Questions To Flummox You?

[fuel miser]

Greetings all, I've done my research for many weeks now, and I'm about to take the plunge and buy a Prius (T4 or T Spirit as I want cruise control and the better sound system), either an 06/56/07 or 57 model. Here are 3 questions that I guess might keep you quiet, but please impress me with your knowledge of this car and prove me wrong!

1. The boot volume is quoted at 408 litres, but why, unlike other manufacturers, do Toyota not quote a total carrying capacity with the seats down? I'd be very interested to know what the figure is, I'm going to take a guess, considering the overall dimensions and slightly smaller boot than similar sized cars due to the space taken by the Battery pack, that it still might be a quite respectable 1350 litres or so. Can anyone help?

2. A bit more technical with this one. I am interested to know what the highest overall gearing of the car is, another figure that I can easily find with with many others but can't for the Prius. The car I have just sold was a BMW 525d, and gave 33mph per 1000 revs, so cruising in 5th at an indicated 70mph my rev counter would show 2100rpm. Obviously Toyota have decided a rev counter to be superfluous on the Prius, probably since you can't really control the revs of a CVT gearbox anyway (as you can with a manual or conventional auto), so can anyone hazard a guess at what revs a Prius is doing when cruising at a constant 70mph? I've driven diesels for many years for their economy and long legged cruising ability, I'm just wondering how the Prius will compare in this respect.

3. Final question. The anomaly with the insurace group ratings for the Prius. T3 and T4 are group 7, why then, is the T Spirit ranked at group 8? The T Sprirt engine has the same power output and performance as the others, the only difference I can see (over the T4) is that it comes with built in sat-nav and bluetooth phone connection (which presumably can't be stolen from the car). If anything, these two gadgets should increase the general safety of the car, so why should it be considered a higher insurance risk? This wouldn't deter me from buying a T Spirit as it's not going to make a vast difference to my premium, but I'm just curious as to why this is.

Well good luck with them, if I can think of any more to bamboozle you with then I'll post some more! Great forum, by the way.

[Red Yaris 54]

Greetings all, I've done my research for many weeks now, and I'm about to take the plunge and buy a Prius (T4 or T Spirit as I want cruise control and the better sound system), either an 06/56/07 or 57 model. Here are 3 questions that I guess might keep you quiet, but please impress me with your knowledge of this car and prove me wrong!

1. The boot volume is quoted at 408 litres, but why, unlike other manufacturers, do Toyota not quote a total carrying capacity with the seats down? I'd be very interested to know what the figure is, I'm going to take a guess, considering the overall dimensions and slightly smaller boot than similar sized cars due to the space taken by the battery pack, that it still might be a quite respectable 1350 litres or so. Can anyone help?

2. A bit more technical with this one. I am interested to know what the highest overall gearing of the car is, another figure that I can easily find with with many others but can't for the Prius. The car I have just sold was a BMW 525d, and gave 33mph per 1000 revs, so cruising in 5th at an indicated 70mph my rev counter would show 2100rpm. Obviously Toyota have decided a rev counter to be superfluous on the Prius, probably since you can't really control the revs of a CVT gearbox anyway (as you can with a manual or conventional auto), so can anyone hazard a guess at what revs a Prius is doing when cruising at a constant 70mph? I've driven diesels for many years for their economy and long legged cruising ability, I'm just wondering how the Prius will compare in this respect.

3. Final question. The anomaly with the insurace group ratings for the Prius. T3 and T4 are group 7, why then, is the T Spirit ranked at group 8? The T Sprirt engine has the same power output and performance as the others, the only difference I can see (over the T4) is that it comes with built in sat-nav and Bluetooth phone connection (which presumably can't be stolen from the car). If anything, these two gadgets should increase the general safety of the car, so why should it be considered a higher insurance risk? This wouldn't deter me from buying a T Spirit as it's not going to make a vast difference to my premium, but I'm just curious as to why this is.

Well good luck with them, if I can think of any more to bamboozle you with then I'll post some more! Great forum, by the way.

Welcome to TOC

I can answer the third question.

The T3 & T4 are less expensive to buy than the T Spirit (with all the extra bells and whistles on)

The original price of the T Spirit raises the insurance group by 1 as in the event of a total loss the T Spirit will cost the insurance company more to replace.........................All rather logical really.

