Supercharged Gen 7 Celicas

[PHILGTS]

ok, so my friend in another city tells me he just got a gen 7 celica GTS (UK 190) with a supercharger. I said "bullsh*t!" because I was under the impression that the compression ratio in the 2zzfe was too high to turbo it, let alone supercharge it!

so what's the deal? how is he getting away with supercharging his 2zzfe??

[Hogie]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/fi...ta_corolla.html

That a supercharged 2zz-ge

Lotus do one as well, think they get 240 bhp or something like that

You can buy kits for it after market i think

[PHILGTS]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/fi...ta_corolla.html

That a supercharged 2zz-ge

Lotus do one as well, think they get 240 bhp or something like that

You can buy kits for it after market i think

so does that mean that you have to swap one of these engines in then? if so, then does that mean can only be 250 supercharged celicas in the world??

[Hogie]

No, it the same engine as the normal 2zzge. They just have a supercharger bolted to it, ECU remapped and prob a few other small things.

You can buy a supercharge kit for it, someone was on about it on here before. Expensive thou.

What's your understanding of a supercharger?

In the UK they didnt bother with a supercharged celica, dont know about the rest of Europe.

[edamduke]

We supercharged my brother's 190. Wasn't too difficult and gave great results. Got the Greddy kit from the states thanks to the good exchange :P and quite literally bolted it on to the totally stock engine. Fuel mapping was the only tricky part and should be done by a good tuning shop.

You are right, the compression ratio is high on these cars but certainly not high enough to stop you charging it in anyway. It is far better suited to a supercharger due to 1) lower compression (6-8psi depending on your chosen pulley) than a turbo (13-15psi on the GT-Four for example) and 2) space restrictions. As mentioned before, Lotus sell supercharged engined cars using the 2ZZ-GE.

As long as you map the fuel properly, use cooler spark plugs and higher octane fuels, the car will run perfectly safely. There is always the option of a thicker head gasket to lower the compression should you want more boost, but IMO this will need to be 10psi+. Also you can always charge cool or water/methanol inject to combat det.

We have up to half a dozen SC gen7 on celica-club UK alone. So there is a few about. Definitely a mod worth doing to these cars as there is no other realistic way of getting more power out of these highly tuned units.

[celica140sport]

this sounds all too tempting...about how much would this cost after everything including the remapping?

[PHILGTS]

my understanding of a supercharger was that it is the same principle as a turbo charger; it pumps extra fuel into the engine, via a belt-driven system instead of exhaust-driven.

my understanding of the 2zzge is that it's 11:1 compression ratio means that dumping more fuel into one of them is a great way to make it go boom.

[Hogie]

my understanding of a supercharger was that it is the same principle as a turbo charger; it pumps extra fuel into the engine, via a belt-driven system instead of exhaust-driven.

my understanding of the 2zzge is that it's 11:1 compression ratio means that dumping more fuel into one of them is a great way to make it go boom.

Yea nearly, pumps extra air into the engine, can dump as much fuel as you like into an engine but if there isnt enough air there it cant be burnt, will just go out the exhaust again. More air you can get into the cylinder,more fuel you can burn more power you can get. Its a pump driven by the engine instead for the exhaust gases like a turbo, like you said

If toyota are going to produce a factory version of this method of forced induction must be ok, lotus seam to be getting away with it as well. Prob shorten the life of the engine alright with the extra stress.

But then again because you have more low down power with the supercharger kicking in you may not need to push the engine as hard, like all the way up to 8000rpm.

By the way whats the 2zz ge standard BHP on American fuel?

[PHILGTS]

my understanding of a supercharger was that it is the same principle as a turbo charger; it pumps extra fuel into the engine, via a belt-driven system instead of exhaust-driven.

my understanding of the 2zzge is that it's 11:1 compression ratio means that dumping more fuel into one of them is a great way to make it go boom.

Yea nearly, pumps extra air into the engine, can dump as much fuel as you like into an engine but if there isnt enough air there it cant be burnt, will just go out the exhaust again. More air you can get into the cylinder,more fuel you can burn more power you can get. Its a pump driven by the engine instead for the exhaust gases like a turbo, like you said

If toyota are going to produce a factory version of this method of forced induction must be ok, lotus seam to be getting away with it as well. Prob shorten the life of the engine alright with the extra stress.

But then again because you have more low down power with the supercharger kicking in you may not need to push the engine as hard, like all the way up to 8000rpm.

