T180 Fuel Consumption

[Corolla SR]

Bought a t180 rav4 a week and a half ago and filled the tank right up. I have driven around 260 miles town driving only and towed a trailer around 20 miles.

The fuel light is now on and when i filled it first, the fuel light was on. Working out that i had a 13.2g fuel tank and i used around 12.5g i worked out that i have a fuel consumption of around 20.8MPG. the vehicle has around 39,000 miles on the clock and is just under 2 years old. A new cat is being fitted to the vehicle due to the computer picking up something. What could be the problem?

[anchorman]

In the first place wait until you have filled up again as relying on the light coming on is too vague. It is hard with T180 not to grow horns and test it a bit at first and the stint with the trailer could have had a really adverse effect depending on the load and the speed. Now having said that there are numerous reports of poor fuel consumption with T180s and 30mpg is not out of the way. If you get a more definitive measurement of the fuel and do the sums again it might be a bit better given the above.

If a cat is being fitted then there could be other reasons for excessive consumption and you will have to wait until it is fixed to get some representative fuel consumption.

Keep your chin up mate, it won't be so bad when you get it sorted but do expect less than 35 kicking about.

[Corolla SR]

thanks for the reply, i understand about putting the foot to test within the first week, but i read the forums before i got the rav, and i tried from day one to try to get the best MPG i could. i wanted to find out first to see if there were any problems or if the reports about fuel bad consumption were correct or if it was vehicle or driver dependent. i didnt expect it to be so low. the reason i went for the rav4 t180 was the fact of advertised MPG and road tax after owning a couple of 4x4 guzzlers. i`m a bit dissapointed to say the least. i returned the rav to the dealer today and left it with them to sort it out.

[anchorman]

It sounds like they have unearthed a fault so hopefully it will get better. The 140 engine is pretty good. After talking to shcm I can get mid 40s regularly and nearer 60 on a trip. Is it too late to swap?

[bothwell_buyer]

Yawn - see these money savers......

A T180 is surely bougfht as a performance toy compared tae the dieselly tortoises that are sold as RAVs.

If its any help, I get between 160 miles and 210 miles from a tank of V-Plus petrol depending on how I drive it and whether I am doing standing quarter miles.

I'd certainly suggest you use the higher octane fuel and keep away frae supermarkets stuff.

Jist keep a note on fuel in/miles out over a period.

If ye want a good mpg, I could lend you the Trafic minibus????

Launch time of 2.04 seconds - and we're looking for a fault on the upper range 70mph +. The cars back in getting several things checked, but it is faster than when it was down in wARRINGTON.

[Fujisan]

After talking to shcm I can get mid 40s regularly and nearer 60 on a trip.

:o

Come on SHCM!

Reveal all, oh fuel sipping guru!

[MarsKy]

After talking to shcm I can get mid 40s regularly and nearer 60 on a trip.

:o

Come on SHCM!

Reveal all, oh fuel sipping guru!

Bought my 57 plate, ex-demonstrator RAV4 T180 at the start of May 2008. Did a 500 mile return journey from Central Belt up to Clach Toll near Lochinver in Scotland (there's a road you have to drive before you die). I was getting around 36mpg. Did a 40 mile trip into Edinburgh yesterday and got 44mpg - admittedly the traffic meant I could only do 40-60 mph which meant me being more economical than usual. Overall, I think the T180 has a great balance of power, torque and MPG.

[local hero]

After talking to shcm I can get mid 40s regularly and nearer 60 on a trip.

:o

Come on SHCM!

Reveal all, oh fuel sipping guru!

Bought my 57 plate, ex-demonstrator RAV4 T180 at the start of May 2008. Did a 500 mile return journey from Central Belt up to Clach Toll near Lochinver in Scotland (there's a road you have to drive before you die). I was getting around 36mpg. Did a 40 mile trip into Edinburgh yesterday and got 44mpg - admittedly the traffic meant I could only do 40-60 mph which meant me being more economical than usual. Overall, I think the T180 has a great balance of power, torque and MPG.

I don,t wish to rain on everyones parade here, but my 4.3 d4d was showing High 50s mpg and 45mpg around town, I posted my speedo showing 57.6 on a 172 mile round trip, but when i checked it brim to brim my true consumption was 10 mpg less, Do you not think if our cars were truly capable of 60mpg MR T would be the first to make it known to the public, also why when my car is supposedly doing 60mpg and i switch to range with a full tank, does it show 420 miles, when 13galls X 60 mpg should give you a range of 780 miles,

[Fujisan]

Pretty sure Anchorman will tell you that he trusts the fuel computer reading as much as he trust's a politician!

And that he does his own calc's, brim to brim. The only really trustworthy way of gauging your mpg!