Not so sure about the other two questions, but I am sure someone will be along with answers for you

[fuel miser]

Greetings all, I've done my research for many weeks now, and I'm about to take the plunge and buy a Prius (T4 or T Spirit as I want cruise control and the better sound system), either an 06/56/07 or 57 model. Here are 3 questions that I guess might keep you quiet, but please impress me with your knowledge of this car and prove me wrong!

1. The boot volume is quoted at 408 litres, but why, unlike other manufacturers, do Toyota not quote a total carrying capacity with the seats down? I'd be very interested to know what the figure is, I'm going to take a guess, considering the overall dimensions and slightly smaller boot than similar sized cars due to the space taken by the battery pack, that it still might be a quite respectable 1350 litres or so. Can anyone help?

2. A bit more technical with this one. I am interested to know what the highest overall gearing of the car is, another figure that I can easily find with with many others but can't for the Prius. The car I have just sold was a BMW 525d, and gave 33mph per 1000 revs, so cruising in 5th at an indicated 70mph my rev counter would show 2100rpm. Obviously Toyota have decided a rev counter to be superfluous on the Prius, probably since you can't really control the revs of a CVT gearbox anyway (as you can with a manual or conventional auto), so can anyone hazard a guess at what revs a Prius is doing when cruising at a constant 70mph? I've driven diesels for many years for their economy and long legged cruising ability, I'm just wondering how the Prius will compare in this respect.

3. Final question. The anomaly with the insurace group ratings for the Prius. T3 and T4 are group 7, why then, is the T Spirit ranked at group 8? The T Sprirt engine has the same power output and performance as the others, the only difference I can see (over the T4) is that it comes with built in sat-nav and Bluetooth phone connection (which presumably can't be stolen from the car). If anything, these two gadgets should increase the general safety of the car, so why should it be considered a higher insurance risk? This wouldn't deter me from buying a T Spirit as it's not going to make a vast difference to my premium, but I'm just curious as to why this is.

Well good luck with them, if I can think of any more to bamboozle you with then I'll post some more! Great forum, by the way.

Welcome to TOC

I can answer the third question.

The T3 & T4 are less expensive to buy than the T Spirit (with all the extra bells and whistles on)

The original price of the T Spirit raises the insurance group by 1 as in the event of a total loss the T Spirit will cost the insurance company more to replace.........................All rather logical really.

Not so sure about the other two questions, but I am sure someone will be along with answers for you

Thanks for the welcome and reply Red Yaris. I've obviously stymied everyone with the other two! With regard to your answer, you might be right, but I'm not entirely convinced. Firstly let me say that at group 8 the Prius T Spirit rating is not unreasonable anyway, considering the value of the car. I think the rating probably reflects the performance of the car, plus the type of people who are likely to drive them. It's just that "all the extra bells and whistles" as you state, unless I'm mistaken, amount to a Prius T Spirit only providing sat-nav and bluetooth phone compatibility, for which Toyota charge a £2100 premium over a T4 when new. This difference is immediately halved when the car is secondhand, having studied carefully on-line valuations of what I should pay for a Prius over a few months old, I'd have to fork out an exra £1000 to have a T Spirit model instead of a T4 in identical condition and with similar mileage. The sat-nav and bluetooth are surely driver safety aids, and not that I would of course, but it seems odd to me that I could be driving a T4 in an unfamiliar city, road atlas on my knees, phone in my hand clamped to my ear whilst I obtain directions from my client as to how I get to him, and at the same time be getting a discount on my insurance policy for that very situation! I've studied various lists of car insurance ratings, I can see an increase if the engine puts out more power, or, if it does not, has external additions like alloy wheels/body kits, which carry an increased theft risk. The built-in sat-nav and bluetooth compatibility on their own are unlikely to get nicked, and the wheels on the Prius range are all the same. I thought that as the cost of a new T Sprit is £20,682 maybe the fact that it is over £20,000 puts it at a higher insurance rate. But here are a list of comparably priced cars..........

