Fuel Saving & Economising Methods

[hexpert]

With the ever rising cost of fuel I have been looking at ways to reduce costs. I found the following products on eBay so am canvasing views as, realistically, cars aren't my area of expertise. Have a look and tell me your thoughts, and more importantly, your experiences if you use any of these. Vehicle is a 2005 2.0 litre D4D.

Sorry if this post is a bit long-winded. :P :P

The first two supposedly improve airflow through the air filter.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/31-GAS-FUEL-DIESEL-Saver-35Hp-FITS -ANY-VEHICLE-WOW_W0QQitemZ370055605070QQihZ024QQcategoryZ122139QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV

ewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gas-fuel-saver-Toyot...1QQcmdZViewItem

Don't know if there would be any problems here, but I was lead to believe the RAV has a turbo-charger, the large flat area in the middle of the engine at the top being the part pointed out to me, so I don't know how this may effect it.

These 2 supposedly improve the fuel quality.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FUEL-SAVER-Gas-Petro...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FUEL-SAVER-FOR-A-CAR...1QQcmdZViewItem

The problem here is that, if I understand correctly, I need to put them on the injectors, and RAV4 diesels have four injectors, so I'd need 4 of these. Plus I don't even know where the injectors are located, aside from, obviously they're on the engine somewhere.

I also thought about bio-diesel, but some reports I read say

1)I would need to change the fuel filter,

2)Other reports say I can use bio-diesel provided it makes up a maximum blend of 50% of the diesel in the tank

3)Other reports say that the vehicle manufacturers won't even countenance bio-diesel, claiming it will damage engines, destroy the catalytic convertor and invalidate warranties.

So I am really confused, but at a price difference of 30 pence a litre, bio-diesel makes for a great saving if it can be used. And combined with the others listed, if they all work, could make for great savings/fuel economy.

[Fujisan]

The best ways to save fuel

Anticipation and a light touch ;)

Don't think much of these "miracle" products

Chip fat bio-fuel? Some people swear by it, I'll walk before I let it near my engine, but each to their own.

[bitman]

as Fujisan writes, your right foot and your eyes/brain will do the job and is free.

had a round m23, m25 & m40 yesterday and every time i`m surprised how the people are driving here. fuel must be free...

have a look here http://www.nieuwerijden.nl/ it's in dutch but there is a page in english.

[anchorman]

With the ever rising cost of fuel I have been looking at ways to reduce costs. I found the following products on ebay so am canvasing views as, realistically, cars aren't my area of expertise. Have a look and tell me your thoughts, and more importantly, your experiences if you use any of these. Vehicle is a 2005 2.0 litre D4D.

Sorry if this post is a bit long-winded. :P :P

The first two supposedly improve airflow through the air filter.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/31-GAS-FUEL-DIESEL-Saver-35Hp-FITS -ANY-VEHICLE-WOW_W0QQitemZ370055605070QQihZ024QQcategoryZ122139QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV

ewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gas-fuel-saver-Toyot...1QQcmdZViewItem

Don't know if there would be any problems here, but I was lead to believe the RAV has a turbo-charger, the large flat area in the middle of the engine at the top being the part pointed out to me, so I don't know how this may effect it.

These 2 supposedly improve the fuel quality.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FUEL-SAVER-Gas-Petro...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FUEL-SAVER-FOR-A-CAR...1QQcmdZViewItem

The problem here is that, if I understand correctly, I need to put them on the injectors, and RAV4 diesels have four injectors, so I'd need 4 of these. Plus I don't even know where the injectors are located, aside from, obviously they're on the engine somewhere.

I also thought about bio-diesel, but some reports I read say

1)I would need to change the fuel filter,

2)Other reports say I can use bio-diesel provided it makes up a maximum blend of 50% of the diesel in the tank

3)Other reports say that the vehicle manufacturers won't even countenance bio-diesel, claiming it will damage engines, destroy the catalytic convertor and invalidate warranties.

So I am really confused, but at a price difference of 30 pence a litre, bio-diesel makes for a great saving if it can be used. And combined with the others listed, if they all work, could make for great savings/fuel economy.

