Mmt. Problem

[Hossam Kamal]

I googled the car, and I found that what we have here in Egypt and the Middle East as Corolla is what call Auris Europe.

Mine is the all new 2008 model, with MMT Transmission with flap shifts.

The one we get here in Egypt is assembled in South Africa, besides the new technology of MMT, it is equipped also with an all new Dual VVTI engine, 1.6 Liters. The agent here says this car is the one to be distributed in Europe too.

In the Gulf area though, they still get the Japanese assembled corolla, which is the very same car but with the old engine and automatic transmission from the previous generation.

Anyways, my problem, which is not an isolated one as most new corolla owners with MMT here face it also, is sometimes when I slow down while on "E" and gears shift down to 1st, and then try to pull up again, the gear stuck in 1st and will not shift up to 2nd, 3rd, …etc., and the engine over revs. to 4000 or 5000 without shifting up. I found out, by chance, that I can maneuver this problem by shifting up by the manual flap pedal, while still on "E" so the car will actually shift to 2nd and then the "E" will take it normally from there.

Toyota agent in Egypt admits the problem but has not got any clue about the solution.

Also, the "E" is jerky in normal shifts, but I guess all steptronics, tiptronics, easytronics, are all the same, aren't they?

[Speed_Chaser]

I googled the car, and I found that what we have here in Egypt and the Middle East as Corolla is what call Auris Europe.

Mine is the all new 2008 model, with MMT Transmission with flap shifts.

The one we get here in Egypt is assembled in South Africa, besides the new technology of MMT, it is equipped also with an all new Dual VVTI engine, 1.6 Liters. The agent here says this car is the one to be distributed in Europe too.

In the Gulf area though, they still get the Japanese assembled corolla, which is the very same car but with the old engine and automatic transmission from the previous generation.

Anyways, my problem, which is not an isolated one as most new corolla owners with MMT here face it also, is sometimes when I slow down while on "E" and gears shift down to 1st, and then try to pull up again, the gear stuck in 1st and will not shift up to 2nd, 3rd, …etc., and the engine over revs. to 4000 or 5000 without shifting up. I found out, by chance, that I can maneuver this problem by shifting up by the manual flap pedal, while still on "E" so the car will actually shift to 2nd and then the "E" will take it normally from there.

Toyota agent in Egypt admits the problem but has not got any clue about the solution.

Also, the "E" is jerky in normal shifts, but I guess all steptronics, tiptronics, easytronics, are all the same, aren't they?

Hello Hossam! I have same problem with my Auris which has MM-T too... The gears stuck on 1st sometimes! My Toyota agent doesn't admit any problem and says that car is working normally. If you'll find out what it's all about and how it can be fixed, please post it on this topic so I could tell my agent where to look!

Best regards, Alex

[Hossam Kamal]

I googled the car, and I found that what we have here in Egypt and the Middle East as Corolla is what call Auris Europe.

Mine is the all new 2008 model, with MMT Transmission with flap shifts.

The one we get here in Egypt is assembled in South Africa, besides the new technology of MMT, it is equipped also with an all new Dual VVTI engine, 1.6 Liters. The agent here says this car is the one to be distributed in Europe too.

In the Gulf area though, they still get the Japanese assembled corolla, which is the very same car but with the old engine and automatic transmission from the previous generation.

Anyways, my problem, which is not an isolated one as most new corolla owners with MMT here face it also, is sometimes when I slow down while on "E" and gears shift down to 1st, and then try to pull up again, the gear stuck in 1st and will not shift up to 2nd, 3rd, …etc., and the engine over revs. to 4000 or 5000 without shifting up. I found out, by chance, that I can maneuver this problem by shifting up by the manual flap pedal, while still on "E" so the car will actually shift to 2nd and then the "E" will take it normally from there.

Toyota agent in Egypt admits the problem but has not got any clue about the solution.

Also, the "E" is jerky in normal shifts, but I guess all steptronics, tiptronics, easytronics, are all the same, aren't they?

