Yaris Diesel - How Many Mpg?

[RunningInPleasePass]

Been talking to Steve about this over on Auris Forum.

I've had an Auris with the 1.4D4D engine for over two years and 75k miles now.

Your right about the regeneration happening about 300 miles, and as you say, you can tell it's doing it because of the smell and the drop in instantaneous MPG,also the idle speed increases to about 950rpm, it seems to take about 10 miles to complete, if you turn the engine off during it, it seems to have to wait a while then start again.

I've also found that it can seem to want to regenerate more often if your a steady driver, or if you do lots of long 60/65MPH runs, as I do, then what I do is wait until it's doing a regeneration, then drive it with plenty of revs in a lower gear then normal for a few miles, but make sure it's safe to do so, this seems to blow the DPF out and it go's back to regenerating every 300 miles or so.

By the way, when I first noticed the increased idle speed I talked to my local Toyota Garage about it and they did not know what I was talking about, so I presume it's something that not many owners have asked about.

Good article by the AA here:

http://www.theaa.com...te-filters.html

It could be the DPF needs changing, or it could be the pressure sensor that indicate a blocked filter, they have sensors before and after the filter, when the sensor before the filter is higher then the one after the filter it means the filter is blocked and needs to be regenerated, if regeneration is unsuccessful you will get a fault light, ask the Toyota Dealer for their comments in this?

[Steve_75]

Hi, thanks for your input. Sounds like its a normal thing then.

Out of interest, i tried driving a little faster today. Usually, I tend to change up as soon as I know the 'change down' light won't be on and cruise at about 65 on the motorway. Today, I was changing up a little later (so instead of changing up at 10/20/30/40/60 mph, I changed at 15/25/35/45/65) and generally accelerated more briskly than usual. Also cruised between 70-75. Paid no attention to driving economically. Did about 110 miles in all on trips up towards Leicester, to Leamington and to Rugby, good mix of A roads, motorway and some town driving. When I left, the average mpg was on 63.3 (having done probably 200 odd miles so far on the tank. Ended up with it on 63.4 which surprised me. I thought it would have dropped off down by 1 or 2 mpg. Even had windows open/air con on all the time.

Think I'll be driving like this all the time from now on! Wait and see if it delays the next regen now.

[Stuart303]

Thanks K,

Yep, done all those things, give it plenty of revs, my driving is generally <70 mph so perhaps I could expect more regens.

But, It used to be every 300 - 350 miles, once (possibly twice) per tank of fuel.

Since the service in November, the frequency has increased, sometimes as little as 70 miles between regens, AND it has developed this knack of adding diesel to the sump.

I mentioned the sensors to the dealers and they dismissed the idea. I also suggested the DPF may be knackered, that met the same response. No faults lights ever lit up, ergo no problems.

They furnished me with an extra page from the manual regarding the DPF filter blocked light, I will have to scan it in & post it at some point. It was not part of the manual that came with the car - it was a later publication.

I tried the Esso super diesel for the last fill, and the mpg has significantly improved, mpg calculation a lot better than the computer display too. That may be the software upgrade. Still doing 4 regens per tank though. Had the oil replaced again - waiting to hear from the service manager.

More news as I get it.

[Steve_75]

Stuart303 it really does sound like yours has something amiss. I'd maybe give the dealer one more attempt and then involve Toyota UK to see if that will move things along. I can't imagine having diesel added to the engine oil will be doing the engine any good, either from a lubrication or a build up in engine oil pressure.

Hope you get it sorted.

[Toyotisti]

Hello!

Same kind of problems here... Oil level incresing, and regeneration is very often.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/148559-auris-14-d4d-increasing-oil-level/

I found this video:

http://www.firstpost...jTzc-181-1.html

And bulletin: TSB EG-0017T-0411

I noticed this problem yesterday, but I was informed this problems from other drivers. I have to call local dealer and ask do they have any ideas, and how much it will cost to me to get car ok again.

[Steve_75]

Ok, an update...