Hi

I can't see the items in the first 2 links but I've heard about those magnetising devises before. They alegedly work but I have no experience other than what I've read. I think you would put them on the fuel pipe between the filter and the high pressure fuel pump so you should only need 2. I have worked for many years with vehicle manufacturers and know a bit about the way testing and development departments tick. Nothing is taken for granted and everything is measured. I honestly believe that if these devices worked they would have tested them and fitted them by now. The trouble is you will have to measure very accurately to know if they were worth the cost but if you think it is worth a try??? I don't think I'll bother.

The engine is turbocharged but the item you have described that looks like a radiator lay on the engine is the intercooler. Its job is to cool the pressurised air that the turbo produced (and heated in the process) and thereby increase the density so it becomes more useful in the combustion process. The turbo is the rusty looking giant snail down the back of the engine. It uses exhaust gas to drive a turbine which in turn drives a turbine in the inlet pipe to increase the pressure of the incoming air. It increases the power and efficiency of the engine;

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

Bio Diesel

You can buy it or you can blend it yourself. The latter is cheapest but it is a very complicated process and it must be declared for tax purposes. Ready made already has the duty on it and is therefor easier but as you say you do have to blend it with diesel and any errors long term could effect engine wear especially valves and injectors. It is worth noting that if you ever run out of diesel and the only thing you can get your hands on is pure vegetable oil you can add it to the tank and it will run on 100% although it will smell like a chip shop (no joke) but it will get you out of trouble and for such short periods will not adversely effect the engine.

I have mixed views about this fuel crisis. There is no doubt that we cannot use fuel at this rate for ever and a day - nearly every house on my street has at least 2 cars. The oil producing nations are beginning to realise they have a valuable resource and are in no hurry to use it up when they can slow things down and just charge more. I bitterly resent the government fixing the duty as a percentage. Its an ongoing windfall for them and they are sitting on thier hands letting global supply take the blame while thier incompetence is being funded. They are now talking about carbon credit points that we will have to buy and then have them deducted each time we buy fuel or fly on a plane. The trouble is it is aimed fair and square at the UK tax payer and once again we get shafted while the rest of the world does as they please. The bottom line is that I think this is the thin end of the wedge and this is about to change the way we all live. These fuel prices are not going to stop climbing in the forseeable future and everything is going to be effected. Will the government use the extra revenue to even start thinking about an integrated transport policy that will make a second car a nonsence? Not likely. Like many public authorities they just go off unregulated doing thier own thing and we are going to have to get used to it.

You are right to try to conserve fuel but I think the biggest changes will be made by meticulous attention to servicing and driving style. Pay particular attention to tyre pressures and air filters and remove any unused roof bars or anything else that interfers with airflow. Driving with any window down or the sunroof open raises consumption by 5-8% and reduce the use of the aircon and exterior lighting and heated rear window which all load the alternator/auxiliary belt by up to 5hp.

All the best.

[Remoh1]

lets be honest if strapping seven quids worth of magnet to a fuel pipe gave that much improvement to fuel economy and that big a reduction in emissions manufacturers would have been doing it by now. People buy cras based on performance and emission as well as functionality these days so if they worked one manufacturere would fit them to steal an edge on the competition and then the rest would follow pretty fast. Old sayings are the best

if it sounds to good to be true IT IS

[Hoovie]

I have mixed views about this fuel crisis. There is no doubt that we cannot use fuel at this rate for ever and a day - nearly every house on my street has at least 2 cars. The oil producing nations are beginning to realise they have a valuable resource and are in no hurry to use it up when they can slow things down and just charge more. I bitterly resent the government fixing the duty as a percentage. Its an ongoing windfall for them and they are sitting on thier hands letting global supply take the blame while thier incompetence is being funded.

You are only partly right, in fact, Anchorman. The duty is fixed at a set amount per litre, so if the basic cost of fuel rises by say 40p a litre, the fuel duty does not increase (it is a very common misconception that fuel duty is a percentage).

However, the VAT is applied to the whole pump price AFTER duty is applied, so is a variable value adding an extra 17.5% (and why not 5% like other energy products?) to each 1p increase in fuel.

I know lots of people say VAT applied on the whole amount is a double whammy, but in reality would be no different then if the duty was exempt from VAT as the fuel duty would just be upped by 17.5% to make up the gap and the end consumer would be no better off anyway

current rates are:

2007 fuel duty (as of 1 October 2007) in the United Kingdom is:

50.35 pence per litre for ultra-low sulphur unleaded petrol/diesel

53.65 pence per litre for conventional unleaded petrol

56.94 pence per litre for conventional diesel

30.35 pence per litre for bio-diesel and bio ethanol - low tax to encourage consumer conversion

16.49 pence per kg for gas other than natural gas (LPG)

13.70 pence per kg for natural gas used as road fuel.

9.69 pence per litre for rebated gas oil (red diesel)

9.29 pence per litre for rebated fuel oil

In wider terms, I do find it annoying that we charge for road usage in UK by and large via a hefty RFL, but on the continent it seems to be via Tolls much more, so UK drivers abroad are penalised compared to Foreign drivers using UK Roads.

Charge visitors a daily/weekly "Tourist" RFL or give them the choice of buying a standard UK RFL to use UK roads - it can hardly be difficult to do given the way cars have to come into the UK

To answer the main question, I agree with the replies given - best way to save fuel is to drive with anticipation and predictive thought. Recently I have been turning off the engine when waiting at lights etc where I think I may be stationary for over 60 seconds - hope that is long enough to actually save money!

[anchorman]

Thanks for the clarification hoovie. Its still a hell of a lot of duty and like you say, why not 5% VAT?

I believe turning the engine off does save money. It would have to be a very short time to load the alternator enough to outweigh the saving especially when the engine is warm. Not sure of the long term effect on the starter would be.

[hexpert]

Hi

I can't see the items in the first 2 links but I've heard about those magnetising devises before. They alegedly work but I have no experience other than what I've read. I think you would put them on the fuel pipe between the filter and the high pressure fuel pump so you should only need 2. I have worked for many years with vehicle manufacturers and know a bit about the way testing and development departments tick. Nothing is taken for granted and everything is measured. I honestly believe that if these devices worked they would have tested them and fitted them by now. The trouble is you will have to measure very accurately to know if they were worth the cost but if you think it is worth a try??? I don't think I'll bother.

The engine is turbocharged but the item you have described that looks like a radiator lay on the engine is the intercooler. Its job is to cool the pressurised air that the turbo produced (and heated in the process) and thereby increase the density so it becomes more useful in the combustion process. The turbo is the rusty looking giant snail down the back of the engine. It uses exhaust gas to drive a turbine which in turn drives a turbine in the inlet pipe to increase the pressure of the incoming air. It increases the power and efficiency of the engine;

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

Bio Diesel

You can buy it or you can blend it yourself. The latter is cheapest but it is a very complicated process and it must be declared for tax purposes. Ready made already has the duty on it and is therefor easier but as you say you do have to blend it with diesel and any errors long term could effect engine wear especially valves and injectors. It is worth noting that if you ever run out of diesel and the only thing you can get your hands on is pure vegetable oil you can add it to the tank and it will run on 100% although it will smell like a chip shop (no joke) but it will get you out of trouble and for such short periods will not adversely effect the engine.

All the best.

Hi Anchorman,

the first 2 are basically a unit which fits inside the air filter, the supposedly create a vortex effect, thereby sucking more air into the engine, which apparantly gives greater combustion without using more fuel. Apparantly they are sold under the name Tornado, but at a much higher price than those offered on eBay. If you do a search for tornado on eBay they are listed under car tuning and styling.

Apperantly the bio-diesel would actually be better for the engine as it provides greater lubrication, and so reduces wear and tear.

In refernce to the fitting of the magnets, you say that you think I would put them on the fuel pipe between the filter and the high pressure fuel pump. Where are these located? I might give them a try and see.