Hello Hossam! I have same problem with my Auris which has MM-T too... The gears stuck on 1st sometimes! My Toyota agent doesn't admit any problem and says that car is working normally. If you'll find out what it's all about and how it can be fixed, please post it on this topic so I could tell my agent where to look!

Best regards, Alex

Dear Alex,

My Toyota agent in Egypt also dosen't admit with this probelm but my frined send a complaint to Toyota Japan he have the same problem in his car, unfortunately no reply up till now

[Mister MMT]

Dear Hossam and Alex,

may I suggest you both write to Toyota UK? Your cars are under garantee and your dealers should find a solution. I'll be interested to hear about the outcome.

Good luck

Jan

[Hossam Kamal]

any comment else!!!!

[Hossam Kamal]

any comment else!!!!

any comment else!!!! :(

[bjw]

Dear Hossam and Alex,

may I suggest you both write to Toyota UK? Your cars are under guarantee and your dealers should find a solution. I'll be interested to hear about the outcome.

Good luck

Jan

As they are based in Egypt ( Toyota Africa)and Finland (Toyota Europe) Toyota GB would have no interest in there problems

[Hossam Kamal]

As they are based in Egypt ( Toyota Africa)and Finland (Toyota Europe) Toyota GB would have no interest in there problems

Yes , But if there are any one faced this problem in UK , tell us and we can submit our problem as a group to Toyota company

[Mohamed El-Shinnawy]

Dear Hossam,

I think you might make good use out of this forum thread:

Mmt problems

And specifically this:

Hi all you disgruntled MMT owners. I'm a Toyota technician, and believe me it's not easy from this side either. I've had one Corolla Verso with real problems. I couldn't fix it and we eventually arranged for it to go into the factory workshop in Surrey. They had it for a month before declaring it fixed. Trouble is the owner won't take it back so I don't know if it's cured or not.

It is true to say there are cars with faults, but I hadn't realised the extent of the problem until I read these posts. I thought "you will always get a few problems with new technology but most will be all right".

Let me start by explaining the transmission arrangement. The gearbox is an ordinary 5 speed manual box with a manual friction clutch. The differences come with the control system. The gear selection process is taken care of by two electric motors, one for across the gate and one for engagement. Both motors have very sensitive sensors attached that measure their position extremely accurately. Down to one hundreth of a millimetre. The clutch is controlled by another electric motor, again fitted with a very sensitive sensor with the same accuracy as the selector motors. The engine speed, road speed and throttle position are all fed into the transmission control unit where the decisions are made as to what gear to be in and how to control the clutch. The control unit will do it's best to be in the right gear at the right time, but don't forget there is no input from the road. It can't know that there is a hill coming up or that you are going to stop quickly etc. Regarding the driving technique, you need to throw away all you have leaned from manual boxes and likewise for auto boxes. This box has a rule book of its own. From the road tests that I've done, I've found that flooring the throttle in E mode produces a reasonable journey, if a little jerky. This is no good for town work though. You can go the route of holding a steady throttle, and allowing the transmission to do the rest- I've found that to be very uncomfortable. As the engine power is reduced ready for a gear change, your body is thrown forwards, matched by a correspoding lurch backwards as the power comes back in. The best technique I've found is to press the throttle to take of from rest, just a little bit more than you would do normally. Then, when you are ready for a gear change, lift off the throttle and let it change. After the change feed the power back in and you get a smooth change. Do this for all gear changes up the box (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, etc) Coming down the box, say for a junction, let the box decide what gear to be in and then ease on the throttle to take off/increase speed. Try to avoid punching the throttle on as this will be interpreted by the system as a demand for more power and a change down. The engine will then "flare" (revs will rise, but no drive), and the box selects neutral to avoid damage. When the control unit decides it is safe to do so, it will engage a gear and let you drive. During hill climbing, your road speed will drop as the engine can't maintain your speed in the current gear. Keep increasing the throttle opening until the box changes down a gear. A specific complaint is when climbing a long hill the box keeps changing from E2 to E3 and back again. The reason for this is because in E3 there is not enough power to maintain your speed, so you slow down, the box changes down to E2, now there is enough power to accelerate you up to the point where you can change to E3, and the cycle starts again. To avoid this annoying cycle, just pop into manual mode and stay in E2 until you reach the top of the hill, then back into E mode.