Anyway, I sure even 47mpg made you smile Local hero :D I know I'd be well happy with it!

[anchorman]

I do check my info by calculation as Fuj says and I am aware of the computer descrepancies. It always reads higher but I must admit the figures quoted are from the computer because I didn't fill up after the trip. Shcm records and charts his and if we are lucky he will show us a demo???

Anyway those dodgy taxi drivers from the airport don't know how to set off without trying to race somebody so how can they expect decent economy :P :D

Only kidding Stu

[local hero]

I do check my info by calculation as Fuj says and I am aware of the computer descrepancies. It always reads higher but I must admit the figures quoted are from the computer because I didn't fill up after the trip. Shcm records and charts his and if we are lucky he will show us a demo???

Anyway those dodgy taxi drivers from the airport don't know how to set off without trying to race somebody so how can they expect decent economy :P :D

Only kidding Stu

The thing is, when i first bought my 4.2 d4d, I found the computer totally accurate; so when i got this one i assumed it was the same, and although Iam not dissapointed in its consumption I dont like to be misled. on the subject of Taxis i have driven this style of cab for 20 yrs, and they have used a range of engines..2.5 BMC..2.3 rover..2.5rover..2.7 nissan(non turbo+ the best)..2.5 ford..and now2.5V.M italian engine, there is also an alternate cab with a 2.4 toyota engine..of all these the best mpg i have returned was 38.2 from the nissan. and that was a fare with 5 passengers and luggage to Lesmahagow,(close to Glasgow) one dark winters night,

Saw and got a photo of Mike Tyson at the airport today, he has gained a little bit of weight but dont tell him i said so.

[shcm]

After talking to shcm I can get mid 40s regularly and nearer 60 on a trip.

:o

Come on SHCM!

Reveal all, oh fuel sipping guru!

Fuj, this is a bit delayed, but I don't think I can add much to what has already been pointed out....and it isn't me that is the one around here, that swigs hydrocarbon based liquids by the barrel.

If I can, I try to keep the car moving as much as possible (where it is safe), even in traffic at a slow crawl. My speed on Mways will be too slow for most of you - about 60mph. However, for the bit of Mway that I use most of the time, it would only gain me about 2 minutes travelling at 80mph and you could easily lose that at traffic lights later for example. Don't think you'd keep 80 up on that section of the M42 anyway. Travelling faster, you need a clear long journey to get any significant time gain IMHO, unless the speed is outrageous.

Don't accel hard, come of the throttle early to give yourself time to match your speed, so you can slide into gaps in the traffic without stopping, where safe and possible to do so. Can take a fair bit of concentration (well it does me anyway). I'm not pretending I'm that good at it either, but that is the aim.

I very rarely use the cruise control. It will force the car uphill at a set speed and you have no feedback of how hard you are working the engine. Where safe, I may elect to let the speed drop by a couple of mph. However, if you have a lead foot then yes, cruise control can be a fuel saver.

The engine power required to overcome the aerodynamic drag is proportional to the cube of the speed. So, you're going to need about 2.4 times (240%) the engine power output to overcome that drag at 80 compared with 60 and aerodynamic drag is the dominant drag (apart from this post ) over about 30mph, I think the figure is.

I seem to remember a report a few year ago claiming it was best to accel hard up to your set speed. Been looking for a copy, but can't find it. I find that one very hard to believe anyway.

I'm not convinced people are really that bothered about fuel prices - there's no evidence to me of people changing their driving style - a lot of it still looks wasteful of energy to me. Still, it feels better having a moan about it.

There are other "fringe" cost benefits as well from smooth accel and decel. You'll probably find your tyres last longer, e.g. my 4.2 was sold with the original set, still legal at 60,000 miles. Also, possibly brake pads and discs. Can I even be daft enough to suggest that gentle pulling away might prolong the life of that DMF?

Also, it takes patience and persistence if you are going to change your driving style and most of your ego has to be left at home.

If it looks "wussy", fine, I careth not! I can take it! Doesn't mean you can't have a little fun once in a while, where conditions allow. I appreciated not everybody has the inclination to drive this way and it's not easy if you have to make a timed delivery or meet customers etc, but IMHO most of it is an ego thing.

Cheers

[shcm]

Shcm records and charts his and if we are lucky he will show us a demo???

Or if you are very very unlucky

Well er, OK , just remember all this that follows is all Anchorman's fault. After all, he's primed me post this, then does a runner off on holiday and leaves everybody else to suffer it

(Probably too late, but have a good one by the way AM. Watch out for the gators but I don't think you'll get one of those airboats in your suitcase for razzing about on Derwent Res or wherever).

Some of this has been posted before, so apologies for repeating myself. This stuff is easy to do and takes very little effort, once you have the spreadsheet set up.

