got it?

If anyone can post typical fuel consumption figures for petrol & diesel I would be very grateful. The technical data on the internet reads 39 and 49 mpg respectively, but is it higher or lower in reality?

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks, John

John ............ there is a very long (but informative) thread on the Avensis forum that tackles all the issues that you raise. Use the search facility and I'm sure that you will find the topic and have the majority of your questions answered.

TeyaDog

[cabcurtains]

In the fleet world, 18,000 miles is considered to be the break even mileage for Diesel's to be cheaper to run than petrols, however this is based on new cars.

In my opinion the petrol is the better option as they simply have less parts to go wrong, Diesels have to be very complicated to turn the Dirty Diesel into smoke free emissions. They also have turbos, injectors, intercoolers and all sorts of other ancillaries that do all the work to keep the engine smoke free. If one of these packs up the bill will be big, diesel pump will be £1000 easily. A petrol engine simply has an easier job as petrol is cleaner to start with, thus the engine simply sucks squeezes bangs & blows with out the assistance of a turbo etc (on Avensis's).

Yes the petrol is more expensive on fuel to run but when you consider all the other things Diesel's are more expensive i.e buying the car, routine servicing costs etc the petrol wins.

Regarding the big miles, provided the car is a good un when you buy it and you give it the regular oil changes it needs + all the other servicing then 200k should be easily achieved.

Hope this helps

[Pashtari]

In the fleet world, 18,000 miles is considered to be the break even mileage for Diesel's to be cheaper to run than petrols, however this is based on new cars.

In my opinion the petrol is the better option as they simply have less parts to go wrong, Diesels have to be very complicated to turn the Dirty Diesel into smoke free emissions. They also have turbos, injectors, intercoolers and all sorts of other ancillaries that do all the work to keep the engine smoke free. If one of these packs up the bill will be big, diesel pump will be £1000 easily. A petrol engine simply has an easier job as petrol is cleaner to start with, thus the engine simply sucks squeezes bangs & blows with out the assistance of a turbo etc (on Avensis's).

Yes the petrol is more expensive on fuel to run but when you consider all the other things Diesel's are more expensive i.e buying the car, routine servicing costs etc the petrol wins.

Regarding the big miles, provided the car is a good un when you buy it and you give it the regular oil changes it needs + all the other servicing then 200k should be easily achieved.

Hope this helps

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply, which was a lot more informative than the previous one! The difference in price between diesel and petrol seems to be widening and I might start to use the train more often in the future, hence petrol may become the cheapest option for me.

I have searched back through the forum and although I see a lot of questions about the navigation system, I can't find any advice as to whether it should influence my buying decision or not. Not a huge deal, but it's a pain to keep removing the Tom Tom whenever I leave the car.

Best wishes, John

[MadVlad]

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply, which was a lot more informative than the previous one! The difference in price between diesel and petrol seems to be widening and I might start to use the train more often in the future, hence petrol may become the cheapest option for me.

I have searched back through the forum and although I see a lot of questions about the navigation system, I can't find any advice as to whether it should influence my buying decision or not. Not a huge deal, but it's a pain to keep removing the Tom Tom whenever I leave the car.

Best wishes, John

I understand that the flywheel issue relates to a certain number of cars - you may be able to find a range of engine numbers that will help you choose when you actually go to look at a car. I'd buy on condition and service history rather than equipment - if you're going to keep the car for a while then its nice to know that the previous owner invested in its future. As far as navigation is concerned, mapping upgrades occur reasonably regularly and its cheaper to go out and buy a new TomTom with up to date mapping than to update an in-car navigation system. You really should drive both petrol and diesel models and decide if you prefer the torque of the diesel or the revability of the petrol - you've got to enjoy the car and the nature of diesels and petrols is quite different.

There's no doubt that the potential expense of diesel repairs can be huge. If you're fussy about where you buy your fuel and change your filters at regular intervals then you can minimise the risk. I drive a diesel Corolla (25k miles a year) and know that the extra fuel economy will easily offset the risk of any repairs that it might need in the future. The extra fuel economy is a fact, the additional repairs are a risk - even if something goes wrong, I'll have saved enough on fuel to pay for it.