Half way through my last tank, I changed my driving style as I mentioned above, basically changing up later, running a few mph faster on the motorway etc.

I just had another regen today. But it had gone 470 miles since the last one. A definite improvement on the usual 350. And it only happened after probably about 30 miles of only town driving. It also seemed to last slightly less time (although I didn't measure how long so I could be wrong on this).

Economy wise, I seem to be doing pretty much as good mpg as usual, averaging 62.6mpg over the last tank and similar so far on this tank.

Much more fun too. Have felt the engine loosen up a bit over the last few hundred miles so that's adding to the fun as well.

[Celica 190]

Update,

Post my previous blog.....

"Hi Stuart,

Wowza you seem to be experiencing some issues there, when comparing it to my own situation:

I'm currently still doing 550 (or just over) miles per week - 95% motorway. This is a tank of fuel (Sometimes to 0 on the trip!), mpg isn't as great as in summer weather (Ordinarily 75mpg, best 78.9 on the same trip)), but this week I brimmed the tank with 36l of diesel and on a random cold day this week on way to work - 55 miles, the temp was 3 degrees, and I still managed to get 71mpg, average speed say 65mph, using only up to 5th gear and just driving normally through the gears.
The clock has just clicked over 23K in 11 or so months. and it's been serviced twice with no adverse affects.
Still every week the mpg will do some kind of self-calibrating option reducing mpg to around 30-40 mpg for 10 minutes then normal service is resumed for another week. I questioned this at the dealer on my last service and the said that this was usual and a self checking/calibrating function at that.
The worst case of fuel performance I have experienced was only getting 510 miles to a tank, but this is still well above what you've been experiencing. City driving will certainly drive down the mpg though! But no guzzling issues have been experienced."

Things have certainly changed as of today....

Still getting 550+ miles per week [up to now as of today things may change...?], currently on 39,200 miles, 12 plate Yaris, daily mpg steady 75 ish also [up to now as of today things may change...?], but the self recalibrating now occurs around every 2 days and can now last up to 20 mins reducing the mpg right down across this time.

But this morning upon cranking the amber service spanner commenced flashing, seemed to run ok, but switched off anyway, restarted just to check, and same problem. Let her cool down, dipped my oil and she is around 1" (yes 30mm) above the max mark and bear in mind this is after doing around 6k since the last service, there is a problem here, booked in with Toyota in the morning, will keep you posted.

Doing some research found this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4qwFE8jTzc&feature=c4-overview&list=UUivpUTUxoYahQf5Ck61G3WA

Re oil excessive consumption & increase seems to relate to Toyota Technical Service Bulletin 1ND-TSB? / TSB EG-0017T-0411?

Seems pretty comprehensive.

[Celica 190]

UPDATE.............

Update,

Post my previous blog.....

"Hi Stuart,

Wowza you seem to be experiencing some issues there, when comparing it to my own situation:

I'm currently still doing 550 (or just over) miles per week - 95% motorway. This is a tank of fuel (Sometimes to 0 on the trip!), mpg isn't as great as in summer weather (Ordinarily 75mpg, best 78.9 on the same trip)), but this week I brimmed the tank with 36l of diesel and on a random cold day this week on way to work - 55 miles, the temp was 3 degrees, and I still managed to get 71mpg, average speed say 65mph, using only up to 5th gear and just driving normally through the gears.
The clock has just clicked over 23K in 11 or so months. and it's been serviced twice with no adverse affects.
Still every week the mpg will do some kind of self-calibrating option reducing mpg to around 30-40 mpg for 10 minutes then normal service is resumed for another week. I questioned this at the dealer on my last service and the said that this was usual and a self checking/calibrating function at that.
The worst case of fuel performance I have experienced was only getting 510 miles to a tank, but this is still well above what you've been experiencing. City driving will certainly drive down the mpg though! But no guzzling issues have been experienced."

Things have certainly changed as of today....