Moving on to manouvering, especially backwards, try to get the clutch engaged fully if you can. If not, don't worry, there will be a bit of a smell, like burning or hot rubber. This is horrible, but quite normal. Since clutch friction plates no longer contain asbestos, for safety reasons, the alternative friction material produces this horrible smell in use. The smell will disperse quickly. If you are travelling up hill, forwards or backwards, so slowly that the clutch is slipping all the time, you will cause smell and possibly smoke and probably damage. There is no temperature sensor in the clutch, so the system works out the theoretical temperature from the work that it is doing. If the clutch overheat warning sounds then stop and let things cool before proceeding.

Reading Jane's post about hill descent, when the control unit sees throttle backed off, foot on the brakes and slowing down, it will change down for you to produce engine brake. Once your speed is under control try easing off the brake and let the engine do the work of slowing you down. When you get to the bottom of the hill, ease on the throttle rather than punch it on, as the system will see that as a demand for more power and change down.

With regard to the driving technique, I'm not being critical of anybody who has trouble with MMT transmissions, just trying to re-educate them. I once had to deal with an irate lady customer who had trouble with her MMT. Usual story- clutch slip, smoke and smell and loss of drive. When I suggested that she would have to modify her driving technique, she went ballistic and told me that she had been driving 50 years and didn't need to change now. She wouldn't listen and went away very unhappy.

I'm very sorry to hear of all the problems you have been having. I hope that this huge post may have helped you understand how your transmission works and how to get the best out of it.

BTW regarding modern fully automatic gearboxes:- when the engine speed and road speed are matched, the torque converter is locked up with a special clutch and there is no loss of power. This clutch unlocks as soon as the system detects a drop in road speed.

If you have a specific problem relating to MMT transmission and its operation, please post here and I will do my best to provide an explanation/answer.

Cheers Ray

I was honestly planning to buy a new 2008 Corolla, but seeing all these problems and knowing that Toyota Egypt doesn't provide any Test-drive options, I have no choice but to put a hold on my decision on buying this car, I might even choose to buy the new Civic or Lancer.

Regards,

Mohamed El-Shinnawy.

[Ayman Saad]

Dear Hossam,

I think you might make good use out of this forum thread:

Mmt problems

And specifically this:

Hi all you disgruntled MMT owners. I'm a Toyota technician, and believe me it's not easy from this side either. I've had one Corolla Verso with real problems. I couldn't fix it and we eventually arranged for it to go into the factory workshop in Surrey. They had it for a month before declaring it fixed. Trouble is the owner won't take it back so I don't know if it's cured or not.

It is true to say there are cars with faults, but I hadn't realised the extent of the problem until I read these posts. I thought "you will always get a few problems with new technology but most will be all right".