By the way whats the 2zz ge standard BHP on American fuel?

that's a good question. I should take it to the dyno while it's still stock.

so super/turbo chargers are just forced induction kits? it's not dumping extra fuel in too? (I just want to make sure I properly understand the concept)

[Hogie]

Yea, super and turbo charging are two different ways of driving a fan on the inlet side of the engine to force more air into the cylinder than if the engine was normally aspirated.

Its like with the lift at 6200rpm on the engine, although it not forced induction the amount of time the valve stay open is changed allowing more air to be sucked in to the cylinder which mean more fuel can be injected and burned meaning more energy can be released during combustion. Its all about achieving a high volumetric efficiency,getting more air into the cylinder before the valves close.

You will use more fuel if you supercharge the engine. It takes energy to run the supercharger, it puts a load on the engine, just like your air con compressor does. The more load on the engine the more fuel it will burn, also your burning more fuel during combustion because you have more air in the cylinder, but you get more power. You get nothing for free in this world.

The say the corolla compressors( that's the supercharged version) over this side of the pond are nicer car to drive everyday, more low down power. Dont have to rev them as hard to get the best from them.

[PHILGTS]

Yea, super and turbo charging are two different ways of driving a fan on the inlet side of the engine to force more air into the cylinder than if the engine was normally aspirated.

Its like with the lift at 6200rpm on the engine, although it not forced induction the amount of time the valve stay open is changed allowing more air to be sucked in to the cylinder which mean more fuel can be injected and burned meaning more energy can be released during combustion. Its all about achieving a high volumetric efficiency,getting more air into the cylinder before the valves close.

You will use more fuel if you supercharge the engine. It takes energy to run the supercharger, it puts a load on the engine, just like your air con compressor does. The more load on the engine the more fuel it will burn, also your burning more fuel during combustion because you have more air in the cylinder, but you get more power. You get nothing for free in this world.

The say the corolla compressors( that's the supercharged version) over this side of the pond are nicer car to drive everyday, more low down power. Dont have to rev them as hard to get the best from them.

thank you for the most comprehensive and easy-to-understand response I've gotten on TOC so far. thanks mate.

[edamduke]

You are right, the compression is high on this engine but as I said, as long as you take sensible precautions, there is always room for more air/fuel mix. 6-8psi I a relatively low level of boost compared with that produced by big turbos. The main concern with any forced induction motor is det. (pre-ignition). There will be extra stresses on components but we're only talking about a power increase of 20% or so. These engines are easily capable of taking this sort of increase without any danger.

Cost can vary immensely depending on the kit chosen, supplier and tuner. Also, most people will tell you you need to match other parts of the car eg, brakes, suspension etc. and come up with figures around £5k. The truth of the matter is that the SC kit will cost around £1.5k but this comes with everything including all hardware, new 440cc injectors and an eManage piggy back ECU! Bargain! You will need to get a boost gauge and a good wide band O2 sensor, fitting and tuning. All in, it would be roughly £2-3k depending on how much you do yourself.

[Hogie]

Yea, super and turbo charging are two different ways of driving a fan on the inlet side of the engine to force more air into the cylinder than if the engine was normally aspirated.

Its like with the lift at 6200rpm on the engine, although it not forced induction the amount of time the valve stay open is changed allowing more air to be sucked in to the cylinder which mean more fuel can be injected and burned meaning more energy can be released during combustion. Its all about achieving a high volumetric efficiency,getting more air into the cylinder before the valves close.

You will use more fuel if you supercharge the engine. It takes energy to run the supercharger, it puts a load on the engine, just like your air con compressor does. The more load on the engine the more fuel it will burn, also your burning more fuel during combustion because you have more air in the cylinder, but you get more power. You get nothing for free in this world.

The say the corolla compressors( that's the supercharged version) over this side of the pond are nicer car to drive everyday, more low down power. Dont have to rev them as hard to get the best from them.

thank you for the most comprehensive and easy-to-understand response I've gotten on TOC so far. thanks mate.

No prob

[celica140sport]

well ive always thought the celica looks alot faster than it is. as noone ever overtakes me lol. theres hope for the celica now lol if your rich and can be bothered with doing all that anyway.

[ae111sr]

Take a look here for some pictures of one with the Blitz kit. The work was done by the guy who did my engine transplant and I saw the kit being installed. When you blip the throttle it sounds just like a dog barking lol - used to tell him he needed a kennel for it not a garage.