Audi A3 1.4T FSI £16,450 - £20,350. 8 x model range, all insurance group 11

BMW 116i £16,185 - £20,325. 7 x model range, all insurance group 10

Volvo V50 2.0D £19,170 - £21,170. 3 x model range, all insurance group 10

The top models in these ranges all have various additional bells and whistles, all are over £20,000 but all carry the same insurance rating as the bottom model in the range. As I stated, your answer might be correct, but not very logical in my opinion.

[Parts-King]

No idea about Q1 & 2, you need to get out more :D:

Q3. Insurance is all about risk. The insurance companies must see a higher "Risk" for the T Spirit, for whatever reason, maybe it's the higher spec, but you are dealing with insurance companies here and while everything should be logical, it often isnt!

Kingo

[hertsnminds]

Think you will find the answer to question 2 in these articles

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/h...sions.htm#Pruis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_...le_transmission

http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/toyota...ansmission-info

I think what they are saying is the car is always trying to keep the ratio equal to one, as engine revs and car speed are not related in the way they are with conventional cogs.

[Red Yaris 54]

Try here also:

http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/power_split_device.html

place your cursor over the "Control Panel" area for more information

[fuel miser]

Try here also:

http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/power_split_device.html

place your cursor over the "Control Panel" area for more information

Thanks for the links Red Yaris, and hertsnminds too. Couldn't see the figure I was looking for, but interesting reading nonetheless. Also just read recently about the Prius petrol engine operating on the 'Atkinson', cycle as opposed to the conventional 'Otto' cycle (if Parts-King thinks I need to get out more, he ain't seen nothing yet!) It seems this principle is similar to a rotary engine, but with much greater efficiency. This is achieved at the expense of power at the bottom end of the rev range, hence it has to work in conjunction with an electric motor.

However, having just heard the news, I have a question of a much more urgent nature. Mayor Boris has, as expected, just scrapped proposed plans to increase the London congestion charge to £25 on the highest

polluting vehicles (Cayenne owners will currently be popping corks). However, what was totally unexpected, was that he has scrapped plans, also proposed originally by Ken, to exempt vehicles with less than 120g CO2 (come back Ken, we forgive you!). This will certainly affect the Aygo and the Yaris 1.4D, but will it also affect the Prius, me being about to buy one, possibly this week?! I can't get this confirmed anywhere, not even on the TFL (Transport for London) site. Does anybody know?

[Red Yaris 54]

Sadly for Aygo and Diesel Yaris owners the above is true:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7494495.stm

[fuel miser]

Sadly for Aygo and Diesel Yaris owners the above is true:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7494495.stm

I've just heard on the local news that, quote, "Vehicles with electric motors remain exempt." The report didn't mention anything about hybrids, so I'm assuming that the Prius remains exempt from the charge, as it always has been. Damn! I bet the Prius I'm about to buy has gone up a grand already! Actually, I feel very sorry for people who have recently bought small petrol and diesel cars in anticipation of this, as many apparently did.

[Red Yaris 54]

Sadly for Aygo and Diesel Yaris owners the above is true:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7494495.stm

I've just heard on the local news that, quote, "Vehicles with electric motors remain exempt." The report didn't mention anything about hybrids, so I'm assuming that the Prius remains exempt from the charge, as it always has been. Damn! I bet the Prius I'm about to buy has gone up a grand already! Actually, I feel very sorry for people who have recently bought small petrol and diesel cars in anticipation of this, as many apparently did.

Sadly, I think that the Prius will not escape the congestion charges under Boris. Only vehicles with electric motorswill be exempt and not petrol electric hybrids such as the Prius.

Toyota will be gutted by this announcement as they had based their sales / advertising on the exemption :(

[fuel miser]

Sadly for Aygo and Diesel Yaris owners the above is true:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7494495.stm

I've just heard on the local news that, quote, "Vehicles with electric motors remain exempt." The report didn't mention anything about hybrids, so I'm assuming that the Prius remains exempt from the charge, as it always has been. Damn! I bet the Prius I'm about to buy has gone up a grand already! Actually, I feel very sorry for people who have recently bought small petrol and diesel cars in anticipation of this, as many apparently did.

Sadly, I think that the Prius will not escape the congestion charges under Boris. Only vehicles with electric motorswill be exempt and not petrol electric hybrids such as the Prius.