Let me start by explaining the transmission arrangement. The gearbox is an ordinary 5 speed manual box with a manual friction clutch. The differences come with the control system. The gear selection process is taken care of by two electric motors, one for across the gate and one for engagement. Both motors have very sensitive sensors attached that measure their position extremely accurately. Down to one hundreth of a millimetre. The clutch is controlled by another electric motor, again fitted with a very sensitive sensor with the same accuracy as the selector motors. The engine speed, road speed and throttle position are all fed into the transmission control unit where the decisions are made as to what gear to be in and how to control the clutch. The control unit will do it's best to be in the right gear at the right time, but don't forget there is no input from the road. It can't know that there is a hill coming up or that you are going to stop quickly etc. Regarding the driving technique, you need to throw away all you have leaned from manual boxes and likewise for auto boxes. This box has a rule book of its own. From the road tests that I've done, I've found that flooring the throttle in E mode produces a reasonable journey, if a little jerky. This is no good for town work though. You can go the route of holding a steady throttle, and allowing the transmission to do the rest- I've found that to be very uncomfortable. As the engine power is reduced ready for a gear change, your body is thrown forwards, matched by a correspoding lurch backwards as the power comes back in. The best technique I've found is to press the throttle to take of from rest, just a little bit more than you would do normally. Then, when you are ready for a gear change, lift off the throttle and let it change. After the change feed the power back in and you get a smooth change. Do this for all gear changes up the box (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, etc) Coming down the box, say for a junction, let the box decide what gear to be in and then ease on the throttle to take off/increase speed. Try to avoid punching the throttle on as this will be interpreted by the system as a demand for more power and a change down. The engine will then "flare" (revs will rise, but no drive), and the box selects neutral to avoid damage. When the control unit decides it is safe to do so, it will engage a gear and let you drive. During hill climbing, your road speed will drop as the engine can't maintain your speed in the current gear. Keep increasing the throttle opening until the box changes down a gear. A specific complaint is when climbing a long hill the box keeps changing from E2 to E3 and back again. The reason for this is because in E3 there is not enough power to maintain your speed, so you slow down, the box changes down to E2, now there is enough power to accelerate you up to the point where you can change to E3, and the cycle starts again. To avoid this annoying cycle, just pop into manual mode and stay in E2 until you reach the top of the hill, then back into E mode.

Moving on to manouvering, especially backwards, try to get the clutch engaged fully if you can. If not, don't worry, there will be a bit of a smell, like burning or hot rubber. This is horrible, but quite normal. Since clutch friction plates no longer contain asbestos, for safety reasons, the alternative friction material produces this horrible smell in use. The smell will disperse quickly. If you are travelling up hill, forwards or backwards, so slowly that the clutch is slipping all the time, you will cause smell and possibly smoke and probably damage. There is no temperature sensor in the clutch, so the system works out the theoretical temperature from the work that it is doing. If the clutch overheat warning sounds then stop and let things cool before proceeding.

Reading Jane's post about hill descent, when the control unit sees throttle backed off, foot on the brakes and slowing down, it will change down for you to produce engine brake. Once your speed is under control try easing off the brake and let the engine do the work of slowing you down. When you get to the bottom of the hill, ease on the throttle rather than punch it on, as the system will see that as a demand for more power and change down.

With regard to the driving technique, I'm not being critical of anybody who has trouble with MMT transmissions, just trying to re-educate them. I once had to deal with an irate lady customer who had trouble with her MMT. Usual story- clutch slip, smoke and smell and loss of drive. When I suggested that she would have to modify her driving technique, she went ballistic and told me that she had been driving 50 years and didn't need to change now. She wouldn't listen and went away very unhappy.

I'm very sorry to hear of all the problems you have been having. I hope that this huge post may have helped you understand how your transmission works and how to get the best out of it.

BTW regarding modern fully automatic gearboxes:- when the engine speed and road speed are matched, the torque converter is locked up with a special clutch and there is no loss of power. This clutch unlocks as soon as the system detects a drop in road speed.

If you have a specific problem relating to MMT transmission and its operation, please post here and I will do my best to provide an explanation/answer.

Cheers Ray

I was honestly planning to buy a new 2008 Corolla, but seeing all these problems and knowing that Toyota Egypt doesn't provide any Test-drive options, I have no choice but to put a hold on my decision on buying this car, I might even choose to buy the new Civic or Lancer.

Regards,

Mohamed El-Shinnawy.

Dear Mohamed

You know the problem is that the Corolla has far better and more options than the Honda Civic which really makes the decision very hard to take should you Take an ordinary Civic with 150,000 pound or a Fully loaded Corolla with the same price, knowing that the Corolla is equiped with:

1. xenon lights... Not in the Civic

2. Rain Sensors... Not in Civic

3. Sports Rims 16 inch... Add 10000 pounds to buy it in Civic

4. 7 Air Bags... 2 in Civic

5. Smart Key... Not in Civic

6. Light Sensors... Not in Civic

7. Full audio system with 6 Speakers and 6 mp3 CDs... 2 door Speakers in Civic

8. Touch AC... Manual in Civic

9.142 Horse power... 140 in Civic

Really all those options make the decision very very hard..