[bothwell_buyer]

Hi Anchorman,

the first 2 are basically a unit which fits inside the air filter, the supposedly create a vortex effect, thereby sucking more air into the engine, which apparantly gives greater combustion without using more fuel. Apparantly they are sold under the name Tornado, but at a much higher price than those offered on ebay. If you do a search for tornado on ebay they are listed under car tuning and styling.

Apperantly the bio-diesel would actually be better for the engine as it provides greater lubrication, and so reduces wear and tear.

In refernce to the fitting of the magnets, you say that you think I would put them on the fuel pipe between the filter and the high pressure fuel pump. Where are these located? I might give them a try and see.

Saving measures; part 1:-

1. Remove 1 wheel thereby reducing road friction.

2. Fit larger diameter tyres/wheels so they rotate fewer times at any given speed

3. Remove seats so no passengers add to weight

4. Use red diesel - the engine won't run right but who cares

5. Convert to propane and use propane from a neighbours gas tank in their garden

6. Ever heard of the effects of electro-magnetism? Its what happens after a nuclear bomb goes off and knackers yer brain.

7. Join the AA Relay service so you get towed on long journeys

8. Buy a pram and fit a wheelchair motor to it, n Battery

9. Start stealing scrap metal and selling it (Jaguars are good for this)

[anchorman]

In this photo you can see the approximate location of the fuel filter with the green arrow. It looks lake an aluminium cylinder with rubber hoses at the top. One of the hoses makes its way accross to the fuel pump which is on the drivers side down near the radiator at the front of the engine (red arrow)

If the instructions call for you to put it between the pump (green circle) and the injectors, attch it to the high pressure supply pipe (red arrow).

This is the fuel filter on mine but it looks the same as yours with the black plunger on top;

[Hoovie]

Saving measures; part 1:-

1. Remove 1 wheel thereby reducing road friction.

2. Fit larger diameter tyres/wheels so they rotate fewer times at any given speed

3. Remove seats so no passengers add to weight

4. Use red diesel - the engine won't run right but who cares

5. Convert to propane and use propane from a neighbours gas tank in their garden

6. Ever heard of the effects of electro-magnetism? Its what happens after a nuclear bomb goes off and knackers yer brain.

7. Join the AA Relay service so you get towed on long journeys

8. Buy a pram and fit a wheelchair motor to it, n battery

9. Start stealing scrap metal and selling it (Jaguars are good for this)

That was a popular trick of students when they go from home to university and then back at end of term. I think that is one of the reasons the AA and RAC put a limit of how many recoveries they will do for a member each year :)

[riscyrich]

All the magnetic fuel devices are snake oil. Passing fuel through a magnetic field would have no measurable effect on its properties, if it did then when it passed through fuel pump (electric motor), injectors (solenoids) etc then surely they would have this magical effect on the fuel?

Fuel Economy

I have often wondered about fuel economy and how to improve it as it often seemed that whenever Liz drove our family cars (Rav4, BMW 518SE & MX5) the cars it did a lot better – even if I drove like a jessie). Took me a while to work it out but it basically boiled down to how ‘hard’ I accelerated.

Say for example you are at a set of lights and the speed limit is 50mph. You launch from the lights and nail it in second up to 50, no doubt using WOT (wide open throttle) you will use LOTS more fuel than slowly accelerating up to 50 using gears and changing at around 3000 revs etc; even though you got up to speed quicker. Lets not forget that at WOT the ECU will increase the pulse width of the injectors so more fuel goes in. The BMW is great for noticing the effect due to the MPG gauge.

Also the fuel consumption at high speeds can be drastically effected by drag (open windows, sunroofs, dropping the top on convertibles). Dropping the top on our MX5 can reduce fuel consumption buy up to 5MPG at high speeds.

Wrong tyre pressure is a classic one as well, keeping on top of this will genuinely save you £££'s

The last and most obvious being speed, the further you stray from 55-60mph the worse your MPG. I have done two runs to London over the past few weeks with Liz and the twins and cargo, both 400 mile round trips. The 1st run I leisurely wondered down the M1 and back, the second time I got the pedal to the metal. The difference in the amount of fuel left in the tank (70 litre jobbie) was astounding.