Toyota will be gutted by this announcement as they had based their sales / advertising on the exemption :(

Have you heard or seen confirmation of that anywhere? I'm very much hoping that you're wrong. I would have thought if it were the case, they would have mentioned it on the BBC London news item I watched. Thousands of people who have bought Prius's should rightly be revolting about it if it were the case. The news item had interviews with people who've just bought Mini D's and such like, but no mention of the Prius. I hoped therefore that no news is good news and the Prius remains exempt, or it'll certainly scupper my plans.

[Red Yaris 54]

Sadly for Aygo and Diesel Yaris owners the above is true:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7494495.stm

I've just heard on the local news that, quote, "Vehicles with electric motors remain exempt." The report didn't mention anything about hybrids, so I'm assuming that the Prius remains exempt from the charge, as it always has been. Damn! I bet the Prius I'm about to buy has gone up a grand already! Actually, I feel very sorry for people who have recently bought small petrol and diesel cars in anticipation of this, as many apparently did.

Sadly, I think that the Prius will not escape the congestion charges under Boris. Only vehicles with electric motorswill be exempt and not petrol electric hybrids such as the Prius.

Toyota will be gutted by this announcement as they had based their sales / advertising on the exemption :(

Have you heard or seen confirmation of that anywhere? I'm very much hoping that you're wrong. I would have thought if it were the case, they would have mentioned it on the BBC London news item I watched. Thousands of people who have bought Prius's should rightly be revolting about it if it were the case. The news item had interviews with people who've just bought Mini D's and such like, but no mention of the Prius. I hoped therefore that no news is good news and the Prius remains exempt, or it'll certainly scupper my plans.

Looking at TFL's website:

Paying the Congestion Charge/Who pays what/ discounts and exemtions/ Vehicles

(Sorry that I could not get a link to work)

It seems that the Prius might qualify as "Alternative fuelled vehicle".............I hope so for your sake

Good Luck

[fuel miser]

Sadly for Aygo and Diesel Yaris owners the above is true:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7494495.stm

I've just heard on the local news that, quote, "Vehicles with electric motors remain exempt." The report didn't mention anything about hybrids, so I'm assuming that the Prius remains exempt from the charge, as it always has been. Damn! I bet the Prius I'm about to buy has gone up a grand already! Actually, I feel very sorry for people who have recently bought small petrol and diesel cars in anticipation of this, as many apparently did.

Sadly, I think that the Prius will not escape the congestion charges under Boris. Only vehicles with electric motorswill be exempt and not petrol electric hybrids such as the Prius.

Toyota will be gutted by this announcement as they had based their sales / advertising on the exemption :(

Have you heard or seen confirmation of that anywhere? I'm very much hoping that you're wrong. I would have thought if it were the case, they would have mentioned it on the BBC London news item I watched. Thousands of people who have bought Prius's should rightly be revolting about it if it were the case. The news item had interviews with people who've just bought Mini D's and such like, but no mention of the Prius. I hoped therefore that no news is good news and the Prius remains exempt, or it'll certainly scupper my plans.

Looking at TFL's website:

Paying the Congestion Charge/Who pays what/ discounts and exemtions/ Vehicles

(Sorry that I could not get a link to work)

It seems that the Prius might qualify as "Alternative fuelled vehicle".............I hope so for your sake

Good Luck

Thanks, I already studied the TFL site, hardly very informative I thought. Did you see that stupid link where they recommend what car you should buy based on CO2 output? I eventually came across the Prius in the 'small family car' section, it didn't even mention that it's congestion charge free! But I think you're rght, it still escapes for the moment, but what the future holds is anybodies guess.

[Parts-King]

The Country/Government view on CO is all up the wall, whatever you call it, congestion charging is another way of stitching you up with tax. All the manufacturers are doing what they can to produce cars with lower emissions and we want another runway at Heathrow, how do those two policies match each other? If Jim Royale was commenting it would be Green..........my a :censor: e

[fuel miser]

The Country/Government view on CO is all up the wall, whatever you call it, congestion charging is another way of stitching you up with tax. All the manufacturers are doing what they can to produce cars with lower emissions and we want another runway at Heathrow, how do those two policies match each other? If Jim Royale was commenting it would be Green..........my a :censor: e

Auris?

