ST205 GT4 vs. Escort Cosworth T35

[Michael]

Does anyone know of any review done on the ST205 GT4 against the Cossie? I'm seriously considering a 97 GT4 but probably have to give up my Cossie to make room for it. Whilst the Cossie has been fun, I'm tired of that huge lag even with the AB chip and injector upgrade. Is the GT4 any better in terms of turbo lag and what's the basic route to up power to 300rwhp level? TIA

Michael

94 Cossie T34

95 Mkiv TT BPU++

91 R32 GTR

94 LS400

[ep82]

Are you mad? Keep the Escort Cossie.

[screech]

the gt4 will have less lag, 300bhp is achieved with induction, decat and exhaust, unichip and maybe w.i. or uprated intercooler. it's not as easy to get big power from but it'll have a lot less lag than the cossie.

the cossie is a performance icon though, the gt4 isn't. the cossie will get more admiring looks and greater respect.

[Uncle Bob]

Michael. i have some spec for you, from a road test...

0-60, GT4 5.9, cos 6.3.

Top Speed,140 ,c138.

Qtr mile, 14.6, c15.0.

BHP,239, c224.

GT4 also has better fuel consumption, and much bigger brakes all round.

[djdna2000]

AHAHA LOL LMFAO "The cossie is a performance icon and will get greater respect"

The GT4 won several WRC championships (both drivers and contructors), and isn't made out of bean cans. The Escort Cosworth didn't and is respectively.

Sure, the GT-Four is a little porky, but they were built as homologations specials with a fair number of components designed to withstand the rigours of rallying. They are pretty reliable and after the skyline and supra engines, the 3S-GTE is the most moddable lump around. I can name at least 10 examples of 3S-GTE buildups in excess of 550 bhp, some in excess of 600, and one at 989 bhp (dropped into the Top Secret Supra, until they swapped it out for a skyline lump).

No offence to owners of said Fords, I quite like the essie cosworths actually, but they are (like Imprezas) Tesco-shopping-mobiles with powerful engines, not a rally bred sports legend.

edited to say something constructive as well:

To get to 300hp at the wheels, remember is 4WD so you get higher transmission losses. I would say you will be looking at up to 400 fly to get 300 wheel hp. To do that, I'd say you'll need some other way of controlling timing/fuelling (e.g. dastek, or even better Apexi Power FC), fpr, fuel pump, exhaust, filter, water injection, hybridised turbo. Perhaps some bigger injectors though you may be OK without as stockers are 540cc/min.

The stock rods/crank are good for 600 hp, but the pistons will require swapping for forged ones much beyond 400 bhp I reckon. As with all attempts to mod engines, if you do it carefully then it will take it, if you try for big power by skimping in some areas then you will like as not break something!

[screech]

i've seen a magazine get 0-60 in 4.7secs in a standard escort cossie. a standard escort cossie should clock 60 in under 6 secs

[Leeky]

COSSIE!!! VS GT4!!!

GT4 will own a cossie!

Ford Cosworths a ******* and i dont care what people say!

GT4's are amazing cars, a jap import GT4 is 255bhp standard. Removing the cat and along with a decent exhaust will give you about 30bhp increase and with the right induction kit and supercip 300bhp isnt hard.

I've eaten R33's for breakfast im my GT4.

B)

[NDR008]

YEAH RIGHT ON!! DONNO what's the flippin fuss about this damn cossies, they ain't too superb lookin. THey defenitly ain't the fastest road car. And i donno why most ppl give those damn cars so much street cred.

Welll, iw ould definetly swap for a GT4, then again, i prolly would have never got a cossie in the first place ;)

[Riddles]

Make no mistake, the GT4 is a quality motor, however, the cossie is a complete symbol of big power and jealous looks. Cosworth are and will always be one of the greatest engine companies, thats a common fact, and in the Escort cossie they got a **** quick and highly tunable engine into a car that is light enough to really make use of it. And as for 6.3 to sixty as stock, thats a small lie isn't it? Try 5.8.

Its a tough call. The Cossie is a car I have to own before I get old and loose the ability to see kerbs, but the GT4 is a whole lot of car for the money. I'm glad I'm a student and only have to worry about the upcoming MOT for my little Gt-i 16. Which I love of course...

-RIDDLES-

[scoobyspanker]

I love GT4's but a cossie will be faster to 60, my mate has a st205 other pal has a SierraCossie, the cossie's book speed to 60 is slower but in real life, it kicks the GT4's *****. I would rather have the GT4 anyday ;) it is a better car handles better, looks better, better build quality!

