3sge Engine Not Starting

[blackcat]

Hello folks, I'm hoping that someone has come across,solved this problem and can help me;

my 5th gen Celica(3SGE) has been parked up in garage for a few months,it will not start up at all now :ffs: (It ran fine beforehand)

Sparking at the plugleads look healthy.

I have checked the fuel pump pressure at the tank by accessing under the rear seat and checked the pressure at filter in the engine bay which read normal on the fuel press gauge.

Haynes manual instructions are to check the pressure at the cold start injector,this is impossible to do on my car as the inlet manifold is totally different to the one they show in their diagrams and the fuel rail is inaccessable without dismantling the inlet manifold partially. :(

However,I decided to partially dismantle the inlet manifold to get to the cold start banjo union but there was not one there,only a blanking bolt which is very difficult to get at :ffs: So Ive come to a dead end where I am pleading with you my fellow Celica colleagues to intervene and help

If I do get it "going" again I promise to write a post on it so that other struggling celica owners can benifit from this knowledge.

[Leeky]

Without sounding like im taking the *****.....is the Battery fully charged?

I mean if you car hasnt moved for a few months your Battery WILL have discharged.

Even on an almost dead Battery you should see sparking of some sort.

Is it even trying to turn over?

Hasnt frozen up in the cold weather no?

[blackcat]

Hi Leeky! thanks for replying.

The Battery is fine,fully charged.The engine turns over quite freely,theres a good healthy spark at the plugs.

I also put new petrol in the tank.

I suspect that the fuel is not getting thru' to the engine but the fuel pressure reads ok,fuel pump is ok,what the heck could it be?

Has anyone come across this problem?

[Leeky]

Sounds like your injectors have seized then.

It probably wont do anything but why not reset the ecu because on efi engines the ecu can sometimes get confused and resetting it can fix the most bizzare things

[blackcat]

Yep Leeky,I had my suspicions about the injectors but have you seen how hard they are to get at The inlet manifold loops over the top of the valve cover to a sort of plenum chamber.The !Removed! that designed that needs kicking! :ffs:

On the older Celica 3sge engine,it is very easy to access the fuel rail/components and remove the rocker cover why couldn't they stick to that design.

Anyway,how do I reset the ECU,worth a try?

[Leeky]

Yep Leeky,I had my suspicions about the injectors but have you seen how hard they are to get at The inlet manifold loops over the top of the valve cover to a sort of plenum chamber.The turd that designed that needs kicking! :ffs:

On the older Celica 3sge engine,it is very easy to access the fuel rail/components and remove the rocker cover why couldn't they stick to that design.

Anyway,how do I reset the ECU,worth a try?

Yeah thats what i say every time i try to do something to the celica. How the hell did they let this retard design the engine!

Anyway next to the air box under the bonnet is the fuse box. Lift off the lid and it tells you which fuses are which. Remove the ECU and EFI fuse for 15secs ( i always make sure by going and making a cup of tea :D )

This clears all the ecu settings for ignition/load etc.

Maybe your car will start after that.

Wouldnt of thought injectors though thinking about it. For all four to go is almost impossible. If one went the engine should still turn over on three.

Possibly a blockage between the injectors and the pump.

[blair]

hey there, iv got a similar problem with my 3sge. Randomly it just wont start. It tries to turn over but wont fire. eventually it does but it can take from 2 to 40 tries. It gives me the ****sIv replaced coil, sparkies, dizzy cap, dizzy lead n still nutin. There is a strange squeek/dry sucking noise from the rear left(guessing fuel pump?) i think thats what ill get looked at next. im no mechanic. any ideas to help anyone? cheers.

[blackcat]

Hi Blair,

doesnt seem like w'ere getting much help here does it

C'MON FELLAS ,A FREIND IN NEED....

Your problem sounds like the fuel pump.I had this trouble with an MR2 mk1 where I replaced the pump and it cured the problem.

If your car is the 4th gen Celica I think the only way to get to the pump is to remove the tank.Check up on this,Im not fully sure.

Be very careful messing about with petrol.Better off doing this job on a car lift.