[Chris Dance]

From all the news I have heard HYBRID vehicles such as the Prius are still only £10 a year. The Prius is NOT totally exempt you have to apply for the reduced congestion charge.

I agree congestion charges are just another way of taxing the motorist. Many have forgotten that "RED KEN" had most of the London roads under unnecessary repairs to increase congestion prior to the introduction of congestion charges.

I also remember when "Red Ken" supported the IRA.

Boris is by far the better man as time will tell.

[fuel miser]

From all the news I have heard HYBRID vehicles such as the Prius are still only £10 a year. The Prius is NOT totally exempt you have to apply for the reduced congestion charge.

I agree congestion charges are just another way of taxing the motorist. Many have forgotten that "RED KEN" had most of the London roads under unnecessary repairs to increase congestion prior to the introduction of congestion charges.

I also remember when "Red Ken" supported the IRA.

Boris is by far the better man as time will tell.

Hi Chris. The Prius currently is exempt from the congestion charge, provided that you pay the registration fee of £10, which is then valid for twelve months. This would, in theory, save £2080 in fees assuming you drove into the zone every possible working day (I haven't deducted all the Bank Holidays, which would reduce the figure slightly).

We were all expecting Boris to scrap the £25 fee for so called 'Chelsea Tractors', but I was personally very surprised and disappointed that he also chose to scrap the fee for vehicles rated at 120g per km CO2 or less. There wasn't a vast choice of vehicles in that bracket at the moment, Toyota had 2 which would have complied (apart from the Prius), there were a few choices from other manufacturers, mainly petrol engines of about 1.0 litre and a bigger choice of diesels up to 2.0 litre. I think Boris made a big mistake with this decission, it would have been nice to have at least have had a choice of a few vehicles which were free to drive into the city (apart from the registration fee). Many people have unfortunately purchased cars over recent months, which they were led to believe in the press, and numerous motoring publications for the last year or so, that they were going to be exempt. As I am currently in the process of looking for a car, had I recently spent £16,000-£18,000 on a BMW 118D, Audi 1.9 TDI, Ford Focus 1.6 ECOnetic or similar, purely on the information we were all told that they'd be C.C. free, I'd be furious with Boris. I'm no supporter of Red Ken, by the way, and you forgot to also mention his traffic light phasing scheme and his wonderful 'Bendy Bus'.

Various manufacturers have worked extremely hard and invested in complex technology to bring us a choice of the few models that were available, but the only one's celebrating today seem to be Porsche. Whether the Prius, long term, will remain C.C. exempt is a mystery at the moment, I have searched all day and still can't find the answer. But if it is, Toyota dealers are certainly in for a busy time in respect of Prius sales, and anyone currently owning a Prius, particularly in the South of the UK, has immediately had the value of their car considerably bolstered on todays announcement.

[Chris Dance]

fuel miser,

Another way of looking at it if those folk have purchsed any of the cars you have listed they will be getting savings on their fuel costs by running more economical cars.

I must admit the congestion charge is very expensive for people who have to drive in the congestion zones.

Chris.

[don21]

The Country/Government view on CO is all up the wall, whatever you call it, congestion charging is another way of stitching you up with tax. All the manufacturers are doing what they can to produce cars with lower emissions and we want another runway at Heathrow, how do those two policies match each other? If Jim Royale was commenting it would be Green..........my a :censor: e

Correct.Cars produce only 15% of the CO emissions in this country but I would love to know the percentage of Tax they contribute.Makes me laugh all this insistance about getting emissions down and global warming.Fact is politicians just love to squeeze every last penny they can out of us and anyone who thinks they are doing it for the love of the environment is kidding themselves.

China is opening a new coal fired power station on average every 5 days.Indias economic expansion continues to gather pace and what about when the African Nations finally get honest leadership and are able to take advantage of their huge natural resources.Will any of these countries worry about global warming.Oh and I almost forgot about about one of the biggest contributors of all the good old USA.5% of the world population yet consumes 25% of its resources and steadfastly refuses to sign treaty after treaty that would mean a drop in living standards.

No it is us as usual who suffer.If anyone thinks that what we are doing makes the slightest difference then they are deluding themselves.What this mad dash to save the environment is doing though is making a lot of people very rich.Oh and making all of us very poor.

[fuel miser]

The Country/Government view on CO is all up the wall, whatever you call it, congestion charging is another way of stitching you up with tax. All the manufacturers are doing what they can to produce cars with lower emissions and we want another runway at Heathrow, how do those two policies match each other? If Jim Royale was commenting it would be Green..........my a :censor: e

Correct.Cars produce only 15% of the CO emissions in this country but I would love to know the percentage of Tax they contribute.Makes me laugh all this insistance about getting emissions down and global warming.Fact is politicians just love to squeeze every last penny they can out of us and anyone who thinks they are doing it for the love of the environment is kidding themselves.

China is opening a new coal fired power station on average every 5 days.Indias economic expansion continues to gather pace and what about when the African Nations finally get honest leadership and are able to take advantage of their huge natural resources.Will any of these countries worry about global warming.Oh and I almost forgot about about one of the biggest contributors of all the good old USA.5% of the world population yet consumes 25% of its resources and steadfastly refuses to sign treaty after treaty that would mean a drop in living standards.

No it is us as usual who suffer.If anyone thinks that what we are doing makes the slightest difference then they are deluding themselves.What this mad dash to save the environment is doing though is making a lot of people very rich.Oh and making all of us very poor.

It's an interesting fact that four independant scientific research institutes (one of which is NASA) all agree that the average temperature of the planet so far this decade, is between 0.65 and 0.75 of one degree c. LESS than the average temperature during the whole of the previous century. So this 'global warming' nonsense I have never been able to swallow. Yes I agree that weather patterns are changing, we also have a fuel crisis which in itself may create a food crisis, but what car anyone drives and what impact it has on the environment as a result, I am far from convinced about. It has just been imposed on me that I sell a perfectly good car that I was very happy with, which had many years of useful life left in it, in order to buy a Prius. Good car that the Prius is, I don't think that the situation created by this government is the answer to the problem.

[liverpoolmiss]

It's an interesting fact that four independant scientific research institutes (one of which is NASA) all agree that the average temperature of the planet so far this decade, is between 0.65 and 0.75 of one degree c. LESS than the average temperature during the whole of the previous century.

Completely incorrect. It's the opposite.

The average temperature so far this decade is about 0.7 of a degree HIGHER than the average during the last century. NASA's figures show that 2005 was the warmest year ever, with 2006 and 2007 only a tiny fraction lower.

[fuel miser]

It's an interesting fact that four independant scientific research institutes (one of which is NASA) all agree that the average temperature of the planet so far this decade, is between 0.65 and 0.75 of one degree c. LESS than the average temperature during the whole of the previous century.

Completely incorrect. It's the opposite.

The average temperature so far this decade is about 0.7 of a degree HIGHER than the average during the last century. NASA's figures show that 2005 was the warmest year ever, with 2006 and 2007 only a tiny fraction lower.

Hello liverpoolmiss. I can see you're up for a debate on this. If you google 'world temperatures' , you'll come across site after site which will refute what you quote. I won't bother linking them, because I can just tell, since you've taken issue with me, that you'll only come back with links which state the opposite. A lot obviously depends on how these statistics are compiled in the first place, in what format they are presented, and of course, how one then chooses to interpret them. This 'global warming' debate all started in the mid eighties when the hole in the ozone layer was discovered. Julian Lennon even wrote a song in 1988 about it ('Salt water'). It was predicted that it would expand and expand, and we were all going to fry. Have you ever heard anything discussed about this hole of late? No. Because it was a phenomenon that simply appeared and then promptly disappeared. Furthermore, I can remember numerous newspaper headlines in the mid seventies claiming the end of the world was nigh, because some scientists were convinced we were heading for another ice age. So, within ten years, this hole appears, and the exact opposite was suddenly then being predicted. Ten years is a nanosecond in the history of this planet. I've looked at one online study of global temperatures going back over the last 425,000 years, there have been several peaks and troughs, about five extremes each of cold and warm, with average temperatures on three occasions being several degrees warmer than they are now.

However, I don't really think this forum is the place to debate all this. This is a forum for people who are interested in motoring, and, in particular, Toyota motor vehicles. And, in this particular topic, Toyota Prius hybrid vehicles, one of which I personally purchased just the other day. Apparently one of the greenest cars one could buy. So should I feel smug about that? Should I begin to get used to the thought that although, as I am, a non believer, that in owning a Prius that I now automatically go to heaven? That I share the same moral status as someone who is vegan? That my farts, from this point on, are now lavender scented? If I meet someone who informs me they have just bought a new Land Cruiser, do I treat them with disdain, and start lecturing them about the plight of the polar bear, and that, even if you could convince me your figure were true, they should acknowledge their personal responsibility for the planet temperature going up 0.7 of a degree?

The gist of my reply to don21 (look what you got me into!) was to concur that our government uses this 'global warming' issue to extract colossal tax revenues from us, you included, and that this situation does nothing to solve the supposed problem. In fact, if everyone in the UK dumped their current car and bought a Prius (as Brown/Darling etc seem to suggest we should), surely, they would simply find another way in extracting that lost revenue from us. As motorists, we are their collective cash cow, they'll always scheme more ways for us to get milked.

[JonFB]

...In fact, if everyone in the UK dumped their current car and bought a Prius, surely, they (the government) would simply find another way in extracting that lost revenue from us. As motorists, we are their collective cash cow, they'll always scheme more ways for us to get milked.

Hadn't ever thought of that possibility but it makes a very good point. And I believe you're absolutely right about the tax not really relating to the environment (and indeed about ludicrousness of building new runways etc). Seems to me it is better to "keep your head down" in this life and just get on as best you can. The politicians and government will always do things to incense us if we take too close an interest. Just live your life selflessly and try not too impact others.

Now see how philosophical we've gone. Roll on technical exchanges on widgets etc.

[fuel miser]

...In fact, if everyone in the UK dumped their current car and bought a Prius, surely, they (the government) would simply find another way in extracting that lost revenue from us. As motorists, we are their collective cash cow, they'll always scheme more ways for us to get milked.

Hadn't ever thought of that possibility but it makes a very good point. And I believe you're absolutely right about the tax not really relating to the environment (and indeed about ludicrousness of building new runways etc). Seems to me it is better to "keep your head down" in this life and just get on as best you can. The politicians and government will always do things to incense us if we take too close an interest. Just live your life selflessly and try not too impact others.

Now see how philosophical we've gone. Roll on technical exchanges on widgets etc.

Hi Jon, I fired off a reply to you on the other thread yesterday saying I wouldn't drive a T3 and then I saw you have one! To explain, the last three cars I've had all had cruise control, and it's just one of those things I can't live without. I don't mind if my car is manual or auto, built in sat nav doesn't bother me because you can buy one for £100 anyway, sound systems you could always upgrade, but if the T3 just had cruise control fitted I wouldn't have ruled one out. I do quite a lot of trips up to Cumbria and Scotland and I just hit the button at an indicated 75 (probably a genuine 68 or so) and it keeps me out of trouble. The last thing I got caught by was a sneaky camera van on a bridge over the M6 near Tebay, 6:15am, empty motorway. My points have now expired so I don't want to gather any more. Cruise is also great on those long roadwork sections where it's 50 limit for example (they're nearly all covered by those 'specs' cameras now). Again, just hit the button and you don't have to worry.

I think whether the planet temperature is 1 degree this way or that is irrelevant. Yes, we see changes in our weather patterns (looks like the second dismal summer in a row for us in the UK), but what is actually causing it? This taxation policy on large vehicles like 4x4s hits a lot of people who need those vehicles. I mentioned I travel to Cumbria, where I'm originally from. My father's side of the family are all farming people in remote fellside locations. They need to have Discovery/Shogun type vehicles to negotiate iced/snow bound/flooded country lanes, to tow trailers to get livestock, feed, machinery, parts etc. transported. They get hammered by the current price of diesel, they get fleeced again because the price of diesel in rural areas is always much higher, and now because the tax on such vehicles will be £400 in future, they'll then get hit with massive depreciation. Once they're over 5 years old and that £400 road tax (it'll keep going up every year of course!) becomes a bigger factor in running costs, vehicles that are £30k or so new will be worth very little, whilst a few years ago they were still very desirable to buy at that age, holding their value reasonably well. I admit I don't know what the solution to all this is, I just see the current proposals as being very unfair on a lot of people.