Regular services are also a good way to save fuel, using a good quality synthetic oils can not only increase MPG but also performance.

Top tips :

1) Check tyre pressures regularly

2) Keep windows up at high speed

3) Run injector cleaner through at every service

4) Don’t coast - the ECU will reduce the pulse width of the injectors when de-accelerating in gear, braking etc – probably to less than the idle speed pulse width – oh and it’s illegal. Long periods on idle is no good for CAT's, o2 sensors etc

5) Accelerate gently -- unless you're at the lights and someone is inching forward and challenging you, in which case nail the !Removed! B)

6) If you have an auto gearbox slip it into neutral when sat in traffic or lights and use your handbrake

7) Get some hose pipe and siphon fuel from next doors car :-D

8) Move next door to a petrol station and tunnel from underneath your house into their underground tanks

Rich

[anchorman]

Good point about coasting Rich. It can also knacker the gearbox as the input shaft often feeds the countershafts with oil. It is why the prop shaft should be removed for towing.

Incidentally for anyone with a 4.3 that comes up for an MOT next spring (when they become 3 years old) the VSC must be disabled to avoid trashing the transmission.

[Boro Sera]

Saving measures; part 1:-

1. Remove 1 wheel thereby reducing road friction.

2. Fit larger diameter tyres/wheels so they rotate fewer times at any given speed

3. Remove seats so no passengers add to weight

4. Use red diesel - the engine won't run right but who cares

5. Convert to propane and use propane from a neighbours gas tank in their garden

6. Ever heard of the effects of electro-magnetism? Its what happens after a nuclear bomb goes off and knackers yer brain.

7. Join the AA Relay service so you get towed on long journeys

8. Buy a pram and fit a wheelchair motor to it, n battery

9. Start stealing scrap metal and selling it (Jaguars are good for this)

Hmmmmmm, you missed an obvious one on this list Bothy -

10. If your RAV is a 5 door then you can lighten the load by removing the 2 rear ones. This will have the added advantage of making it a 3 door RAV and therefore better ! :P :P

[chatman]

Hmmmmmm, you missed an obvious one on this list Bothy -

10. If your RAV is a 5 door then you can lighten the load by removing the 2 rear ones. This will have the added advantage of making it a 3 door RAV and therefore better ! :P :P

Oi.....Don't feed him more info..............We have enough trouble as it is.... :P :P :P :P :P :P

[Hoovie]

did you hear that story about the couple in a campervan heard someone prowling around outside and not wanting a confrontation, stayed inside and heard him removing the petrol from their tank?

except .... the bright spark didn't get the right tank cap and siphoned out the waste water.

bet that tasted yummy in the siphon tube :D

[Guest Snowy3]

5) Accelerate gently -- unless you're at the lights and someone is inching forward and challenging you, in which case nail the !Removed! cool.gif

i like it Rich! made me laugh - typical male!!

[local hero]

did you hear that story about the couple in a campervan heard someone prowling around outside and not wanting a confrontation, stayed inside and heard him removing the petrol from their tank?

except .... the bright spark didn't get the right tank cap and siphoned out the waste water.

bet that tasted yummy in the siphon tube :D

I bet they were just taking the p*ss :D

[Fujisan]

Incidentally for anyone with a 4.3 that comes up for an MOT next spring (when they become 3 years old) the VSC must be disabled to avoid trashing the transmission.

Please can I ask you to explain that a bit further?

[chatman]

Incidentally for anyone with a 4.3 that comes up for an MOT next spring (when they become 3 years old) the VSC must be disabled to avoid trashing the transmission.

Please can I ask you to explain that a bit further?

Probably along the same lines as the 4.2 DMF... when the RAV 4.3 comes upto out of warranty time...if the VSC goes it's gona cost you a flocking fortune to put right :unsure: :unsure:

O and back to Topic....I change up gears at 2500 rpm and don't race away at the lights ... just like to give the scooter riders a good lung full every now and then.. :blowup: ..well they sit right up my ***** revving there putt putt bikes...