[Leeky]

hey there, iv got a similar problem with my 3sge. Randomly it just wont start. It tries to turn over but wont fire. eventually it does but it can take from 2 to 40 tries. It gives me the ****sIv replaced coil, sparkies, dizzy cap, dizzy lead n still nutin. There is a strange squeek/dry sucking noise from the rear left(guessing fuel pump?) i think thats what ill get looked at next. im no mechanic. any ideas to help anyone? cheers.

If you need to remove the fuel pump i think in the boot there is a floor panel you can release which will give you access to the fuel pump, thats how you do it on the supra anyway ??

[Leeky]

Just out of curiosity Balckcat, have you tried to push start it?

Probably wont do anything but sometimes a bit of momentum and a load on the engine could force it to turn over.....you never know!

If fuel IS getting into the chambers it should turn over. No fuel but pressure on the pump would have to mean the fuel rail is blocked.

Push starting it may make enough pressure on the chambers to suck the blockage free.

Sorry but im kinda ****** into the wind here Running out of idea's apart from actually looking at the injectors there is nothing else to do. :(

[blackcat]

yeah Leaky, thought of that but the damn thing is an automatic . I could only find a Celica auto in convertible form. I have the same car in a hardtop manual g/box which is my normal runabout which runs like a dream and is clearly quicker than the auto slug!

Maybe this summer I may have a go at turning it into a 5spd manual but in the meantime Im going to have to fix this non starting prob.

Ive got most of inlet manifold chamber off,measured the resistances and voltages at the injectors,all ok.To take the fuel rail off to get the injectors out,all of the inlet manifold will have to be removed but very difficult to do due to the limited space between bulkhead & engine :ffs:

anyway,Its a bit cold to work up here in the NorthEast at present,so I'll resume when the weather picks up.

BTW I really appreciate your input/help towards this problem!

All the best & a happy new year!!! :hokus-pokus:

[Leeky]

BTW I really appreciate your input/help towards this problem!

All the best & a happy new year!!! :hokus-pokus:

No problem! Yeah you have a good new year too!

[celicaste]

Hi Blackcat where are you in north east as im in Redcar may be able to pop along and help you

[darwishb]

Hey Blackkat, just takeoff the half of the inlet Manifold,this is the part going over the Cylinderhead and connected to the Airfilter then remove the cylinderhead cover and u will have enough space to remove the feul injectors.....Removing the inlet manifild from the engine will be a big Problem and waste of time.i added a pic to tell which part i mean but i hope u have the same engine.....good luck

[blackcat]

Thanks for the reply Darwish

the engine is exactly the same.

Ive decided to do a headgasket job on it as it was running rough before I put it away for the winter.

I have two of these Celica,a black convrtible and a red fixed top.Its the black conv that is giving me all the problems.The red one I bought direct from a Jap import auction 3yrs ago & it is the best car Ive ever owned!

Ill let you know later on how I get on.At the moment Ive got my hands full with another project.

Celicaste,Im in Stockton.I used to work in your town many moons ago in the "ICI Wilton Hilton"....ahhh those were the days!!!

[celicaste]

I have a black gen 4 convertible also and work in stockton havent seen yours about

[blackcat]

Hi celica ste ,sorry for not replying earlier,Ive been preoccupied with a couple of other jobs(TR7V8 & MR2 import).

I got the convertible(gen5)near end last year & put it into hibernation for the winter! Bad move as the !Removed! wont fire up now :ffs: !

Just wondering,are you the chap who's recently sold the black conv. on eBay? If so why hav'nt you replied to my parts request?

I too also have a gen 4 conv. which I accidentally set on fire Ive nearly restored it but I need some roof parts ,hopefully this summer you may see it on the road.

Have you seen the lime green gen 4 conv Celica going around town?

[novamuncher]

did you set up the engine timing right on crankshaft pulley and camshafts? and did you move the distributor at all?

might be worth checking if they fireing at the right time (couldnt tell you how many degrees before tdc without looking at a manual)

the other thought ive had is to diagnose the ecu - might be a fault in there somewhere.

good luck