I'm not pretending that these figures are deadly accurate. There are a number of things that can affect the calculations. Steve@Aberdeen (we've not seen him for a while) did some good explanations in the past of these. For a start, I take the distance travelled from the vehicle. There will be slight variations in the quantity of the fuel delivered by the pump and the point at which it cuts out. I also have a tendency to round the fill to the nearest £. However, unless there is a constant offset somewhere, averaging will usually have the effect of helping to remove these errors.

Most of my journeys are 20-30 miles. Generally I do about 440 miles between fills (4.3). Of those 440 Miles about 314 are urban, 90 are fast/national speed limit A roads and about 36 are motorway.

These are the figure for my old 4.2 D4D. Most of this 4.2 stuff is with nasty(?) Tesco Diesel. Trip mpg etc, is reset at each fill.

This is a graph of the Raw 4.2 mpg figures. The red line shows the trip computer reading (reset at each fill) and the yellow is the calculated figure. It's a bit spikey, due to all the factors outlined above, so the next one is slightly more use.

This one has the mpg figures on a crude "rolling average", which helps to filter out the spikes. The high peaks are due to long distance trips up to the Scottish Highlands (vehicle fully loaded). Otherwise, the gentle oscillation is due to winter/summer variation - you'll nearly always use more fuel in the winter. If I can achieve Mr.T's official combined figure (39.8 I think it was?), then I'm happy. On average I've bettered it here.

This one plots the difference between the computer mpg and calculated. Again a bit spikey (the yellow trace is a "rolling average" of it). On average, the error is about 1mpg high for the trip computer, which is fine by me.

Next one is fuel cost per mile. Of course it goes up! Note the dip to about 5p per mile early on (hoilday in Ireland - Cheaper fuel!).

This one is for Chatman/Blobwatch, but I can't be bothered to post in there - Distance between fills. Chatman - think you said elsewhere that the max you'd got from one tank was 420 miles. See if you can get 474 (I bet there are some people who can do better though), without conking out. Don't think the low fuel light was on when when I refilled, but it was a while ago to remember correctly. 420 miles per tank should be relatively easy. My average distance between fills was 428.

Oh, no 4.3 stuff next................

[shcm]

This is the equivalent stuff so far for the 4.3. Obviously, there is less data at the moment.

Again, the raw mpg figures, trip computer in red, calculated mpg in yellow.

Next, a more useful rolling average. The peak is due to trip to Scotland last year and the slight "bump" in February was due to a trip to some place in Derbyshire to see some bloke, both names of which escape me at the moment .

The average is slightly better than Mr T's combined (43.7 compared with 42.8), but what is slightly disappointing is that the trip to Scotland didn't achieve the extra urban figure (51mpg-ish I believe). However, the weather was bad on the way up (doesn't help consumption) and the car was relatively new. It may be rubbish, but of the 4 diesels I've owned, I always feel you need at least 10k on the clock before you get the best out of them. I'm sure it is doing better now.

There is also a sequence of Shell V Power Diesel in there. Can you spot it? To be honest, I don't believe it makes any difference to mpg. It makes the vehicle run smoother because of the higher cetane number, but that doesn't necessarily mean higher mpg. In fact, for petrol, the Bosch automotive handbook claims less energy per gallon for high octane fuel compared with lower octane stuff.

The next one is the error between calculated and trip computer. It's started off with very little error and has steadily got worse. It's been debated on here before what might be the cause, but I think we've agreed to disagree for the moment.

Local Hero - yes my 4.3 trip mpg is reading high too, in much the same way as yours. As far as the 60mpg goes - well mine was reading 65.5mpg when I got to Warrington. It came down afterwards, with some urban driving, but I estimate it achieved something like 55 to 57mpg on that run. So, actual 60mpg might be possible, but I think it will be hard work.

OK, fuel cost per mile......

Finally, 4.3 distance between fills. My longest so far is 491 miles (from Kyle of Lochalsh to home), but I think it will go further. After filling up this morning the vehicle was predicting a range of 580 miles (hard to believe it would achieve that).

OK, did you enjoy your kip? You can wake up now............

....and remember it's all Anchorman's fault ;).

Do I get honorary membership of the TOC sad b*st**ds club now?

Cheers

[Fujisan]

Absolutely wonderful stuff shcm! Thank you very much for all the time and effort in preparing all that info.

Going back to your first post, about fuel saving measures, I have to agree with you 100%. You cannot have speed and fuel economy, it's either one or the other.

God knows I've driven for years with my foot buried in the shagpile but with fuel the price it is and it's going to get worse, something has to change and the biggest factor on mpg is the driver.