[bjw]

In the fleet world, 18,000 miles is considered to be the break even mileage for Diesel's to be cheaper to run than petrols, however this is based on new cars.

In my opinion the petrol is the better option as they simply have less parts to go wrong, Diesels have to be very complicated to turn the Dirty Diesel into smoke free emissions. They also have turbos, injectors, intercoolers and all sorts of other ancillaries that do all the work to keep the engine smoke free. If one of these packs up the bill will be big, diesel pump will be £1000 easily. A petrol engine simply has an easier job as petrol is cleaner to start with, thus the engine simply sucks squeezes bangs & blows with out the assistance of a turbo etc (on Avensis's).

Yes the petrol is more expensive on fuel to run but when you consider all the other things Diesel's are more expensive i.e buying the car, routine servicing costs etc the petrol wins.

Regarding the big miles, provided the car is a good un when you buy it and you give it the regular oil changes it needs + all the other servicing then 200k should be easily achieved.

Hope this helps

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply, which was a lot more informative than the previous one! The difference in price between diesel and petrol seems to be widening and I might start to use the train more often in the future, hence petrol may become the cheapest option for me.

I have searched back through the forum and although I see a lot of questions about the navigation system, I can't find any advice as to whether it should influence my buying decision or not. Not a huge deal, but it's a pain to keep removing the Tom Tom whenever I leave the car.

Best wishes, John

I agree it is a pain removing the Tomtom each time you get out of the car but in my opinion the ability to upgrade the maps ,software and add the pocket GPS speed camera data base out ways the disadvantage .

I use the brodit mount system and use an active mount with mine also mini move clips and it makes it a lot easier as you just slide the sat nav off the pro clip

Regarding the petrol v diesel its a difficult one on TV today Mike Rutherford was saying taking the difference in purchase price of the car and cost of diesel you had to do more than 12,000 miles a year to break even .

Myself I just like the torque you get from diesels

[TheNissanMan]

12k defo petrol, 18+ as stated defo diesel, you pay more but will make you money back... if your looking at running the engine til 190k then forget residuals as they don;t enter the equation!!

Diesels do last longer than petrols as well...

To merry to write a proper write up, maybe tomorrow :)

[cabcurtains]

My personal car is the Rolla used by the Mrs day to day, she does 16k per annum in it which almost warrants a diesel which is what we had before. However the Focus TDCi was a disappointment, yes it was good on fuel but on its first MOT with 46k on it the garage said the Dual Mass Flywheel was killing the clutch and the injectors wouldn't last much past 50k! Thats why we returned to a Petrol Toyota, 100% reliable (touchwood) and easier and cheaper to fix if it breaks.

Totally agree with the torque thing though, i do 50k per annum and i wouldn't want to do it in a flat petrol car, but i don't pay any bills on my Diesel Accord ( Great car,soon to be something else) as its a company car.

I agree Diesel engines last longer but its all the ancillary bits that dont, and there expensive.

John, this probably isn't helping you

[Pashtari]

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply, which was a lot more informative than the previous one! The difference in price between diesel and petrol seems to be widening and I might start to use the train more often in the future, hence petrol may become the cheapest option for me.

I have searched back through the forum and although I see a lot of questions about the navigation system, I can't find any advice as to whether it should influence my buying decision or not. Not a huge deal, but it's a pain to keep removing the Tom Tom whenever I leave the car.

Best wishes, John

I understand that the flywheel issue relates to a certain number of cars - you may be able to find a range of engine numbers that will help you choose when you actually go to look at a car. I'd buy on condition and service history rather than equipment - if you're going to keep the car for a while then its nice to know that the previous owner invested in its future. As far as navigation is concerned, mapping upgrades occur reasonably regularly and its cheaper to go out and buy a new TomTom with up to date mapping than to update an in-car navigation system. You really should drive both petrol and diesel models and decide if you prefer the torque of the diesel or the revability of the petrol - you've got to enjoy the car and the nature of diesels and petrols is quite different.

There's no doubt that the potential expense of diesel repairs can be huge. If you're fussy about where you buy your fuel and change your filters at regular intervals then you can minimise the risk. I drive a diesel Corolla (25k miles a year) and know that the extra fuel economy will easily offset the risk of any repairs that it might need in the future. The extra fuel economy is a fact, the additional repairs are a risk - even if something goes wrong, I'll have saved enough on fuel to pay for it.