Still getting 550+ miles per week [up to now as of today things may change...?], currently on 39,200 miles, 12 plate Yaris, daily mpg steady 75 ish also [up to now as of today things may change...?], but the self recalibrating now occurs around every 2 days and can now last up to 20 mins reducing the mpg right down across this time.

But this morning upon cranking the amber service spanner commenced flashing, seemed to run ok, but switched off anyway, restarted just to check, and same problem. Let her cool down, dipped my oil and she is around 1" (yes 30mm) above the max mark and bear in mind this is after doing around 6k since the last service, there is a problem here, booked in with Toyota in the morning, will keep you posted.

Doing some research found this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4qwFE8jTzc&feature=c4-overview&list=UUivpUTUxoYahQf5Ck61G3WA

Re oil excessive consumption & increase seems to relate to Toyota Technical Service Bulletin 1ND-TSB? / TSB EG-0017T-0411?

Seems pretty comprehensive.

Went to Toyota this morning, they dropped the oil & replenished to get me back on the road today as they had no courtesy cars available today, booked in next week, for a week for further investigation, they acknowledged there was a TSB so watch this space.......

[Stuart303]

Hi Mike,

Just to recap here, because I emailed your u-tube link to my local Toyota dealer’s specialist, hoping he will read this too!

Mine has been accumulating diesel oil in the sump consistently, possibly since brand new, certainly following its first service.. Average consumption has been around around the 68mpg mark, never got near 75mpg, even when doing entirely motorway driving.

From new, this car has not got anywhere near to Toyotas claims for its performance.

The major problems started, or became apparent, about 12 months ago, straight after its first service. DPF regenerations increasing in frequency and duration, extra oil in the sump, service "spanner" light flashing and after the first service, fuel economy down 15%.

After many visits, forced regenerations, oil changes, ECU upgrades, it was slightly improved, although the regenerations would occur anytime, with intervals between 5 and 180 miles (average about 120 miles), a long way from the 350 miles between regenerations up UNTIL the first service.

Anyway, about 4 or 5 weeks ago, the “spanner” light came on again, and I returned to the dealership (the oil level had increased again too), and as it was near to the service interval 19500ish miles, they said it would be better to wait until it was in for service to check it over.

They serviced it last week. Since then the fuel economy has been reduced to 62 mpg! On a trip to Surrey on the weekend 350 miles; economy 62mpg. This Included five (5) regenerations, one every 70 miles!!!!!!!!

I am going to call them again tomorrow; this car is now officially a disaster area. I will need a large amount of convincing to EVER buy a Toyota again!

[Steve_75]

Mine's due for its first service in the next few weeks. Up over 9,000 miles now and noticed the flashing spanner on the dash after start up. Checked in the handbook and it says that the spanner starts flashing when you reach approx 9,000 miles from the last oil change and stays on at 9,300 miles.

Still getting the regen every 350 miles or so. Economy still averaging 60-65. I'll mention the regular regens to them when I book it in and the TSB. In my mind it should only ever regen if you've just been doing loads of short runs. This is how it worked on my previous Verso 2.0D and in 14,000 miles, only did a regen after it had only done short runs over the Christmas period. The drop in economy while it does the regen is annoying but the smell from it if you're stuck in traffic is horrible.

I'll certainly be making it clear I'm not happy with this.

Only problem is that for them to see the regen happen, they might need to use over 1/2 a tank of fuel in order to get to the regen so I can see the answer being 'no codes recorded so nothing wrong with it'. Just hope that following my service, the regens don't start increasing in regularity.

[Darren_79]

Hi

Was looking at this forum and the various topics on mpg / dpf issues / oil etc before I took the plunge and bought my new Yaris diesel....just thought I'd share my experiences so far....

Car bought 3rd Feb 2014 - brand new Yaris D4-D Icon Plus with Touch & Go from HW Moon Wigan.

10th Feb - oil spanner light came on the dash - 230 miles on the clock. Took it in to Vantage Toyota Preston (near work!), they had a very quick look, just reset the light and said it would be fine.