For anyone in WHSmith's this week there is a cracking little three page article in What Car about speed v's mpg with a dramatic graph of mpg tumbling has speed increases, across a range of family vehicles including diesels and 4x4's.

Off the top of my head it said something like, once you pass 40mph, your fuel consumption will increase.

A couple of quotes from the article:

"In a Qashqai at 60mph you'll be doing 39mpg, yet at 90mph you'll be doing about half of that"

"Many motorists will happily scout around for the cheapest fuel prices in their area. Pay 2p less per litre when filling up an average car and you'll save £1.20. Not bad, but drop your speed from 90mph to 70mph on the motorway and you will save that much in eight minutes."

Anyway it's a good read

And again thank you shcm

[thedogindia]

Bought a t180 rav4 a week and a half ago and filled the tank right up. I have driven around 260 miles town driving only and towed a trailer around 20 miles.

The fuel light is now on and when i filled it first, the fuel light was on. Working out that i had a 13.2g fuel tank and i used around 12.5g i worked out that i have a fuel consumption of around 20.8MPG. the vehicle has around 39,000 miles on the clock and is just under 2 years old. A new cat is being fitted to the vehicle due to the computer picking up something. What could be the problem?

I also have a two year old T180 and regularly get over 42 to the gallon as an average, it is one of the best 4x4 i have ever had for consumption and on a 2000 mile holliday with a four berth caravan i averaged 26 no i am delighted, i have had the vehichle formnew and the only drawback is the price of the tyres !!!!!!!!!! anyone found a reasonable supplier ??

[Remoh1]

what size tyres are you after?

[Fujisan]

only drawback is the price of the tyres !!!!!!!!!! anyone found a reasonable supplier ??

what size tyres are you after?

I think it is more the fitting that is expensive and time consuming rather than the tyres themselves.

See this thread for cfc's excellent explaination of the T180 run flat system.

[Remoh1]

ouch that has to make the t180 almost unsellable in the second hand market, no one will buy a rav thats a few years old and needs tyres at £400 a go.

[Fujisan]

ouch that has to make the t180 almost unsellable in the second hand market, no one will buy a rav thats a few years old and needs tyres at £400 a go.

Only those who have not done their homework and don't know about the T180's tyre system!!

[Remoh1]

ouch that has to make the t180 almost unsellable in the second hand market, no one will buy a rav thats a few years old and needs tyres at £400 a go.

Only those who have not done their homework and don't know about the T180's tyre system!!

thats very true, part ex prices at non dealers will be rubbish, because the garage will be including enough gap to cover themselves if they have to put a tyre or two on it before resale

[Corolla SR]

rav 4 returned after cat being fitted. i have driven 287 miles and used 51 litres (filled up this morning). this works out at around 25.4 MPG. better than before but still low. garage checked out vehicle and cant find anything wrong. Is this figure acceptable.

[john1944]

Yawn - see these money savers......

A T180 is surely bougfht as a performance toy compared tae the dieselly tortoises that are sold as RAVs.

If its any help, I get between 160 miles and 210 miles from a tank of V-Plus petrol depending on how I drive it and whether I am doing standing quarter miles.

I'd certainly suggest you use the higher octane fuel and keep away frae supermarkets stuff.

Jist keep a note on fuel in/miles out over a period.

If ye want a good mpg, I could lend you the Trafic minibus????

Launch time of 2.04 seconds - and we're looking for a fault on the upper range 70mph +. The cars back in getting several things checked, but it is faster than when it was down in wARRINGTON.

If you think the diesel rav is tortoise like, I suggest you learn a little more about tortoises. The Rav diesel is a competent car capable of 50m.p.g. and fast acceleration.

[anchorman]

Absolutely wonderful stuff shcm! Thank you very much for all the time and effort in preparing all that info.

Going back to your first post, about fuel saving measures, I have to agree with you 100%. You cannot have speed and fuel economy, it's either one or the other.

God knows I've driven for years with my foot buried in the shagpile but with fuel the price it is and it's going to get worse, something has to change and the biggest factor on mpg is the driver.

For anyone in WHSmith's this week there is a cracking little three page article in What Car about speed v's mpg with a dramatic graph of mpg tumbling has speed increases, across a range of family vehicles including diesels and 4x4's.

Off the top of my head it said something like, once you pass 40mph, your fuel consumption will increase.

A couple of quotes from the article:

"In a Qashqai at 60mph you'll be doing 39mpg, yet at 90mph you'll be doing about half of that"

"Many motorists will happily scout around for the cheapest fuel prices in their area. Pay 2p less per litre when filling up an average car and you'll save £1.20. Not bad, but drop your speed from 90mph to 70mph on the motorway and you will save that much in eight minutes."

Anyway it's a good read

And again thank you shcm

Good 'int he?

I taught him well!!!!! :P