Snug in behind the trucks on the motorway...not in any rush to get to work..Even gonna leave my RAV at friends house who live 2 miles from work.. and cycle the rest of way into office (have showers there so can freshen up OK) and also miss the worst part of the journey that can take upto 30 mins, sat in school run traffic and mothers driving kids to school :crazy:

[Fujisan]

Incidentally for anyone with a 4.3 that comes up for an MOT next spring (when they become 3 years old) the VSC must be disabled to avoid trashing the transmission.

Please can I ask you to explain that a bit further?

Probably along the same lines as the 4.2 DMF... when the RAV 4.3 comes upto out of warranty time...if the VSC goes it's gona cost you a flocking fortune to put right :unsure: :unsure:

Nothing so certain as it'll cost a flocking arm 'n' leg to fix, if it goes pop.

[anchorman]

Incidentally for anyone with a 4.3 that comes up for an MOT next spring (when they become 3 years old) the VSC must be disabled to avoid trashing the transmission.

Please can I ask you to explain that a bit further?

Yes Fuj - with pleasure.

The VSC is such that if you use conventional means (brake roller tester with one wheel being tested at a time) it will pick that up as the vehicle out of control as one wheel is turning and 3 are not (it cannot detect that the vehicle is stationary because there is a speed sensor on each wheel [used for vehicle speed detection rather than ABS operation]- very unusual). As some 4.3s will be due for first test next year I thought it might be helpful to mention that the VSC must be disabled otherwise when the first wheel turns in isolation from the others it will try to lock up the transmission in 4WD and the brake tester will force the wheel against the locked transmission. Serious damage could result as you will be trying to haul a ton and a half out of the brake roller by one wheel against partially applied brakes because you are pressing the brake pedal!!! Its a bit of RAV tansmission/VSC infighting thing!

A main dealer will install his DLC3 tester and set it to "brake test" which will kill everything. However, I for one will not be going to the dealer for MOT (purely as a matter of convenience) and if anyone else has similar plans then the VSC has to be disabled. There is another way but it is a lot of flocking about. So here are the 3 ways of doing it without the DLC3 tester;

1. Use the press brake/hand brake method described here;

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.p...mp;#entry707773

2. Use a piece of wire to short out the pins 4 and 12 of the DLC plug shown here;

3. Then there is the flock about method which requires the other wheels to be allowed to turn while the individual brakes are tested (albeit fail safe as no damage can be done). It means the car has to be lifted to get the remaining wheels off the ground and the handbrake off so that all wheels can turn freely when the transmission locks up - like this;

Remember that this also has to be done when testing the rear wheels and the tester is going to love that! The easiest way is in disabling the VSC as described in either 1. or 2. above. The first is easy enough with a bit of practice and the second needs a bit of confidence but is also easy (the plug is right by the bonnet pull). I printed the first procedure and left it in the glove box. Just remember that when taking the car for test you need to disable it but the first time the ignition is switched off the VSC will reset itself.

I would hate anyone to cause a lot of damage to thier car so I thought it would be helpful to mention it

Regards

PS I will be off line soon for hols!

[local hero]

Incidentally for anyone with a 4.3 that comes up for an MOT next spring (when they become 3 years old) the VSC must be disabled to avoid trashing the transmission.

Please can I ask you to explain that a bit further?

PS I will be off line soon for hols!

have a good hols AM, I have your mobile number, if any of us need your help while your away, :D :D :D

[chatman]

PS I will be off line soon for hols!

Take it your not taking the train then!!!!!!! :P :P :P :P :P :P

[Hoovie]

PS I will be off line soon for hols!

have a good hols AM, I have your mobile number, if any of us need your help while your away, :D :D :D

Could you post the number here so we can all call anchorman quickly if we need to :) :)

Only Joking ;) Just PM it to me ..... I don't want to be stuck in a call queue

Have a good break, Mr AM