14th Feb - oil spanner light comes back on the dash - 410 miles on the clock. Took it back in to HW Moon Wigan to check out a vibration which had started at very low revs (issue resolved - was a loose fitting bracket). They then took a good hour and half trying to figure out why the oil spanner light had been coming on (good on them for having a good proper look!) - at one point they were on the phone to Toyota Europe (apparently!) to see if there was any issue. In the end they said that it seems to have been overfilled with oil so they drained and re-filled to what they said would be the correct level.

Oil spanner light no longer coming on.

In terms of DPF regeneration:

Seems to be happening for me pretty much every 500 miles. At which point the mpg read out on the display drop to anywhere between 25mpg and 40mpg depending on where I happen to be driving at the time. The smell which others have mentioned is also noticeable. At this point, tick over revs increase to 1000rpm as opposed to standard 800rpm and it does sound a little coubik.

In terms of mpg:

Resetting every week and I'm getting between 58.6mpg and 60mpg at the moment according to the trip read out.

Currently I'm at just over 3200 miles in the 11 weeks I've had the car.

I should add that my standard drive to work is roughly 3 miles local town roads, followed by about 17 miles motorway, followed by about 5 miles of A-roads through usually busy rush hour traffic. So about 50 miles per day purely to the office (steady 70mph on the m/way in 6th gear cruise control!), but usually some other bits and pieces thrown in during the working day as I go between different offices in town (6 mile round trip in that case).

So overall, not too bad at the moment....would like a little more mpg out of car to be honest, but I suppose it has to loosen up first, the weather hasn't been particularly great during these first 11 weeks and obviously some of the rush hour traffic each morning isn't going to help. Hopefully get more out of it as the weeks and miles on the clock progress....certainly better than my 06-plate 1.4 petrol Clio which I had since new and was returning around 45mpg for the same journey.

As I say, just my addition to the discussion - probably doesn't add anything to those with the issues though - hope they've been resolved.

All the best

Darren

[FROSTYBALLS]

Few people will get near to the EU consumption figures for the majority of cars - mainly due to the fact that the consumption tests are laboratory based and bear little relation to the real world.

Have a look at the following extract from a Which? article earlier this year: http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/155252-eu-fuel-consumption-tests/

Two more factors will affect the fuel consumption:

1) any car will need at least four thousand miles or so under its belt before getting near to its best mpg

2) winter months always have a detrimental effect on consumption.

The Honest John website has a section called 'Real mpg', where owners can record the consumption they are achieving, and which gives a more realistic snapshot of the consumption vehicles are getting.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/yaris-and-yaris-hybrid-2011/14-d-4d

[Madasafish]

My experience of mainly urban/A road driving - virtually no motorways for 95% of miles, but no journeys under 2 miles (I walk!) - based on 15 years of recorded usage ## versus EU figures for a range of cars is:

In summer I average the EC urban figures +7 to 10%

In winter I average the EC urban figures except on snow and ice where it is often urban -10% - depends on how long I am in queues........waiting to move..:-(

I NEVER average the EC extra urban figures - because I do so little motorway driving.(When I do travel on motorways, that travel is EU extra urban -10 to 15%).

SO when I look for a new car, the EC urban figures are the ones I look at.

You only need to look at the abysmal figures for Ford's Eco Boost engine in the real world- 44mpg vs 67mpg http://tinyurl.com/kw9a79b

to see why I ignore extra urban figures when doing comparisons.

Most motoring car reviews are based on EU figures and therefore a pile of steaming ordure - but that I have found is typical of the low standard of many motoring journalists..(I write as a cynic having seen journalists ignoring the appalling record of many manufacturers in reliability and after care..How anyone could review a Peugeot in the mid 2000s and not comment on reliability - or a Renault diesel from the same period- beats me)

## miles and usage in liters recorded at each fillup. Fuelly.com makes it easier than manual calculations or a spreadsheet.

[greg12]

Mpg figures are done by the manufacturer in TEST conditions,inside, on a rolling road,they take the alternator off as well as the brakes,and tape up all the gaps on the car,its a scam,what ever the official MPG is stated minus 20% off that and you may get a more accurate reading!!

[FROSTYBALLS]

It is the EU testing regime which dictates how the fuel consumption figures are obtained that is the problem. The manufacturers have no choice but to test their vehicles in the way the legislation requires, and then use these consumption figures in any advertising, brochures, etc.

[pete129]

My 2004 yaris D has great MPG. My daily commute on mainly B roads between 50-60 gives me a average if 68 MPG this is averaged over 10,000 miles. Loads of power when needed. Couldn't re commend more....

Sent from my iPhone using Toyota OC

[Cyker]

It should be pretty damned easy to get at least mid-50's mpg on a Yaris D4D, even if you are driving around city or being a bit heavy footed! (As long as you're not doing short journeys! Short journeys and the cold are the D4D's achilles heel!)

It'll hit the low 60's easily too on motorway runs; Getting more requires some tweaking to driving technique - Basic hypermiling techniques, sticking to the low 60mph's, will get you there easy.
If you want into the 70+-mpg area, higher PSI or LRR in the tyres, avoiding overtaking as much as possible and keeping the engine at ~2000rpm or less are key. It's possible to get even higher but little things start to make a big difference, even temperature and wind direction! So much luck is required...! The car can do it, but can the driver...

music can make a difference too; Classic FM seems to give me better mpg than, say, Dragonforce and Ensiferum... (But those give great feelings on Bright sunny day distance cruises! )

I think it is a bit trickier in the newer Yarisuses as they have all this emissions control crap which works against getting higher mpgs, plus larger rims, bigger, heavier etc., but the torque advantage over the petrol ones should still allow lower RPMs when doing distance cruising, which is where it gets the highest mpgs :)

[Stuart303]

Thanks for the reply Cyker & Pete129.

The issue with my Yaris is one of mechanical or possibly electronic nature.

1. Regen cycles used to occur every 300 -350 miles.

2. After the first service, the sump level kept increasing, diesel oil finding its way in to the sump.

3. After the first service, the regen cycle frequency increased, average about 150 miles between them now.

4. I was advised by the dealer, when a regen occurs, find some open road & drive keeping revs to 2500 for 15 minutes. 5th gear 2500 revs, about 70 mph, for 15 mins 15 miles(or thereabouts).This is 15 miles that I have to do every 150 miles, ergo increasing my mileage by 10%, for the cars benefit - not mine! Also the economy is more like 20 - 30 mpg while this is going on - so, extra miles at horrendous economy figure, has a large effect on the whole tanks economy - 3 times per tank of fuel!

It is going back to the dealers on the 14th, hopefully they can trace the problem.

[Cyker]

Yeah, the DPF is one of the worst things to happen to a diesel car; It seems once they start blocking up it's hard to get it to burn off properly, although once you do you shouldn't have to do it so regularly.

The advice on DPFs is often wrong or misleading - You DO NOT have to wait until a regen cycle appears to try and burn it off.

If the engine is getting a good workout (Heavy loaded and up a hill, long motorway or a fast twisty A-road), the exhaust should get hot enough to burn off the soot on its own, even without fuel being squirted into the exhaust.

When fuel is being squirted in, it is to try and raise the temperature of the exhaust to trigger the burn off, but at idle or low load that isn't enough to trigger a proper burn anyway and I swear these things are squirting in too much fuel and are actually making the problem worse.

I do wonder if it is possible to replace the regenerating DPF with a replaceable one?

My uncle reckons that In Hong Kong, all the cars have replaceable filters as it's physically impossible to get a diesel car up to any speed for a long enough time over there so a regenerating DPF just wouldn't work.

One thing I reckon you should try, is not using the 6th gear - IIRC, it runs the engine at too low RPM so the motorway runs won't get the engine hot enough. It'll use more fuel, but running it to 2500rpm in 5th with the turbo spun up nicely will get everything good and hot and hopefully start burning off some soot! (It's also a hoot for overtaking compared to 6th )

Don't be afraid to rev up the D4D - It's an unholy union of a diesel engine with the japanese obsession with high RPM and likes to be revved up so it can turbo :D

(Or trade it in and get a Mk1 D4D )

[nickyboy]

I average between 59 and 62mpg, and I don't hang about

[Stuart303]

BIG
NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally, after much phoning and complaining to Toyota Customer Services/Toyota Technical & my local dealership - they think they have found the cause of my problem,
and are allegedly fixing it today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has only taken 16 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To Recap:-

DPF regenerating an average every 150 miles (instead of 3 to 4 HUNDRED)

Sump level INCREASING, this is DIESEL fuel getting into the sump

SPANNER service light continually flashing

The fault was traced when they found an imbalance between the input and output pressure on the DPF. These pressures should (so they said) be close, on mine the exit

pressure was hugely reduced. Ergo, the DPF is inundated with fuel it can't burn, and it finds it way back to the sump. Also, because of this the regen NEVER fully successful and doesn’t fully clean out the DPF. Thus causing and increase in frequency of regenerations.

The spanner light is driven by a sensor, which by now is saturated with diesel - and will ALWAY report oil degradation. This sensor is apparently being replaced as part
of the repair.

To cure this problem, they are replacing the DPF, and have been doing so for the last 3 days. This is, I am told, a very expensive repair.

I have just contacted the dealership, and been told the car is ready!!!!!!!

It remains to be seen if this repair actually fixes the problem. Only time and driving and comparing performance will tell.

More later, after I have had time to see if there is a change in the cars performance.

[Stuart303]

Hello all,

I hesitate to say its fixed, but there has been a huge improvement in the cars performance since they changed the DPF.

The car seems to have more power, and the economy is better than it has ever been since new.

Also had 2 regens since the change, one after 402 miles (as best as I can work out as it included the spell in the hands of the dealership), the next after 493!!! HUGELY improved from the 120 mile intervals I was seeing.

Hopefully after 16 months of torture at the hands of Toyota and their dealership, the problem is fixed.

Again, hopefully the last 16 months with diesel fuel washing about in the sump hasn't caused any long term problems!

[Stuart303]

I'm now on my 5 th tank of fuel since the DPF & oil degradation sensor was chaged.

General MPG has improved by close to 10%, getting 560 ish per tank, computer average is around 70 mpg (this is I think pessimistic, calculation seem to show more like 72).

Most importantly the interval between DPF regens has changed dramatically. When I stated to complain, the frequency had increased to around 200 miles between events , from the original (I thought) 350.

Now, the first regen interval was about 400 miles, then 493; 498; 450. On the current tank, I have passed the 400 mile mark since the last on.

The whole problem, DPF and oil in the sump seems to have been cured - but it took some finding, initially having difficulty getting the dealership to believe I had a real problem!

Last week, I was told they had another car the same age with the same problem! At least the * may know where to look!

Hope this helps someone else!

[Catlover]

I have a 59 plate 6 gear yaris 1.4D. How do I tell if it is fitted with a DPF? What do I look for?

Seems such a pain I hope I dont have one.

Not had any spanner lights coming on or anything like that, and have done 2000 miles in 2 months, doing an average of 62mpg at average speed of 29.7 mph.

Still very pleased but getting worried with all these weird faults that may occur.

[Stuart303]

Dear All,

Well, after 15 months of relatively good behaviour, the regen cycle frequency has just increased from 500-milee cycles after the DPF replacement, now its down to 350-mile cycles. No warming of course, and just as well I have been keeping note of what's been happening.

Took it back to the dealership, and was told it's fine, saturation at 42%, 20 miles after a regen.

I have just got hold of the PA to Toyota GB Managing Director, and emailed her my complaint, and chronology of the catastrophe that has been owning this car.