Should any body help me please..

Regards

Ayman Saad

[don21]

Terrific post by Toyota technician.Thanks very much for taking the time.

[toyota mmt]

Dear Hossam,

I think you might make good use out of this forum thread:

Mmt problems

And specifically this:

I was honestly planning to buy a new 2008 Corolla, but seeing all these problems and knowing that Toyota Egypt doesn't provide any Test-drive options, I have no choice but to put a hold on my decision on buying this car, I might even choose to buy the new Civic or Lancer.

Regards,

Mohamed El-Shinnawy.

I just bought a toyota corolla . I'm very glad that I'm not alone I belive we should really voice our opion to toyota co-operation japan they will eventually call it back. It is not fair we should change our driving or take the bad smell of burnt anything . toyota has the responsiblity to please their customer not the other way around. It is their reputation that made them great and it will be their ignorance that will be their downfall.

As for Mohamed I only drove it for 500 kilo I bought it for 135000 egyptian pound added an alarm + fitted the seats with grey colour + lisence for three years will sell it for 125000. it is still under warrenty e-mail me at noble_varieties@yahoo.com if your intrested ( all you need to do is change your driving )

I have an appointment on sunday 8/3/2009 at the dealrship. But they told me it is a common problem and they are waitting for instructions from Japan. It is the south African we should never trust their quality. They are probably the one who came up with this s@#$ty technology .

thank jan for your trouble.

regards

[hedleyf]

:) Hi,

Love it or hate it its what you have chosen, want my personal view I think mmt is toilet, I think the Department of transport should ban them, I consider them unsafe and even considering not driving them anymore, the amount of times someone has flashed me out of a junction or off a line only to find the dam thing changing gear half way across the road is I think a accident waiting to happen, I never feel like I have control of the car god knows what other drivers think of ones driving style? I know there are ways around this but you should not have to do this, shame they had to use this system instead of a proper auto box as toyota autoboxs are very good.

[geoffb]

:) Hi,

Love it or hate it its what you have chosen, want my personal view I think mmt is toilet, I think the Department of transport should ban them, I consider them unsafe and even considering not driving them anymore, the amount of times someone has flashed me out of a junction or off a line only to find the dam thing changing gear half way across the road is I think a accident waiting to happen, I never feel like I have control of the car god knows what other drivers think of ones driving style? I know there are ways around this but you should not have to do this, shame they had to use this system instead of a proper auto box as toyota autoboxs are very good.

I have to be fair and admit to not having driven an MMT but I am lucky enough to have a full auto box in my Corolla which I find superb. The theory of the MMT system seems rather complex and I suspect was just engineered as an eco requirement. Mind you, the one telling question that someone may be able to answer on here is "does the equivalent of the Auris in Japan have an MMT or full auto box?". Just wonder whether Europe is something of a testing ground for MMT ;)

I accept that full autos are not as economical but I wouldn't want an MMT to be honest. There does seem to be a sizeable number of peeps with issues and not just the Auris either. But just a personal view of course. You pays your money and takes your choice as you suggest.

[Doush_CSF]

9.142 Horse power... 140 in Civic

Really all those options make the decision very very hard..

Should any body help me please..

Regards

Ayman Saad

The Corolla has 122 hp (91kW) & the Civic has 124 hp (93 kW)

it is IMPOSSIBLE for our 1.6 Corolla to have 142 hp while the 1.8 has 132

Same for the Civic

[teojil]

I recently bought a 2008 Corolla which had the same problem and I was almost ready to get rid of the car.

I contacted the dealer and they upgraded the onboard software.

Problem solved !

The transmission is now almot perfect, only a bit of delay in changing from 3 to 4 but I can live with that, nothing major.

R

[Christakis]

On 6/25/2008 at 8:46 AM, Hossam Kamal said:

any comment else!!!!

 

[furtula]

yes