Thanks for your advice. Until now I've been driving a Mondeo 130 TDCi and think it's a marvellous car, or at least it was until a drunk wrote it off when it was parked on my drive! But after only a few months from buying it I had bills exceeding £1000, including 2 starters, a clutch and a dual mass flywheel! Hence my reason for looking elsewhere, although I now discover that all the cars I am considering have them! Still, the Avensis is a nice looking car, people generally say Toyotas are reliable and the insurance is 2 groups cheaper.

[Pashtari]

I agree it is a pain removing the Tomtom each time you get out of the car but in my opinion the ability to upgrade the maps ,software and add the pocket GPS speed camera data base out ways the disadvantage .

I use the brodit mount system and use an active mount with mine also mini move clips and it makes it a lot easier as you just slide the sat nav off the pro clip

Regarding the petrol v diesel its a difficult one on TV today Mike Rutherford was saying taking the difference in purchase price of the car and cost of diesel you had to do more than 12,000 miles a year to break even .

Myself I just like the torque you get from diesels

Thanks, I guess I can rule out sat nav as a 'must have', though I still prefer alloys to steel wheels.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by torque - I equate this to pulling power (i.e. towing). I've driven a 1.8 petrol Mondeo, followed by a 2.0 diesel one. I took the increase in performance to be due to the slightly larger engine, 130 bhp and turbo injection - a real kick in the back if you put your foot down fast. Is this what you mean by torque? Can't similar performance be achieved in the petrol versions?

[Pashtari]

My personal car is the Rolla used by the Mrs day to day, she does 16k per annum in it which almost warrants a diesel which is what we had before. However the Focus TDCi was a disappointment, yes it was good on fuel but on its first MOT with 46k on it the garage said the Dual Mass Flywheel was killing the clutch and the injectors wouldn't last much past 50k! Thats why we returned to a Petrol Toyota, 100% reliable (touchwood) and easier and cheaper to fix if it breaks.

Totally agree with the torque thing though, i do 50k per annum and i wouldn't want to do it in a flat petrol car, but i don't pay any bills on my Diesel Accord ( Great car,soon to be something else) as its a company car.

I agree Diesel engines last longer but its all the ancillary bits that dont, and there expensive.

John, this probably isn't helping you

Thanks and you're right - information overload LOL! I've gone past the point of wanting to burn people off at traffic lights - more fool them if they want to waste their fuel. So long as I can cruise comfortably along the motorway at 80 mph in order to get from A to B, I am quite happy. I'm not convinced that torque is important to me, except maybe for the occasional hill if we ever venture into Wales or the Lake District, but that's extremely rare. The reliability of the petrols is becoming slightly more attractive, but if they only do 34 mpg it's a big drop from the 50+ I would get from a diesel.

[bjw]

My personal car is the Rolla used by the Mrs day to day, she does 16k per annum in it which almost warrants a diesel which is what we had before. However the Focus TDCi was a disappointment, yes it was good on fuel but on its first MOT with 46k on it the garage said the Dual Mass Flywheel was killing the clutch and the injectors wouldn't last much past 50k! Thats why we returned to a Petrol Toyota, 100% reliable (touchwood) and easier and cheaper to fix if it breaks.

Totally agree with the torque thing though, i do 50k per annum and i wouldn't want to do it in a flat petrol car, but i don't pay any bills on my Diesel Accord ( Great car,soon to be something else) as its a company car.

I agree Diesel engines last longer but its all the ancillary bits that dont, and there expensive.

John, this probably isn't helping you

Thanks and you're right - information overload LOL! I've gone past the point of wanting to burn people off at traffic lights - more fool them if they want to waste their fuel. So long as I can cruise comfortably along the motorway at 80 mph in order to get from A to B, I am quite happy. I'm not convinced that torque is important to me, except maybe for the occasional hill if we ever venture into Wales or the Lake District, but that's extremely rare. The reliability of the petrols is becoming slightly more attractive, but if they only do 34 mpg it's a big drop from the 50+ I would get from a diesel.

I agree with you regarding not wanting to burn people of the road !!! what I was meaning by torque was you get your power to the engine in the 25 -60 mph band so which makes it a comfortable cruiser and has the power when you need such as if you are overtaking slow moving traffic. It does not make any sense these days to have a car that will do 100 mph with all the speed cameras about

[cabcurtains]

My personal car is the Rolla used by the Mrs day to day, she does 16k per annum in it which almost warrants a diesel which is what we had before. However the Focus TDCi was a disappointment, yes it was good on fuel but on its first MOT with 46k on it the garage said the Dual Mass Flywheel was killing the clutch and the injectors wouldn't last much past 50k! Thats why we returned to a Petrol Toyota, 100% reliable (touchwood) and easier and cheaper to fix if it breaks.

Totally agree with the torque thing though, i do 50k per annum and i wouldn't want to do it in a flat petrol car, but i don't pay any bills on my Diesel Accord ( Great car,soon to be something else) as its a company car.

I agree Diesel engines last longer but its all the ancillary bits that dont, and there expensive.

John, this probably isn't helping you

Thanks and you're right - information overload LOL! I've gone past the point of wanting to burn people off at traffic lights - more fool them if they want to waste their fuel. So long as I can cruise comfortably along the motorway at 80 mph in order to get from A to B, I am quite happy. I'm not convinced that torque is important to me, except maybe for the occasional hill if we ever venture into Wales or the Lake District, but that's extremely rare. The reliability of the petrols is becoming slightly more attractive, but if they only do 34 mpg it's a big drop from the 50+ I would get from a diesel.

I agree with you regarding not wanting to burn people of the road !!! what I was meaning by torque was you get your power to the engine in the 25 -60 mph band so which makes it a comfortable cruiser and has the power when you need such as if you are overtaking slow moving traffic. It does not make any sense these days to have a car that will do 100 mph with all the speed cameras about

When your on the motorway and the traffic slows down to 50 and you want to get back to 80 in 6th gear on a gradient the Torque of a Turbo Diesel allows you to stay in 6th, in a petrol 4cyl car you would have to drop to 4th to pull you up the hill. Torque makes for lazy driving, which is great if its what you want.

[batch]

Aggggh, the agony of choice. Glad I found this thread, it has been quite helpful.

I'm looking at dumping my 51 reg Mondeo and getting something newer. I'm still undecided on a a 2.2 d4d T3-x or a 1.8 T3-X. Looking at 06 or possibly an early 07 if I can haggle a good deal out of a Toyota franchise!

I do about 12K a year. On the face of it the diesel is a no brainer. Better MPG, better 'performance', cheaper VED. But there are some good points about the potential for expensive bills, and also they are a bit more expensive to buy in the first place. I still have nightmares about a diesel Laguna I once owned, but that's another story

So, anyway, can anyone tell me what the service intervals are of the two models? Does the petrol have a timing chain or belt (diesel has chain right?), or anything else that is useful about ongoing costs (or anything else to help me stop procrastinating!).

Thanks in advance.

[grapet]

I have an avensis tourer 2.2 diesel. Does around 45mpg and drives fine, love the torque. I only do around 10k each year but plan the occasional long european trip or up to scotland for summer hols. I change my flywheel and clutch on warranty immediately after buying the car from a main toyota dealer. At present diesel is more expensive but give it a few months and the situation may be reversed. I would drive both and decide for yourself. A word of caution the Avensis is quite a noisy car (road noise) compared to other 'high spec' cars. I had a ford focus diesel before and it has a similar in car noise level.

Grape.

[grapet]

As for navigation systems. Complete waste at least for me. The avensis has one but 99% of my journeys are repeatative and those that are not I would consult a map first. Could never 100% rely on one. Just my pov. Certainly should not be a major factor in car choice.

[Gav171073]

Like Grape above I have a 2.2 d4d Tourer. You can wind it up on the motorway and do 90mph + cruises and get 45+ back mpg. I have never ever had above 47 mpg even driving like my Dad used to. My wife drives it daily to school and it does 38-39, which says as much about the type of trip (6 miles of hills and junctions and a school car park full of 4x4s) as her driving (she has no idea it has a 5th or 6th gear). Mine has a crappy LCD sat nav which is nigh on useless. Other than that its fine, and I would recommend it to anyone. Wish I would have got a black one.