[NDR008]

Whatever it is, i don't ever want to own a Ford, and defenitly not the overesteemated cossie.

[adi]

If youre gonna go GT4 why not just go the bit extra and go supra.. it'll trounce both of them :P

[scoobyspanker]

we'll see about that on a rainy day! ;)

[ScreechXl]

Just thought i'd add my 2 pence,

If you are noticing turbo lag my guess is that you have the older rear wheel drive esccort which has the large turbo. Advantages of this are the fact that you can tune this up to big bhp, down side the turbo takes longer to spin up.

The later escort is four wheel drive (makes a huge difference to handling if a little less fun cos of no tail sliding!) has a smaller turbo and does not suffer from turbo lag, down side is tuning is limited a stage one chip and exhaust is all you can do really.

A lot of people by the small turbo 4X4 and then bolt on the large turbo (or hybrid) to get the best of both worlds.

But as a final point-There is a massive difference in the engines being considered-don't forget that the cosworth 2 litre engine is designed to easily produced well over 500 bhp, and is running in a very low tune state as standard to produce around 230bhp. There's a chap in the midlands building a cosworth engine that should produce 700bhp! not bad for a 2 litre!!!!!!!!

The standard japanese 2 litre engines (toyota celica, mitsubshi evo and subaru impreza) have a limit of around 350 bhp because they are already highly tuned out of the factory.

This may sound like i hate jap cars-not true I'm currently on the loo out for a 96 ish celica-gorgeous car, alot cheaper!

But its not in the same league as the 4wd cossie- and i speak from experience!

[scoobyspanker]

good points there m8ty, the Supra is an exception, that will do most cossies, plus it can be tuned to over 1000bhp :o ...but is is a massive engine, as far as 2.0 engines go, cossies kick ***** dude!

[dosenöffner]

I think this is what you are looking for. Nice Kiwi article. :D

[scoobyspanker]

nice, but we need to see a battle with 2 standard cars ;)

[NDR008]

Celica GT4!!!!!!!!!!!! (Got my new 4E-FTE engine btw ppl!)

[Guest Calum]

I think for my judgement, i shall go with the "Jane'o'meter". Definately the most accurate and scientific ways of measuring cars.

And so the GT4 wins!!!

[Deejay]

Stats UK -

Escort Cosworth: BHP=227, 0-60mph=5.7, topspeed=144mph

Celica st205: BHP=239, 0-60mph=6.1 topspeed=153

so there you have it escort 0-60 and celica quicker topspeed. I would have a GT4 over a cossie. I mean the stylings better and the escorts got wideboy written all over it

[Jonty]

Nobody has mentioned what ford really stands for......Fix...Or...Repair...Daily!! and this is so true.

I have owned a cosworth, bought in standard form, and took it up to 350bhp (thks to MADevelopments!)

As much as i truly loved the power :D :D :D The constant unreliability drove me round the bend. To the extent that i would never consider another one. Was i unlucky? I don't think so- i was in th RS owners club with 4 other cossie owning friend's, and there was NEVER a time when we all had are car's on the road at the same time.

But since then i have owned two Mr2 turbo's (same 3s-gte engine as the GT4) and i can honestly say i have had not one engine problem yet. As much as i like modifying my car's and i except the responsibilty of increased pressure on the engine, i do expect a higher level of reliability than a cossie can offer. I hope the focus cosworth can help improve a tarnished reputation. Until then,Cosworth..........R.I.P. B)

[ae111sr]

The standard japanese 2 litre engines (toyota celica, mitsubshi evo and subaru impreza) have a limit of around 350 bhp because they are already highly tuned out of the factory.

Looks like someone here doesn't know about the Fensport Corolla. Take a look at http://www.fensport.co.uk/fensportcarsfile...E125techfen.htm and you might revise the above statement

[ScreechXl]

Looking at the lists of work thats possibly the most modified two litre jap engine I've ever seen, so although i was 49bhp out I don't think I'll revise my statement too much, a cos woth engine with that much work on it would produce nearer 600bhp!

Still good work-bet that baby is a handful!

[ep82]

If you are noticing turbo lag my guess is that you have the older rear wheel drive esccort which has the large turbo.

A RWD Escort Cosworth? I thought all the Escort Cosworths where 4WD.

[dosenöffner]

350bhp on Jap 2 litres is about the limit..... on stock internals.

But there's more to it than that. I wouldn't run much more than 350ft/lbs of torque through a standard Impreza gearbox.

Nor would I run standard brakes at those figures. Or a standard radiator.

Get the picture?

:!Removed!: